Today the various hosts, producers, and consigliere's of The Rock Fight gather to once again rank the top outdoor brands! And this time it's all about gear.
Coming off of last months episode where they ranked the top 5 outdoor footwear brands, Colin, Justin Housman, Producer Dave, and Eoin Comerford come back together to do the same for outdoor gear. They try to learn from their missteps (try being the operative word) from the footwear episode as they take on boiling down the absolutely massive category of outdoor gear to simply the top 5 brands going in 2025.
Did they succeed? Let them know! Email your feedback to myrockfight@gmail.com.
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Episode Transcript
Colin True
00:00:00.240 - 00:02:26.394
For the last couple of weeks, we've been telling you about the growing list of brands who have committed to attend Switch Backspring, the new outdoor industry gathering for education, networking and business coming to Nashville June 16th through the 18th of this year.
It's an impressive list for sure, including some of the biggest and most beloved brands in the outdoor world, including arc'teryx, the North Face, Darn Tough Coat, Epoxy, Teva, Merrell and Rumpel.
But along with these big brands are scores of emerging and new ones to be discovered there too, like Vargo Outdoors, Ombra's armless Sunglasses, Click Heat, Drankful, Bevo, and Artelect. And guys, this is only a sampling. Tomorrow, Tuesday, February 11th, Switchback Spring will be releasing its full exhibitor list on its website.
I got a sneak peek at it and it's a variable who's who of the outdoor industry, plus a ton of brands that could just become the next big industry player.
With the growing list of committed brands and Switchback Springs emphasis on education, community and ideas, the event is shaping up to be the go to meetup for specialty retailers, brands, media and outdoor organizations. And registration is open, guys. So head over to switchbackevent.com and register today.
Check out the exhibitor list tomorrow, and be sure to save me a seat in Nashville this June. Welcome to the Rock Fight, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree.
This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True and today we are again ranking outdoor brands, with our focus today being on gear.
That's right, today is the Rock Fight's top five outdoor gear brands. But before we get to that, have you subscribed to Rock Fight's weekly newsletter?
If not, you still have time to get all that original Rock Fight content that we put in our newsletter. That's a real newsletter, real content, not just another outdoor link aggregator. Head to Rock Fight Co and click on Join the Mailing list to sign up.
If you're new around here, we'd love for you to subscribe and join the Rock Fight. I'm talking to you, you, you who haven't subscribed yet. Have you subscribed? Subscribe to the Rock Fight?
Hit the Follow button on whatever podcast app you're listening to us on. Also, give us that five star rating.
Make sure you come back to the Rock Fight this Wednesday, where Justin Hausman and I will be taking our weekly turn through the headlines that come out of the outdoor adventure community. And lastly, come back to us this Friday to hear my conversation with Peter Wickham from Tersa Solutions.
I mean, if you think you know all about the inner workings of the secondhand outdoor market, well, you definitely will after you hear the chat I had with Peter. And with that, let's start the show.
Chris DeMakes
00:02:26.482 - 00:02:30.550
Welcome to the Rock Fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Colin True
00:02:31.650 - 00:03:22.520
All right, guys, our top story today, it's our only story today. It's still brought to you by your hub for ultralight outdoor gear, Garage Grown gear.
Which is apt because I'm not sure we'll mention any of GGG brands today, but this will still easily be our most gear centric episode of 2025. Thanks to Garage Grown Gear for making this episode possible. We'll tell you guys a little bit more about them in a little bit.
But after the roaring success of assembling our top five outdoor footwear brands about a month ago, today, we're gathered to do the same for gear. That's right. We're gonna be putting together our list of the current top five gear brands in the human powered outdoor industry.
And just like last time, we've assembled the various host producers and consiglieries from across the Rock Fight universe. We have producer Dave, we have Owen Comerford, we have Justin Hausman. And let's go around the horn here real quick. Justin, let's start with you.
Do you. Why do you think or do you think that ranking gear will be any easier than ranking footwear?
Justin Housman
00:03:22.630 - 00:03:34.852
I think it'll be. My instinct is easier and I, and I was going to say because somehow it feels less subjective and I realize that doesn't make any sense at all.
So I don't know. I have stronger feelings about gear. Maybe. I don't know.
Colin True
00:03:35.036 - 00:03:39.444
Hey, Dave, how many tents have you tested so far out in the field in 2025?
Producer Dave
00:03:39.532 - 00:03:40.676
In 2025.
Colin True
00:03:40.748 - 00:03:42.548
Yeah, I mean, I know it's probably 2025.
Justin Housman
00:03:42.604 - 00:03:45.762
Yeah, yeah. You've had, you've had five weeks, so 0.
Producer Dave
00:03:45.838 - 00:03:46.180
10.
Justin Housman
00:03:46.300 - 00:03:46.644
Dave.
Colin True
00:03:46.692 - 00:03:49.880
Disqualified from this call. We had a, we had a minimum. You had to hit Dave.
Producer Dave
00:03:50.250 - 00:03:53.490
Well, you, you live in San Diego, so shut your mouth.
Justin Housman
00:03:53.650 - 00:03:57.042
I'm also, I'm also backing out of that because I haven't.
Producer Dave
00:03:57.186 - 00:04:03.910
33 degrees. No, it's not rain. It's snowing right now. Yeah, you go, you go put your tent someplace else.
Justin Housman
00:04:05.130 - 00:04:18.114
I did, I did like, like take a tent out of its, like, stuff sack last weekend to let it dry out because it just got rained on in my. Just because it's raining so much. Rain's finding its way into everything. But I took it out and I.
Colin True
00:04:18.122 - 00:04:19.710
Dried it out than you would hope it would be.
Justin Housman
00:04:20.889 - 00:04:21.249
Sure.
Producer Dave
00:04:21.289 - 00:04:21.649
Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:04:21.729 - 00:04:24.913
The hydrophobic qualities of this big Agnes was just incredible.
Colin True
00:04:24.961 - 00:04:32.149
Oh, and you're Rock Fight's most trusted lieutenant here. I mean, how did you let us do an entire outdoor footwear pod and not mention Salomon?
Eoin Comerford
00:04:32.649 - 00:04:57.182
Actually, Colin, we were testing our listeners there, really, just to see was anyone actually listening. Are they really paying attention? And kudos to you, listeners. You are paying attention and that's why you get this show.
If nobody had called us out on Salomon, we would have said, okay, nobody gives a fuck anything that we say, so we're just not going to. We're not going to do it. But. No, but you passed the test, so bravo to you.
Producer Dave
00:04:57.286 - 00:05:01.210
So what you're saying is be on the lookout for what we missed today.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:01.590 - 00:05:04.750
Oh, absolutely. I can guarantee you we'll miss something.
Colin True
00:05:04.870 - 00:05:08.398
And it too will be a test. Not at all. A glaring.
Justin Housman
00:05:08.494 - 00:05:11.326
Yeah, it's a pop quiz. Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:11.438 - 00:05:17.182
I will tell you, actually, something we mentioned in all seriousness. We have quadrupled our research budget for this particular episode.
Producer Dave
00:05:17.246 - 00:05:18.936
That's true. That's true.
Colin True
00:05:19.048 - 00:05:21.592
Do you want to reveal the numbers behind that or.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:21.776 - 00:05:27.080
Well, so the original budget was $0. So we have quadrupled that number.
Producer Dave
00:05:27.200 - 00:05:27.480
Right?
Colin True
00:05:27.520 - 00:05:28.008
Yep.
Producer Dave
00:05:28.104 - 00:05:28.408
Right?
Justin Housman
00:05:28.464 - 00:05:28.824
Yeah.
Colin True
00:05:28.872 - 00:05:33.940
I mean, you could tell me that 4 times 0 is 0, but it's still 4 more times.
Justin Housman
00:05:34.720 - 00:05:36.088
It's still 4 more 0.
Producer Dave
00:05:36.224 - 00:05:39.368
I did throw in a bag of gummy bears, but other than that.
Colin True
00:05:39.424 - 00:05:41.752
That's the good kind of Gummy bears.
Producer Dave
00:05:41.816 - 00:05:42.920
Yeah, of course. Of course.
Colin True
00:05:42.960 - 00:05:43.208
Okay.
Producer Dave
00:05:43.224 - 00:05:44.568
I don't know if they made it all the way around.
Justin Housman
00:05:44.624 - 00:05:46.660
Should we rank? Let's rank gummy bears next.
Producer Dave
00:05:47.440 - 00:05:49.208
I am down for that conversation.
Colin True
00:05:49.304 - 00:06:21.246
We did have some reader. I mean, obviously we talked a lot about our Solomon. Miss. We've mentioned that in the pod before.
And, you know, I'm happy we can reveal today that that was intentional. Like, that was great that we could do that. But the. Another one. I really do feel like we should have mentioned Brooks, which. We didn't mention Brooks.
That's the other one we did. We did have one reader email that said that these episodes are a little. A little bro y.
That we should throw a female voice into the mix when we're doing these crossover events, which, I mean, at some point I'd like to. We'll get some other folks in here eventually, but right now we're. This is. This is the. The panel we're rolling with today, guys. So.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:21.398 - 00:06:22.190
Very fair point.
Justin Housman
00:06:22.230 - 00:06:22.830
That is a Good point.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:22.870 - 00:06:26.478
And maybe, you know, somebody under the age of 40. I don't know. Crazy.
Colin True
00:06:26.574 - 00:06:28.450
Let's not get crazy, okay?
Justin Housman
00:06:29.270 - 00:06:31.022
They don't know what they're talking about.
Colin True
00:06:31.206 - 00:07:17.172
We're. All right, what are we doing today? Today we're going to create a list of the current top five outdoor, foot. Outdoor. I'm going to say footwear again.
Outdoor gear brands. So we are treating gear and accessories as different. So there'll be some gray that we're working in.
