Multiple sources have reached out to THE ROCK FIGHT from the GOA Connect show happening in Kansas City this week with the news that after acquiring the brand just this past January, Yeti will be sunsetting the consumer arm of Mystery Ranch after 2025 while retaining their military business.
Colin & Justin talk about the implications of this move and then address the other big news story of the week, REI's hire of Abigail Jacobs as their new Chief Marketing Officer.
They also talk about new images of Ernest Shackleton's sunken Endurance as well as tech that is enabling big ships to stop the annual slaughter of thousands of whales.
They of course wrap up the show with their Parting Shots. Colin addresses Sunny Stroeer's AZ Trail FKT attempt and the misogyny that has followed (click here to support Sunny's effort to close the gender gap in the outdoors) while Justin shows support for some newbies who tried to haul a lot of stuff up Mt. Whitney.
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Episode Transcript
Colin True
00:00:00.680 - 00:00:44.185
Western North Carolina businesses need your financial support now more than ever.
In the aftermath of Hurricane Helene this month, Darby Communications, based in Asheville, North Carolina, is donating its ad space here on the Rock Fight to help other outdoor businesses in western North Carolina get back on their feet.
The outdoor industry is a major contributor to Western North Carolina's economy, and Darby Communications is asking people to donate to the Outdoor Business Alliance Hurricane Helene Relief Fund, which supports outdoor industry businesses in their recovery and supports their staff as they rebuild in the wake of the storm's devastation. Now is the time to help out the outdoor community, and if you have a few spare bucks, you can help build back what we lost in western North Carolina.
Head to outdoorbusinessalliance.org and click donate Today to get started.
Chris DeMakes
00:00:44.765 - 00:00:52.385
Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight.
Colin True
00:00:53.365 - 00:01:07.685
Welcome to the Rock Fight, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes a greed to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True, and joining me today, he's never been allowed to make a return at rei.
It's Justin Houseman.
Justin Housman
00:01:09.065 - 00:01:16.325
Do you think we've actually successfully. Do we hit the head? We aim for the head. Are we making head shots?
Colin True
00:01:16.625 - 00:01:23.857
We do get a little silly around here from time to time. So maybe we're. Maybe it's a little lower brow, below the belt maybe.
Justin Housman
00:01:23.921 - 00:01:24.193
Yeah.
Colin True
00:01:24.249 - 00:01:28.653
We have ideas, though. We offer ideas that are headed aimed, don't you think?
Justin Housman
00:01:28.749 - 00:01:32.829
Why would I not be allowed to make a return at rei? Colin, what are you insinuating?
Colin True
00:01:32.957 - 00:01:39.116
I think you're just not the type. I think you were on the list. You were one of the 4800. It was 4801. You were the one.
Justin Housman
00:01:39.184 - 00:01:42.477
I've had these boots for 25 years. They're just not.
Colin True
00:01:42.621 - 00:01:44.685
That seems like you. Seems like you.
Justin Housman
00:01:44.725 - 00:01:52.741
That's funny because you sewed your own patches onto these into this shirt. I know, but it just doesn't feel, you know, just isn't feeling right.
Colin True
00:01:52.893 - 00:02:00.545
Well, we are going to talk a little bit today about REI's new return policy, but before we get to that, and I don't know if you noticed in the outline. I did switch it up a little bit here. Justin, I hope you're following along.
Justin Housman
00:02:00.585 - 00:02:01.273
I did, I did.
Colin True
00:02:01.329 - 00:02:13.993
Because we're going to.
First of all, I want to ask our listeners if you would please follow and rate the Rock Fight wherever you're listening on any podcast that we're having a pretty good follower month, but we could always use more. Please, if you're not following. Just click follow. And then we also.
Justin Housman
00:02:14.049 - 00:02:16.361
We don't want to come over there. You know, like we don't.
Colin True
00:02:16.473 - 00:02:20.769
You don't want us to show up. And these two, why are these two weird, like gangly white guys standing on my doorstep?
Justin Housman
00:02:20.897 - 00:02:25.045
Two dads with big time coming will probably come over. Their energy, you don't want that.
Colin True
00:02:25.475 - 00:02:53.561
So leave a five star rating, write a review, all that stuff. And also folks, I have to ask, are you subscribed to Rock Fight's newsletter? Because if you are, I screwed up my own copy.
If you like the top notch content you get here on the Rock Fight, our weekly newsletter, News from the Front has the same kind of content that you can't get anywhere else. We only put it in the newsletter. So head to rockflight co. Click join the mailing list. And Justin, I hear that you are now also a podcast host.
Is that true?
Justin Housman
00:02:53.683 - 00:02:58.745
Yeah, I was initiated into the, into the podcast, the Podcast Clan Cult Network.
Colin True
00:02:59.085 - 00:03:00.221
Have you been able to sit since.
Justin Housman
00:03:00.253 - 00:03:08.829
Then or a lot more?
Well, yeah, I am now, but I have to use one of those donuts and there was just a lot more like blood than I expected in the, in the initiation rights.
Colin True
00:03:08.997 - 00:03:10.965
It's why a lot of pies don't last, you know?
Justin Housman
00:03:11.045 - 00:03:48.781
Yeah, yeah. And I'm just hoping that this like the branding, like the actual brand, you know, the, the pig Iron brand I got on my chest like starts.
That hurts, man. That hurts. Yeah, I'm running the show over at Gear and Beer now, so you know that podcast. Come on, folks.
If you're listening to Rock Fight, you definitely know Gear and Beer where we. What do we do? We rate gear. We rate beer. Mostly drink beer while talking about Gear.
But yeah, you know, it says here in an entirely listener driven show. It really is. Yeah, I mean it's like, what do you want to know about gear? What do you want to know about beer? You know, like that's.
We got a couple of experts right here. A couple of fine fellows that are just like you who really nothing makes.
Colin True
00:03:48.853 - 00:03:50.945
Verbally threatened you a few seconds ago.
Justin Housman
00:03:51.245 - 00:03:53.557
Well, sure, they would threaten us. Don't you think?
Colin True
00:03:53.621 - 00:03:54.197
Maybe.
Justin Housman
00:03:54.341 - 00:03:59.709
Yeah, if you want to. If you, if you were running a podcast empire and you thought there were people listening without following, you would be pissed off too.
Colin True
00:03:59.757 - 00:04:00.181
I would be.
Justin Housman
00:04:00.213 - 00:04:19.541
Not that we're pissed, but anyway, yeah, I mean, it's like a couple of guys who love beer and they love gear. Like, who wouldn't want to?
