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Today on THE ROCK FIGHT (an outdoor podcast that aims for the head) we dig into the details behind the acquisition of Backcountry.com by CSC Generation with former Moosejaw CEO Eoin Comerford.
Eoin joins Colin and Producer Dave to chat about how Backcountry found themselves in their current position, what we know about their new owner, and how this news was communicated.
Lastly Eoin gives his thoughts on a recent promotion at REI and Mountain Warehouse's bid to acquire EMS being approved.
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Episode Transcript
Colin (00:00):
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True, and today we are unpacking the backcountry.com acquisition with Eoin Comerford. But before we get to that, please be sure to follow in Rate the Rock fight wherever you are listening, clicking follow on your favorite podcast app and leaving that five star rating. That's the best way to help this show. And hey, rock Flight has a brand new show for you to check out. It's called Gear and Beer. That's where Justin Hausman and I talk about gear the way normal people talk about gear, honestly. And usually over a beer. You can find gear and beer wherever you're listening to the rock fight. And lastly, we want to hear from you. Send your emails to My Rock fight@gmail.com. Alright, let's start the show. Welcome, fight Fight.
(00:53):
Earlier this week, rock Fight broke the news to the outdoor industry about the acquisition of backcountry.com by CSC generation and yeah, that's right. We broke the shit out of this story and afterwards there was a lot of commentary, especially over on LinkedIn and that commentary was led by friend of the show Owen Comerford, who offered us some immediate perspective on the impact of this deal. So even though he was just on the show like a month ago, we immediately booked Owen to come back on and help us dig into what we know and what we've learned about this deal. So welcome back to the Rock Flight, where today it's unpacking the backcountry.com acquisition with Owen Comerford. Alright, and what is easily the fastest turnaround we've had on this show? Owen Comerford back on the rock fight. Thank congrats on setting a new record. No one's been on. What was it like three weeks ago at this point? Now you're
Eoin (01:43):
Back. I'm concerned though that I'm like the, I don't know, the demon of doom or something. It's like when bad news comes out or whatever, the initiatives roll in. Roland Erford, he's going to give us the news.
Producer Dave (01:56):
Well, I believe the Rock fight Reaper is the new, there you go. There's your avatar. It's pretty be, you know it's going to be a good one. That's right. That's right. Everybody sharpen your knives. You
Eoin (02:08):
Dead.
Colin (02:12):
Yes. Listen, your posts we're about to talk about on LinkedIn, I don't know where it ranks in the most engagement you've gotten in any post on social media platform, but we'll talk about it in a second. But it was pretty engaging. It was time to bring you back.
Eoin (02:26):
Thanks. Yeah, no, it definitely got a lot of engagement. I mean, you basically broke this story here. I got it on Monday morning and I turned, so I'm like, what? Because I saw the notes on the podcast, listen to the podcast. Well of course you have to talk all about the dogs first. I'm like, okay, I love the dog story, but can we get to the backcountry thing? I put time codes. There's time codes, totally buried the lead. Yep, totally, totally buried the lead. Then I reached out to some friends that I know in the industry and who are connected on that side and kind of got the scoop on the whole deal. But yeah, I mean this happened a few weeks ago, middle of August timeframe.
Colin (03:08):
Well, what we're talking about is Word came last week and was on pulse ratings.com. That's kind of where the only place you could find any information about this that back country.com has been sold off to CSC generation. Like you said, we talked about it on the show. Yeah, I definitely buried the lead. I had already written out like, oh, let's do a more just general topic this week. And then we had this thing on it, but I still led with it in the title of the podcast. You got to get those clicks. But the thing about backcountry that's interesting in all this is, I mean there was really a time, I'm thinking back to my sales manager days, it was like, okay, how do we get into REI and how do we get into backcountry? Those were the two, one A, one B sort of retailers you wanted to be in addition to then all the specialty guys, SGB an article a year ago, I found when I was kind of digging around about knowing we were going to chat and looking at some of the fallout of this news to discuss that backcountry was going to be shopped, and at the time they said they were generating a billion dollars in revenue.
(04:04):
I don't know if that was the case in 2023, but I mean I know at one point they definitely were when they were at their Apex, they really got there with the combination of early adopter, probably of e-commerce. And it was the convenience and the customer service kind of the combination of those two things that really allowed them to elevate. I just got to start, before we even get into the acquisition of it, when do you, when did the wheels start to come off for backcountry? Because it definitely, I said it on the show on Monday, I just don't even think of them anymore to go from, they were a crucial part of my career where it's like, how do we get in the backcountry to now, even if I'm researching something for the podcast, I don't go to Backcountry, I just go to REI or I go to the brand or something like that. So when did things really start to change for them?
