Today Doug opens the container to explore the new world of outdoor politics with Caroline Gleich.
Doug opens the show talking about the ongoing struggle to protect public lands from privatization and the critical need for increased political engagement among outdoor enthusiasts. He also delves into the contemporary implications of such efforts, particularly highlighted by the recent bid by certain factions to diminish public land protections.
Then Doug sits down with Caroline Gleich, a professional ski mountaineer and environmental advocate, who underscores the importance of authentic representation in politics, particularly from individuals who are deeply connected to the outdoors.
Caroline also talks about her recent experience running for Senate and what to expect (and how to cope) during the coming four years.
Learn more about Caroline Gleich by clicking here.
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Episode Transcript
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:00:02.400 - 00:06:54.346
Welcome to Open Container. I'm Doug Schnitzbahn. I'm a journalist, writer and overall lover of the outdoors.
I fought wildfires, reported on national politics, published magazines, and I once outfished Dick Cheney. They're fixin to steal your land.
That is what legendary outdoorsman and writer Ted Trueblood announced to the readers of Field and Stream magazine back in 1980.
He was warning anyone who cared about public land about the plot of the so called Sagebrush Rebellion, an orchestrated movement dead set on taking public land, giving it to the states, and in turn making it private. This plot to disenfranchise the public of their lands didn't start in the 1980s.
Trueblood told of a plan back in the 1940s when a cabal of Western politicians tried to do the same thing. Take a big bite out of the 640 million acres of public land in the US and basically give it to a few rich white dudes.
Of course, this idea that should horrify anyone who cares about the outdoors lives on to this day.
We saw it about a decade ago when the Utah legislature was dead set on taking public land away from us, moving it to the state and then into private hands. That proposal enraged the outdoor community so badly that the Outdoor Retailer show ended up leaving the state of Utah in protest.
Anyone who spends time in the outdoors has come face to face with the reality of private land and signs saying keep out reminders that your freedom to roam and dream can be limited.
When I worked for the Forest Service and for environmental groups, all I ever heard from those who were opposed to conservation and especially wilderness and roadless legislation was that protecting the land meant we were going to lock it up and keep it from people. In fact, politicians opposed to conservation protections like national monuments and wilderness areas are fond of calling them land grabs. Huh.
The only land I've ever seen locked up and Ted Trueblood agreed with this is private land. Those signs make it clear. Keep out.
The more private land we have, the less land we have to enjoy, to hunt on, to fish on, to hike on, to climb on, and most of all, less land we have that could be managed for the diverse species of plants and wildlife who live on them and with whom we share this rapidly shrinking planet. And with a new administration in office, we are headed for this conflict once again.
In the vice presidential debate last fall, JD Vance brought up the idea that public land is a waste and should be used for development instead. Development. As if we don't have enough of that. So the idea is the government can give our land to rich private owners as if they don't have enough.
They see this land as nothing but profit and housing developments. The thing that really puzzles me about this movement is that more people than ever are enjoying their public lands.
This isn't a liberal thing or a conservative thing. This isn't something limited to one group or another. Hippies and chacos and hunters in full tactical gear both enjoy the same places.
Our love of public land is somewhere we can come together. No matter our political ideals, we all love the time we spend outside. It's important for renewal and for a sense of who we are.
And more people than ever are getting outside. Especially since COVID This has been good because it means more people care about wild places and open spaces.
It's also been worrisome since more and more people are converging on these places. But that alone should tell you that we need to keep them. We need to preserve them.
We don't need to turn them into housing developments and big private mansions. For those who have friends in the political system, there is only one answer.
If we want to hold onto these lands as people who love the outdoors, we need to be more politically involved. This doesn't mean picking a party or engaging in partisan squabbling.
It simply means we need to show how important the outdoors and public land are to every American. For some reason, public lands and environmental policy come in very low on the things people say they care about in political discourse.
I think this is simply because we don't discuss them enough. It's not because people don't care about them.
Of course, the price of groceries and having a good job are always the prime drivers of politics and what people need from their government. But the outdoors provides jobs, it provides a living, and it provides a respite from the tough times of making a living.
Even when times are tough, we need more people running for office to speak up about how important time outdoors is to them. And as I've said several times here, those people come from both parties when it comes to political affiliation.