And not just guys, women, you know, that felt awkward saying that right then maybe, maybe a couple of folks just find folks who, who love suds and suds and beer are suds and gear.
Colin True
00:04:19.573 - 00:04:19.801
Ye.
Justin Housman
00:04:19.853 - 00:04:40.697
Anyway, I'm tripping over my own words, but listen to and follow and rate gear and Beer please. Okay.
And then you can email all of your feedback to us right there@myrockfightmail.com we are getting more and more of your letters every day, which is fantastic. We really get a good, a good, a good little thrill from those. Occasionally some heartfelt laughter.
Colin True
00:04:40.761 - 00:04:47.145
And if you want to inspire an episode of Gear and Beer, that's where to send your email. Until we get a Gear and beer email address set up, which I need to do.
Justin Housman
00:04:47.185 - 00:04:55.781
That's true. That's complicated. We don't know how to do that. If there's anybody out there who knows how to set up an email address, please let us know. We are old.
Just kidding.
Colin True
00:04:55.893 - 00:05:42.257
Well, Wednesdays are typically more inventor focused. Not as much industry focused, but some new pieces of news. New pieces of news.
Two pieces of news came out over the past 24 hours that we really want to address. I'm glad Justin is here to help me with this because first up, breaking news out of Grassroots Outdoor Alliance Connect.
The Grassroots Outdoor Alliance Connect is being held this week in Kansas City.
That's a twice annual trade show that brings together the best specialty outdoor retail shops in the country and is attended by the most notable outdoor brands who value the opportunity to interact with their key wholesale partners. Key wholesale partners that aren't made up by the letters R, E or I. And we do have some breaking news out of that off that show floor.
What's the cutoff for people who understand what that noise is?
Justin Housman
00:05:42.321 - 00:05:44.481
Like what age 19. Like when were you born?
Colin True
00:05:44.553 - 00:05:45.632
Yeah, is it like under 35?
Justin Housman
00:05:45.689 - 00:05:46.200
Over 35.
Colin True
00:05:46.257 - 00:05:47.737
But a 39 year old gets you.
Justin Housman
00:05:47.761 - 00:05:50.205
I bet you there's. I bet you. I bet you 30 year olds would get that.
Colin True
00:05:50.245 - 00:06:29.947
Yeah, okay, that makes sense. But so I've heard from a couple of people over the last couple of days from so a few different sources reporting this into Rock Fight HQ.
Apparently Yeti is intending to Sunset Mystery Ranch after 2025. They're going to retain Mystery Ranch's military business. This is a pretty big deal.
I mean, YETI acquired Mystery Ranch, which is a backpack brand known for its super durable and load bearing backpacks at the beginning of this year. I think they closed on either January or February, so not that long ago.
It was disclosed in the spring that they bought the brand for 36 million bucks. This move comes on the heels last week, I noticed this.
We didn't talk about here in the rock fight, but I definitely noticed it in the daily that YETI is launching a Mystery Ranch inspired set of bags next year.
Justin Housman
00:06:30.091 - 00:06:35.835
What kind of bags did the article like, show them? Are they like backpacks or just like tote bags or.
Colin True
00:06:35.915 - 00:06:58.931
It just said inspired bags as I looked at that too.
It didn't say backpacks, just said, you know, they're using what kind of what they're learning from Mystery Ranch to put into some of some new products. You know, not a lot more to report than that.
I'm sure we'll learn more than the coming days and weeks, but we just kind of want to provide our instant reaction to this news. Justin, what did you think here in about eight months later, ten months later, Mystery Ranch going bye bye?
Justin Housman
00:06:59.043 - 00:07:04.787
Well, two things. One, congratulations to us for breaking more news.
Colin True
00:07:04.891 - 00:07:05.747
Yes, that's true.
Justin Housman
00:07:05.771 - 00:07:19.759
I mean, that's pretty, pretty cool. I would like to go back and listen to our show when we talked about this because I would be blown away if we didn't.
I'm sure we both said, well, they're probably going to just start making yeti packs, right? Like, yes, I'm sure we said it'd.
Colin True
00:07:19.767 - 00:07:20.807
Be weird if we didn't.
Justin Housman
00:07:20.951 - 00:08:36.955
Yeah, it would be bad. It would be bad if we hadn't. What do you think they're going to do? Yeah. Oh, man. Like, but also, like, I guarantee. Well, I don't guarantee.
I'm thinking back and I'm kind of remembering, like, execs from YETI being like, we don't intend on changing anything. You know, I've talked to people that work for Mystery Ranch since then and they're like, yeah, they're great.
We're like, you know, like, we're definitely associated more with yeti. I remember talking to reps at Outdoor Media Summit, you know, like, we're definitely associated more with yeti.
Like, but yeah, you know, like, we're doing our own thing and everything seems, well, well, it's like, well, obviously this was the plan. This was obviously the plan. Like, you don't engage in something that a purchase this large without.
It's not like they got surprised by the numbers a year into it, you know, like, this was the plan the whole time. Which, just be honest, just be upfront.
I mean, the thing that, like, this is one of those things where, I don't know, my first thought when I read these sorts of things is like, I really fucking hate capitalism sometimes.
I mean, more often than not, you Know where it's like I get, I get all the, you know, obviously it's complicated but it's like people care about these sorts of things. You know, like people. And I realize that like we don't own it. None of us own the brands that we buy. I'm totally aware of that.
But like, you know, people really care. Like Mystery Ranch is a small niche brand that has a. Like if you have Mystery Ranch, you know, Mystery Ranch, you love Mystery.
Colin True
00:08:37.035 - 00:08:38.523
They still at that stage like where.
Justin Housman
00:08:38.579 - 00:08:39.691
You know their history.
Colin True
00:08:39.803 - 00:08:40.211
Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:08:40.283 - 00:09:24.391
You know, like the Dana Gleason like you know, wasn't was, you know, like that's where it came from. Like you, you get all, you know, all that stuff and like there's not really anything else out there like it.
So I presume, I mean YETI is obviously huge in the hunting industry.
I can only imagine that they're going to just make the same packs with YETI branding because if they don't now there's like a giant void in like the hunting pack industry. It's. It's just a, it's a bummer. I hate to say it because it's. But it's a bummer. I mean do. They could do what they want. They own it.
But you know, I don't know. I guess, I guess it just sucks that everything is so transactional in our world.
You know, it's like o, that's cool that like millions or I don't know, maybe that's being exaggerated. Tens of thousands of people really cared about this thing. But no, you know, we own it, we want to make more money. So it's gone.
