Today on THE ROCK FIGHT (an outdoor podcast that aims for the head) Colin kicks off the show talking about the decision by Red Wing to sunset the Vasque brand.
Colin and Producer Dave delve into the historical significance of Vasque, a company that since 1964 has played a crucial role in shaping outdoor footwear in the US. They examine the trajectory of the brand, from its early innovations, such as the iconic Sundowner boot, to its struggles with brand identity and market competition.
The duo then talk about Nike's decision to utilize their ACG line to revitalize their international business before wrapping things up with their parting shots.
Here's the Nike ACG history article as referenced by Producer Dave.
Chapters:
00:00 - Support Relief Efforts After Hurricane Helene
02:02 - The Fall of Vasque Footwear
20:06 - Nike's Strategic Shift in the Outdoor Market
30:00 - Parting Shots: Lessons from Vasque's Closure
Hurricane Helene Relief Links:
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Episode Transcript
Colin
00:00:00.320 - 00:01:57.582
Western North Carolina businesses need your financial support now more than ever.
In the aftermath of Hurricane Helene this month, Darby Communications, based in Asheville, North Carolina, is donating its ad space here on the Rock fight to help other outdoor businesses in western North Carolina get back on their feet. Asheville, local endurance brands Fuelgoods and Preseo have started a fundraiser through the Together we rise t shirt campaign.
100% of these t shirt sales will go to local outdoor businesses that have lost everything, like Rock Geist, Bikepacking USA, a local bag maker, and Asheville adventure company, owner of Asheville's only climbing gym. Both businesses lost everything in the unprecedented flooding from Hurricane Helene.
You can get your together we rise shirt and support western north carolina@fuelgoods.com. my shirt just arrived last week. I've been rocking that thing around, so make sure you get yours as well.
Thanks for supporting this important initiative. Welcome to the Rock fight, where we speak out truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree.
This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin true.
It's Monday, and after a week of travel, I'm back with producer Dave to talk about some topics that have come out of the outdoor industry in the past week or so. But before we get to that, some housekeeping and programming reminders. That's programming reminders, folks.
If you're new around here, we would love you to join the Rock fight by lobbing a stone at the follow button on whatever podcast app you are listening to us on. And also give us that five star rating. And if you follow and rate the show, hey, send a screenshot of your subscribed app to myrockfightmail.com.
and that's also where you can send us your feedback along with your address. And guess what we'll do, guys, we're going to send you a rock fight and a gear and beer sticker.
And speaking of gear and beer, check out our other podcast on the Rock Fight podcast network that's called Gear and Beer, and you can find it on the app that you're using right now. That's about it. Let's start the show.
Chris DeMakes
00:01:57.686 - 00:02:01.890
Welcome to the Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock bite.
Colin
00:02:02.990 - 00:05:32.042
Okay, it's been about a week or so since we've gotten to dive into some headlines around here, and this story came out a couple of weeks ago. But I know producer Dave and I have been both interested in weighing in on it and the it.
I'm referring to Red Wings decision to Sunset footwear brand Vasquez. So in a statement, Red Wing said the following. I'm quoting here.
Together we have done remarkable things across the outdoor industry, said Red Wing in a statement. But this market has changed dramatically, particularly over the last several years.
What consumers seek and how they want to both shop and buy have changed dramatically. These changes have forced us to reevaluate our business proposition and opportunity.
We have therefore made the difficult decision to sunset the vast brand and our outdoor business as we know it today. And that's really just a long way to go to say, hey, sorry everyone, but we really fucked this one up. That's probably the more direct way.
It's why they should have said that. It wouldn't have been as polite, I guess, in a statement. But that's really what they're saying. So let's roll it back a minute here, guys.
Vasque started in 1964 after their founder, a guy named WD Sweezy, returned to Minnesota from Europe where hiking was already a thing and old WD was inspired to create hiking boots here in the US. So Red Wing launched Vasque, which is named for Vasquez Peak in Colorado.
It was launched as Voyager to target hikers, backpackers and climbers, and eventually was rebranded as Vasque. And a couple quick notes on this early history. First, wd sweezy.
Okay, is this a footwear guy or the shoeshine guy that Dick Tracy tips an extra $0.75 for tips on the whereabouts of pruneface? Why do we name kids by their initials anymore? I really miss that. What a great name.