What we do see is a difference in way people think public lands and outdoor spaces should be managed and regulated. But that's another discussion. No one, absolutely no one, wants to see the places they love locked away as private land. This is why I was so excited. Last year when ski mountaineer Caroline Gleich.
Decided to run for Senate in Utah. It was a tall order. I don't think anyone else wanted the job, and Caroline was brave enough to. Step up for it.
But the important thing was someone from the outdoor space was finally charging in into the political arena and saying that this matters. I love the outdoors, and it matters. Caroline might not have won her race, but I think she made an important impression in the political world.
And I think she is just one of the first people from the outdoor space who will run for office to speak up for the land. These candidates can show what the outdoors has taught them. Leadership and stewardship and the ability to face figure out tough situations.
That said, I'm extremely excited to open the container with Caroline Gleich today. Caroline Gleich is a professional ski mountaineer, endurance athlete, and activist for the environment inequality.
A committed activist for social and environmental justice. She's testified to the House and Senate about how climate change is affecting snow Sports.
And in 2024, she ran as the Democratic candidate for the US Senate and the state of Utah. So let's open the container with Caroline Gleich.
So I am extremely excited to have a longtime friend and someone I really admire on the podcast today. Caroline Glake is a ski mountaineer.
She's an advocate, she's a presence on social media, and she recently ran for US Senate in the state of Utah, Carolina State. Good to see you and have you on the show.
Caroline Gleich
00:06:54.498 - 00:07:00.710
Likewise. Thank you so much for having me. And it's. It's great to see you and to catch up. I'm looking forward to the conversation ahead.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:07:01.570 - 00:07:09.114
Yeah, and as I said, I kind. Of introduced you there. You do so much. How do you define yourself? You know, who. Who are you?
Caroline Gleich
00:07:09.282 - 00:07:24.910
Yeah, I define myself as a professional ski mountaineer, endurance athlete, and environmental advocate. So former candidate for U.S. senate. And, yeah, I wear a lot of different hats, but those are the general ways that I define myself.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:07:25.410 - 00:07:49.584
And I remember first meeting you probably early in your career in Telluride, and you were just so open and friendly then. So it's so great to see how you've advanced since then and some of your achievements, too. You've.
You've been on the COVID of Powder, right. You've made an attempt on Everest. You've skied a whole lot of peaks. Tell us a little bit about your. Your skiing resume, maybe.
Caroline Gleich
00:07:49.762 - 00:08:45.918
I. Yes, I've been on the COVID of almost every major ski magazine.
So that's kind of how I got my start working in that realm, like powder ski skiing, backcountry, a few others.
And then in 2017, I became the first woman and the fourth person to climb and ski all 90 lines in the Shooting Gallery, which is Andrew McLean's steep skiing guidebook to the Wasatch Mountain range here in Utah, where I live.
And that was a project that I worked on for a really long time to build my skills to the point that I was confident to ski those lines because some are quite exposed. One of them is what is an ice climb. So I had to learn to ice climb and I had to learn a lot about avalanche safety.
And then I've climbed and skied Cho U, which is the sixth highest peak in the world, in Tibet. And there I proposed to my now husband on the summit at 26,907ft.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:08:46.014 - 00:08:46.718
I remember that.
Caroline Gleich
00:08:46.774 - 00:09:57.250
Yeah, that was really fun. And then about six months later, we were planning to go climb Everest.
I tore my ACL six weeks before the expedition, but I learned to use my leg without an acl. And I went on the expedition and we did successfully Summit Everest in 2019.
And then I've climbed and skied Mount Vincent in the highest peak in Antarctica. And I've been to a lot of countries now and skied high peaks in all over the world. I've climbed and skied big mountains on it.
I've climbed big mountains on every continent. I still need to ski in Africa. I need to go to Morocco. That's one thing I haven't done. But we did do Kilimanjaro.
We took my husband's parents up Kilimanjaro a couple years ago.
And yeah, I just, I love seeing the world, whether it's going to Telluride or Colorado or in the US around Utah, or whether it's traveling internationally through the lens of trying to climb big mountains. Because having that goal takes you to these places where you get to see a lot of things you wouldn't otherwise get to see.
And it's been one of the greatest privileges and opportunities of my lifetime. And I'm so happy I get to do this. It's so fun. I still love it.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:09:57.950 - 00:10:08.170
And then bam, you go from that to running for one of the most important political offices, certainly in the state of Utah, also the United States. How did that happen?