Colin True
00:09:24.463 - 00:09:24.719
Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:09:24.767 - 00:09:35.207
Just like I hate to see it but I understand that's how the world works. If somebody wants to buy Rock Fight and change it to, you know, flowers.com, that's fine with me with the prices. Right. You know, so I can't.
Colin True
00:09:35.271 - 00:09:37.319
I mean it's kind of. We're all for sale, I guess.
Justin Housman
00:09:37.367 - 00:09:37.839
Yeah.
Colin True
00:09:37.967 - 00:10:05.675
Yeah. I mean it's your point of like they must have known from the get go. I imagine that's the case.
Clearly it was the military business that was the they were most attracted to. And again, there are no details on this.
I'm truly hearing from people who are on the show floor, so from multiple people who have called, texted and said this is what I was told by yeti, so take it. I assume with a little bit of a grain of salt as more details come out. But it kind of makes sense like, okay, there's a military business.
It's probably Very. Having worked in the military business during my time at Polar Tech. It's a lucrative business. It's, you know, there's, there's high upside.
Justin Housman
00:10:05.795 - 00:10:08.267
Yeah. And now you say it is. You say it is.
Colin True
00:10:08.331 - 00:10:18.575
And so now, you know, it's like, well, you're right about. They're probably make yeti backpacks that are kind of like Mystery Ranch packs. But how long before those get decontented down the line?
Justin Housman
00:10:19.685 - 00:10:20.141
Yeah.
Colin True
00:10:20.213 - 00:10:21.933
You know, like, you gotta wonder, will.
Justin Housman
00:10:21.949 - 00:10:27.317
There be like, you know, Yeti like Mr. Ranch by Yeti, like, is that what's kind of, you know, that's probably.
Colin True
00:10:27.381 - 00:10:41.065
The best case scenario, but I wouldn't imagine, I mean, because it's such a small 36 million. I mean, so they're not worth 30. They were probably not doing that in sales.
You know, usually you get a multiple when you acquire something, so it's probably still pretty small brand that people only like you or I really know about for sure.
Justin Housman
00:10:41.445 - 00:10:46.407
I would imagine that even your average person who's fairly dedicated to being outside you might not know Mystery Ranch.
Colin True
00:10:46.471 - 00:10:46.671
Right.
Justin Housman
00:10:46.703 - 00:11:16.395
Like if they're not. If they don't work in the industry, which is true. And it's not like it's. It's not like Mystery Ranch was bought by like Coleman or something where.
Where like the fit is a little bit weird. I mean, Yeti. Yeti and hunting are like pretty close bedfellows. And so. And to me, I mean, Mystery Ranch is a hunting.
It will always have been a hunting brand. Like that's that. That to me, I realize that they made packs for everybody. I have a Mystery Ranch backpack. It's great.
But to me, Mystery Ranch was catering toward the hunting almost tactically sort of community. So, like it makes all the sense of the world.
Colin True
00:11:17.165 - 00:11:37.965
Well, we'll keep an eye out. I'm sure we're going to learn a lot more in the coming weeks and months as this kind of.
As this gets a little bit more broadly communicated, we hear from more people. Like I said, not had a chance to even talk to anyone. It's been just mostly over text message. But multiple people have confirmed this with me.
So we'll keep an eye on it and we'll come back to it. All the breaking coverage from the outdoor industry is where you can find it right here on the website.
Justin Housman
00:11:37.965 - 00:11:38.661
You know where to find it?
Colin True
00:11:38.693 - 00:12:35.733
Yeah. Well, we had another piece of breaking news kind of while we're actually recording this.
So REI is announced this morning on November 12th, while we're recording this, that they have hired a new head of marketing. It's in the Wall Street Journal. REI hired Abigail Jacobs as their Chief Marketing officer.
Jacobs most recently was the VP of marketing and brand for Sephora, the cosmetics brand, and she previously spent time at Williams Sonoma. She's based in San Francisco and will be leading REI's marketing team from there. Again, this is pretty much breaking news today.
So just really our instant reactions here. I don't really typically like to comment too much on specific hires because it's like, let's see how a person does.
But my initial reaction, one reason why I think we wanted to talk about it, is just another person joining the senior team at REI from outside of the industry into a position where I think some of the challenges REI has been having lately has been around messaging. And now here comes a person from outside the industry who's going to take over that part of their brand.
Justin Housman
00:12:35.829 - 00:12:39.045
Seems crucial. Like, it seems like this is something that you can't get wrong.
Colin True
00:12:39.125 - 00:13:03.595
And this is. And by the way, this next thing is not a one meat doesn't mean she can't be successful.
But staying in San Francisco with a team in Seattle at a challenging position. Not a fan of that either. I just, you know, think there's a lot of times when that doesn't work out.
I mean, that might be a coin flip kind of thing, but that's just my kind of off the dome reaction to this. I really would have liked to have seen someone from more who really understand our space. Understands our space. But what do you think, Justin?
Justin Housman
00:13:04.015 - 00:13:54.565
My thought is like, I don't know this woman. She's. For all I know, she's a fucking badass. She's welcome to come up with rei. Like, I have no idea.
You know, I don't, like, have any negative thoughts about Sephora or West Elm or. I forget what the other brand she'd been with. William Sonoma, something William Sonoma. You know, excellent kitchen stuff.
Don't get me wrong, love me some Williams Sonoma. And like, marketing is marketing to a certain degree. Right? Like, there's. I get all that. It just. What I can't help but do.
And this is coming from someone whose, like, singular joy in life is walking into a small town or any town could be. I actually prefer it wasn't a small town. I prefer it was a giant city.
And every shop is independent and every shop has its own culture and every shop has its own story. I mean, that's. That's what I. That's. That means a huge amount to me, especially when it comes to things like enthusiast pursuits, like the outdoors.
Colin True
00:13:54.645 - 00:13:54.981
Right.
Justin Housman
00:13:55.053 - 00:14:32.707
I love rei. We love rei. I love. I want REI to succeed because I love it as. I love it as a place. I love it. I like to go into the store.
I love that there is, you know, they're fun to be in, or at least they. They have been. I don't know how much that's going to change. Like, it makes me feel like going outdoors.
I would rather that most towns had an independent outdoor shop as opposed to an rei, but, yeah, I just. It just seems. It just. I guess it doesn't even seem. It just says, okay, what. What work? What. All we care about is growth.
And, like, this person's providing growth before. That's all that matters. That's it. Yeah. That's all it says to me. Yeah.
Colin True
00:14:32.731 - 00:14:36.067
We don't know Abigail Jacobs. She's welcome to come on the show. We'd love to have her on the show.
Justin Housman
00:14:36.091 - 00:14:37.851
We're going to try to. Try to get her on.