Things like, we're looking more things at, like backpacks, sleeping bags, stoves, and water filters. Those will fall in, I'm sure. Water bottles, coolers, which I know we're going to talk about in a second. Camp chairs.
We're going to probably put more in the accessory camp and we'll do an accessory episode. Eventually we're going to be ranking the brand, not a product. The brands must be known for gear first.
Maybe this is the time to actually have this conversation. I think when we're looking at a brand like the North Face in Patagonia, both of whom make gear, but when you think of them, you think apparel first.
At least I do. I think maybe it opens up to the room.
Producer Dave
00:07:17.196 - 00:07:48.952
But I would like to offer an effort at distinction between what we're talking about. Right, so gear brands are core equipment. They're necessary for the primary activity. Right.
And so you're talking about your tents, your backpacks, your harnesses, your skis. Well, we're not doing skis, kayaks, things like that. Like, that's the gear where accessories are complementary to the activity. Not essential.
Always important, but not essential. So that would be the gloves and the socks and the water poles.
Colin True
00:07:49.096 - 00:07:54.360
Socks are essential. How do you say socks aren't essential? They're still an accessory in your.
Producer Dave
00:07:54.400 - 00:07:56.920
In your Tevas or your. Your bedrocks.
Justin Housman
00:07:57.000 - 00:08:00.184
Well, then, in that case, Colin, don't open. Why are you opening this door? Because now it's like.
Producer Dave
00:08:00.192 - 00:08:14.350
Well, I'm just throwing this out there as a way to distinguish you guys with that. Now, obviously, the overlap, let that begin. But just in terms of that trying to true north. It's that primary activity. Right? That's the.
Justin Housman
00:08:14.650 - 00:08:15.586
I agree with that.
Colin True
00:08:15.658 - 00:08:18.562
Okay, so then do we need to include a brand like a yeti?
Producer Dave
00:08:18.626 - 00:08:21.390
I'm not including anybody in this right now. I'm just saying.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:22.810 - 00:08:25.110
Are you gonna go car camping without a cooler?
Justin Housman
00:08:25.610 - 00:08:27.298
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Producer Dave
00:08:27.474 - 00:08:31.874
How many times have I done. Yeti's a tough one without a cooler is the question. Right?
Justin Housman
00:08:31.962 - 00:08:34.354
You can. You definitely can.
Colin True
00:08:34.522 - 00:08:37.319
All you really need is a Car, right? You're car camping.
Justin Housman
00:08:37.399 - 00:08:42.471
I wouldn't. I absolutely wouldn't. But you definitely can. But you could also go camping without a stove.
Producer Dave
00:08:42.535 - 00:08:48.499
Can you buy a cooler that also doesn't have a whole run of YouTube videos attached to it?
Justin Housman
00:08:48.799 - 00:08:54.567
Oh, not anymore. Just a Styrofoam ones on the top of the freezer section at your local grocery store.
Colin True
00:08:54.743 - 00:09:03.099
I think we should consider coolers and yeti. We should save that for the accessory conversation. If for no other reason, it makes the accessory conversation that much more interesting.
Eoin Comerford
00:09:03.430 - 00:09:10.910
Well, yeah. And especially since they actually do more in drinkware than they do in coolers. And drinkware, I would agree, is an accessory right now.
Colin True
00:09:10.950 - 00:09:20.286
What about on the apparel side with like a brand like the North Face or Patagonia? I do think both of them we should. I understand North Face still makes tents. Patagonia makes.
Justin Housman
00:09:20.438 - 00:09:22.450
Patagonia barely makes gear.
Eoin Comerford
00:09:22.790 - 00:09:25.290
It's the Black Hole duffel and that's it. Really?
Justin Housman
00:09:25.830 - 00:09:30.350
Yeah. I mean, their sleeping bag that they made a few years ago is my all time favorite sleeping bag, but they don't make it anymore.
Colin True
00:09:30.430 - 00:09:33.294
So we're so North Face Patagonia out for this conversation?
Eoin Comerford
00:09:33.422 - 00:09:34.398
I think so.
Colin True
00:09:34.534 - 00:09:40.050
And what about, what about. I think the other two brands on that list would be Marmot and Mountain Hardware.
Justin Housman
00:09:40.710 - 00:09:41.118
Same.
Colin True
00:09:41.174 - 00:09:41.770
Really?
Justin Housman
00:09:43.030 - 00:09:43.406
Okay.
Colin True
00:09:43.438 - 00:09:49.886
Because Marmot does make apparel. I would never buy their apparel, but I would happily buy one of their sleeping bags and they're.
Eoin Comerford
00:09:49.918 - 00:09:59.598
Or their tents. Yeah, yeah. And Mountain Hardware, I mean, Mountain Hardware has a full, pretty full line of gear.
I mean they've got sleeping bags, they've got tents, they've got. I think they've got packs.
Producer Dave
00:09:59.694 - 00:10:04.834
I think on the 12 person dome tent, Hardware gets a pass. Just on that.
Colin True
00:10:04.922 - 00:10:06.674
Just the legacy one, the one set.
Justin Housman
00:10:06.682 - 00:10:07.762
Up at all just on that.
Producer Dave
00:10:07.866 - 00:10:10.962
That thing is a base camp in a box right there.
Justin Housman
00:10:11.146 - 00:10:25.282
The problem is I tend to forget about that, but I bet you I wouldn't if I was a hardcore climber. I mean, they do. They make some nice climbing packs.
I've had a couple Mountain Hardware tents that I was not impressed with, but I haven't had one in a few years and they do, they have made very good sleeping bags in the past.
Colin True
00:10:25.306 - 00:10:25.394
So.
Justin Housman
00:10:25.402 - 00:10:31.858
Yeah, they probably should be. They should. I wouldn't. Yeah, they probably should be. But I do think of them more as an apparel brand for whatever reason.
Colin True
00:10:31.914 - 00:10:57.790
All right, so in the first decision, that's definitely going to annoy some of our listeners. We're going to keep North Face and Patagonia out. But Mountain Hardware and Marmot are in. So that's.
There's your first chance to write an email to myrockfightmail.com and tell us why you're angry about this list.
Other brands, though, like gci, Stanley, Solo Stove, I mean, those all feel either accessory or more, you know, backyard kind of stuff than maybe what we're talking about here.
Eoin Comerford
00:10:57.910 - 00:10:58.810
I would agree.
Justin Housman
00:10:59.910 - 00:11:12.442
Yes. Yes. Sorry. I for some reason confuse biolite and Solo Stove sometimes. I have no idea why.
Well, because biolite started out making stoves and so that's, that's why. But now they make some of my favorite headlamps. I was going to push back for a split second, but never mind.
Colin True
00:11:12.546 - 00:12:56.496
All right, so with that in mind, we have a list of 20 brands that we're going to discuss. And we some of these brands we mentioned that are not going to be on.
We have more than 20 brands, but we're going to eliminate some of the brands we just talked about. We've updated the criteria since the footwear episode to be more about the top brands by category revenue.
So we, Owen has provided some, some information so we can kind of see the brands on the list. So less likely that we're going to be there's going to be an egregious oversight. But if you do feel like we've missed one, let us know.
We want to hear about it. And our goal is to go through the list, assemble a top five, and we'll go through each brand, designate them as again, green.
That means they're in yellow maybe, or red, as in just straight out. And then we'll go back and debate the greens and the yellows to form our list of five.
And again, to the listener, we acknowledge we might miss some things here. From here on out, this will be known as the Solomon Corollary.
Send us the most glaring omissions to myrockvitegmail.com and given that Garage Growing Gear is a Rockfight partner, that we recognize that there are hundreds of amazing and cool brands out there. But we don't have eight hours to do a podcast about all of them.
So a good rule of thumb is to kind of, when push comes to shove, would you stock this in your store? I still feel like that's going to apply here when we're having these debates.
And before we get started, last thing you know, Garage Grown Gear looking to lighten your load? Garage Grown Gear is your go to Hub for ultralight backpacking gear from the coolest small brands out there.
If you're through hiking or overnighting, backpacking is more Comfortable when you are carrying less weight. And with free shipping on orders over $50, GGG makes lightening your pack an easy and fun experience.
Check out the most specialty of specialty shops@garagegrowngear.com and that link is also in our show notes. Any. Any words for Lloyd before we embark on talking A lot of brands that he doesn't sell. Should we. That we want to.
Justin Housman
00:12:56.568 - 00:13:03.010
Well, well, let's not say that for sure because I'm looking through right now to see if there's any brands that are on here that he sells.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:03.590 - 00:13:06.062
He does actually sell some of these on here.
Justin Housman
00:13:06.246 - 00:13:07.518
Oh, yep, he does.
Colin True
00:13:07.574 - 00:13:14.490
Okay. Well, there you go. I take it all back. Buy some of the brands you heard on this podcast over at GGG and get free shipping if it's over $50.
Producer Dave
00:13:14.790 - 00:13:15.166
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:15.198 - 00:13:19.050
Because some of the ultralight tents some of these brands make.
Colin True
00:13:19.590 - 00:13:36.974
All right, so let's get into our list. So number 20 on the list is Rumple. No offense to Josh and Wiley who were on not that long ago.
I think when you're looking at this list, looking towards our top five gear brands, it's probably just an automatic red, but I don't want to step on you guys. What do you guys think?
Producer Dave
00:13:37.062 - 00:13:41.246
I would say, how did that slip into the gear conversation and not be completely.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:41.438 - 00:13:45.170
It's used as a sleep system by ultralight backpackers.
Justin Housman
00:13:46.230 - 00:13:49.278
I've used Rumple as my only sleep system before.
Producer Dave
00:13:49.414 - 00:13:50.782
I'm just going to push back.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:50.886 - 00:13:52.938
I think, regardless. It's regular.
Producer Dave
00:13:53.064 - 00:13:54.582
Yeah, it's a blanket.
Colin True
00:13:54.646 - 00:13:55.846
Well, we could swap them out.