Eoin (04:47):
I think it's the second part of that sentence that kind of sums it up is you go to the brand and Moss Jaw, we were sort of a smaller, more funner version of backcountry. So I lived this and they were our biggest competitor in the online space and a staunch competitor. I mean, their gearhead program was phenomenal and I thought they did a lot of really great things. And so really the start of the undoing of back country and quite frankly online retail as it relates to the outdoor industry was all the brands going direct. And so we witnessed that at Shaw because as the brands went direct, not only did obviously they start to take more and more of the e-commerce volume, but they drove up the customer acquisition costs because bidding against those brands for those same customers, and oh by the way, those brands have whatever it is, 70% margins versus let's say 45% margins for the back countries and news shows of the world.
(05:56):
So they can afford to absolutely outbid us for that traffic. And so you're left with, okay, either we continue to ramp up our marketing spend, which obviously kills your bottom line profitability or you have to look for other avenues for growth. And so I think for both with Jaw and Backcountry, a lot of that growth then came out of category expansion or brand expansion. We grew to about 700 brands, probably about 500 really active brands. I would say Backcountry I think was over a thousand brands. So they just went, I mean if there was a brand, they were buying it and they were going to be that resource for all the brands, but then even those brands went direct. So I think that was really the start of it. And it started off in the late S with North Face going direct in oh eight and then on and on Arc, et cetera.
(06:53):
So I think that was the start of it. But they were still growing, still in great shape. They went through the divestiture to TSG consumer in 2015 I think it was, and were still in good shape there. But I think what they saw quite rightly was this brand issue coming along. And so they said, we really have to control our own destiny here and get into private brand. And TSG had had a lot of success with that with Revolve or Revolve Clothing, which is their other biggest e-commerce play. And so that's where they started to lean in and I think that was where things started to go wrong was with that switch. But the underlying piece about the D two C was really what started everything.
Colin (07:38):
I guess it's easy to Monday morning quarterback now and say, because then we can get into how it went for TSG as the owner and all the private label stuff they put out and getting away from probably the roots of what really allowed them to thrive to begin with and say, well, if you're losing some of your control over the e-commerce market because other brands are sort of standing on your corner, I'm sure there was still a world where they could have continued doing what they're doing maybe at a smaller level and continue to thrive and grow and maintain some status. And instead it seems like they kind of went all in different directions. But it does seem like because it got to a point where some of these wounds just seem to be self-inflicted, right? There's kind a series of missteps after again that 2015 timeframe that really, when you look back on it now, it's like, I don't want to say it's indefensible, but it definitely makes you scratch your head a little bit.
Eoin (08:29):
Sure. And you're right, it is Monday morning quarterbacking. But I mean certainly the first, the absolute biggest in terms of self-inflicted wound was the fact that they started to sue everybody with the name backcountry in the industry. And I actually ultimately led to the then CEO getting axed. But I feel bad for the guy because he just got some really bad advice from the IP attorneys that probably came from TSG who said, because at that point they had made the decision that they had already had basin and range that line, and they already had stoic for many years as kind of their lead in private brand, but they said, no, we're going to go all in with backcountry as the lead for this private brand push, but okay, we need to protect the brand, so let's just go out and sue everybody. Now, I think if you were really in the industry, really understood the industry, you would say, oh no. I mean I think you could have predicted the outcome, right? Yeah. I mean you're going after mom and pop stores, you're going after, there was a ski brand in Michigan. I mean these are handmade skis doing, I don't know, a few hundred grand a year and they're getting these $600 an hour lawyers coming down their throat. I mean, it was brutal. And the reaction from the community was swift and severe.
Producer Dave (10:00):
Well, with a long memory because if you take that experience, extrapolate out now 10 years later when they want to sell their branded product to specialty retailers. Oh yeah, that was a book I believe in Tradecraft, we call that blowback.
Eoin (10:17):
Yeah, no, I read that about them being an outdoor retailer and I don't know if they got made any sales. I don't see why anybody, I mean that was kind of Wes Allen's point I think in his post on LinkedIn was why would we support this?
Colin (10:36):
And I think anybody can come back from a misstep if they had just tried done that one sort of thing like, oh, we should not have done that. We misread the new leadership didn't understand, or old leadership is gone now, whatever. But then to kind of continue to expand their brick and mortar to expand their private label lines, all these sort of things, this leads to this point now, then the Coda Cross, it's like, oh no, hey, you guys buy our stuff now. And it's like, all right, no one's really supporting you in
Producer Dave (11:03):
This. It's my cease and desist. I still can't get past it.