Colin True
00:14:38.043 - 00:15:01.751
It's great. I think the. When you just.
It's when you kind of compare kind of a lot of things you're saying with, you know, the fact that a lot of the other senior roles at REI are now filled by people from, like, Amazon or Target or Walmart or. I mean, I might be getting a coup. Those wrong, but it's a lot of big box retailer.
And this is one where, on the marketing side, where it's been proven time and time again that authenticity in the outdoors is incredibly important, and it's been.
Justin Housman
00:15:01.783 - 00:15:02.823
Or was or was.
Colin True
00:15:02.879 - 00:15:14.575
Yeah, well, I mean, I still think it is. I think that's why you see, like, you know, we recently were in a specialty shop in Missoula, Montana, and that just.
That's the kind of store where you're like, if that store was in my town, I'd be there three days a week just to hang out.
Justin Housman
00:15:14.655 - 00:15:17.599
Everybody said that everybody wanted to be in that store.
Colin True
00:15:17.687 - 00:16:35.975
That's the outdoor retail experience that we all have. And now you're never going to get quite exactly that at an reo, but you could probably get pretty close.
And on the messaging side, it plays right into the next story about rei, because this is one that I had on the outline well before these breaking news stories. There was an article this past week in Gear Patrol that REI is changing their return policy. That's what we were joking about at the top of the show.
The basic return policy that REI has had since 2013 is that co op members have 365 days to make returns, and non members have 90 days to make returns.
As of November 6, as many as 4800 co op members have been banned from ever making a return due to what REI has described as abusing their return policy.
And kind of, to play it into the messaging side of it is it's not like, I'm sure someone at REI right now could show me a spreadsheet and say, here are the millions of dollars we're losing annually on returns. But I just like, is this, is this the time? I mean, when was the last time I read a positive story about rei?
And I know obviously hiring a new CMO is probably being positioned as a positive story, but it's been a lot of union busting and not a lot of, like, good times, I feel like, at rei. And now here, if you go look on Reddit, man, there's some people who are pissed off.
There's some people on there saying that they were banned after and they've spent a lot of money there in recent years and haven't made any returns. So it just kind of opens that can of worm to criticism. Like the conversations that, you know, you and I are having right now.
Justin Housman
00:16:37.155 - 00:16:46.211
I am not a business person other than, you know, obviously, like, what we're trying to do at Rock Fight, I guess counts, but, like, and I technically am self employed, so I guess I kind of am.
Colin True
00:16:46.243 - 00:16:47.715
You are. You're a business person.
Justin Housman
00:16:47.875 - 00:17:04.755
And the way I look at it is I get their REI. Like, I posted something on LinkedIn twice today. Actually, I posted about this first was just kind of a. This. What the fuck?
And someone commented like, well, Sephora is really successful and REI has been losing money. So, like, good point. This is why.
Colin True
00:17:04.795 - 00:17:04.947
Right?
Justin Housman
00:17:04.971 - 00:17:39.451
Yeah. And it's like, okay, I get that. And I kind of. And I came at it from another angle and was more like, okay, I totally understand that.
I'm not criticizing again the person or the other companies they work for. But it's like if, if, if what happens is you start. You start to sort of stumble for whatever reason, and your instinct is to.
Is to like, kind of cut out the things that made you what you were. Then what are we left with? And that's, that's, that's my question, right?
Like, if everybody who's making, calling the shots at REI is coming from outside our space, what does that mean about what REI is now and where it's going?
Colin True
00:17:39.523 - 00:17:39.755
Right?
Justin Housman
00:17:39.795 - 00:17:57.475
That's it. Right. I actually think that these return policy things are hilarious. I remember when L.L.
bean stopped their lifetime return policy, and it's Like, I think that a lifetime return policy makes a lot of sense. Forty years ago or 50 years ago, when the world was a wildly different place and the Internet didn't exist, no.
Colin True
00:17:57.475 - 00:18:00.627
One would ever return this for nefarious purposes, right?
Justin Housman
00:18:00.691 - 00:18:08.907
Like, you bought it and you traveled away and like, when am I going to be in Maine again? Right? Like, I'm not going to. That made a lot of sense back then, but obviously, obviously it doesn't now.
Colin True
00:18:08.971 - 00:18:09.339
Right?
Justin Housman
00:18:09.427 - 00:18:18.771
And like, I would love to see the list of the people that were banned and why. I think that would be. That would be such a fun story to write. Like, maybe I'll try. I'm sure they wouldn't let me. But that'd be, that'd be real.
That'd be like a wonderful New Yorker piece.
Colin True
00:18:18.803 - 00:18:18.947
Right?
Justin Housman
00:18:18.971 - 00:18:21.803
Here's the people that were banned from the REI returns and here's why, like, that would be.
Colin True
00:18:21.859 - 00:18:26.291
I would love that. Please write that. I want to read that article so badly.
Justin Housman
00:18:26.403 - 00:18:34.939
Yeah, that would be super fun because, you know, there's some absolutely, truly hilarious shit. Like someone returned a pair of boots and there was like a frog in it or whatever. I don't know. Like, there's got to be some great.
Colin True
00:18:35.067 - 00:18:40.999
And then the people who really, why they're making the policy change, like, okay, this is like a clear abuse. Like, what was that person doing? You know?
Justin Housman
00:18:41.087 - 00:19:34.923
Right?
And like, and I guess if I was in charge of marketing with REI again, like, the thing that annoys me is like, it's not like this person is coming in from this from some company that has a really like liquid death somewhere that has like a really interesting marketing strategy. It's like you're coming from a pretty vanilla series of companies that all have the same kiss ass sort of marketing strategy.
Like, let's get somebody in here who's like, hey, we're banning no more returns, fuckers. You fucked it up. And like make some funny shit about it, right? Like, that would instantly like endear me to REI again, right?
Like, also, I'm coming from a place where I worked for the most beloved media institution in the history of a thing, Surfer Magazine. Right? Like that, like, that's like Thrasher level of like something that is deep and meaningful to people, right?
Like, I don't think there's anything like that in the outdoor space, really. I mean, I don't know. Mountain Gazette, I guess. I don't know. Something's been around for like decades. Field and Stream is probably the question.
Colin True
00:19:35.019 - 00:19:35.803
Right? Right.
Justin Housman
00:19:35.899 - 00:20:03.805
And this happened in Field and Stream too. And like You. You get people that don't have any idea what surfing is. Oh, I could. I know. I know all about executive shit.
And they come in, it's like, yes, what do they do? They trim content, they trim staff, they trim budget, they trim all the sort of shit. Then it's gone, right?