Producer Dave
00:13:55.918 - 00:13:56.966
And it's red.
Justin Housman
00:13:57.118 - 00:13:58.934
It's red. No, we just.
Producer Dave
00:13:59.022 - 00:14:05.862
We just took out the North Face for that. And we did Blanket. A cool blanket.
Colin True
00:14:06.006 - 00:14:06.470
All right.
Producer Dave
00:14:06.510 - 00:14:07.894
A very cool blanket.
Colin True
00:14:07.942 - 00:14:10.742
Dave, the Portland police are going to come get you soon. You got to be careful.
Producer Dave
00:14:10.886 - 00:14:13.206
They are. I realize I'm actually in hiding now.
Justin Housman
00:14:13.278 - 00:14:25.786
That does sound like Ed Veasters would not have Rubble on his list and he would have North Face on his list for sure. But I have never used a North Face gear product, but I have definitely used only Rumpels in my like.
Producer Dave
00:14:25.938 - 00:14:29.466
Well, it belongs in the accessory. A wonderful accessory.
Colin True
00:14:29.578 - 00:14:40.938
If we were going to swap it out, the contenders to take our spot would be Leki or Leki, however you want to pronounce it. Dometic or Katadyne. So if you think one of those are more worthy of getting a red on this list.
Justin Housman
00:14:41.074 - 00:14:41.434
None.
Producer Dave
00:14:41.482 - 00:14:43.418
Honestly, none of those are going to be as well.
Justin Housman
00:14:43.474 - 00:14:43.754
Yeah.
Producer Dave
00:14:43.802 - 00:14:44.390
Right.
Colin True
00:14:44.930 - 00:14:48.538
So we're going to go for the cool points. The cool Portland Points and have rumbles. Number 20.
Producer Dave
00:14:48.594 - 00:14:49.578
All right, cool.
Colin True
00:14:49.594 - 00:14:50.790
We talked Dave into it.
Justin Housman
00:14:52.890 - 00:14:54.242
What, is Rumpel in Portland now?
Eoin Comerford
00:14:54.266 - 00:14:56.002
Yeah, always been.
Justin Housman
00:14:56.106 - 00:14:57.666
I thought they started in San Francisco.
Colin True
00:14:57.698 - 00:14:58.898
Look at you, just trying to claim.
Producer Dave
00:14:58.954 - 00:14:59.954
Where their money comes from.
Justin Housman
00:15:00.042 - 00:15:02.978
No, they had. They had an office in San Francisco on Market Street.
Colin True
00:15:03.034 - 00:15:05.218
Dave's culture is not your costume, Justin. All right.
Producer Dave
00:15:05.274 - 00:15:09.874
I think. I think there was a little citizenship going on there in its early days.
Colin True
00:15:10.042 - 00:15:15.138
All right, number 19 on the list is Deuter. What are we gonna say about do it? I like Deuter. I've had a bunch of Deuter packs that I really.
Justin Housman
00:15:15.194 - 00:15:17.554
Very good kids backpack. Very good backpacks for babies.
Colin True
00:15:17.602 - 00:15:17.916
Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:15:17.978 - 00:15:18.920
Like to put a big.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:19.040 - 00:15:27.240
The. The reality is a Deuter makes a lovely backpack, but their business in the US is. Is primarily kid carriers. That.
That's what really drives their business.
Colin True
00:15:27.360 - 00:15:28.888
So Auto Red.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:29.024 - 00:15:31.048
Yeah. I don't know.
Producer Dave
00:15:31.104 - 00:15:32.700
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Justin Housman
00:15:33.200 - 00:15:35.160
I would have rubble before I'd have Deuter.
Colin True
00:15:35.240 - 00:15:36.184
Wow. Wow.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:36.312 - 00:15:38.424
Those poor Germans, right?
Justin Housman
00:15:38.512 - 00:15:45.874
Yeah, I think they are German. And speaking of which, you will see them all over the place in Europe. That's like all you're going to see. Yeah, but. Yeah, I agree.
Colin True
00:15:46.042 - 00:15:49.390
All right, Red. Sea to summit. Number 18.
Justin Housman
00:15:50.090 - 00:15:50.802
Green.
Colin True
00:15:50.946 - 00:15:52.706
Auto green, not yellow. You want to go green.
Justin Housman
00:15:52.738 - 00:16:16.640
I just. I just. I just love See to Summit products so much.
I realize that that isn't necessarily the thrust of this conversation, but, like, just in terms of, like, overall quality, thoughtfulness behind what? The stuff that they make. They make such a. Like a. I don't know. Nobody else on this brand or on this list is going to make a wide.
Such a wide range of things. I mean, see, I have. I have surfboard racks that are Sea to Summit. I have some of my favorite sleeping bags in tents are Sea to Summit.
I mean, they make so much incredible stuff.
Colin True
00:16:16.720 - 00:16:23.168
Yeah. It's funny, I did think of them in, like, my. My gut when I saw the name was more accessories, but then you got to remember, no, they do make tents.
They do make. They make.
Justin Housman
00:16:23.304 - 00:16:35.232
They make some of the. Some of the best, like OG ultralight sleeping bags or the, like the Spark See to Summit Spark. That is such a good. Such a good sleeping bag.
I mean, they're legit. They make tents that are phenomenal, too. They're great.
Colin True
00:16:35.336 - 00:16:39.776
We can put them at green. I mean, we're not doing this right if we don't end up with more than five greens. Right. To go back into bay.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:39.808 - 00:16:53.276
So, I mean, they're. I think it's a great, great brand that. Lots of product from a volume perspective.
They don't obviously maybe fit the bill, but they're definitely worthy of being in the conversation.
Producer Dave
00:16:53.388 - 00:17:00.800
I would just say that their name is Sea to Summit. That is one of the most literal naming conventions you can have. Definitely belong in the gear.
Colin True
00:17:01.140 - 00:17:04.960
It's so totally Dave bringing the heat.
Justin Housman
00:17:05.700 - 00:17:09.340
Shout out to Australia. They're a Western Australia brand. I mean, that's pretty cool.
Colin True
00:17:09.460 - 00:17:13.676
That gives them like cool points alone because everything from Australia is cool, especially when you're an American. So.
Justin Housman
00:17:13.748 - 00:17:18.824
All right, well, yeah, and then from the, from West Australia, which is like even cooler. They're not from Sydney.
Colin True
00:17:18.872 - 00:17:29.288
Okay, we got back to back. The next two are going to definitely spark some debate. We have number 17. We have mountain Hardware.
I mean, I think it's kind of an I to our earlier thing. I think it's kind of almost auto green, but I mean, definitely yellow. It's not red.
Producer Dave
00:17:29.344 - 00:17:32.140
Dome tent. Just saying dome tent.
Eoin Comerford
00:17:34.080 - 00:17:35.096
Okay, I'll give it yellow.
Justin Housman
00:17:35.128 - 00:17:39.368
Yeah, I guess. I, I, I know it's not going to be in the top five, so. Whoa.
Eoin Comerford
00:17:39.464 - 00:17:40.100
Fair.
Justin Housman
00:17:40.560 - 00:17:41.540
Let's start.
Eoin Comerford
00:17:42.410 - 00:17:44.114
There's a lot of good, good gear brands.
Colin True
00:17:44.162 - 00:17:44.770
I wish it was.
Justin Housman
00:17:44.810 - 00:17:46.818
I mean, I have a soft spot for Mountain Hardware.
Colin True
00:17:46.834 - 00:17:48.470
They're local to me, I guess a generation.
Justin Housman
00:17:49.370 - 00:17:56.130
A lot of their stuff I really like a lot. But again, I'm not, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't stock them. Like that wouldn't be, that wouldn't be like a go to any.
Colin True
00:17:56.170 - 00:17:59.906
You talked their apparel first. So should we have just, should we have punted them?
Justin Housman
00:17:59.978 - 00:18:08.972
No, I don't even think I would stock their apparel, to be honest, at this point. Again. But I'm also not a climber. I do feel like they are a bit more climbing oriented, or at least they used to be. But they wouldn't be my go to.
Colin True
00:18:08.996 - 00:18:49.354
For more alpinism than like, than rock climbing. Right. I think. Yeah, they're kind of right there. I guess they become the.
When you're making the, you know, your Patagonian North Face sort of open to buy. Like, how much do you want to give the hardware as sort of an alternative to that grouping? I think. But let's make them yellow.
We'll come back to them because the next one is a. I'm curious what everybody's going to say here about Marmot. Because we talked about.
I can't remember if we said this before we hit recorder on the mic. I look at Marmot. I know they're an apparel brand, but I, I would never buy their apparel, but I would Absolutely. Buy some of their gear.
I just think, you know, I've had Marmot sleeping bags. They've been great. They just, there's kind of like just a step back to our footwear conversation.
They're kind of a steady Eddie when it comes to things like, you know, sleeping bags. So what do you guys think?
Eoin Comerford
00:18:49.442 - 00:18:57.818
Have used their tents? Limestone. I mean, they. Solid products. Maybe not the most exciting, I would say, but. Solid.
Colin True
00:18:57.914 - 00:18:58.666
Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:18:58.858 - 00:19:10.644
Like so much of my, of my rankings for these things are things I'd be like, that I would be like happy to get one. Like if, like, if something shows up at my door and I'm like, oh, cool, I get to review this.
And like, I can't think of a single thing for Marmot that would make me feel this way.
Producer Dave
00:19:10.812 - 00:19:13.732
I'm neutral on this. I mean, they have sleeping bags, they have tents.
Colin True
00:19:13.876 - 00:19:17.396
The point of the exercise is to not be neutral. David, is that.
Justin Housman
00:19:17.468 - 00:19:20.436
Is what I just said mean? I mean, I don't mean it to like, it's.
Colin True
00:19:20.468 - 00:19:24.356
I'm not a zombie brand. I think, I think we can be any more.