Caroline Gleich
00:10:08.710 - 00:13:21.690
Yeah, that's a great question.
I was really interested in learning more about how I could support candidates because as I've gone along the road in my advocacy, it's like being a skier and an outdoor person. The outdoors have given me so much. I'm always trying to find ways to protect that experience so that more people can have access to it.
Because for me, it's been like a life changing force. It really helped me find like a turnaround from anxiety and depression when I was A teenager and being outside gives my life purpose and meaning.
And so I'm always trying to figure out ways that I can give back, protect, preserve, and also make it more accessible. And I've done a lot of lobbying as a citizen and a volunteer with different environmental nonprofits, like starting at the local level.
I also worked for the governor of Utah's environmental advisor early on in my career.
And I've always understood the importance of property politics and government for creating these kind of solutions and land protection things at scale, because we can do things as individuals and there's a lot we can do. And government, though, allows us to create these solutions for a bigger scale.
So I started getting more involved in lobbying and then going to the state legislature, city council meetings, and then eventually going to Washington, D.C. and starting to go really regularly.
And it occurred to me that we really need to fight to have good people in office because we can lobby for all the bills we want, but if we don't have good elected officials, it's a lot more difficult. So I did a candidate training program in spring of 23 for women. And there I told some folks about how I'd love to run for the U.S. senate seat.
I actually really would love to take out Mike Lee in the U.S. senate. That would be awesome. And then flash forward to January of 2024.
I was asked by a strategic vendor if I would run for the seat because there wasn't a strong candidate who had filed. And it was like 48 hours until the filing deadline. And I talked to my husband and my family, and my husband was like, you have to do it.
And I felt really called to service because I've always looked for ways that I can help my community and my state and places where I'm needed.
And I felt like this was something that I could do to help my state that I love so much, to help Utah, but also to inspire other young people and then people from different backgrounds to step up and run for office. Because I think we need Congress to look more like the demographics of America.
And I also think that our skills from the outdoors translate perfectly into politics. Like, if you can find comfort in the coldest, most exposed places in the world, you can definitely run for public office.
It's all the same pain and suffering. So, yeah, so that was what ultimately led to the decision to file my candidacy for U.S. senate.
And I think there's also this element that, like, I pay attention to politics. Like, I'm an engaged citizen, and I see these guys, mostly men, and the decisions they're making and I'm like, I think I can do better.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:13:22.150 - 00:13:23.450
You certainly can.
Caroline Gleich
00:13:23.750 - 00:13:33.730
I really do think I could. I think I could do a good job. I know I could. I know I could deliver. And yeah, I hope to inspire other young people through the example.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:13:34.480 - 00:14:03.140
Well, one of the things I love most about your campaign and about you in general is just how completely true you stayed to who you've always been. It didn't seem like you tried to modify your campaign or say things you didn't believe in. You kept completely true to yourself.
And it was really refreshing to see that kind of authenticity in politics. I think it's part of what made you a really great candidate. Can you speak a bit about that? Is that just who you are? Is that a strategy you had or.
Caroline Gleich
00:14:03.750 - 00:15:32.670
Well, there's a couple of reasons. I think it's one of the benefits of running as a long shot candidate is that I felt like I could remain true to myself.
And also my campaign for a U.S.
senate race, we were underfunded, so we didn't have a lot of resources to do polling and to do that kind of research that may have changed my messaging.
But I think that you're right that voters are really ready for candidates who are real, who speak from their heart, from their gut, and they're not just feeding pull tested messages that they're really communicating what they believe. And you can tell the difference from someone who's regurgitating a pull tested message versus someone who's speaking from the heart.
And so I think it was one benefit of running a long shot race is that it wasn't like that it was going to be so close, that it was going to come down to one issue.
But I really do think it was a winning strategy and it felt really good to do it that way because politics can force you to make some really difficult compromises at times. And I'm really grateful. I never had to compromise my values and my beliefs to try to pander to voters.
I mean, I want to serve the voters and I want to listen, but I also want to make sure that I don't lose myself in the process of trying to win. So it was, it felt good and I think it paid off. And I had one of the better results for a U.S. senate Democrat in Utah in decades.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:15:33.070 - 00:15:43.730
Yeah.
And I think the biggest result you had was putting that face out there of authenticity and bringing the outdoors into the equation and showing young people what a different candidate could look like.
