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Today on THE ROCK FIGHT (an outdoor podcast that aims for the head) Colin opens things up by responding to listener responses to last week's episode and how REI and Dick's are growing increasingly close to being the same thing.
Then Colin & Producer Dave hit the following headlines to come out of the outdoor industry over the past week:
Black Diamond posts a loss in the second quarter in part because of PFAS. Could this have been avoided? (16:13)
BOA & Primaloft post second quarter gains. Is this a sign that outdoor brands are investing in their 2025 product lines? (20:17)
Crocs makes plans to make more sneakers after success of May sneaker launch (22:55)
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Episode Transcript
Colin (00:00):
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth, slays sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin Tru, and today the listeners have spoken and I am responding a special REI edition mailbag as well as headlines are coming up. But before we get to that, a few housekeeping items. As usual, please follow and rate the rock fight wherever you're listening on any podcast app, leave us that five star rating. Send us your feedback by sending an email to my rock fight@gmail.com. That's how we got a lot of these listener responses was they sent emails to my rock fight@gmail.com. And if you're an Apple Podcast listener, please leave us a written review and if you do, send a screenshot of your review to my rock fight@gmail.com and we'll send you a rock fight and gear and beer sticker.
(00:44):
And speaking of gear and beer, gear and beer is back, go listen, follow and rake gear and beer wherever you're listening to this podcast. This week we put up the pfas Buying Guide with Meg Kearney. Next week we're featuring a brand you may not be familiar with Gear and beer is the outdoor podcast you need and you deserve right now. So check it out. Lastly, head over to rock fight.co. Click join the mailing list. You can get our weekly newsletter news from the front, just like Hans Gruber does. Get it in your inbox every Sunday morning and all right, let's start the show.
(01:20):
Hey, and before I really get into it for all you Haman files out there, Justin will be back next week when we start an addition of headlines focused on more adventure topics. So Mondays will be industry focused and then later in the week the Haman will be back to talk about getting outside. Good stuff on the way, hope he's having fun on his vacation. But for today, I didn't want to be seen as doing the same topic two weeks in a row, but I got so many listener responses to last week's REI conversation that I need to do a mailbag and address some of them. If you miss last week's episode, I've linked it in the show notes. But basically I gave you my response to re's vendor awards winners and how REI is trending more and more towards general sporting goods and further away from being a hardcore outdoor retailer.
(02:06):
And now that trend combined with the recent participation numbers from the OIA make REI kind of the most vulnerable outdoor retailer we have, and I had a variety of listener feedback. I also got some inside the industry responses from folks that I trust. So I wanted to use all of that to provide some additional context to what we spoke about a week ago. First up as a comment that was left on Apple Podcasts from camping Kev, who also left a five star review. So even though he was a little critical of the conversation, he still left the five star reviews. Thank you, ck. That was very kind of you. But camping. Kev writes, let go of the REI. Dick's comparison, I get the point, but REI is so different than Dick's. You can't get climbing gear. There's a one year return policy, local volunteer opportunities.
(02:49):
Sure they have issues like union busting, but I know the folks at my local REI and do activities with them. Time to move on. Again, thank you camping Kev for writing in. And honestly, the only issue I take with what you had to say was asking me to let it go or move on. I mean, come on, you've listened to this show long enough, I'm not going to do that. But what you're detailing about REI is exactly what I'm afraid of losing from them. What REI has to offer is unique and has been unique, but it has also been subtly changing as I pointed out in last week's episode. And as another listener pointed out that Justin Hausman this past week re's biggest differentiating factor are the dividends you earned by shopping at their co-op. That's something we didn't address, but that's a huge differentiator.
(03:36):
But if you go looking around and judging by the many message boards and Reddit threads that are out there, even that value has started to diminish over the years because REI is acting more and more like target than an outdoor retailer. And that's kind of backed up and how they're operating. If you look at who they've been hiring into management positions, they're largely outside of the outdoor industry. And to a certain extent I get that. I mean, they're a big retailer who can benefit from employees with experiences at places that aren't in the outdoor industry. But there's a downside to that. I had an industry friend who recently had an encounter with an REI manager who openly admitted to them that they know they're not connecting with their customers in stores. And personally, like I said last week, I've rarely felt like there was a connection with in-store staff and those who shop at RE, I always felt like that was their weak spot to begin with.