Justin Housman
00:19:24.508 - 00:19:30.640
But I just, like, I don't like, it's like, I don't like. If you work for Marmot and you design their products. Like, it's not like a. I'm not.
Colin True
00:19:30.940 - 00:19:37.044
If you work for Marmot, then. And Newell is signing your con. Your, Your paychecks. You're already, you know, you know, understand this conversation.
Producer Dave
00:19:37.092 - 00:19:43.160
But look, they sell thousand dollar sub. 40, you know, sleeping bags. That's, that's not a casual.
Justin Housman
00:19:43.660 - 00:19:44.468
No, I know.
Producer Dave
00:19:44.524 - 00:19:45.908
Yeah, casual item.
Colin True
00:19:46.004 - 00:19:50.548
So are they yellow or are they red though? Is really the, the debate here. So we're not going to make them auto green, I don't think.
Producer Dave
00:19:50.604 - 00:19:52.468
All right, I'm gonna go yellow because it's nice.
Justin Housman
00:19:52.484 - 00:19:54.004
The yellow feels right. Yellow feels right.
Colin True
00:19:54.012 - 00:19:55.652
All right. It's a win for you, Marmot. You're a yellow.
Justin Housman
00:19:55.716 - 00:19:59.208
And do you love marmots as the animal too? I mean, that's.
Eoin Comerford
00:19:59.384 - 00:20:11.320
So let me ask you though, Colin, your, your zombie brand designation, are you, are you saving that just for the apparel side of their business or. It's a zombie brand? Is a zombie brand.
Justin Housman
00:20:11.360 - 00:20:12.040
It's a zombie brand.
Colin True
00:20:12.080 - 00:20:34.680
No, it's a good question. I think it's, it's across the board, but I think these are kind of like I think we talked about with Chaco. I think there's.
I look at them as sort of a zombie brand, but I also would completely put them in my store. I don't, I think when we get to the end. I don't think Marmot's gonna be a green. I don't think they're even gonna.
They would sniff the top five, but I also don't think you can not talk about them in that way that you would definitely consider bringing them into your shop.
Eoin Comerford
00:20:34.840 - 00:20:45.560
Even a small gear shop probably is going to have a hundred gear brands. Right. So it's not like we're saying that you could buy these five brands and have enough brands for your store. It's just these are the top five.
Colin True
00:20:45.680 - 00:20:46.824
The top five, right.
Eoin Comerford
00:20:46.912 - 00:20:47.784
Yeah. Right.
Colin True
00:20:47.872 - 00:21:02.468
Well, let's move into the next one, which is kind of interesting, which is mountain safety research. Msr, a kind of sea to summit. In a way. We're known for stoves mostly, but they also make snowshoes. They make all sorts of stuff. Right.
Don't they also also make their own lineup, their sleep systems and things as well?
Eoin Comerford
00:21:02.604 - 00:21:05.428
So water filtration system. Yeah, they have good water is pretty big.
Justin Housman
00:21:05.484 - 00:21:06.052
Yeah.
Colin True
00:21:06.196 - 00:21:09.316
I think they're. You're gonna have MSR right in your shop.
Justin Housman
00:21:09.348 - 00:21:14.880
I have a lot of MSR stuff in my, in my garage and I. That makes it with me to the backcountry a lot for sure.
Eoin Comerford
00:21:15.420 - 00:21:28.210
Yeah. And they're. They're tents too, you know. Oh, that's right. And they've been fair.
They've been pretty innovative over the years as well in terms of, you know, carbon fiber tent poles and all kinds of good stuff.
Justin Housman
00:21:28.380 - 00:21:29.702
I forgot about how good their tents are.
Eoin Comerford
00:21:29.726 - 00:21:30.454
They're in the conversation.
Justin Housman
00:21:30.502 - 00:21:42.290
Their tents are really good. The. What is it called? The access.
I've had a couple of their four season tents that are really light, like a light four season tent, which is, which is not super easy to make. And it's good.
Colin True
00:21:42.910 - 00:21:52.262
Dave, when we saw them at Outdoor Market Alliance, Media day, whatever it was last summer, didn't they have sort of what they kind of starting to figure out their own sort of jet wheel? Oh, they have one.
Justin Housman
00:21:52.366 - 00:21:53.862
The wind burner. Yeah, the wind burner.
Colin True
00:21:53.926 - 00:21:54.726
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Justin Housman
00:21:54.758 - 00:21:55.398
It's great.
Producer Dave
00:21:55.534 - 00:21:56.950
So I honestly put these.
Colin True
00:21:56.990 - 00:21:57.286
Okay.
Producer Dave
00:21:57.318 - 00:22:01.586
But they're quintessential gear brand. I, I just, I think they're solid.
Justin Housman
00:22:01.778 - 00:22:03.042
They're Washington. Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:22:03.146 - 00:22:06.098
Well, they're part of cdmsr. Cascade Designs.
Justin Housman
00:22:06.274 - 00:22:06.866
That's right.
Eoin Comerford
00:22:06.938 - 00:22:22.350
Yeah. It also includes Therm. A rest would be the other big brand under that umbrella.
But they've also got like Platypus and I think Sea lion and a few others that are in. Don't forget we're talking brands here, not parents. But you know, they're tents like the Hubba Hubba series.
Justin Housman
00:22:23.210 - 00:22:24.322
Yeah, that's a good tent.
Eoin Comerford
00:22:24.386 - 00:22:24.866
Yeah.
Colin True
00:22:24.978 - 00:22:33.090
All right, so I made MSR auto green. They're green there. So we have two green so far. Sea to Summit and MSR are green. And we're number at number Coleman.
Justin Housman
00:22:34.150 - 00:22:37.050
Just. Just flaming red. Just so red.
Colin True
00:22:38.230 - 00:22:40.410
So red. You're so red.
Eoin Comerford
00:22:40.950 - 00:22:55.150
No, no, it's just. No, I actually, I mean, when I, before I got into the industry, I, I must admit, I, that I, I, I had a Coleman tent. That was my car camping tent.
Was, you know, before I got probably religion.
Justin Housman
00:22:55.230 - 00:22:56.686
He's not dead. He's still here.
Eoin Comerford
00:22:56.758 - 00:23:04.380
Yeah, right. It was great. It was a massive eight person tent for a family of four and it was wonderful.
Justin Housman
00:23:04.960 - 00:23:05.336
Yeah.
Colin True
00:23:05.368 - 00:23:33.304
I mean, in Coleman you got to give them, you got to at least have to mention Justin and I have talked about it over on Gear and Beer, the other podcast we've done about their lanterns and the sort of like the collectors who are literally go looking for old school Coleman lanterns and have little collections of them and stuff like that. It's a legacy product. Legacy brand. The flip side of the, would you carry this in the store?
It's like if you walked in a store and they didn't have Coleman, you wouldn't be like, oh my God, where's your Coleman stuff at all? You know, that would be awesome.
Eoin Comerford
00:23:33.352 - 00:23:51.256
Not at all. Not, not. No, not in a. I mean, Moose Jaw. We never, we didn't carry Coleman until maybe the very, very end.
And then they had, they had like an upper level tent line that we picked up on, but no Coleman for, for specialty outdoor.
Justin Housman
00:23:51.368 - 00:24:04.036
No, they do make good stuff. I mean, the, the, My lantern's phenomenal. Their st great. Like, I mean, I'm sure they have to be like the most, the best selling, like Camp stove.
I'd be shocked if they weren't. And they're very good for car camping.
Colin True
00:24:04.068 - 00:24:04.276
Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:24:04.308 - 00:24:14.080
But like, I just would never, I mean, even though I know it would work great and it's probably less expensive, I'd still get something from like Camp Chef or Everest or I, I'd get a different brand for really no reason.
Colin True
00:24:14.700 - 00:24:25.846
Well, and to your point about the tent you had, you know, Owen, about all of these, none of this is a judgment on the quality of any of the gear of the brands we're talking about. Right. We, we all, the, what we all say relentlessly on the show is everybody makes stuff. It works really, really well.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:25.988 - 00:24:26.290
Right.
Colin True
00:24:26.330 - 00:24:30.674
So this is truly more of a brand and a positioning conversation more than it is Anything else?
Eoin Comerford
00:24:30.802 - 00:24:35.218
So yeah, and to, to your point, Justin, that is when I go to current company, it is a Coleman.
Justin Housman
00:24:35.234 - 00:24:35.426
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:35.458 - 00:24:35.714
Stove.
Justin Housman
00:24:35.762 - 00:24:36.178
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:36.274 - 00:24:37.186
Classic Coleman stove.
Colin True
00:24:37.218 - 00:24:38.434
I have a Coleman stove. Yep.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:38.482 - 00:24:39.266
Yeah.
Colin True
00:24:39.458 - 00:25:05.136
All right. Number 13, Camelback. Now there was a time when Camelback would have been the greenest of greens.
I feel like they were like the early mid-2000s, just 2010s between the invention of the, the hydration pack or, or the popularization of the hydration pack at the very least along with then they were probably the, the next big bottle brand after Nalgene had sort of like had their, their time. That was the flip bite valve bottles were huge for a long time.
Eoin Comerford
00:25:05.208 - 00:25:05.536
Right.
Colin True
00:25:05.608 - 00:25:11.552
Yeah. But you know, I don't know about Camelback today. I'm curious. What do you guys think about Camelback?
Justin Housman
00:25:11.696 - 00:25:28.626
My, My impression is aren't they on the like a pretty big downswing? I mean just business wise, generally speaking.
I used to have a neighbor who was a designer there and he was talking about how they were moving, you know, because they're not in Northern California anymore. They're moving. A lot of people did like Costa Mesa or something. Irvine, somewhere down south.
Colin True
00:25:28.778 - 00:25:30.770
Well, they're kind of caught in that whole revelation.
Justin Housman
00:25:30.850 - 00:25:41.122
Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. And he kind of had, he just felt like there wasn't a lot of innovation going on.