But 2nd, 1964, when talking about Vask, there are two things worth noting. Excuse me, two years worth noting. 1964 and 1984. So we'll get to the latter in a second.
But the thing about this, right, Vasque predates all of the following iconic, legendary, or at least somewhat influential outdoor brands. They're older than the north face, they're older than Timberland, they're older than Schwinard equipment, not Patagonia.
Chouinard equipment, the OG Yvonne brand. They're older than Royal Robins and Marmot.
And I'm sure I'm leaving others off the list here, but the point I'm making is that Vasquez is an OG here in the US. Other boot brands have been around longer, but Vasque changed the game in the US in terms of outdoor footwear.
Now every brand needs their icon, that one thing that they make, that anyone inside of the outdoor industry, or even those on the outside can point to and say, when I think of that brand, this is the product I'm thinking of. And for Vasque that icon arrived in 1984 when they released the Sundowner.
The Sundowner was a revelation when it came out as one of the first boots to incorporate a gore Tex liner, along with hitting that Goldilocks zone of not too heavy but not too light. And the boot was an instant hit with the growing outdoor market.
Now, if you've been around this industry as long as I have, you know that finding success with enthusiasts is only the first part of the equation.
Part two is mass adoption, which also happened for vasque in the nineties, when the sundowner cracked that coveted college campus outfit, along with things like the North Face Denali, the Patagonia snap tee, and the iconic CB ski jacket. We'll pour a little out for the CB ski, actually. Is the CB ski jacket still around?
It might still be still be around, but if it is, it's not as cool as it used to be.
Producer Dave
00:05:32.146 - 00:05:33.070
What is?
Colin
00:05:34.890 - 00:06:59.062
But the long decline started at the end of the nineties when Vass started making the sundowner in China.
And I remember this because I was working at EMS back then and there were a lot of sort of long timers at my shop who were always adding the caveat of the sound down. The sundowner is a great boot, but not as good as it used to be when it was made in the US. And whether or not that was true doesn't matter.
Vasquez was the outdoor boot brand at the time, and they had made a move that had made them vulnerable right as brands like Merrell were ascending and keen was just a few years away from barging into the outdoor footwear space with their Newport sandal and eventually their own well received boots. Later on, Vasque released the breeze, which a lot of people loved, and it became another footwear staple.
But for some reason, Vasque and Red Wing just couldn't get out of their own way. They made these weird decisions, including discontinuing the sundowner at one point and actually talking with some folks, especially retailers.
Over the past week since this story came out, apparently they became increasingly difficult to work with and at the same time that other, more reliable brands and products were becoming available. The last nail on the coffin came not this past week when Vass closing was announced, but when they launched the reconnect lineup in 2023.
So last year, in a profile on footwear news, vast president Bryce Wernsman. Wornsman. That's another great name for Vasque. Like Wernsman and Swezy. Like, is that a law firm in Minnesota or something?
Producer Dave
00:06:59.086 - 00:07:00.998
He deserves a monogram as well.
Colin
00:07:01.174 - 00:07:05.182
Yeah. So at least they had good names going for them. I guess we could always say that.
Producer Dave
00:07:05.326 - 00:07:06.970
Well, those names for sure.
Colin
00:07:07.590 - 00:08:40.224
So Bryce Swarmsman said at the time that they were mid flight through a multi year reset. He also said they were posing the question, how do we make more approachable outdoor shoes for people who don't need traditional heavy boots?
And there's the nail right there.
Ignoring their heritage as a boot brand, trying to go broad, which means competing against everyone else who was already doing what they want to start to try to do, and knowing that they have products in a brand story that resonates and has resonated with a core part of our community as well as those beyond the outdoors and still thinking you can win by making sneakers.
And it's a very interesting sliding doors moment to think about where Vass could be today if they had made some different decisions coming out of the nineties. At that time, they were positioned to be, again the brand for the outdoors. At the time, Timberland had lost their trail cred. Right.
They were becoming a fashion brand. Oslo, Scarpa, loa all around. But they didn't have the sundowner, which had become iconic beyond the outdoor space. Merrill was there, and.
But they were pursuing more sneaker style boots, meaning that they could coexist with Vasque.
And really, ultimately, guys, Danner ended up being what Vasque should have been, an american made boot brand that wasn't afraid to be an american made boot brand. So I look at Vasquez shutting.