Because they didn't know what they were doing. They didn't know who they were talking to.
So I've been there, and nobody comes out better for it other than a few C Suite folks somewhere living on fucking Elysium orbiting the Earth.
Colin True
00:20:04.185 - 00:20:42.725
I mean, that's kind of what we're getting at, I think, with all this. I mean, I, like, again, the reason I want to talk about the return policy before is it just seems like an unforced error.
Like, there might be good reason to do it. I don't know why you do it now or maybe do it quietly or maybe they're just.
They know they're in a bad PR cycle, so they're just ripping the band aid off too. Which I kind of would respect it if that's. If that's the case on the CMO hire. Like, again, I feel kind of bad. I don't want to.
Like, I'm not prematurely judging someone. It just seems like I was really hoping when I clicked on that link that it would say, like, came from, like, you know, brands X, Y and Z.
And this is why it's going to make sense for, like, the, you know, the album Outdoor consumer and what REI is going to do and the messaging around it. And, you know, and so it was like, okay, well, it's not that. So let's see how this shakes out, I suppose.
Justin Housman
00:20:42.885 - 00:20:53.509
Or we hired Sophia Hernandez, who's the GM of our best selling, of our best performing store hire.
Colin True
00:20:53.557 - 00:20:55.429
Someone who's been here for 20 years.
Justin Housman
00:20:55.557 - 00:21:19.583
Never worked in marketing, but she knows why people come in the door. She knows them. I mean, I worked at a Barnes and Noble and like, I even that, right? Like, I worked at Barnes Noble for like five years.
And like, when the managers changed, everything about it changed. Like the. And it was like there were managers that knew every book in that store and they knew every customer in that store.
And it was fun to work there. It was fun to be there. And then we get a new manager in and it was like, well, we got to make sure we're hitting our numbers.
And like, the vibe was off within seconds, you know, and it's like, well.
Colin True
00:21:19.719 - 00:21:26.271
You think that sucks? You think Abigail Jacobs might call you next? She found out that you worked at Barnes and Noble for five years.
Kind of get your opinion on things, you know?
Justin Housman
00:21:26.343 - 00:21:27.167
Yeah, maybe.
Colin True
00:21:27.271 - 00:21:29.983
Justin, you know, I'm not really sure what to do. I heard she worked at Barnes and.
Justin Housman
00:21:29.999 - 00:21:39.065
Nobles for five more books in the rei. I mean, honestly, that I would, I would love. Like, when I go to REI now, it's, I usually I head right to the book section.
I want to be like, what's going on?
Colin True
00:21:39.105 - 00:21:41.697
That was always my favorite part of any outdoor store. I love the book section.
Justin Housman
00:21:41.801 - 00:21:45.569
Yeah. And as I get smaller and smaller and smaller, it's like, well, I can get this other anywhere, you know?
Colin True
00:21:45.657 - 00:23:53.767
All right, let's take a quick break. We'll. We'll get into some other more fun headlines.
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So for many, Ernest Shackleton's 1914 Antarctic expedition aboard the ship, the Endurance has become a story to obsess over. I think there's lots of content that's been produced over the years.
And according to Explorers Web, this week there's a new documentary that has debuted that the team has captured and spent weeks filming. The wreckage of the endurance, which lies 3,000 meters down at the bottom of the ocean.
The team has also released a high res 3D scan of the wreckage that made up of 25,000 images that shows the ship in incredible detail. I brought this one up because I'm like, what is it about shipwrecks? Because I get sucked into this stuff.
I have no interest in boats, like big boats, aside from like sea kayaks or something like that. But if I have found myself in titanic YouTube rabbit holes where they're like, here's the timeline.
It's a two and a half hour timeline and I'm like, zipping along watching the Titanic, the animation of it sinking. And I don't know what it is, but this immediately, like, I couldn't click on it fast enough. What is it about a shipwreck?
Justin Housman
00:23:53.911 - 00:24:00.315
Is it that you are hoping that in the background, like, you see, you get a glimpse of the alien, like, city or whatever in the abyss?
Colin True
00:24:01.295 - 00:24:05.135
Right. This is actually. Oh, no, there's. There's Atlantis. It's right there.
Justin Housman
00:24:05.175 - 00:24:06.159
Do you remember the Abyss?
Colin True
00:24:06.207 - 00:24:07.111
Yeah. Great movie.
Justin Housman
00:24:07.223 - 00:24:10.023
Isn't there a director's cut where they find like a city or something?
Colin True
00:24:10.079 - 00:24:14.519
Yes. Doesn't that happen at the end? Well, the ship takes off at the end or something like that. Right? There's a direct.
Justin Housman
00:24:14.567 - 00:24:19.873
Oh, you know what? The director's cut. Ah, director's cut is there's like some sort of tidal wave that they prevent.
Colin True
00:24:19.969 - 00:24:22.001
They wash up on shore or something.
Justin Housman
00:24:22.113 - 00:24:28.897
Or I think they prevent a tidal wave from destroying a city. I think they like. Like there's a tidal wave coming and they're like, I could be getting. I need to watch that again.
Colin True
00:24:28.961 - 00:24:31.153
But you don't get into shipwrecks. Like, this is. You don't.
Justin Housman
00:24:31.289 - 00:25:40.857
I understand why, though, because it's like. Well, it's a time capsule, right? Like, it's there. It's like you can. It's like they just left.
And I mean, the bottom of the ocean is easily the weirdest place in the universe. I mean, like. Like I can. I feel like I would if you.
If you were to somehow drop me in, like, the void of fucking space between, like, here and, like, Alpha Centauri, I'd be like, yeah, I get this. If you drop me down to, like 3,000 meters below the surface of the fucking ocean, I would, I would.
Even if I'm in something that's gonna keep me alive, I would instantly die of just like, totally. Just like, what the fuck? Like, it makes no sense to me. So the fact that, like, this ship is just chilling down there is totally bizarre.
Also, anything Shackleton related, I feel like with the Voyager probe out there just merrily on its way toward probably humanity's doom eventually, if we're being honest, just out there being like, hey, look at us idiots. Kill us. Come find us and kill us. Right. Like, if it could somehow tell the story of, like, Shackleton, that would be so much cooler than what's on.
What's on the Voyager probe now. I mean, the fact that none of these people died during the Shackleton, like, thing is still, to me, the most incredible thing.
Like, when it all is said and done and we're closing the book on humanity, that's. That's how I would lead it. That would be that. That would be the intro to the book.
Colin True
00:25:40.921 - 00:25:53.385
So is that ultimately what this is? Because they're ultimately human stories. Right. And you hear. Think about.