So I mean he left before that even happened and he was a designer. But there's stuff, I mean their stuff is good. Like you see, you know, it's fine.
Colin True
00:25:41.186 - 00:25:54.906
It's kind of like Marmot being owned by Newell in a way. Right. It's kind of like how probably the bad ownership is really. Well, sorry, maybe less inspiring.
Ownership is sort of as taking its toll on a brand that was at one point pretty dominant.
Producer Dave
00:25:55.018 - 00:26:09.114
Yeah. And I think again the category, it's. They make packs, not backpack, you know, like, like not, not technical gear in that required.
They've coolers and drinkware and it's just very accessory. Just very.
Justin Housman
00:26:09.202 - 00:26:15.290
Well, they're. Yeah. I mean their hydration packs are like every. You. They. It was one thing when they were the only ones that made them, but.
Producer Dave
00:26:15.410 - 00:26:15.834
Right.
Justin Housman
00:26:15.922 - 00:26:19.146
There's just, there's kind of no reason to get a Camelback versus like a Hydro.
Eoin Comerford
00:26:19.258 - 00:26:21.994
There's other, other players that would cover that category.
Justin Housman
00:26:22.042 - 00:26:22.572
Yeah.
Producer Dave
00:26:22.706 - 00:26:27.080
Again, it's more complementary. It's not primary. Right. It's just more complementary.
Colin True
00:26:27.240 - 00:26:31.992
They have a pretty big military business too, which I imagine is probably what's keeping them where they are.
Justin Housman
00:26:32.016 - 00:26:32.616
Yeah, good point.
Colin True
00:26:32.688 - 00:26:46.168
I would think we also didn't mention. We're not. We aren't. We should have said at the top. We are not talking about like skiing and biking and all. We are definitely going.
You couldn't tell by now. We are firmly in the kind of more camping, you know, hiking kind of side of the. Of the industry here.
Justin Housman
00:26:46.304 - 00:26:48.296
Yeah. Oh, you already put them in red. Okay.
Colin True
00:26:48.328 - 00:26:49.080
Yeah, they're red.
Producer Dave
00:26:49.200 - 00:26:53.170
Next on Rock Fight, is snowboarding a sport right there?
Colin True
00:26:54.030 - 00:26:57.170
That's. I happily comment on that.
Producer Dave
00:26:57.550 - 00:26:59.250
There we go. Right?
Colin True
00:27:00.270 - 00:27:09.190
Number 12 on the list, Petzl. Now, Petzl's an interesting one, right, because that's a climbing brand, but also they make headlamps and they make a lot of different things.
So how do you guys feel about Petzl?
Producer Dave
00:27:09.270 - 00:27:13.142
I'm on Team Petzl. I think it's.
Eoin Comerford
00:27:13.206 - 00:27:13.894
I think it's gear.
Justin Housman
00:27:13.942 - 00:27:15.094
Would you like to expand on that, Dave?
Producer Dave
00:27:15.142 - 00:27:15.910
No, not really.
Eoin Comerford
00:27:15.950 - 00:27:16.850
Yes, please.
Producer Dave
00:27:17.790 - 00:27:23.046
I want to say Petzel. I want to say that they fun name, illuminate the conversation. I just want to keep running with that.
Justin Housman
00:27:23.118 - 00:27:28.946
You know what? But turn it. Can you turn his mic and yours off too? Actually, Owen and I will handle the rest of this.
Producer Dave
00:27:29.098 - 00:27:30.402
That's probably a good idea.
Eoin Comerford
00:27:30.466 - 00:27:37.350
I would. You know, I mean, Petzl, the. It's definitely a gear brand. There's no doubt about that. I mean, they make some obviously core.
Justin Housman
00:27:41.850 - 00:27:43.350
They do have a business license.
Eoin Comerford
00:27:44.170 - 00:27:55.326
But no, I mean, it's a core gear brand, the Grigri and all the product. And they have had some innovations over the years. I will tell you that They've become more and more a headlamp brand over the last decade.
Justin Housman
00:27:55.438 - 00:27:56.650
That's how I think of them.
Eoin Comerford
00:27:57.670 - 00:28:02.862
If I had to guess, Headlamps is at least a third of their business today, at least in the US market.
Colin True
00:28:03.046 - 00:28:25.358
But I would say they probably should be green for exactly what you just said.
Because if you're going to again, stocking your shelves, you're going to want Headlamps and you probably would have BD and a few other brands, maybe headlamps along with Petzl. But even if you're not a huge climbing store, you would want to sell a Gris Gris.
You would want to have a couple climbing items, basic climbing items for people. You know, there's going to the rock gym, things like that. There's some crossover there that you probably would want to have in your shop.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:25.534 - 00:28:26.222
There's another.
Colin True
00:28:26.326 - 00:28:27.294
They should be green.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:27.422 - 00:28:36.970
They should be green. But I think ultimately there's going to be another bigger brand that's also in climbing and Headlamps.
That's going to knock them off the list, but sure, let's. Yeah, let's give them green them up.
Colin True
00:28:37.670 - 00:28:39.166
And Dave already endorsed them, so.
Producer Dave
00:28:39.238 - 00:28:41.570
That's exactly right. I mean, for the helmets.
Colin True
00:28:43.190 - 00:28:45.530
All right, we made it to Thermo rest at number 11.
Justin Housman
00:28:46.400 - 00:28:53.020
I think they got to be green, too. I mean, because you're gonna have. Are you gonna have thermal rest in your store?
Colin True
00:28:53.360 - 00:28:56.100
Well, if you're only going to carry one pad, what's it going to be?
Eoin Comerford
00:28:57.040 - 00:28:57.768
It's got to be.
Justin Housman
00:28:57.824 - 00:29:07.576
It's got. Yeah, I was gonna say, I mean, they make. They make the best lightweight pad in the world, the Neo. What is it? It's Neo something X. Neo Air.
God, that thing's good.
Eoin Comerford
00:29:07.648 - 00:29:12.818
And I would say, you know, they've been one of the more innovative pad companies too, over the years.
Justin Housman
00:29:12.874 - 00:29:17.906
And their sleeping bags, if they still make them. They've made them for a while, are really good too. I don't know if they still do.
Colin True
00:29:18.058 - 00:29:22.434
Yeah. And what other brand on this list is like the Kleenex of its of a category?
Justin Housman
00:29:22.482 - 00:29:23.170
Yeah, good point.
Colin True
00:29:23.210 - 00:29:26.990
Like, do you have a third? Are you going backpacking? Get your therm a rest. It may not even be therm a rest. Right.
Producer Dave
00:29:27.530 - 00:29:29.234
Is it gear or is it an accessory?
Justin Housman
00:29:29.282 - 00:29:32.750
That's gear. That's one of the big. I mean, sleep system. That's a big three.
Eoin Comerford
00:29:33.370 - 00:30:01.326
Yeah.
And I think as we get to the top five here, I think we're going to be forced into scenarios where we have to pick between brands that are kind of in the same category. Yeah, right. And so like, you know, Therm A Rest vs Exped is an example. They both do other things, but big, big pad brands.
And I think that there'll be that conversation to a degree, but it's definitely a green and is worthy of being in that group in my mind.
Colin True
00:30:01.478 - 00:30:52.674
All right, so we're at the top 10 and we've got four greens. Our greens right now are Sea to Summit, MSR Petzl and Thermarest.
We have two yellows in Mountain Hardware and Marmot and then Camelback, Coleman, Deuter and Rumpel we have in red. So we have 10 to go. We already have four greens and two yellows. And to your point, there's gonna.
We're about to have some redundancy here with a couple of brands we talked about which might, just might swap places. But we're definitely. It's gonna get a little more interesting here as we get through the last 10 and the number.
And at number 10 we have Gregory Now I. Gregory, back in the Dana design days of the 90s was like, are you a Gregory person or a Dana person? And I loved Gregory packs then.
I don't really know their relevance in the world of Osprey, like how well they do anymore. Clearly they're still on the list, so they're doing something, especially Owen and Justin. What do you guys think of Gregory these days?
Justin Housman
00:30:52.762 - 00:30:53.154
I don't.
Eoin Comerford
00:30:53.202 - 00:31:32.884
I mean, they make a solid pack, but I mean, so much of it and so many of these things does come back to ownership. I mean, now they're owned by Samsonite. Okay.
Most of the innovation from what I can see in the last little while since the acquisition was, was them bringing in more travel products, like hard side travel cases. It was like, okay, hard. Yeah, I mean, I get, you know, I get travel backpacks and that sort of thing.
And you know, like, I love my, my Osprey travel product. But yeah, I, I'd put. I'd give them a yellow.
Justin Housman
00:31:33.012 - 00:31:35.450
I would, I would, I would go straight red card.
Colin True
00:31:35.580 - 00:31:40.810
Well, I guess. Do you. Would you put Deuter vs. Gregory? Who you bringing in? Because we gave Deuter a straight red.
Eoin Comerford
00:31:41.350 - 00:31:42.286
Well, that's fair.
Justin Housman
00:31:42.358 - 00:31:51.290
I mean, between the two, I'd bring in Gregory myself, but I'd still. I'd put. I'd give both of them red. I wouldn't. I mean, if I had to pick between the two, I'd probably pick Gregory. But.
Eoin Comerford
00:31:53.510 - 00:31:57.870
The point of yellow is just sort of like a first runner up kind of scenario.
Colin True
00:31:57.950 - 00:32:11.500
Yeah, we might, we might want to bring them back up at the end. Right. If red. It's kind of like we're not even going to acknowledge.
We could give them a yellow if you feel like they should be a yellow just to kind of have a little more interesting conversation when we get there. Okay. Dave, do you still rock Samsonite luggage when you go to the airport or.
Producer Dave
00:32:13.000 - 00:32:17.900
Yes. No, I have Gregory luggage, actually.
Colin True
00:32:18.520 - 00:32:19.216
Do you really?