I look at Vasquez shutting down as a cautionary tale to others of the importance of brand stewardship and a reminder that having an iconic product doesn't mean that shit can't go sideways. So, Dave, let's bring you in. What are your thoughts on losing Vasquez?
Producer Dave
00:08:40.272 - 00:08:56.224
I think in your sliding door analogy, I think you also forgot they also left the door open for Keene and Obos and this new generation to come in and just take their shelf space just right from them. So it was kind of a. I.
Colin
00:08:56.232 - 00:09:03.884
Mean, you can't really, like. You could have, like, scripted a better way or a more effective way for them to shoot themselves over 20 years.
Producer Dave
00:09:04.012 - 00:09:17.996
Honestly, I think it begins, frankly, with actually the naming conventions of their iconic product. Colin the sundowner. The sundowner, right. I think that's an unfortunate name to begin your transition with.
Colin
00:09:18.028 - 00:09:20.000
They wrote the ending before the beginning.
Producer Dave
00:09:20.420 - 00:09:44.382
Let's go even further, Colin. I think if you're a. If you. Hold on.
If you're a person of color, you might have a different association with the term sundown or sundowner, especially if you're from the midwest. Right? Sundown towns, right. They used to have sirens go off at dusk to warn black people to leave. Right. This is a real thing.
There's still maps of towns that are considered inhospitable.
Colin
00:09:44.446 - 00:09:48.530
So just grand asshole was needed even 40 years ago.
Producer Dave
00:09:48.830 - 00:09:59.384
Our industry wonders why we have trouble being inclusive. And then here you go, like, whoa. Like, let me just put a big siren out for you. Don't buy this product.
Colin
00:09:59.512 - 00:10:05.696
Well, I apologize for missing this in my research on this story, but that's why producer Dave is with us.
Producer Dave
00:10:05.848 - 00:12:40.688
But I do think that the loss of Vasquez is what I call a stupid tragedy. It's a tragedy in the sense that, look, this is an OG brand. It's an authentic, it's a pillar of the modern outdoor industry. Right?
One of the first to come up in that way. It's a line of products with a stellar reputation, or at least that was always been their case.
They have placement in every meaningful specialty retailer. For decades.
They rose this rising tide of outdoor trends in the nineties and really did create a sense of this kind of beginning, this broader recognition, still very core, but starting to be one of those looks associated with the trend.
They were never able to leverage this platform into a broader opportunity, keeping that core audience while expanding to attract a wider, like the other OG brands did.
And like I mentioned before, and like new competitors such as a, like you said, more sneaker fied, Merrill and Akeen and an Obos coming in, Danner taking those places.
They leveraged their authentic status and turned these abilities to create innovation and performance products into a more comfort driven, widely accessible products. This is what the industry was doing at the time. Right.
And I would say the catch here is that Vasque, in a way, refused to market and communicate like the brands needed to. Now, I have my quibbles, of course, with the way some of those brands do market, their distinctiveness and their communication.
I think that we do have a kind of a herd mentality in our industry. Everybody looks the same, but at least they did it. They made the investments. They looked outward. You talked about Vasquez last year.
They're moving into the sneaker trail runner. And honestly, that's not the wrong position. It's just 20 years late.
It's like, excuse me, this industry was going lighter and faster a long time ago, and you had that ability to start bringing those extensions into your brand, into your line more organically, and you didn't you chose not to. You chose to retrench and you chose to disassociate from modern marketing. And I think that's just not new.
It's like now the, frankly, it's just now hitting the fan. These choices that they made for a long time, to not act like a modern brand and market and create desire, it's marketing by inertia. Right.
We're here. We got a good product, so we'll just be here. And it's very red wing in that regard.
But I think this is, like I said, it's a stupid tragedy or stupid decisions that were made and it didn't have to happen.
Colin
00:12:40.814 - 00:13:57.872
Yeah, it didn't have to happen is a good point. It's kind of the perfect storm.
Like any one of these things I feel like any brand goes through at some point they could weather, I mean, even like, okay, you offshore to China. Well, you're not the first brand to do that. Right. But you easily could have come back for it. But what did you do then according to these retailers?
I talked to you. Well, you became really hard to work with. So it's like now you've damaged your brand, or at least reputation temporarily probably.
If you just kind of looking where we are now, no one's going to care if you're made in China in 2024. They expect it. But at the time, it's like, oh, shit, you're going to China. Oh, well, that sucks.