You hear about the Titanic, you hear about this, and it's like the people who lived and what happened to them as they went through it and blah, blah, blah. And then here's the evidence of it at the bottom of the ocean. Right. That's really what it is.
Justin Housman
00:25:53.425 - 00:26:06.857
Yeah. I mean, if you, like, I don't know of a famous example, but I mean, if there was like a.
Like a World War II bomber or something, like the Memphis Belle, I guess, would be an example or something where it was like, it came back from, like, beyond unbelievable odds.
Colin True
00:26:06.921 - 00:26:07.383
Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:26:07.489 - 00:26:10.211
And here it is full of bullet holes and shrapnel holes.
Colin True
00:26:10.243 - 00:26:11.203
Well, it's like when you tour Pearl.
Justin Housman
00:26:11.219 - 00:26:29.891
Harbor and be like, whoa, totally. Yeah. It feels alive there. Feels alive for that minute. I think that's part of it.
And I think the fact that anything on the bottom of the ocean is inherently the most fascinating thing that could possibly be. I mean, it's just absolutely nuts to me that we live on a world ocean's that deep. It's so cool. Yeah.
Colin True
00:26:29.923 - 00:26:38.275
There is a documentary about this group that did on the. That studied the endurance. So I think it's on National Geographic, which means it's probably either on YouTube or Disney Plus.
I definitely want to check it out.
Justin Housman
00:26:38.315 - 00:26:41.719
So do you have any, like, I have an interest in shipwrecks that are, like, 12ft below the surface.
Colin True
00:26:41.807 - 00:26:46.527
Like, that's the idea that you can, like, just, like, snorkel down and, like, check it out. Like, that's dope. I want to go do that.
Justin Housman
00:26:46.551 - 00:27:07.855
You like that? See, I don't really care. Like, I actually surfed a couple days ago at this reef break. I haven't surfed in 20 years. Down in my hometown there.
There never used to be a shipwreck there. Now there is. It's. It'll always be there. No one's ever going to move it. It's just on the rocks in front of the break. And I remember like going, huh?
And just keep like, I don't care. Like, the ship's only like 20 years old. It's just a boat. It's just like a wrecked car somewhere. Like, it's not that.
I mean, the fact that it's the Endurance is what's interesting to me.
Colin True
00:27:07.895 - 00:27:16.511
That is true. However, there's definitely up on the little mountain I climb up, I talk about all the time.
There's a couple of red cars on the side of the mountain and I was like walking by them, like, kind of looking inside.
Justin Housman
00:27:16.583 - 00:27:22.271
Well, if it's old enough, it'll be interesting. If it's like a Model A, you're like, whoa, somebody got drunk and drove off of this cliff 100 years ago.
Colin True
00:27:22.423 - 00:27:27.583
Well, keeping it ocean themed, according to a Justin Housman on the website the Cooldown this week.
Justin Housman
00:27:27.639 - 00:27:29.911
That guy sounds handsome, doesn't he?
Colin True
00:27:30.023 - 00:27:46.755
Thousands of whales apparently are fatally struck by ships, but now, every year. But now there are some. There is some new technology to help reduce. Reduce the number of those collisions. I guess. There's only one Justin Houseman.
I thought there might be two of them, but apparently not. Apparently it's you. Tell us more about this. This was a really interesting article.
Justin Housman
00:27:46.915 - 00:27:56.283
Well, how weird. I mean, I guess it's not that.
I guess it makes all sense in the world, but like, I had no idea how many fucking like, whales were killed by ships every year. It's absurd.
Colin True
00:27:56.339 - 00:27:57.335
Do you know the number?
Justin Housman
00:27:57.955 - 00:28:01.923
I don't remember off the top of my head, but it is in the thousands. And like, if you told me there.
Colin True
00:28:01.939 - 00:28:04.739
Was like 2,000 whales in the world, I'd be like, yeah, that's probably about right.
Justin Housman
00:28:04.827 - 00:28:41.193
Right. Yeah, well, totally. I mean, like, I think the figure also includes, like, dolphins. Right, like, but still. Okay, still.
But it's just like, is there a more like gnarly example of like, humanity's just absolute fuck you to the earth than, like, ships are ships filled with, let's be honest, Sephora and West Elm bullshit just like churning out from China. Oh, look, here's a blue whale just like right through that son of a bitch. I mean, it's like, good Lord, what are we doing here?
Yeah, but, yeah, so they've. But the Woods Hole. Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute out there in Massachusetts, I believe.
Colin True
00:28:41.209 - 00:28:42.845
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Justin Housman
00:28:43.505 - 00:29:43.165
Has. You would think this wouldn't. They would have figured this out a long time ago.
But basically they figured out how to put these like infrared cameras on the front of these ships or I don't know if it's on the front, somewhere on the ship and it looks out to where they're going. And of course, it uses AI to like, basically scan the ocean. And like, the AI is trained, right? Like that's a normal wave, that's not and whatever.
And it can immediately detect whether or not the disturbance it might be seeing on or right below the water is from a whale or an animal, right?
And so, like, if a whale comes up and like, it spouts blowhole or even its back just crest the surface, or even if it gets like close enough to the surface where it disturbs the surface a little bit, these cameras can detect it and immediately identify this is a whale. Now, of course, the one thing I didn't talk about in the piece, it's up to the captain to. Right.
I mean, like, you gotta think there's somebody on one of these giant Maersk liners.
It's like, well, it's gonna cost us a thousand dollars and it probably does, yeah, to like turn to starboard for like one degree, you know, and like now we're going to be an hour late. So, like, I don't know, you know, but apparently.
Colin True
00:29:44.025 - 00:29:44.497
What is it?
Justin Housman
00:29:44.521 - 00:30:55.951
Marston? I think it's Marston, which is based in like, Hawaii. It's like a big shipping line, has already started using for a few months.
And I was like, they've. They detected like, I think it was 1100 whales and dolphins in their, in their path over three months.
And they did maneuver around them, which is cool. So I, I mean, it's like it's about goddamn time that we do this kind of thing. But.
And like, and like, the worst parts are of course, like in the Triangle.
It seems like the worst parts are in the Triangle from like California to Hawaii to maybe it's like Seattle or something where it's just like, it's just like the migratory path of like, virtually every important whale that isn't the right whale. The right whale lives in North Atlantic and it's just getting hosed like blue whales and humpbacks.
And like, I think it was like 16 endangered whales all use this migratory route. And it's like our biggest containers are going from China to like the west coast, back and forth, just annihilating whales as they go.