Caroline Gleich
00:15:44.270 - 00:16:18.000
Yeah. And I mean, I don't want to be like, I think Young people, but also just people from different backgrounds.
Because when you look at who these people are in office, it's like we just really need whatever your experience and background is, it is necessary and needed in politics today. Whether you're a stay at home parents, you're a, you know, a girl dad or a, you know, you have a dad, whatever it is. Like, we need that so badly now.
We need fresh voices and fresh perspectives. And so I really hope to bring more people into the process through my example.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:16:18.340 - 00:16:38.590
Yeah, and I like to how how you were able to talk about climate change and talk about issues people think of as very progressive. At the same time, I know you spoke out for people in military families since your family was military.
And course people online might have gotten upset about that. But again, I think you were staying true to who you are and how a candidate can be a complex person as well as a political candidate.
Caroline Gleich
00:16:39.090 - 00:17:58.532
Yeah, I mean, that's something I'm really learning too as I get older, is that there's a lot more shades of gray to issues. And it's not just you're this way or you're canceled.
I had the opportunity a few years ago to go and visit an aircraft carrier that was deployed at sea, that was under NATO command. And I've always been a person like that. You know, if you had asked me before that experience, I would say we need to defund the military.
But that experience really changed me. And yes, we do need to be very critical of military spending for that example.
But it helped me realize also the great sacrifice that those young men and women give to our country by spending that time on that ship. And it just helped me see things in a different way.
And so I also felt just with the whole campaign and in life in general, I like to pick goals where I can grow, where I can continue to learn and build. And like, I'm just always like, you know, someone said online the other day, they're like, I want to be you when I grow up.
And I'm like, wait, I'm not a grown up though. Like, I'm a kid, I'm still learning. I want to go back to school. Like, I want to take a class, I want to keep learning.
And I think that was one of my favorite parts of the campaign is just how much I learned, how uncomfortable it was. But I, I learned an enormous amount and I feel it really pushed me as a person.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:17:58.716 - 00:18:29.340
That's fantastic.
Now, going back to something you said earlier, I think you said, you know, you were pretty well hardened to be A political candidate already because of what you've experienced in the outdoors. And part of that is you're such a strong online personality.
And I know that in the past you've taken a lot of abuse simply for being a woman who is skiing, who's skiing big lines, who's being on covers of magazines. Right.
So were you already, you know, sort prepped and hardened for the kind of abuse you were going to take online as a political candidate from the kind of ski bros giving you a hard time?
Caroline Gleich
00:18:29.800 - 00:20:21.404
I mean, yes and no. I mean, that's sort of been my whole life because I grew up with three brothers too.
So in 2017, I had a criminal cyber stalker who left me voice messages, and he made up like 20 different accounts to harass me on social media. And for the first couple years that it was happening, I kind of was like, oh, this is just expected.
This is what happens when you've made it, or whatever. I just kept telling myself that. But then it got to the point where he really crossed some lines and I shared about it openly.
And that's when I was finally able to figure out who it was that he was doing it to other people and to really make it stop. But, I mean, it's really different. Like, having that cyber stalker, that was a different level. And I think that I've learned, you know, you can't.
I think the best thing about my campaign is that I had someone that was, like, posting my tweets and a lot of my social media for me.
Like, I was writing, I was helping to approve and write a lot of it, but I didn't have to be hung up in the comments and reading them in the moderation if I didn't want to. So it was really nice and healthy to have that separation.
And then when I was in a good mental space, sometimes I would dig through the comments because I think that we do have to take times to expose what they are, what they mean, who's posting them. We need to call that out, because if it goes on, if we don't confront it periodically, it can metastasize like a cancer on society.
So I would take times periodically and I would take some of the comments, post them, and be like, this is wrong, this is evil. But it didn't have the same weight that it used to have for me.
And so, yes, I think that being a professional athlete, being a public figure, there's a lot of similarities, honestly, like, it translated pretty well.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:20:21.572 - 00:20:39.900
Well, another thing I love about what you do online is that you really show Your vulnerability. I know I've seen you online.
You'll show yourself crying, or you show yourself failing, or you show the really hard parts of what you do in the outdoors. And I think it's really refreshing to see that in politics as well, to show vulnerability as being a strength.
Caroline Gleich
00:20:40.060 - 00:21:48.430
Yeah. Thank you. I have always just kind of had that personality where I don't necessarily have a filter of what to say or not to say.
So it sort of served me well.