You know, and there's an article I was reading about it, about people were always saying, oh, they're not as good as the american made ones. And, you know, and, you know, somebody was saying, like, I couldn't tell the difference. You probably, most people couldn't tell the difference.
But the bottom line is people thought you were, you had hurt yourself. Well, then you double down on that by being harder to work with.
And then it's just like all these little things, you know, now you're running to catch up because now you got keen in the marketplace. Merrill has ascended. Oboe's comes along to your point in 2007.
Now it's harder to get back to where you were and now you're just knee jerking all the time, right? It's like, uh, okay, sneakers. We'll do that. Yeah, we'll do this. Oh, like log outside.
Like whatever marketing campaign that you wanted to do that we've actually talked about here in the rock fight like a year ago. So, yeah, it's just, it is sort of a lot of unforced error leading to just sort of the ultimate tragedy, you know?
Producer Dave
00:13:57.976 - 00:14:05.002
Yeah. And just. Just an aside here, Colin, I'm not sure. Were the boots initially made in Italy before they.
Colin
00:14:05.026 - 00:14:06.870
The sundowners? Were they actually.
Producer Dave
00:14:07.410 - 00:14:53.030
Yeah. So the sundowners were made and were italian. So you have italian made boots. Right.
So not only that, that's a sexy origin story that they chose not to look. I suspect what we're seeing here is really not the end of a brand.
It's really just the beginning of the next process, which is a press release from Red Wing announcing that they're offloading the asset.
And that will be then followed by a breathless announcement from a private equity group that their latest acquisition of an authentic, iconic brand will be remade for the 21st century and available at designer shoe warehouse. So I think, you know, Vasque isn't done. It's probably more of a hill than a mountain, but it's coming. It's coming.
Colin
00:14:53.730 - 00:16:07.126
The only other thing I think about was one of the first sort of, I don't know, controversial topics that we wade into in the rock fight a million years ago at this point was when Loa launched their ATX line, which is their line of trail runners. And the point I made in that this is probably like February 23, if you want to go back in the catalog and listen to it, folks.
But the point I was trying to make wasn't that Loa couldn't make competent trail running shoes was. Just because you can expand into an adjacent category doesn't mean that you should. Right. You're a boot brand.
A trail running brand seems like such, oh, we'll expand our line and then profits will be made.
And you don't have anticipating the cost of inventing the line of manufacturing, the line of then investing in the years of stealing market share, which is basically what you're going to have to do to be established on the wall. And just because someone's a loa dealer doesn't mean that they're going to automatically bring in your trail running shoes.
And so I was actually at a show last week, and I got to talk to some folks from Loa, and it sounds like they're very committed to ATX becoming a thing. But this is the other side of it.
If it's like, oh, we'll go broader and more sneakery and adjacent, and it'll work out for us when it's like, no, you should probably just double down on being an awesome boot brand fast.
Producer Dave
00:16:07.198 - 00:16:50.292
Well, I have a little different view on that just in the sense that, like, with leave and Loa, I get that what they have to do is establish their performance credibility in this lighter, faster side of the market. And so will it ever be a huge piece or replace their boot?
No, but they're going to get learnings from creating these pinnacle products that they can then bring down to casual interpretations and start to build that lifestyle side. But you still need to invest in that innovation, which inevitably comes with a slower growth path of that actual piece. So I'm all for it.
If they're committed to it, this is the way to get to that larger opportunity. You have to cut your teeth and prove that you belong in the space, and it takes time, and it's not overnight. So good for them.
Colin
00:16:50.466 - 00:17:11.512
Well, and totally. And one thing I neglected to even talk about back at the time, too, is what's the current health of your business?
Because chatting again with the retailers this week, Loa and a lot of stores, is that position that Vasquez should be in. Right. So they're an established brand. They do really well for these retailers. And then it's like, let's take a risk. Let's kind of move over here.
Vascs all reconnect as the solution to their issues.
Producer Dave
00:17:11.576 - 00:17:37.564
Well, that's a perfect kind of acknowledgement, you know, with Vask shutting down. The insult to injury, of course, is being, you know, named one of wirecutter's preferred products. So you get this incredible printhead boost.
Credible testing, you know, all of. I mean, just really proving the point of where they belong, and. Oh, nope. Yoink. We're gonna. We're gonna take that away. Yeah. It's too bad. Stupid. Yep.