Colin (11:07):
I have it framed to know I shouldn't work with you. But I think all of that is leads us to the point of where they are today. I mean, I guess where they are today, do we know, I mean I'm not sure if it's public record at all, but do we know how big they are today versus where they were at their apex?
Eoin (11:23):
We, I mean I think the billion dollar number was correct. And I'm guessing that everyone else, they saw a big spike in 2021, I would think. And I'm sure like everybody else, I'm sure it's been a rough 22, 20 24, so hard to say. Now, I would say of the billion dollars, not all of that was backcountry.com because there was Berg Fund, which is the German aspect, which I think grew to be quite sizable, Moto sport, competitive cyclists, steep and cheap. So they had quite a few different elements. If I had to guess, I would say maybe the back country piece was in the 600 to 700 million range, which is still, I mean, still sizable, but yeah. And so it's hard to say. And then I guess the other question is how much did they grow the private brand to and what percentage of that total was it? I dunno
(12:25):
Mean it's something that we tried to do at Mora for years was to build out our private brand. And it is tough, especially if you're an e-commerce player, because so much of the traffic that you're bringing to the site has already decided what they want to buy. You're bidding for the North Face jacket, you're bidding for the MSR tent or whatever it is, and you've bid a lot to get that person to your site to then try and flip them to your stuff is really rough for us. For example, the MO store brand was our number one or number two brand in our physical retail locations. It was number 15, number 20, online. Online. So yeah, I'm very biased, but we make great stuff, mean great stuff, great fish, we invested a lot of time and effort into it, 4.8 star average rating, yada yada. But yeah, it's a tough road and I think they found that out.
Colin (13:26):
I mean, it's so easy in the outdoor space. I think all three of us have experienced this to some degree. I mean, especially when David and I back in our polar tech days, it's so easy to connect dots. It seems so simple then to execute against like, oh, well we could have an apparel line too. Oh, we're already doing my own footwear. Let's add apparel. Or hey, let's add a running line to our boot line or whatever. And that's from a brand perspective then to your point, the market forces is on a retailer side and establishing a brand when people don't already recognize your brand is pivoting to something different than what your brand is already known for. But it's so like, oh yeah, that makes sense. Of course that makes sense if we had that, of course people will buy that and it's really easy. I feel like they got us at the boardroom level to talk yourself into these things, slap together a forecast like, oh man, look at the upside if this thing goes well. I think it's an age old tale in the outdoor space.
Eoin (14:14):
And I think also that there's this thought process of, well, REI is doing it and whatever, I dunno if it's like 50% or whatever their own brand is. I know EMS, it was at least 50% at least of their business at one point. But thinking that, oh, well that'll totally extrapolate to a hundred percent online business and it just doesn't work like that. I think if I, looking back on it from a Mora perspective, you really have to be willing to invest a ton of money in top of the funnel, actual just total brand awareness around that product so that you've got people coming to your website who are just looking for that product, not looking for something else that you're trying to convert to yours.
Colin (15:02):
So that's all the background on all this. Now if we're looking ahead, what do we know about their new owner, CSC generation? I mean everything we reported here was just what we found on their website. Is there anything that we know about them and are there any predictions we can make about how they may approach getting backcountry to maybe where it once was or at least sort of stabilizing things?
Eoin (15:22):
So doing a little bit of digging, it's all out there on the public record. So CSC generation was originally founded by a Chinese private equity firm. And really their first acquisitions were I think in 20 16, 20 17 direct buy, which is out of northern Indiana, was kind of one of the bigger ones. And then from there they've bought other stuff. They had ice.com, bonton stores, ton
Colin (15:54):
Interesting
Eoin (15:56):
One, King's Lane Touch of Modern. So a bunch of these, most of them acquired out of bankruptcy for pennies on the dollar. And if you go through them, you can see the playbook. So the playbook is certainly for those that had retail locations that they acquired at a bankruptcy close, a whole bunch of stores. And that's just standard in pretty much any brick and mortar retail bankruptcy. You close the underperforming stores, you keep the good ones and you kind of go on with your life and hope that that'll work. And so that's Taba, for example, had 121 stores, they cut it down to 55, and then they're actually reopening stores right now. So that's part of the classic bankruptcy playbook is Shrink to Grow. IE cut all the fast, both from a corporate perspective and from a store location perspective, stabilize the business, get it to a good place that you can then really understand your model to start growing again. So that's the one. And so they've done that in a few cases, but then really I think, and so the question I think from a back country's perspective is what happens to their nine stores? If I had to guess that they will be gone just because I don't know This's going to fit the model going forward. They're very expensive leases. I mean, they have a 20 some thousand foot square foot store in the Grove in LA that is expensive real estate, that
(17:31):
Lease alone is probably $2 million a year. Right.