Like, one of my public speaking coaches gave me a piece of advice that's been really helpful when it comes to being vulnerable in a public setting, and that is to speak to your scars and not to your open wounds. Speak to your scars, not your open wounds.
And that's been really helpful to find some sort of guardrail and boundary around what is appropriate to share and what I need to wait to share, because there are things that you're going through that, honestly, like, they're just too difficult to share. And by opening that. That wound, it's just going to cause more bleeding and delay healing.
And so you really need to wait sometimes until it's a bit more scarred over. And, yeah, that's been really helpful. And some of the things.
Yeah, I mean, there's probably been times I've violated that, because sometimes it takes me a really long time to process things. But I do break that rule sometimes. But it's been. It's been a helpful way to kind of navigate what to share and what not to share.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:21:49.450 - 00:22:30.870
And again, I think it's some of what you brought as an outdoor candidate right to the political arena and how I see you as kind of a pioneer in this way. I think you're the first person really from the outdoor world moving into this larger national political discourse. But I think there will be more.
And I think it's a big part of what we're talking about in this podcast is how the outdoor world is no longer a niche. It's really a part of everything we do. I mean, you look at a state like Utah you live in, and Zion national park had 5 million visitors last year.
Right. And people are coming to the outdoors. It's a part of all their lives. Right. It's not something niche. How do you see that evolving?
Caroline Gleich
00:22:31.450 - 00:23:14.250
I mean, we are a trillion dollar industry, and it's time we start acting like it.
It's time we organize politically and that we, you know, run candidates, we form PACs, and I mean, I'd love to change campaign finance so that it's not just about money, but until we can end Citizens United. That's the game. That's the name of the game. It's about money. Money is power. And so we really need to start flexing our political power more.
And yeah, also coming up with what is our agenda coming together to figure out what are the things that we want to advance. Because I feel that too often as the outdoor recreation community, we're playing defense and we're not on the offense enough.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:23:14.790 - 00:23:18.090
And how do you think we could. Go on the offense a little better?
Caroline Gleich
00:23:18.550 - 00:24:37.970
Yeah, I mean, I. It's. It's tough because the outdoor industry, there's a lot of different user groups. You know, you have off road atv, like motorized, non motorized.
I. I don't know as much about the wants and the needs of the motorized because I'm more on the human powered side of things.
But I think for beginning, just to try to get more funding for our public lands, you know, try to. To advance proactively some piece.
And we did a really good job with that, actually, in 2024, with the Explore act, bringing together all these different bills.
And that is a legendary package of bills that has passed now signed into law by President Biden that will bring a lot of reform and funding and opportunities for the outdoor industry. And I think more things like that where we come together and package the bills together. Yeah. And have more positive, proactive work.
So funding for public lands is a huge one. Ways to address the maintenance backlog for our public lands.
It's clear that they need more funding and resources so that people can enjoy them more responsibly.
And then I think we also need to come together with other user groups and figure out, like, you know, for BLM land, where the right places are for different uses.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:24:39.830 - 00:24:46.610
What parts of your outdoor resume and your outdoor experience do you think resonated with voters?
Caroline Gleich
00:24:47.430 - 00:26:15.072
I mean, it's an interesting question because my team would always, like, talk about Everest. And I was like, I don't really want to lead with that because they would always want to lead with that. And like, Everest is cool.
And it was hard and I overcame a lot of challenges.
But what I think is the part of the story that I feel resonates the most with voters is having this dream of creating this untraditional career and then being able to make that actually happen.
It's like what I think about when I think about all the different weird jobs I had to work along the way and, like, working my way up from a cashier and a greeter at REI to building this very untraditional Unlikely small business. I think that that is really the essence of the American dream.
And what I'm concerned about now is with the increasing economic concentration in the hands of fewer and fewer corporations and the growing inequality between the billionaires and the regular Americans, I worry that the dream that I was able to live is out of reach for many Americans, that it just can't happen now in 2025. And so that's what I really worry about.
And I think that that is partly the essence of what did connect with voters, is it's like we all have that mountain in our backyard that we want to climb. And, you know, having the ability to go and climb that mountain one step.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:26:15.096 - 00:26:28.560
At a time, that's fantastic.
Were there outdoor issues that when you talk to voters, when you're getting out there, maybe even voters who didn't vote for you, did you find they had issues that people might have brought up?