Stupid tragedy, man. Stupid tragedy.
Colin
00:17:37.652 - 00:17:42.388
I'm sure they would have loved to have the results of that. There's a field testing a few years ago.
Producer Dave
00:17:42.444 - 00:17:43.788
Wouldn't they changed anything?
Colin
00:17:43.844 - 00:17:44.748
Wouldn't change anything.
Producer Dave
00:17:44.804 - 00:17:50.560
No, they would, actually. You know, I guarantee this is. What's wire Cutter? That's. That's the question that's going well amongst.
Colin
00:17:51.310 - 00:18:01.050
Management, probably what would have happened. So. Well, rip Vasquez for today. To your point, maybe all of a sudden, they get pulled out, the zombie Vasc shows up.
Producer Dave
00:18:01.630 - 00:18:08.170
I'm going to be scoping the dsws looking for the new vasque. Okay. You got it.
Colin
00:18:09.550 - 00:18:47.302
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Producer Dave
00:18:47.406 - 00:18:49.366
Oh, yeah. Very much so.
Colin
00:18:49.398 - 00:18:53.278
These Loli, the Motley crue of outdoor apparel.
Producer Dave
00:18:53.414 - 00:18:55.294
Honestly, I think there's something there.
Colin
00:18:55.382 - 00:18:56.374
There's something there, right?
Producer Dave
00:18:56.422 - 00:19:01.530
That's right. That's right. Smoke it. Smoking in the groover.
Colin
00:19:04.790 - 00:19:11.502
Yes. What a. Actually, there you go. There's our next rock fight article. You know, Motley Cruz songs as outdoor brands.
Producer Dave
00:19:11.566 - 00:19:15.198
Yeah, smoke it in the outhouse. That works, too.
Colin
00:19:15.294 - 00:21:23.778
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because whether it's making amazing new garments or staying warm and safe out on the trail, you can do more with thermore. All right, one more headline to talk about before we get to our departing shots today.
So, as we talked about here on the rock fight a few weeks back when discussing ArC Terix, the outdoor market in China is white hot right now, and it looks like Nike is looking at that development as an opportunity to help as they look to build back after a rough few years.
According to SGB, Nike has tasked their top executive in China, Angela Dong, with overseeing their ACG line as they revisit its opportunity in the outdoor space to revive growth. Dong will lead product development, branding, and sales, and is tasked with growing the Nike brand in international and chinese markets.
Now, there was no mention in this article of how these decisions would impact or guide Nike's outdoor aspirations in North America, but the brand noted that it is still formulating ACG strategy, organizational design and operating model. I guess at the onset this makes sense.
I can imagine Nike making an impact in the international marketplace quicker than probably with outdoor anyway, quicker than they probably could here in the US. I've never really thought much about Nike's prior ACG efforts.
It always seemed like the outdoor lineup for those who didn't know about real outdoor brands. But Dave, you're a little closer to this. Given your background.
What are your thoughts on ACG and potentially deploying it here as the tip of the spear, at least internationally when it comes to outdoor?
Producer Dave
00:21:23.894 - 00:24:20.320
Well, look, nice Nike ACG look, they started in 1989. They're pretty much a legacy brand at this point as well.
Now, they always came on, like you said, it's kind of this more fashion forward site and that was their distinction.
We did a lot of looking in the old snooze articles of the day and you can see the discussion about ACG, a lot of hand wringing because Nike is entering this space and a lot of dismissal.
And I think that set up the tone and perspective of the industry to be immediately skeptical and dismissive, which sounds very much like our industry. But they weren't wrong. They had to prove themselves.
But I do think that the products like the Moab and the Deschutes prove themselves over time, that they actually had a place and could weather the storm. And they continued to test and kind of bring out products.
I think too, what they started to do, especially by the mid nineties, they're really pushing the industry forward into a more fashionization, bringing color, not just kind of the european versus north american color, but something in the fusion in there. You saw the other brands Reebok, everybody, the sneaker brand starting to play more into the outdoor space, trying to carve up that.
And again, this is the peak college campus outdoor brand thing. So it makes sense that these brands would do that.
So that's kind of the brand of back then, really an earnest level to create functional, innovative outdoor product. They really put their money and time to it.
I think they did win respect actually from some of the core to do this and started making money for brands. But now you flip that to 30, 40 years later now, and it is clearly just a street brand.