Jesus, it's brutal. And it's, it's something that I never, never given any thought to until I started putting that story together.
But hopefully this will make a difference, you know, I mean, I Don't really. I. I do. I. I do think that there are probably going to be some, like. Some, like, un.
Maybe some kind of, like, restrictions where you have to start using this sort of stuff.
Colin True
00:30:56.023 - 00:30:56.551
Sure. Right.
Justin Housman
00:30:56.623 - 00:31:00.159
Because otherwise, you got to wonder, like, what do they care? Like, I heard under Trump, they're going.
Colin True
00:31:00.167 - 00:31:01.799
To mount Bazookas to the front of the boats.
Justin Housman
00:31:01.887 - 00:31:15.741
Yeah, they're actually going to. They're going to. Yeah, that's true. Actually, the. Part of the new. The. The new.
The new whale destruction act, they're going to have, like, things that create whale songs on the front of these boats to attract them from everywhere so they can just annihilate them on the way just for the hell of it.
Colin True
00:31:15.813 - 00:32:22.625
All right, let's take one more quick break, and then we'll come back with our parting shots. Rock fighters.
It's November, which is bad news if you're a turkey, but if you're a retail buyer, it may be the best month of the year because you're laying plans to crush it on your shop floor in 2025. And I have a tip for you, Royal Robbins. That's right. Royal Robins. And if you're like, really? Yeah, really.
Royal Robins seems to be gaining traction in a really interesting way.
They're one of the true OGs of outdoor brands, part of that early group of California climbers who kicked off the modern era of the outdoor industry right alongside Tompkins and Chouinard of the North Face and Patagonia. So if anyone can step up, they can. I spoke with the Royal's brand president, Eric Burbank, and they're making moves and planning routes.
Focus on natural fibers, tight merchandising, and a range that knows what it stands for. All the stuff that Royal himself would be down with, too.
I bet Eric will be coming on the Rock fight next month so we can dig more into Royal's comeback story. And I'll tell you, I've been wearing one of their new wool hoodies, guys, and it feels pretty damn good.
So this November, don't be a turkey, check out Royal Robins, and next November, you'll be thanking yourself. All right, man, time for the parting shot.
Justin Housman
00:32:32.855 - 00:32:35.639
Who's yours first? I went first last time. Do I go first?
Colin True
00:32:35.767 - 00:32:36.071
Okay.
Justin Housman
00:32:36.103 - 00:32:37.263
Yeah. All right.
Colin True
00:32:37.279 - 00:34:19.061
So, as of this recording, Sunny Strower is back on the Arizona trail, attempting to set a women's fkt.
I say back because she actually had a broken pole right as she had started her attempt a few days ago and decided to go back, fix it, and then Start again instead of running, you know, doing her whole thing with a broken pole.
Anyway, I interviewed Sunny last week and you're going to hear that interview in a couple of weeks here on the Rock Fight, hopefully after we know if she's finished her FKT attempt and if she got it or not.
But anyway, part of Sunny's attempt includes a fundraiser for the Karen Project, which is working to change the narrative around gender equity in the outdoors, which she posted on Facebook to promote and then almost immediately got four misogynistic comments from men on her post.
One example being, and this was actually one of the nicer ones, quote, gender equity in the outdoors translates to we hate men, so let's do anything we can to be a man among several others. Now, I don't know why I still find these types of posts shocking.
It's not that I don't acknowledge that this hateful rhetoric exists, but I also wonder what the intended outcome was supposed to be to posting something like this. Like, are you hoping the original poster or someone's gonna read it and then come around to your way of thinking?
Also, why would I ever try to be something I hate? It's just as confusing as it is reprehensible. But enough about all that bullshit. As of this morning, I checked it before I was.
I was writing the outline for this and before Justin and I got on the call, Sunny's on track to her goal. She's going north to south, so we'll get warmer as she goes.
And now that the election is behind us, I don't feel bad asking anyone listening to this to support her and head to the link that I put in the show notes to support the Karen Project and to work to create a more equitable outdoors for women.
So my parting shot, I guess, is at you, the listeners, to support Sunny, and also to the douchebags who are commenting on Sunny's post that they can just go fuck right off.
Justin Housman
00:34:19.253 - 00:34:20.400
Stop being asshole.
Colin True
00:34:20.502 - 00:34:22.148
Yeah, what the hell, man?
Justin Housman
00:34:22.316 - 00:34:26.044
I feel like lots of our parting shots are stopped being assholes. Just stop being assholes in general.
Colin True
00:34:26.124 - 00:34:28.904
And now it's time for the stop being assholes part of the show.
Justin Housman
00:34:29.644 - 00:35:41.507
Speaking of which.
All right, so according to an article on Outside Online, a couple of rookie hikers attempting California's Mount Whitney, as you obviously know, is the tallest peak in the lower 48 as a day hike had to be rescued after their combined kit weight of 150 pounds plus 5 gallons of water, which adds an additional 42 pounds, making the per person kit roughly 96 pounds. Slowed them down. Now, we don't over, of course, know how that was distributed.
Maybe one person had a hundred pounds, another person had whatever the remainder is. I'm not very good at math. Is that better anyway? Yeah.
The inexperienced duo made it about two and a half miles, roughly over about nine hours, which makes sense with all that weight, and set up camp, only to wake up to find snow had filled up their shoes, which apparently they left outside of their shelter, which I get sort of. So they called for help with their iPhone's SOS feature. Little. Little nod of the cap to Apple. Like, well done. There's. Now we're not. I don't want to.
Not. I don't want to chastise this duo.
If I want to chastise anybody, it's the people that are going to immediately come out of the woodwork to call these people morons, idiots, whatever, for trying something that they obviously weren't prepared for. First of all, we don't know anything about them, Right. Like, they may have been wildly prepared. Maybe they had, like 100 pounds of camera.
Colin True
00:35:41.571 - 00:35:43.283
Maybe they were just really challenging themselves.
Justin Housman
00:35:43.419 - 00:35:56.743
Yeah, right. Like, maybe they're rucking or whatever it's called. Like, I don't know.
The article didn't include any comments from the hikers, but they probably were just trying something ambitious and they both learned something and are no worse for the wear, theoretically. Although I don't. They may have had some injuries or.
Colin True
00:35:56.759 - 00:35:59.255
They may have to get. They might get a bill from Search and Rescue. That might be.
Justin Housman
00:35:59.335 - 00:36:37.009
Well, that would. That. That. Yeah, that's the only downside. But what immediately I thought of was the first time I went. I went backpacking with my wife.
I'd already been backpacking, like, a fair bit, but, like, she really hadn't. And I knew. I kind of knew where we were going. I knew it was a relatively short hike. We took a shitload of stuff because we. I wanted to.