Caroline Gleich
00:26:28.600 - 00:27:49.770
Ye. Yeah, the. I mean, in Utah, we have so many issues with our elected officials trying to sell our public lands. And this kind of.
This attitude of Utahns is that, like, the federal government is bad and they want to transfer everything to the state.
But we know that the vast majority of the time that federally protected public lands are transferred to the state, they are sold to the highest bidder and privatized, closed forever. So we talked a lot about public lands on the campaign and about Utah's love for public lands.
Overwhelmingly, when I asked people what they love most about Utah, it was their relationship with the land and outdoor recreation and having these trails out their doorstep. I mean, it is a huge economic force here that brings a lot of other industries to the table. And I think that the real tension going forward is this.
This intersection of. Of public lands, mineral extraction, energy, and climate.
And so I do think that we need to do a better job reaching out to people that we don't think are necessarily outdoor rec people, but they are.
Like, there's a lot of people that are in our world, in our community, that do work in the fossil fuel industry or the coal miners or the hunters and all of them. And I just think we could do a better job coming together, listening, learning, and trying to find the best solutions.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:27:50.590 - 00:28:02.944
Yeah, because public land should be a shared resource. Right.
I mean, I know when I worked in wilderness there, people would always say, you know, wilderness, you're going to lock it away. You're going to lock it away. But the only time I've ever seen. Land locked away is when it's private.
Caroline Gleich
00:28:03.112 - 00:28:03.552
Yeah.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:28:03.616 - 00:28:10.496
So it's much more of a Danger that we'll all lose, including people on the other side of the political aisle will also lose those public lands. Right?
Caroline Gleich
00:28:10.568 - 00:28:43.000
Yeah. And you just see too with a lot of these companies that there's the boom or bust, you know, they, they do not.
We need to make sure when there are leases that the companies have enough funds for the remediation at the end so that we're not left citizens paying for the cleanup of toxic sites.
Utah's had a huge issue with that in the past and with polluted air and water and yeah, we need polluters to pay for their, the damage they do to the land, to the air and the water.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:28:43.380 - 00:28:53.890
So a question that David, one of our producers wanted me to ask you is, can a Democrat ever win in Utah, win a Senate seat, do you think?
Caroline Gleich
00:28:54.060 - 00:29:17.730
I definitely think that Utah's demographics are changing and I really believe that having competitive, that having competitive elections is vital for a healthy and functioning democracy. And I don't know whether that's going to be in five years, in two years, five years, 10 years, 15 years.
But I do believe that Utah is the battleground state of the future.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:29:18.910 - 00:29:21.958
Fantastic. And why do you think that is? What's changing?
Caroline Gleich
00:29:22.054 - 00:30:17.298
Yeah, I mean we've had a huge, huge influx of people from out of state with the COVID pandemic. Utah's the youngest state in the nation. We are the fastest growing state in the nation.
And for the first time in recent history, or in probably recorded history, the Salt Lake Trip did a poll that showed that more Utahns self reported as non LDs than LDs. So people are leaving the church, young people are leaving the church, a lot of women are leaving the church.
And I do believe that democratic values are very consistent with religious, Christian, LDS values. But you know, we really need to show the voters that.
And we also need to make sure that we're listening because really being an elected official isn't about your vision, it's about serving the voters and making sure that you're working for the people you represent. So yeah, there's a lot more outreach, listening and learning to do.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:30:17.434 - 00:30:20.978
Are you exhausted from the campaign or are you empowered?
Caroline Gleich
00:30:21.154 - 00:32:08.380
It's a really hard question, Doug, because it was a massive undertaking and I had a little time to decompress, but not much. And I think just with the way the world works these days, it's like the hustle is. Feels pretty never ending.
And so along the way I just really learned that one of my mentors at the beginning, he told me he worked on someone's campaign and the Person just worked themselves ragged and they were exhausted. They didn't take good care of themselves. And you could really see it.
And that was good advice, or it was a good cautionary tale at the beginning of the campaign. Because the lesson I took away from that is that I needed to prioritize exercise, fresh air, sleep and nutrition.
And so throughout the campaign, I made sure that I got the sleep I needed. I got my exercise not nearly to the same degree, but at least, you know, 30 minutes of walking outside or running.
I had a lot of really short ski days where I had like an hour. And it's like, I'm going to get as many runs in as I can at the resort.