They went hardcore about 1015 years ago into that positioning and it just kind of has its little niche, very even New York City driven kind of New York outdoor, a little bit more like what Timberland became, right? This outdoor brand that became an authentic street brand. And what does that fusion of language and look look like?
And that's what ACG kind of went down.
But the last few years they have already been leaning into this idea of their heritage and kind of getting back into treaty, create some performance products. They're leveraging ingredient brands in a big way. They were always a great partner at Polartech.
Obviously the Nike machine is its own thing, but the folks at ACG always had great product first and the best materials to do that. And just, I thought just really kind of we're looking after the brand in a great way.
And so to me it makes sense, though that Nike's looking for places they can authentically play in, start to build that innovation back again, make some noise where they hadn't before. Or maybe even the industry is a little bit quiet so maybe there's an opportunity for them.
So I think it makes sense and based on all of what's going on over there in terms of, to get back to the basics, which is product and innovation and storytelling and ACG is absolutely a case study for all of that.
Colin
00:24:20.700 - 00:25:06.544
Well, and it makes sense everything you just said to deploy this in China, right?
I mean, obviously most of the noise coming out of the outdoor space in China over the last few weeks is very armor driven between Solomon and our territories and things like that. Yeah. And maybe there's other brands that are as well.
And if anybody out there knows of some other brands that are up on this and going this route, you know, Myrock fightmail.com, send us your comments on it. But for Nike, it's like, to your point, they don't have the baggage, right? Right.
Now they're like, we're going to ride outdoor to north american success. Yeah, sure. Okay. We've seen this because to your point, it's happened a few times before.
Even if they were successful before, it's like, well, now you're going to try again and now you're going to be, you go up that hill here, it's like Asia. It's like, I don't think they're going to have that problem. It's like they're your Nike. Oh, we have outdoor stuff great. Outdoor stuff is hot.
Oh, and it's Nike outdoor stuff. Great. Even better.
Producer Dave
00:25:06.672 - 00:25:41.520
And, you know, ACG to this generation mostly is vintage items available on grailed or goat or, you know what I mean, that are expensive on pieces.
And so I think that there is an audience that would be willing to accept this as a core brand if they chose to drive the opportunity from the tip of the spear before getting to the broader. And Nike has the ability to do multiple things at the same time. So we'll see what path they take.
But look, if their playbook is back to innovation, that's where we should look for them to go, is to create some new, interesting pieces.
Colin
00:25:42.490 - 00:25:46.670
Maybe they get offshore their manufacturing to the US and do a reverse vasc.
Producer Dave
00:25:47.650 - 00:26:00.898
Oh, I love that. I think that's actually a reverse vasque. That is actually when a brand evolves with the time and leans into new creation and storytelling.
Reverse Vasquez.
Colin
00:26:01.074 - 00:26:08.962
What was the name of the sneakers? I forget it. That's also, by the way, I always forget the name of the reconnect, because.
Producer Dave
00:26:09.106 - 00:26:19.026
Then it's right there. The reconnect. Right. Look, I get it. Do you see the marketing brief in that we're going to reconnect with the audience. What should we call it?
The reconnect. Dude, that's brilliant.
Colin
00:26:19.058 - 00:26:23.530
But it's also an acknowledgement in the name that you're not doing a good job.
Producer Dave
00:26:23.690 - 00:26:41.510
Well, I'm okay with that. I would just have a nice, Mia culpa. Radical transparency here. Like, yo, folks, we kind of got away from our core and our center. We're coming back.
Help us get there. And people would do that. Right? But don't pretend like it doesn't exist. I think that's the worst thing that you can do.
Colin
00:26:41.850 - 00:26:48.670
If we launch a podcast in a few years called the Gosh, we're really sorry, guys. Podcast. That'll be the equivalent.
Producer Dave
00:26:49.130 - 00:26:50.150
I like that.
Colin
00:26:50.810 - 00:26:52.630
Sorry, I didn't mean to bring it back to Vasquez.
Producer Dave
00:26:54.370 - 00:28:04.416
Also, too, just aside here, Colin, we did a Nike ACG history entry into a newsletter a while ago.
Colin, it's also interesting that these two stories come up together, the Nike and the Vasque, is that Nike is obviously example of that changing footwear environment that began 30 years ago that Vasque never really acknowledged until now. Right, in terms of the storytelling and Nike, that's what they were able to bring.