Chris DeMakes (17:34):
Wow.
Eoin (17:39):
And then they're also in other outdoor meccas like the Stanford Shopping Center in Palo Alto, California.
Colin (17:48):
We'll get to him in a second, but let's remember that Mountain Warehouse just got seven stores for 5 million Eastern Mountain sports, right? Yes,
Eoin (17:56):
Exactly.
Colin (17:56):
So those leases are probably significantly cheaper by comparison.
Eoin (17:59):
Oh my gosh. And the thing is, since this isn't a chapter 11, they hold those lease obligations. So if I had to guess, given the, and these are very beautiful stores, they're like boutique, I mean really beautifully merchandised. They're definitely not your grungy outdoor store by any stretch of the imagination. So there was a lot of, in the business, what we call tenant allowance ta, there was a lot of money that went into those stores. So they probably signed at least five if not 10 year leases. So you're looking at lease obligations of, I dunno, 25 50 million potentially here. I mean, it is a chunk of change. So I don't know that there'll be, unless they can negotiate with the landlords to get out, they'll have to figure something out. And then depending upon, I mean the stores today are very private, brand heavy, so it's almost all their private brand stuff. And then they'll sprinkle in a Patagonia fleece over here or an MSR tent over there. But do they flip that to, Hey, let's actually do a real outdoor store and have the brands that people want. I don't know. We'll see.
Colin (19:19):
I, and I don't mean to connect dots that maybe don't exist, but I'm just thinking about you mentioning that the origins being in the Chinese, the funding coming from China and seeing the success that brands like Arc Alteryx and folks are having in China now and the sporting and outdoor market, is that something they'll follow up on? You think that's an opportunity? Is there something there or am I just sort of like, yeah,
Eoin (19:43):
Maybe. I think it's certainly a possibility that hasn't been their model to date. And obviously our charts is a very premium brand. I mean, you think it's expensive in the us, try shopping for it in Asia. So I don't think that's the model. But plus since the initial investment, they've actually brought in a lot of other equity from more traditional American based PE firms. So each deal, I think they bring in a different set of investors to come up with whatever the cash is to make the deal. I also think this is actually the biggest deal they've done, which is going to be interesting, but actually it's looking at the other, there are other acquisitions that I think gives us the clue as to where they're going. So direct buy is a marketplace model, zero inventory held touch of Modern is a membership based deal site, which is event, it's an event flash based event, zero inventory held.
(20:55):
It's all based upon the people who own the inventory then fund that event. You look at, look@ice.com, which they had and then sold that was also a membership or also a marketplace model. One King's Lane, which was a deal-based flash size and has now flipped to a furniture marketplace model zero inventory held. I think you see where this is going. And they talk a lot about our proprietary digital technology platform. That proprietary digital technology platform is a marketplace. So here we are, September 11th of 24. My prediction is that that backcountry is going to be a marketplace.
Colin (21:50):
How does the marketplace work? So if you're already a backcountry enthusiast, do things change for you?
Eoin (21:57):
Well, no. It would be sort of shopping on Amazon, but now instead of shopping on Amazon, you're shopping on backcountry, but it's a better experience for the consumer because you're actually shopping from a bunch of really, really great, hopefully outdoor brands as opposed to a lot of the Chinese stuff that you see on Amazon. And hopefully they retain the whole gearhead aspect and the whole service aspect and the knowledge and all those pieces so that people can not just find stuff but can find the right stuff and also have the knowledge in terms of the information that needs to be presented to people to be able to make the right decisions around the product that they have. But ultimately, I think that's where it's going to go. And you can't get there overnight. Obviously they've got a ton of inventory that they've got to work through and maybe it could be a hybrid model where there are certain brands that are just like on Amazon, right? Amazon has its own one P business where they buy the product from the brands. And so backcountry may say, Hey, there are certain brands that we love that are profitable that we'll keep at one P, but any other brands, if you want to be on the marketplace, here it is, here you go. Which actually could be a real opportunity for this industry. I mean, I work with a ton of emerging brands who would love to be on Backcountry, and if they're really continue to coalesce enthusiasts in that marketplace, hey, absolutely, go for
Producer Dave (23:35):
It. Well, just so from the customer experience, you're going to have access to more brands. It's really the fulfillment aspect that's changing whether they're keeping inventory or not. So the customer's not going to really feel that in that,
Eoin (23:50):
Right? And I mean, they have two very big fulfillment centers, one in Salt Lake City, one in Virginia someplace. So they have an infrastructure to where they could flip that to FBBC fulfilled by backcountry model to support smaller brands, European brands maybe let's say that want to be in the US market, but that don't want to have to go through the challenges of setting up a US-based fc. So yeah, I don't know. It could be interesting.