I didn't get to do a huge, like, long day tour, but I found a way to make it work. And I think just with today's culture and hustle, hustle, you get used to just grinding. You know, like Americans, we work hard.
We don't get, like, European vacation time. We are expected to work all the time. And I. I'm a hard worker.
I don't have really great boundaries sometimes around it, but there are certain projects that are worth giving everything you've got to. And I know I gave Utah my best. I feel proud of the campaign and the effort I put in, and I feel I did it in a way that didn't completely destroy me.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:32:08.760 - 00:32:24.028
And I feel like you really got, you know, you got yourself out there, too, and now you're known, right? You were at the dnc. You know, have you created some kind of space for your voice to get out there in another way, nationally?
Are you going to build on this platform? Where are you going to go from here?
Caroline Gleich
00:32:24.084 - 00:32:49.998
You know, I'm working on some really exciting things, and I'll have more about that soon. But it just. It takes time to put things together and to figure it out. So there's some exciting things in the works.
And I always saw my Senate run as an extension of my two decades of environmental advocacy. And I will continue to be a voice and a force in trying to use government as a tool for a better world.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:32:50.134 - 00:33:13.480
One thing I see, too, is a lot of people right now feel really politically disempowered. And, you know, I think especially now, right as we're two days after the inauguration, we're talking a lot of people are really, really down.
A lot of people who care about the environment, care about public lands. What can you tell them when it comes to how they can advocate for and make the changes they want to see happen in the World, I would.
Caroline Gleich
00:33:13.520 - 00:35:01.329
Just say don't ever underestimate the power of showing up and speaking up, and keep showing up and speaking up. Because at the federal level it can be really hard to create long term change.
But one of the most lasting pieces of legislation or policy that I had a tiny little hand in advancing was Park City. In 2015, their city council voted to go 100 renewable by 2030.
And it was like me and just a few other skiers and outdoor people that went to that, that city council meeting and we helped convince the city council to, to, to do this. Like we were like, park City can be a huge leader. And that went through. Park City is on track to, it's changed our grid in the state of Utah.
And it also created this Mountain Towns 2030 framework that has spread to mountain towns all over the United States. And it's really, this kind of action at the grassroots level can have long lasting nationwide impacts.
And so we still have a lot of progress that we can make at the city level, the county level, at state levels.
Whether you feel like you can show up and lobby or like speak at a city council meeting, or whether you can donate to an environmental nonprofit, or whether you just invite, you know, a person of color in your community that wants to get into skiing, you could do like an informal mentorship day to help open a door to somebody else into our industry. There are just so many small ways that you can take an action and create change.
And so I just really hope that people will look inside and see what capital, what resources they can give and that they'll keep showing up and speaking up.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:35:01.709 - 00:35:25.110
One thing I'm hearing and, and we were talking about before we had you on the show is a lot of people seem really ready to get off of a lot of social media right now. And I know you spend a lot of time on social media and use it really well. It's a big part of how you reach people and how you get there.
What is your take currently on the best ways to kind of use social media or be engaged with it?
Caroline Gleich
00:35:25.810 - 00:36:19.000
Oh, that's a great question. I mean, it is a gnarly time with social media because I think really it's a failure of Congress to take action to protect Americans data.
I mean, I think at the core of it is like these companies are profiting from us. And yeah, it's a huge problem.
But I think if you like posting on social media, it's still a great place where we can spread a message and advance goals.
But if you don't There's a lot of other ways to organize and to find community, and it really is at the essence of finding community, even if you just find one person that you can do something with. Finding community, choosing community, choosing to stay engaged with other people is really. It's like choose community over chaos.
And I think our community will really help us get through the next couple years.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:36:19.380 - 00:36:32.280
So what are you most worried about over the next four years? What are you personally anxious about? Or, you know, and. And what ways do you see to kind of get through that anxiety or.
Or work for the things you believe in?
Caroline Gleich
00:36:32.400 - 00:38:55.162
You know, I'm just really concerned because it's 2025. That means Trump will be in office until 2029.
And we know that 2030 is a major year that we need to reduce pollution and carbon emissions if we want to avoid the most devastating consequences of the climate crisis. And so I am very concerned that we are going to reach a tipping point and that we are going to have emissions just rage out of control.
But at the same time, I'm hopeful that the work, you know, that we're doing at the local, state, and federal levels in the past, that that will make a meaningful dent and that it will help us to avoid that worst case scenario. And I think that I also really worry about our immigrant community.