And I will say, when it first started doing that, of course, there's this big athletic maker. They do all their ads on tv. The industry is innately counterculture, so they kind of push against it.
But even by 1995, you see the trade even kind of taking to Nike advertising, and Nike's getting better at it. They're getting a little more core in their kind of. Their themes still be inspiring, but at the same time being legitimate.
And so you can see even the language of how the core is talking about Nike products, their colors, and their storytelling. It does start to change.
And it's just, like I said, even back then, it was changing, and Vasquez chose to put their head in the sand and not acknowledge it.
Colin
00:28:04.538 - 00:28:05.196
Yeah.
Producer Dave
00:28:05.348 - 00:28:17.788
And we did cover this a little bit. So I think if.
I don't know if you could pull up the article, we did a little coverage of some nineties era ACG ads and just some of that storytelling. And maybe we can put that in the notes, too.
Colin
00:28:17.804 - 00:28:48.870
Yeah, I'll link it in the show notes. That was great. It was part of our history program. So we'll with the outdoor Utah state outdoor archive that we did. All right.
Yeah, I'll link to that for sure, but. All right, let's take one quick break to hear about the great Malden outdoors, and then we'll come back with our parting shots.
This episode of the Rockfight is brought to you by the great Malden Outdoors, an outdoor enablement campaign in the city of Malden, Massachusetts, and the brains behind this initiative, Darren Josey. He's here with me right now. Darren, first of all, what is an outdoor enablement campaign?
Darren
00:28:48.990 - 00:28:59.624
An outdoor enablement campaign provides four advertising, resources, programming, and youth development. These are the four things that I believe are really important to getting more people outside.
Colin
00:28:59.782 - 00:29:03.252
So why is this campaign important to DEI efforts in the outdoor industry?
Darren
00:29:03.356 - 00:29:30.168
We have to start by getting more people outside. And that can start their journey from, one, becoming someone who just enjoys outdoor recreation as a lifestyle. But two, a path for a job.
No one told me that going outside and rock climbing could lead to a job one day, or fishing or bike riding. Didn't know that was a thing until I got into the industry.
And I want to change that and start that journey a lot earlier for way more people in our society.
Colin
00:29:30.264 - 00:29:33.736
Hey, man. And lastly, how can outdoor brands and retailers help or participate?
Darren
00:29:33.848 - 00:29:51.824
Go to thegreatmallandoutdoors.com, click on the Contact button and reach out. We are always looking for donations for gear, funds, and expertise.
You can lend your existing staff to lead an online course, or if you're in the new England area, come on down and lead a class. We're looking for more programming.
Colin
00:29:51.872 - 00:30:07.780
Head to thegreatmaldenoutdoors.com and click contact to build a partnership today. All right, it's time for the parting shot. Dave, you have the floor. You go first, colin.
Producer Dave
00:30:07.860 - 00:30:57.040
I'm just going to continue with what we've been talking about. My parting shot is at dumb brands that do dumb things and continue to confuse need with want.
Just because you make a functional product doesn't mean people need you, okay? You need to make them want you. And if you're not doing things to create desire, to create delight, we call it surprise and delight.
If you're not doing these simple things in your storytelling, in your branding and your naming conventions right in your color choices, then you're not going to stand out. And just because your tech sheet stacks up next to anyone doesn't mean it's going to jump off the wall, and it doesn't mean continued success.
So don't be a dumb brand. Don't look like everyone else, or otherwise vasque will come and get you.
Colin
00:30:58.660 - 00:31:03.956
The reverse Vasquez. Sorry. No, it's a good thing when it's a reverse vasque.
Producer Dave
00:31:04.148 - 00:31:05.052
Sorry.
Colin
00:31:05.236 - 00:31:10.860
I like Dave's branding corner. This is so. I like angry Dave. This is great. Usually you're, like, recommending Bruce.
Producer Dave
00:31:10.900 - 00:31:19.080
It's a stupid tragedy, Colin. It just didn't need to happen. It's a slow moving train wreck. No, stop.
Colin
00:31:19.980 - 00:31:27.420
Well, it's so funny to look back now over 40 years and to see it unfolding in real time. Like, that was not a hard, like, summary for me to write this morning.