Producer Dave (24:25):
It is interesting. And I think going back to the store models that they've opened and where they've kind of drifted in, that is the experience itself. So like you said, hopefully this is, if a customer can get more items, that's great. But I would be sad to see the gearhead model of personal kind of enthusiastic help and knowledgeable help dissipate into a chatbot and this overwhelming throwing so much product at every page that it now becomes a little homogenized. And that would be by criticism of their stores. I think the idea of brick and mortar is fantastic, they should play in that. But if you're only going to sell your apparel and it's in a store that looks, you're right, it's nice, but it's kind of basic. What's the point? It's not a gear shop, it's not what you are from your D two C and aesthetically it's fine. Is that enough to justify 2 million in rent at the Grove? I'm not sure.
Eoin (25:30):
No. I just don't see that. I just don't see that based upon the way, I mean that CSC operates, I just don't see this as part of the model. I mean, even I look at one Kings Lane, they had three stores in very highend, high rent districts, soho, New York, et cetera. Those are all gone, right? But I do think you look at their other models like One Kings Lane, like direct buy, there is a consultative selling piece to it, I believe in both cases. So I could certainly see the Gearhead piece being a key part of the model.
Colin (26:09):
One thing I'm curious about is the messaging, though. We found out about this because a listener sent the link to the pulse ratings article. Honestly, I was waiting to get my, I applied to get an account there. I was waiting a couple of days. So all we were really going off of is the what, 25 word blurb. And you could even hear me hedging on the episode as Dave and I talked about it, and that's when I put it on LinkedIn, sort of like, am I going nuts here? How are we the ones talking about this and nobody else has? And then on the flip side, you'd think that someone like CSC, if they're acquiring a brand like this, you'd hope they would be talking about it as well. Because this is an industry that is clearly wants to know what's happening, wants to be in the know, are you comfortable or not comfortable? Are you happy with the way these stories are covered in the outdoor industry? Do you feel like there's media opportunities that get missed? By the way, some of these things we find out about some of these things because your LinkedIn post, like I said, got a ton of engagement.
Eoin (27:10):
Yeah, it was over a hundred thousand impressions. Over a thousand comments. Or not comments, sorry, likes. But yeah, no, and clearly it got that engagement just because it was news to everybody. No, our industry does lack, I think just real journalism, most of the folks that are out there are glorified press release publishers. And that's why I love what you guys are doing here on the rock fight. That's why quite frankly, I think I've built a little bit of a following on LinkedIn is because there is this vacuum that needs to be filled. And actually I'm in conversations to do a column for one of the publications today. So
Colin (27:57):
Hey, all right.
Eoin (27:58):
Yeah. So when you're able
Colin (28:01):
To talk about that, we'll have to have you on to promote that. That'd
Eoin (28:03):
Goes, yeah. Yeah. So we'll see. It's fun. Somebody suggested I need my own substack, but I'm not sure I'm quite ready for that yet. But we'll see.
Colin (28:12):
I guess last thing while we have you here, another topic we spoke about on Monday's episode was the promotion of Cameron Janes at REI and then the acquisition of EMS by Mountain Warehouse being improved in regards to RE, I sort of made the assertion that the lack of outdoor industry experience in the c-suite at REI is contributing to some of the issues they're experiencing. The new COO Cameron Janes has background is at Walmart and Amazon, their chief marketing officer has a background at Clorox and Starbucks. And then CEO Eric Arts came up through VF and Urban Outfitters and David, I talked about it. And you have a background both at big retailers and then specialty retailers. I do feel like it's easy to say like, I'm just drinking the Kool-Aid because I care so much about this. But then if you have conversations with people in the space, it does feel like it's an integral part of this industry and that authenticity that we look for in a lot of these products. And are you able to really understand why going outside and the ways that we do means so much to us? Is this something that's actually important for a brand or retailer in our space to thrive, to look at something like that and look at where the backgrounds of the people who are running these bigger brands?