Producer Dave
00:32:19.288 - 00:32:19.936
No, I don't.
Colin True
00:32:19.968 - 00:32:21.380
Oh, that would have been amazing.
Producer Dave
00:32:22.680 - 00:32:43.202
I was just, just kind of assessing them and where they fit and. Yeah, I think yellow for sure. I don't think you can. You can't just read them out of the conversation. But I already did.
Well, well, other people that Justin can't do that, but rather they'll hold to the end. I don't know about that, but, you.
Colin True
00:32:43.226 - 00:32:44.354
Know, are you looking at their website?
Producer Dave
00:32:44.442 - 00:32:59.590
I am.
You know, in terms of, you know, just the legitimate categories that they play in, in terms of the coverage of the, of the activity base from, you know, long multi week Hike to multi hour hike. It's just they have it covered.
Colin True
00:32:59.920 - 00:33:20.536
All right, number nine on the list here.
We get into another one of those redundant ones where we have Exped after all the Therm a rest conversation we just had where we auto green Therm A rest Exped is sort of the brand look at a stand on Therm a rest corner in a lot of ways. Right. They're kind of systems making specific pads for the back of your pickup truck and all this up there.
Justin Housman
00:33:20.608 - 00:33:30.930
I'm sure they make backpacking pads too, but I primarily think of them as the really burly but also really comfortable car camping like over landing pad. That's how I always think of expat.
Eoin Comerford
00:33:31.510 - 00:34:05.228
I mean they really I think sort of revolutionized the market with the Mega Match back in like 2010, 2011, whenever it was when they came out with that. And now everybody's got their version. I think it's the Mondo King maybe from Therm a Rest.
So they created a subcategory and they have other things too. Like the Exped is a. They are a full gear company with you know, backpacks and you know, tents and all kinds of stuff.
But they really are known for that for the, the Mega Mash.
Justin Housman
00:34:05.324 - 00:34:31.122
I would stock them if I had an outdoor. If I had like an overland shop with that had that had outdoor.
Like I'm sure that's a thing like an Overland store or maybe it's just a, like a, like a mechanic like a garage and they sell stuff if you want to like fabricate your whatever, you know, you want to fabricate an outdoor rig. I'm sure they sell Exped like I would have them at a shop like that.
I don't know if I would have them at a rate at just a regular outdoor gear shop though because you got.
Colin True
00:34:31.146 - 00:34:37.282
You make it the case that they stand apart from thermal rest. So let's yellow them and just kind of they're part of the conversation because they're not quite a one for one.
Producer Dave
00:34:37.386 - 00:35:10.700
I am going to make this the case for green just in the sense that you know we're talking very specifically about their, their padding but you know, they're talking about tents, bivvy bags, you know, gear stuff, ham. Like there's just way beyond that.
I would also give them kind of points for design language and innovation in this piece where you said they took that kind of mantle and ran with it.
But their stuff is discernibly different than other other brands in the different categories, whether it be packs or bags or tent there's definitely a, you know, it's something.
Eoin Comerford
00:35:10.820 - 00:35:13.308
It's a cool. It's a cool brand, I would say.
Producer Dave
00:35:13.444 - 00:35:13.708
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:35:13.724 - 00:35:17.468
I mean, I love Therm A Rest, but I would say exped is the cooler brand of the two.
Justin Housman
00:35:17.524 - 00:35:22.108
Thermos isn't cool. That's the one downside of Therm A Rest. It doesn't feel cool at all to me.
Colin True
00:35:22.164 - 00:35:27.080
It's like when we put Merrell in the top five footwear, right? No offense, Wolverine, but you know what I mean.
Eoin Comerford
00:35:27.700 - 00:35:29.280
I felt dirty afterwards.
Colin True
00:35:30.980 - 00:35:45.022
You talked about screen. We have thermal rest and exped, and then we'll have to probably decide when we get to the top five.
But, Dave, on a, on a naming convention alone, you know, Mondo King. Is that, you know, therm a rest or a 1990s porno? Which one do you think?
Producer Dave
00:35:45.126 - 00:35:48.990
See, I like Mondo King. I'm down with that. Regardless of what it comes from.
Colin True
00:35:49.030 - 00:35:50.862
You do like Mondo King, don't you, Dave?
Producer Dave
00:35:50.926 - 00:35:51.230
I do.
Eoin Comerford
00:35:51.270 - 00:35:51.710
It's right.
Producer Dave
00:35:51.750 - 00:35:59.530
There you go. It's kind of like phenomena. I don't care where it comes from. It's just, it's fantastic language. Right?
Colin True
00:35:59.830 - 00:36:04.850
All right. This is either going to be a really quick conversation or a really long conversation. Number eight on the list. Kelty.
Eoin Comerford
00:36:07.350 - 00:36:12.706
We know how you feel, Brian. Or, sorry, Colin, we know how you feel. So lead us off.
Colin True
00:36:12.838 - 00:36:13.510
Back.
Eoin Comerford
00:36:13.970 - 00:36:15.830
Lead us off. No, come on.
Colin True
00:36:16.290 - 00:37:21.992
I, I.
The problem with Kelty is it's, it's to me, the quintessential zombie brand of like, one where, I mean, Kelty for the longest time was almost, was at one point was definitely an it brand. Right. You know, revolutionizing backpacks and, you know, you got to have kelty in the 90s. Like, it was just a stalwart brand.
You know, people were going to come in like, oh, you can always sell them at Kelty. I used a Kelty pack when I, when I climbed Mount Shasta and Rainier. And so, and then it just kind of, it just doesn't. Where'd they go?
They just kind of evaporated from the scene.
When we were doing all the zombie brand stuff last fall, I texted a couple of dealers and they're like, yeah, like four or five years ago, we just sort of stopped buying them at specialty. So I assume that's ownership. I'm assuming it's the same sort of story as a lot of these other folks. I also, if, but it's a weird one.
Or the conversation. If I went into any store and they had Kelty on the wall, I wouldn't you know, be put up by it, put off by it or anything like that.
It's like, oh yeah, you got Kelty, I get it. So it's kind of a. Maybe they're not quite fully succumbed to the zombie virus just about yet, but they're definitely headed that way.
Eoin Comerford
00:37:22.016 - 00:38:11.350
It feels like I wouldn't call them a zombie brand, but I do think they have an important place to play in the market in that they are not as expensive as some of these Uber other brands that are out there. They provide. Right. You know, you can, you can actually get, get $100 sleeping bag from these guys. That'll work and it'll be good.
And so they do fill the chasm a little bit between Coleman and whatever Nemo. Right.
That said though, for most outdoor gear shops, because of that, they don't get picked up, ironically, because the outdoor gear shop would rather sell you the $200 down bag from, you know, name the company than the 100 and whatever, $130 one from Kelsey.
Colin True
00:38:11.430 - 00:38:42.762
So I guess I call them a zombie because they were once right there with the Gregory's, the Dana's back in the day, you know, Marmots, the Deuters today. And now they feel more like slumberjack. You know, not to take a shot at slumberjack, but it's just like that feels more like big box outdoor.
All very functional stuff. We did a slumberjack episode on Kieran Beer. Right. I mean it's like, it's good stuff, but you're just kind of in that, that's where you play now.
And you used to be up here in the major leagues and now you're kind of down at double A, you.
Eoin Comerford
00:38:42.786 - 00:38:55.434
Know, and they do some, they do, they do some volume. I mean, there's no doubt. Oh yeah, they're high on the list. But could I ever see them in the top five? I know it'd be tough. Yeah, yeah.
Producer Dave
00:38:55.482 - 00:39:18.980
I'm just going to say does, does price positioning have anything to do with gear positioning? I mean, it's all gear. The whole brand is a gear brand that's centered around that.
The fact that they play on a lower price position, that is a wider, broader market shouldn't really necessarily get in the way of that. You know, you can get a three person tent for 200 bucks cheaper than anybody else we've talked about.
Justin Housman
00:39:19.020 - 00:39:21.200
It's a good point. It's a really good point.
Producer Dave
00:39:21.580 - 00:39:22.612
But I'm just.
Colin True
00:39:22.796 - 00:39:25.796
Do we yellow Kelty to kind of like keep them in the conversation?
Producer Dave
00:39:25.908 - 00:39:29.600
I think you have to. And I think you have to feel ashamed that you yellowed them.
Justin Housman
00:39:30.210 - 00:39:32.202
Do you mean rather than green to them?
Producer Dave
00:39:32.386 - 00:39:32.842
Yes.
Justin Housman
00:39:32.906 - 00:39:33.242
Yeah.
Producer Dave
00:39:33.306 - 00:39:35.418
Yes. I'm just, just.
Colin True
00:39:35.474 - 00:39:39.390
I was trying to pick the shade of red I was going to use. You know, I didn't.
Justin Housman
00:39:39.970 - 00:39:43.590
I have, I have a Kelty product that I bought with my own money. How do you feel about that?
Producer Dave
00:39:43.890 - 00:39:46.074
Right. And you probably got a good deal from it.
Eoin Comerford
00:39:46.242 - 00:39:49.030
1982. When was that?
Justin Housman
00:39:49.570 - 00:39:54.266
I do. I have the Kelty Cabana. It's like a, it's. It's what we use when we go to the beach. It's like a. Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:39:54.298 - 00:39:58.712
No, they, they, they, they. They were a leader in the whole, in that whole sun shelter space.
Colin True
00:39:58.906 - 00:40:08.508
Well put Kelty against Marmot. Like who do you go with? That's probably who it'll come down to when we have the conversation at the end. Right?
It's Kelty versus Marmot in a lot of ways. I mean, what's the difference between those two brands right now?
Producer Dave
00:40:08.564 - 00:40:29.472
See there, I think there's a perfect example. Marmot, they started in the same place. Marmot chose an apparel side trail and so they have moved that way. Kelty didn't.
They have stayed, stayed true to that gear. Now the price went down, that trail went down. But still, still on the trail.