Producer Dave
00:31:28.160 - 00:31:48.860
And this is not the crash and burn of a startup. I realized they had a really good run and they did really well and they made. It's so hard to keep a brand in a business going that long.
And I'm no way want to minimize that success and effort, right? Absolutely. But dang it, this just seems like, like you said, it's a self inflicted wound that didn't need to happen.
Colin
00:31:49.440 - 00:32:03.016
If this was a movie you'd like, you'd be closing the film like the slow pushing in on whoever's running danner today. And they would have a very small smile crossing their face cut to black. That would be the end of the movie, right?
Producer Dave
00:32:03.128 - 00:32:12.608
Right. Now, let's just say there's a lot of cortados and cappuccinos being spilled over at the Danner headquarters in Portland right now. Right?
Colin
00:32:12.784 - 00:32:15.088
The whole movie, they were always slightly behind.
Producer Dave
00:32:15.264 - 00:32:19.104
Somebody is twisting their handlebar mustache right now in satisfaction.
Colin
00:32:19.232 - 00:33:59.666
All right, my party shot is for Merrill. And it was a whipping boy or footwear day. Yeah, yeah. It's footwear day here on the rock fight.
So thanks to a listener who pointed out to us that Merrill has collaborated with the HBO Game of Thrones spin off House of the Dragon and released three House of the Dragon based versions of their peak five, Moab two and Moab three. Three shoes total. But based on those three shoes, and based is a really, I gotta say, loose word to describe this.
Cause effectively, they did some different colors and added, like a little house of the dragon trinkethe to the lacing along with some custom packaging. This, to me, is the other side of the bad Colab coin from the ultra Smartwool Rei Colab that we talked about a couple of weeks ago.
I am sure that there are some Game of Thrones superfans out there who will buy anything that is stamped with Thrones or the Dragon logo.
Or there are some cosplayers who are stoked to have a pair of comfortable shoes to wear to the next con that integrate into their homemade Targaryen outfit. But for Meryl, this feels like a particularly big grasp at a weird straw in a line of a lot of straw grasping.
Okay, so, Merrill, stop doing weird collabs with tv shows or making Gore Tex booty croc shoes with Burton. Vasquez is going out of business. Right.
A spot just opened up at the legit boot maker table, but no one's even considering you right now because you're just, like, wandering in the desert on some hallucinogenic field product vision quest that you're on for, like, the last two years. So big swings and misses are great. You need to go for it every once in a while. But this is just weird.
Who said, oh, man, you know, we could do House of the dragon, Merrill makes sense, right? No, it doesn't make sense.
Producer Dave
00:33:59.738 - 00:34:09.792
So, you know, the designers pitched it as authentic dragon scales, but due to strict importance, that would have been better. You can't get those. Oh, dude. You would have had the PETA people all after you.
Colin
00:34:09.906 - 00:34:13.092
That's true. Very rare, the. The dragon scales, right?
Producer Dave
00:34:13.156 - 00:34:13.660
That's right.
Colin
00:34:13.700 - 00:34:20.732
So, Meryl, just try being a hiking brand for a change, I guess is my last point of my question. Just let's be hiking brand.
Producer Dave
00:34:20.876 - 00:34:28.980
You're right. Actually, a spot did open up in the lineup. No doubt about it. No doubt about it. There's always someone who cancels at the last minute.
Colin
00:34:29.140 - 00:34:56.416
Okay, we can wrap it up there, man. The rocky production of Rockfight, LLC. Our producer today was also the co host, David Carset. Art direction provided by Sarah Genszert. I'm Colin Drew.
Thanks for listening. Here to take us out as Krista makes. I missed him. I missed. I missed the lesn Jay concert last week.
My wife was sick, and I was tired from travel, and we bailed on the show. I am ashamed. We'll see them next time they come through. But Krista makes is here right now to sing the rock fight fight song.
And we'll see you next time. Rock fighters.
Chris DeMakes
00:34:56.488 - 00:35:52.270
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Welcome to the rat bite, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree.
We talk about human powered outdoor activities and pick bites about topics that we find interesting, like pop culture, music, the latest movie reviews, ideas that aim for the head. This is the way we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth? Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome to the rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Welcome to the rock flight? Rock flight? Rock fight. Rock flight? Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome to the rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Colin
00:35:54.170 - 00:35:55.310
Rock ride.
Producer Dave
00:35:56.330 - 00:35:56.570
Fight.