And I knew I could carry it. And we both had.
And for reasons that aren't worth getting into, we each had a gallon of water like that we bought at the store that we were just holding as we walked. And I'll never forget, this woman that passed us was like, that is not the way to backpack. That is, there's better ways to carry that water.
But I'll never forget that is not the way to.
Colin True
00:36:37.057 - 00:36:39.217
Did you bury her body, like, 200 yards from the tree?
Justin Housman
00:36:39.241 - 00:36:51.893
Yeah, she's at the bottom of a lake that we camped next to. But it was like, I'll just. I just can't imagine having that impulse. Right. Like, lady, we had an amazing time. And guess what?
That was the beginning of my wife and I's like decade long relationship with back backpacking together.
Colin True
00:36:51.949 - 00:36:52.341
Yeah, right.
Justin Housman
00:36:52.373 - 00:37:34.929
Like, right. Like we went out and bought better packs, we went out and bought lighter stuff, all this sort of stuff. And like we had an amazing time. Yeah.
In retrospect, my arm hurt after carrying that in all the way, but it was fine. Now we didn't need to call for sos. That's a different story. But the point of the story is like, you don't know and just shut up.
Like, like just let them. Unless they were littering or doing something like, terrible. Like, who gives a. We all started somewhere.
And like, if it made sense for them to have, like, who doesn't want to see the top of Whitney? Right? Like, you know, maybe they weren't going to the top. We don't know.
But like, we all started somewhere and like, maybe it made a lot of sense for them to carry everything that made them feel safe. I don't have any idea. But it's.
But, and this is also, we're just assuming that there's going to be people coming out of the woodwork to criticize this, this crew. Because you know what? My first, frankly, my first instinct was to criticize.
Colin True
00:37:34.977 - 00:37:35.537
Yeah, me too.
Justin Housman
00:37:35.601 - 00:37:37.561
So. So my parting shot was kind of up myself.
Colin True
00:37:37.633 - 00:37:37.929
Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:37:37.977 - 00:37:48.697
And you know, it's just like, just let people go outside. Just let. I mean, this is, this is like what we're learning now, right? Like in these last like few years with like more people outdoors.
We all have different experiences. We all have different wants and needs out there.
Colin True
00:37:48.801 - 00:38:01.933
Just let them do it, you know, happened. Or like just now, like, you know, outside, online or other people to report on it. You know what I mean?
Like, this is, I mean, how many times somebody has been out there on a backpacking trip and been like, that didn't work, you know, like, and that's.
Justin Housman
00:38:01.949 - 00:38:04.389
Just a churning news cycle. Like, why is this even news?
Colin True
00:38:04.477 - 00:38:17.061
Exactly. That's exactly because I had the same, I had the exact same reaction when I saw that story. I was like, oh my God. Then I'm like, well, wait a minute.
It says they're rookie. Like they're just trying something. One of the. I don't know. But just picture like, hey, man, you want to get to the top of Whitney? Yeah.
All right, what do we need?
Justin Housman
00:38:17.093 - 00:38:17.373
I don't know.
Colin True
00:38:17.389 - 00:38:18.013
Let's go.
Justin Housman
00:38:18.149 - 00:38:44.961
Maybe they were 18. Exactly. Like that's like that, like, that's I.
I was just driving the other day home from the central coast and I passed a spot where I remembered me and a buddy once were like, let's go drive to Cambria and hike from Cambria to Cayucas, which I think is like 12 miles. I can't remember. There's no paths. This is just. We're just going to do it on walk. Yeah, we had.
I think I brought some chips, a beer, and, like, a joint that was, like, what. I had no phones.
Colin True
00:38:45.033 - 00:38:45.385
Perfect.
Justin Housman
00:38:45.465 - 00:39:21.675
I had no idea. We had no idea how we were going to get, like. We just. We just assumed that the beach connected all the way. Of course it doesn't.
There's, like, horrifying cliffs. At one point, we had to, like, the tide was coming in and we. We were, like, stoned and had to, like, crawl up like.
Like, literally grabbing poison oak to pull ourselves up this cliff as the waves were, like, smashing below us. And we had to, like, like, trespass over this, like, ranch and, like, avoid a. Literally run away from a bull that was, like, coming after us.
We finally got to the highway. We made it back to town. Each. We each ate an entire large pizza. All of this is true. I will never forget any of this.
And, like, got back in the one car and went up to pick the other one up, and it's like we had no planning. We didn't know we were doing. I was 18.
Colin True
00:39:22.055 - 00:39:24.303
You have never had an adventure like that. That is.
Justin Housman
00:39:24.359 - 00:39:25.663
No, it was really.
Colin True
00:39:25.719 - 00:39:28.439
And you'll never have another one like that. I'll never do that again.
Justin Housman
00:39:28.527 - 00:39:37.991
You know, I learned. I learned all that sort of stuff. So anyway, you know. Yeah, just. Just. Just to me, I own self. Stop. Just go easy on folks. Go easy on the newcomers.
Colin True
00:39:38.063 - 00:39:40.767
Love it. All right, man, we can wrap it up there.
Justin Housman
00:39:40.951 - 00:39:42.875
I don't want to. Want to keep talking about that.
Colin True
00:39:43.295 - 00:39:44.607
Well, we got to come back next week.
Justin Housman
00:39:44.631 - 00:39:45.583
We'll talk some more.
Colin True
00:39:45.719 - 00:39:52.203
That's it, guys. Thanks for listening. The Rock Fights production Roc llc for Justin Houseman. I'm Colin Tree.
Justin Housman
00:39:52.219 - 00:39:52.523
You know what?
Colin True
00:39:52.539 - 00:40:08.803
We both produced this episode. We don't have a producer today. Produced today by Justin Houseman and Colin True art direction as always, provided by though. Sarah Gensart.
Thanks for listening. Here to take us out, it's Chris Demais. He's back again. He's gonna sing the rock fight fight song. And we'll see you next time.
Rock Fighters come back for Gary Beer.
Chris DeMakes
00:40:08.859 - 00:41:04.665
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Welcome to the rock fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree.
We talk about human powered outdoor activities and pic bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture, music, the latest movie reviews, ideas that aim for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth.
Rock flight, Rock flight, rock fight welcome to the rock slide, rock fight, rock fight welcome to the rock flight, Rock flight, rock fight, Rock slide, rock fight, rock fight welcome to the rock fight, Rock fight, Rock fight.
Justin Housman
00:41:06.445 - 00:41:08.925
Rock ride, flag fight.