Justin Housman
00:40:29.536 - 00:40:57.230
There's something attractive about Kelty and I don't know what it is like to be honest. Like they're like if I for some reason had a full Kelty setup where that was just all, all this, everything I had was Kelty, it would be fine.
And like I like their colorways. Like I like their design a little bit. Like it's. There's nothing wrong with Kelty like at all.
I just, If I, if you have, if I have, you know, I have the means. Well, I don't really have to pay for things so I usually have higher end stuff. But I mean I would be happy with full Kelty products.
Like no, no issues at all.
Eoin Comerford
00:40:57.270 - 00:41:07.726
Yeah, same. I mean Kelty is my. Actually my go to folding like folding camp chair. Great product.
Works well not over engineered like you know, crazy aircraft aluminum. It just works.
Justin Housman
00:41:07.838 - 00:41:10.670
I'm talking myself into greening. Into greening Kelty.
Producer Dave
00:41:10.830 - 00:41:17.470
Wait till we get into. Wait till we get into graphic design. Come on, you want to go elitist?
Colin True
00:41:17.630 - 00:41:21.632
Next one list I don't have much of an opinion on. I've never really used much of their stuff. And it's decine.
Justin Housman
00:41:21.766 - 00:41:22.396
Huh.
Colin True
00:41:22.508 - 00:41:35.804
Other than my mountain bike tailgate, you know, like, you know, cover my tailgate for my Mountain bikes. Like, I have a Dakine, one of those. That's like the only Dakine product I've ever owned. I've never had any backpacks or anything from Dakine.
Justin Housman
00:41:35.932 - 00:41:41.260
I've had all kinds of Dakine stuff. Alkina. Da kind. I wouldn't even think of them on this list.
Eoin Comerford
00:41:41.380 - 00:41:57.810
They're a little bit more. There's a kind that I think it's a cool brand, but it's a. There's a. More of an edge to the brand. More. A little bit more street, obviously.
Snow, skate, surf, kind of whatever. Core gear brand. I. I wouldn't.
Justin Housman
00:41:57.890 - 00:42:03.410
I mean, they make. I. I have declined leashes. Like, there's no way they can be on this outdoor gear list. Like, there's just no way.
Colin True
00:42:03.450 - 00:42:05.698
I do as well. Actually, I forgot I had a decline.
Eoin Comerford
00:42:05.794 - 00:42:09.830
Justin, we don't want to. We don't want to hear about your. Your personal fetishes.
Producer Dave
00:42:11.290 - 00:42:11.938
What?
Colin True
00:42:12.074 - 00:42:19.970
Oh, okay. I guess, Justin, you're the gimp now. That's your music name. So glad that's where your mind went.
Producer Dave
00:42:20.990 - 00:42:21.850
Yeah.
Colin True
00:42:22.510 - 00:42:40.998
When we're doing the 80th version of this and we get to some other category. Hey, decline. We can talk about them later. Number six is Yakima. And we do have. Tuli is on the list. It's coming up, so we will have it. We.
We could do them both right now if you guys want, because I can't imagine both would carry into the finals if either of them would. Right. So we may as well just combo Tuli and Yakima right now.
Producer Dave
00:42:41.134 - 00:42:42.090
The racks.
Colin True
00:42:42.550 - 00:42:54.638
The rack. Yeah, the rack category. Yeah, the dominant rack category. Any thoughts? But does anybody actually have a preference?
Because if you said to me, here's your rack, Yakima, rack on your car, I'm like, sweet. Like, hey, here's your tooling rack on your car. Back and forth.
Justin Housman
00:42:54.654 - 00:42:59.966
You know, I felt like Thule had a bit more of a prestige about it, I think for a while. I don't know.
Colin True
00:43:00.038 - 00:43:01.518
I like square bars more than round.
Justin Housman
00:43:01.574 - 00:43:17.534
Yeah. I mean, it's going to come down to that. I have. The only bike rack I have right now is Thule. I'd be happy with. I.
To be honest, I probably wouldn't buy a Thule or a Yakima if I was going to buy a bike rack. But I have a tooling. It works fine. Yakima makes real good boxes. I mean, my cargo box is a Yakima. I'm very happy with it.
Colin True
00:43:17.702 - 00:43:28.570
I have a. I have a tooling box that's great too. I, I just, I mean. Any insight from your moose days, owen, about Yakima versus Tuli?
Was it kind of 50, 50 on the spreadsheet at the end of the year? I mean, what, what, what did you, what was the experience?
Eoin Comerford
00:43:29.110 - 00:43:54.112
Tooly did better, I think, you know, slight. I think it brat slightly elevated brand. I mean, Yakima is great. Again, my personal roof rack is a Yakima.
My personal hitch mount bike rack is a Yakima. They make great product. You couldn't go wrong with either of these brands.
But if I had to pick one rack brand to have in my store and I could only have one, it would be Thule.
Justin Housman
00:43:54.176 - 00:43:56.016
Yeah, I could see that, I guess.
Colin True
00:43:56.128 - 00:43:59.184
Are they both red? Because I don't think either one of these would be in the top five.
Eoin Comerford
00:43:59.272 - 00:44:09.848
That's. Yeah. What I would tell you is selling, selling racks in outdoor gear stores is tough just because of the level of customization and stuff and.
Justin Housman
00:44:09.984 - 00:44:10.280
Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:10.320 - 00:44:16.936
And then you get sued when it, when it falls off and hits somebody. So. Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:44:17.048 - 00:44:18.232
Yeah, I don't think I'd have either.
Producer Dave
00:44:18.296 - 00:44:28.658
Yeah. I think it's an acknowledgment that rack is, is a fusion space in between these categories that kind of exists on its own. And.
Colin True
00:44:28.824 - 00:44:33.006
Yeah, because it's kind. You can make the case. It's almost an accessory in a way. Right.
Producer Dave
00:44:33.158 - 00:44:37.930
But you can make the case. Right. So it's a gear accessory here. Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:38.310 - 00:44:41.214
It's a dwarf gear accessory over there. I like that. I like that term.
Colin True
00:44:41.302 - 00:44:45.086
Should we do the gear accessory episode? It'll be all coolers and bike racks. So.
Producer Dave
00:44:45.238 - 00:44:45.662
Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:44:45.726 - 00:44:45.982
All right.
Colin True
00:44:46.006 - 00:44:48.238
This next one to me is auto green and it's Big Agnes.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:48.334 - 00:45:25.210
Yeah, I would have to agree. And you know, just. Well, first of all, from an innovative innovation perspective, just what they did and how they came at camping from a.
Just a different angle. The whole comfort size angle was very new when they did. Obviously they've continued to innovate with their product over the years.
I think they've pissed some people off of late with some of the discounting that they've done. I'm guessing if you asked Wes Allen, he would probably have a thing or two to say about these guys. Oh, my gosh. But yeah, they can't not be green.
Justin Housman
00:45:25.290 - 00:45:56.400
I think I agree with all that. I mean, I, I put Big, Big Agnes in the same category in terms of.
I realize none of the things that I do are this actually this serious, but, you know, I, I would like, trust my life to their products. You know what I mean, like, I. Like, if I was going somewhere gnarly, I take Big Agnes and I wouldn't think twice. Same. Same with like Nemo.
Same with Sea to Summit. Like, I just feel like it's a top shelf. There's no. Absolutely nothing to complain about. Really.
Like, their stuff would absolutely recommend them and often do to. To people. So. Yeah.
Colin True
00:45:56.480 - 00:45:59.820
Dave, you have an aunt named Big Agnes. You want to tell us a little about her or.
Producer Dave
00:46:00.760 - 00:46:02.180
Mean as a snake.
Colin True
00:46:03.160 - 00:46:19.648
This actually gets harder because the last three, like here, at least rattle off the top three because I if on their own, they're all auto greens. And now we're gonna have a real problem because we have a lot of greens. We have only got five. Yeah, I know. Black Diamond, Nemo and Osprey.
I mean, how do you not. Not even the case for any of those to not be green.
Producer Dave
00:46:19.744 - 00:46:27.610
They have to be green. They have to be green and you have to suck it up and just realize that round two is brutal.
Eoin Comerford
00:46:28.510 - 00:46:37.574
Brutal because everyone else is fighting over two spots, basically. Because like Nemo. Nemo. If I had to pick one brand, it would be Nemo.
Justin Housman
00:46:37.622 - 00:46:38.134
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:46:38.262 - 00:46:56.360
Because to me, it's also one of the few brands at the top, towards the top of this list that is still run by its founder, Cam, and it shows. The product is awesome. It is different, it's innovative. The Wagon Top 4 is my personal camping car.
Justin Housman
00:46:56.400 - 00:46:57.340
Camping tent.
Eoin Comerford
00:46:58.880 - 00:47:02.872
So, yeah, I mean, there's. You'll have to fight me if it's not.
Justin Housman
00:47:02.976 - 00:47:11.432
I think I can make it a little easier. I mean, really, if you have Nemo, you probably don't need Cedar Summit. And if you have Nemo, you probably don't need Big Agnes.
I mean, Big Agnes makes Jack.
Colin True
00:47:11.496 - 00:47:12.488
I was gonna say the same thing.
Justin Housman
00:47:12.544 - 00:47:21.128
And other things I think Nemo doesn't. But I mean, you're gonna. Nemo, for the most part, is going to fill that same role for those. And I would. And I would choose Nemo over those other two.
So.
Colin True
00:47:21.264 - 00:48:31.540
No, I agree. I think that's a few years ago, Big. Big Agnes would be in the Nemo spot. Or we'd be like, well, they're number one. Probably would be the. The thing.
But I think Nemo is really just ascended. And even just the backpacks they've released and the environmental piece that they're doing on other packs.
I mean, Big Agnes said some good environmental wins too. It's nothing to take away from that. But I just. It's. It's. How do you not have Nemo at number one? I. I just don't.