I mean, I really deeply worry about that, because immigration and climate are linked.
Like, a lot of the reasons that people need to come here or are fleeing places are related to climate impacts and to other problems with, you know, US Military imperialistic policies over the last century. But I really deeply worry about our immigrant community because America has always been a place where it's been built by immigrants.
Like, we are a country where of immigrants, and our immigrants bring the best things to our culture and community. I really worry about our immigrants, and I really worry about our transgender community.
And I think, you know, to keep reaching out, tell those stories, get to know someone who may not be a, you know, someone who's an undocumented citizen.
Like, that has been something that has really changed my perspective on immigration, is just reaching out and getting to know people that come from different backgrounds. And, I mean, that's something I've found through social media. But there's other ways you can engage and try to meet people like that.
And when you meet somebody one on one and you really learn their story and you get to know them and you listen and you learn, it can really change how you feel about a lot of those things. So I think to continue centering those relationships and Trying to be an ally.
And, like, you know, even if you just tell one person, like, if you need a safe place to stay, you can stay at my house.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:38:55.266 - 00:39:03.690
That's wonderful.
And especially in mountain towns, resort communities, there's a lot of immigrants, there's a lot of people working who are probably in danger now, right?
Caroline Gleich
00:39:03.810 - 00:40:37.790
Absolutely. Yeah. And then I really worry about that.
I mean, I just think our immigrants, they get the job done, but they also bring the best parts of American culture to the table. Like, what would we be without our immigrant communities?
And, yeah, we really need thoughtful immigration reform so that people do have a pathway to citizenship. Vetted immigrants, you know, that are paying taxes and working here, that they have a pathway.
So, yeah, I think, again, it's, like, really easy to get overwhelmed by the weight of it all, but to really think about that one thing you can do in your life where you can take a step forward, because there is always a way that you can take a step forward, and you can be an ally or you can open a door or you can make progress. And so to really break it down to just, like, what is the next step? What is something in my sphere of control?
And then to just remember that, you know, we made enormous progress. We had eight years of Obama, four years of Biden, and it's not, to me even about Democrat or Republican. It's about values.
But the pendulum, it's gonna swing.
Change is constant, but we need to stay focused on the vision of the world that we're creating and hold that in our heart and lead with love and kindness and joy. So I also think there's a big part of self care, and I have been prioritizing.
I've been skiing a lot and getting outside, because at the end of the day, you know, you have to make sure that you have time for joy and that you remember what you're fighting for.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:40:38.330 - 00:40:38.882
Good.
Caroline Gleich
00:40:38.986 - 00:40:39.458
Yeah.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:40:39.554 - 00:40:47.070
So I guess the last question then. For you is something we ask everyone at the end of this show is. What gives you hope?
Caroline Gleich
00:40:47.690 - 00:41:15.160
What gives me hope is. I mean, I find hope and resilience like on the ridgeline, in the wind, watching the snow get blown or fall from the sky.
And the time I spend in nature, it fills my cup. It gives me what I need, and that keeps me going.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:41:15.860 - 00:41:28.374
That's amazing. Caroline, I can't thank you enough for being on the show.
And is there a way you can let people know if people want to follow you, if they want to try to get in touch with you, if they want to work with you, what's the best way for them to try to do that?
Caroline Gleich
00:41:28.462 - 00:41:52.370
Absolutely. I am really, you know, looking for brand partnerships and other opportunities.
I do a lot of keynote speaking for corporate keynotes or nonprofits and so you can go to my website, Caroline Gleich G L e I c h.com Sign up for my email newsletter or you can contact me there or you can follow me on Instagram also at Caroline Gleich thank you so much.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:41:52.410 - 00:41:55.922
I'm really excited to see what you do, Dax, and I'm inspired by you all the time.
Caroline Gleich
00:41:56.026 - 00:42:05.390
Thank you so much for all that you're doing as well. We're in this fight together. We'll keep it going. I really appreciate having this conversation and having the friendship we've had over so many years.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:42:07.450 - 00:42:29.420
Thanks for imbibing Open Container production of Rock Fight llc Please take a second to follow our show on whatever podcast app you're listening to and send your email, emails and feedback to myrockflightgmail.com Our producers today were David Karstad and Colin True. Art direction provided by Sarah Gensert. I'm Doug Schnitzbahn. Get some thanks for listening.