Eoin (29:16):
Yeah, I think it's interesting because really he was elevated after another long time executive left. And so this elevation obviously puts him in the number two spot and the clear successor if Eric leaves. And so yeah, I think it's challenging because people just assume just like TSG and the private brands, they assume the outdoor industry, it's just like every other industry. It's like, it's kind of like the fashion apparel industry, but maybe with nicer fabrics, right? That's all it is. And they don't really get what makes it different, both structurally in terms of the big gorillas and on all of the specialty folks, but then also just how much this product means to people in their lives. And it's not just something you put on your foot or on your body or on your back. It's actually sort of part of who you are, part of
Colin (30:10):
Your, that's an identity.
Eoin (30:11):
Absolutely. And so many folks don't get that. And so that's concerning. I think the other piece that is challenging from an REI perspective, and I've talked with a lot of REI folks over the last little while, is there is this feeling that the culture has slipped or is slipping. And I think looking back on it, and again, this is Monday morning quarterbacking, but the decision to sell the new campus to Facebook was a major misstep. And at the time, obviously it was a great infusion of cash and maybe really helped things along the way. But going to this, what's basically a remote model for the business at a time of corporate and cultural upheaval has kind of left people hanging and there isn't the same gel and closeness within the company and it's just really hard to get that back and to bring all these executives together and feel like you're part of one team when you're not, at least co-located a few days a week.
(31:23):
And I talk to brands that are trying to sell into REI and whatever about it. If you want to be an IT and be remote, sure, fine. But if you're a merchant, you need to be together. That's a team-based activity. You need to be able to touch and feel the product. You need to meet with the brands. You need to, I mean, how do you buy jackets and boots and packs over a Zoom call? I don't get it. It doesn't work. I mean, yes, okay. We managed through in 2020, but as soon as that was over, we went right back to having in-person sales meetings. You just have to, and so yeah, I think that it's really challenging. I think a lot of people within the company feel a little bit in the wind in terms of just that it's not the same place that it once was.
Colin (32:16):
Well, and then on the flip side, I compared it to Mark Neil who founded Mountain Warehouse in the nineties and is still there as the founder and CEO, and it's like now that the EMS acquisition is official and they're taking on the seven stores and they got 'em for their 5 million bucks, and I can't remember if we spoke about it when you were on before. I know we talked about EMS, but Oh no, we did. Cause I told you about my example of always rooting for them and treating them as the drunk uncle, the outdoor industry, and are they ever going to get it right? I feel like this is probably their best chance to get it right. It looks like while you've got kind of a real leader, I don't know much about Mountain Warehouse, we talked about it a little bit like we said last time you were here, but it just based off of this metric, to your point of understanding the space, understanding what makes it special, like, hey, I'll throw a few bucks in Vegas on Eastern Mountain sports. You see that pays off in five or six years.
Eoin (33:05):
Sure. I mean, yeah, they definitely get the space and they've successfully grown their brand beyond the uk, so they're in Asia, they're in other parts of Europe, so they know how to run an international business. It'll be interesting. I'm pulling for them.
Colin (33:22):
Oh, and again, thanks for making time so quickly. Love getting your insights on all of these things. I think that the backcountry thing is probably, I'm sure there'll be more things to talk about in the coming weeks and months as that unfolds. I really appreciate your insight on this and for coming back on the show.
Eoin (33:34):
Sure, absolutely. Thanks for having me on again.
Colin (33:37):
Alright, that's the show for today. Before you leave the Rock Fight Universe, however, head to our website, rock fight.co and click join the mailing list to sign up for news from the front. Our official weekly newsletter, the Rock Fight, is a production of Rock Fight LLC. Our producer today was David Kasad with Art Direction provided by Sarah Badass Mama Genser. I'm Colin true. Big thanks to our guest today, Owen Comerford and here to take us out. He's still pumped about less than Jake's new EP called Brand New Day. It's Krista makes, he's here to sing the rock Fight Fight song. We'll see you next time. Rock fighters. Rock fight, rock fight, rock fight,
Chris DeMakes (34:18):
Rock fight, rock fight, rock fight. Here we go into the rock fight where we speak our truth, stay sacred cows and sometimes hungry to disagree. We talk about human power and outdoor activities and bites are about topics that we find interesting like my culture, music, the latest movie reviews for the This is Where We Speak Our Truth. This is where we speak. Andrew Rat, welcome to the Welcome to To.
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