You can't on this list now, Black Diamond. I don't want to skip over them or Osprey. We should talk about both of them. BD is coming out of a bit of a lull. It's.
And we've had Neil Fisk on the show and sounds like they're really positioned to go in interesting places and different than a lot of these other brands because, and to our, I think this who you were referring to, Owen, we were talking about Petzl. I mean they, they are the climbing brand now that, and they are owning that space. They're, they're trying to claim that space.
Like we are the climbing brand. We are a climbing brand, not small mountain brand. That, yeah, it's all mountain stuff. Right. But we are a climbing brand.
And so to that point they really do stand apart on this list against everybody else. There's less crossover into the space when you look at this list for BD. And then of course Osprey is, you know, the 800 pound gorilla in the room.
Right. I mean it's like you can't not.
Justin Housman
00:48:31.840 - 00:48:32.808
You have to have Osprey.
Colin True
00:48:32.824 - 00:48:33.560
Yeah, you got right.
Justin Housman
00:48:33.600 - 00:48:38.922
This is actually not that 100%. Honestly, I think we'd all agree with, I think we're all going to agree on the top five.
Colin True
00:48:39.096 - 00:48:40.886
Well, we have nine greens right now.
Justin Housman
00:48:41.038 - 00:48:46.054
I think we're gonna watch this. I bet you. Well, I don't know how we could do this. I bet if we all filled out 3, 4 and 5 right now. I better be.
Colin True
00:48:46.062 - 00:48:46.998
This just is gonna end the pod.
Justin Housman
00:48:47.014 - 00:48:54.118
Right. I bet if we, I bet if we take 10 seconds and come up with a 3, 4 and 5, I bet it's the same for everybody. Maybe not the same order.
Colin True
00:48:54.174 - 00:48:54.406
Okay.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:54.438 - 00:48:56.726
I don't know. Let's talk it through here.
Producer Dave
00:48:56.798 - 00:48:57.094
Okay.
Colin True
00:48:57.142 - 00:49:15.740
All right. I, I so we have here, here are the greens heading into the finals. Right?
So we have sea to summit mountain, msr, Petzl, Thermarest, exped Big Agnes, bd, Nemo and Osprey. Let's just, let's just go Exped versus Thermarest. We can't have both exped.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:15.820 - 00:49:19.788
Oh yeah, I think I've got to go exped. As much as I love my thermal.
Colin True
00:49:19.804 - 00:49:30.316
Rest, even though Therm A rest is the Kleenex of a category. Just, I'm just, I'm with you guys. Actually, I would want the cooler brand. I want the cooler brand.
But I just want to, you know, give Therm a rest a moment.
Justin Housman
00:49:30.348 - 00:49:30.892
Love Therm a rest.
Producer Dave
00:49:30.916 - 00:49:33.706
But we did, we Gave him a moment. It's expedited.
Justin Housman
00:49:33.848 - 00:49:34.310
Wow.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:34.390 - 00:49:34.774
See?
Justin Housman
00:49:34.862 - 00:49:35.750
See, I told you.
Colin True
00:49:35.790 - 00:49:36.342
Dave at the top.
Justin Housman
00:49:36.366 - 00:49:38.050
Right? I already know the next two.
Colin True
00:49:38.910 - 00:49:44.090
Okay. All right. Where are we going to go next? Do we want to do a Petzl versus bd?
Eoin Comerford
00:49:44.910 - 00:49:45.814
I mean, come on.
Justin Housman
00:49:45.902 - 00:49:46.966
Yeah, yeah.
Colin True
00:49:47.158 - 00:49:55.814
And then we have msr. We took out seated. RMSR was at Cedar Summit. Beg Agnes. We gave those all to the Nemo spot. Right.
Justin Housman
00:49:55.822 - 00:49:57.570
Yeah, I'm happy with that.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:58.270 - 00:50:04.838
I wouldn't put msr. I think msr. I would put MSR does. Does more in terms of some of their things.
Justin Housman
00:50:04.894 - 00:50:05.794
That' exactly.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:05.922 - 00:50:07.170
Snow, shoes, etc.
Justin Housman
00:50:07.250 - 00:50:07.910
Yeah.
Colin True
00:50:08.410 - 00:50:11.390
Notice you say that you didn't. You didn't say the list earlier. Just.
Justin Housman
00:50:11.850 - 00:50:19.106
I bet you had we all just taken 30 seconds and. And written on the. The last three, it would have been those three. Right? Like, who's. You're not gonna.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:19.138 - 00:50:23.310
So what you're saying is, Justin, we. We wasted our. Everyone's time here. We could have just started.
Justin Housman
00:50:24.330 - 00:50:30.914
I mean, for these last three, like, once we had Nemo and Osprey, I think the last three just kind of fill in like, I don't know.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:31.002 - 00:50:31.522
Okay.
Justin Housman
00:50:31.586 - 00:50:32.338
I don't know.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:32.474 - 00:50:34.182
I can. I can't disagree.
Justin Housman
00:50:34.246 - 00:50:34.582
Yeah.
Colin True
00:50:34.646 - 00:50:52.614
We did not mention the yellows, which were Mountain Hardware, Marmot, Gregory, Kelty, which actually, it's funny how much those kind of cross over with each other. The. Yeah. So for the top five, we have Nemo, Osprey, exped, bd. Msr. Is that. Does that feel like the list?
Do we want to make any argument for anything else?
Producer Dave
00:50:52.702 - 00:51:03.712
I. I've detected maybe something at least needs to be put into the conversation that we have. Oh, God, left out.
Speaking of acronyms, NSR or excuse me, nrs.
Colin True
00:51:03.856 - 00:51:05.200
Oh, the Paddling brain.
Producer Dave
00:51:05.360 - 00:51:12.700
Yeah. Yeah. With a substantial, substantial product list of.
Colin True
00:51:13.560 - 00:51:14.112
Wait a second.
Justin Housman
00:51:14.136 - 00:51:15.920
Wait a second, wait a second. Wait, wait, wait.
Eoin Comerford
00:51:16.000 - 00:51:18.048
We said Camp High Climb going in.
Justin Housman
00:51:18.104 - 00:51:21.072
I don't think. I mean, the same with, like, Dakine. Like, it's kind of a specialty thing.
Colin True
00:51:21.096 - 00:51:54.424
Honestly, the most boring brand on this list is probably Osprey. And talking with the folks at Osprey Outdoor Market alliance last year, I was actually pretty impressed with kind of their brand strategy.
Like, they said they. They acknowledge, like, hey, like, we've been big for years. We could have gone down the road of, like, let's have an apparel line.
Like, nope, we do backpacks. And we do backpacks really, really well.
And I bet it's frustrating to all the gear testers and YouTubers and media people out there that anytime they Try an Osprey product. It's probably great. You know, it's just like, it probably just. It performs, does what they say they're going to do. It's in the right price range.
They kind of check all the boxes. It looks good, good colors.
Eoin Comerford
00:51:54.552 - 00:52:07.846
So great. I mean, that's my go to, you know, Carry on is wheelchair. Carry on is an Osprey. So light. But that thing is an absolute beast. It just inhales luggage.
It's so great.
Justin Housman
00:52:07.918 - 00:52:26.490
I mean, I've, I've worn so many backpacking backpacks. I love cottage industry stuff. Like my wife isn't. When we used to backpack all the time. Her, she uses an Oola.
Like they don't get a whole lot cooler, you know, in terms of like cottage industry brands. I would always Osprey all day long. Always. I've just never. Nothing has even come close to the comfort.
Eoin Comerford
00:52:27.270 - 00:52:29.390
Their suspension system is just. It's amazing.
Justin Housman
00:52:29.470 - 00:52:30.130
Yeah.
Colin True
00:52:30.550 - 00:52:34.094
So is BD the sort of dingleberry on this list because they're so specific.
Producer Dave
00:52:34.222 - 00:52:39.614
And we are, we are deciding to. To dis paddlers and not include nrs.
Colin True
00:52:39.742 - 00:52:42.766
We'll do a paddle and bike ranking. We'll do paddles and bikes.
Producer Dave
00:52:42.878 - 00:52:52.446
Send your complaints to. He hates you and it's clear. So take us through. Colin, take us through.
Colin True
00:52:52.518 - 00:53:15.114
All right, the top five gear brands as determined by the Rock Fight. Number one, Nemo. Number two, Osprey. Number three, Exped. Number four, Black Diamond. Number five, msr.
Send all of your complaints, all of your dropping issues to myrockfightmail.com when is this dropping? This is out next Monday. Monday the 10th.
Justin Housman
00:53:15.162 - 00:53:18.230
All right, I'll make sure to not look at LinkedIn that day.
Colin True
00:53:19.250 - 00:54:03.504
All right, well, we will wrap it up there. Come back later this week on Wednesday when Justin and I will be running through some headlines.
Come out of the Outdoo adventure community and then come back on Friday to hear my conversation with Peter Wickham of Tersys Solutions. We want your emails like we've been saying this entire time, especially about this episode.
Send them to myrockflightmail.com if we get enough, we'll do a whole mailbag episode just about this list. The Rock Fight is a production of Rock Fight llc. Our producer today was David Karstad. Art direction provided by Sarah. I got Covid Gensert.
And for Justin Hausman and Owen Comerford, I'm Colin Troup. Thanks for listening. And here to take us out, it's our guy, Kristen Megs. He likes gear. He likes.
He likes rock and roll gear and he's going to sing the Rock Fight fight song. We'll see you next time, rock fighters. No, like nobody wants to bye.
Producer Dave
00:54:03.552 - 00:54:07.100
Do a little noise or occupy the space there. I mean.
Colin True
00:54:10.280 - 00:54:12.480
That'S perfect. Actually. I will leave all that in.
Chris DeMakes
00:54:12.520 - 00:55:07.890
Rock flight. Rock flight. Rock flight. Rock flight Rock fight. Rock fight.
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