(04:29):
But they also had real chops as the biggest outdoor retailer going to overcome that vibe. But the further you get away from your roots, the easier it is to lose the identity that made you successful and popular to begin with. And I'm not saying there aren't differences between REI and Dix. I'm simply saying that those differences are becoming less stark. And the consumer base that exists in the center of the REI Dick's Venn diagram, it's growing. I mean, ultimately none of this matters if you have the option of a strong independent specialty shop near you. But as this listener email, there's another listener email from Patrick points out. That's not always the case. Patrick writes, Hey guys, love the show. I do have to push back on your idea that Dickson REI are interchangeable. I live in Maryland and my Dick's store sells no outdoor gear.
(05:20):
They've transitioned to only recreational sports plus fishing. They don't even sell any kids' bikes. So when you want outdoor gear, I either have to travel 30 minutes to REI or get it online. I'm sure this is dependent on where you live. So it's not fair to say Dick's is the same as REI for the whole country. Thanks Patrick for writing in. You make a good point before I get to your point Camping, Kev and Patrick, if you want to send me your address@myrockgmail.com, we'll send you some stickers. So we'll send those over. Look, in a perfect world, everyone has choices here, right? We got in your town, ideally you'd have a nice big box outdoor shop, you'd have a general sporting goods store, then you'd have local gear shops and competent local bike shops, run specialty hunt and fish ski stores, all those things. You'd have it all, but that's not going to exist everywhere and honestly with the internet, it probably doesn't even need to.
(06:12):
But I did want to fact check myself and run that up against Patrick's email. So I went to my local Dick's yesterday and shopped around the outdoor section and the apparel section and the bike sections, and this is what I found. So in the outdoor kind of gear section, I found 10 by the North Face sleeping bags by the North Face, Kelty and Marmite. I found a sleeping pad from Thermos. It was the ridge rest, the foam pad, but nonetheless, it was a thermos pad. They carried jet boil, they had headlamps by black diamond, they had backpacks by Osprey, they had hiking footwear by Merrill and Solomon, and then a wide array of dick's in-House brand Quest, which say what you want, it looks competently made across the board using materials and the same technologies you'd find in bigger, more accepted outdoor brands. And then on the outerwear side, they carry Carhartt, the North Face, Columbia, Patagonia, moving into the bike shop where this particular store was a little thin on inventory, but Dick's also recently entered into a partnership with Mongoose. Now, unfortunately, they did so by creating a logo that reads, and I swear I'm not making this up, you can look online. This is a real thing. It says Mongoose dicks, which that's probably a copywriter issue more than anything else. I don't think you want on your billion dollar retailer website, mongoose sticks, but or
Producer Dave (07:37):
Maybe you do. Maybe you
Colin (07:39):
Do. Maybe that's their plan the whole time.
Producer Dave (07:42):
That's
Colin (07:43):
Right. Do you want some mongoose sticks?
Producer Dave (07:46):
It's
Colin (07:47):
Listen, mongooses may not be your Go-to bike brand, but Dick's is definitely going to use this partnership to expand their cycling presence. So Patrick, maybe the Dick's buy you is like the most underserved location in their entire chain. And if your only options are a lesser than Dick's or a half hour drive to REI, that definitely sucks. But it still kind of like the camping keve. Now, it still sort of supports my larger point in all this because it's undeniable that REI is drifting closer to what Dick's does, and Dick's definitely has drifted closer to the outdoor side of things. In fact, Dick's has engaged with outdoor products for a long time. I used to do Timberland clinics at Dick's in 2006. And you know what else Dicks has done? They've started Public lands, which is their version of a specialty outdoor store with all of the categories you can't find at a regular Dick's, but you can find at a regular REI.
(08:39):
Now why would Dicks do this and start down the path of going head to head with REI if they didn't think they could hold their own or at least see an opening in the marketplace? Now there are only eight public lands locations, and lately it seems that Dick seems more interested in opening other locations from their portfolio, but we'll have to see how this all shakes out. But it points out the fact that as great as specialty shops are, they are independently owned and not every one of us has one near them. And even some of the ones that are out there, there's a variant in quality, right? Some of them aren't as good as others. The last thing I really want to touch on this as we've gone deeper into the outdoor retail rabbit hole is there's another player that warrants mentioning here, and that's Gearhead Outfitters, which I just learned about in the last couple of months.
(09:22):
Gearhead started as a single shop in Arkansas and has grown into 18 stores through expansion and acquisition of other specialty shops and chains. They acquired some small local chains like Uncle Dan's in Chicago, in Tennessee Rock Creek. They've acquired Rock Creek and they've all been bought and converted to Gearhead Outfitters. Now, I've reached out to the founder of Gearhead through LinkedIn because I'm curious what this means to the outdoor retail arms race as well as the specialty shops. It's kind of a curious new player here. But look, the bottom line here is that things are changing across the board. I mean, think how much We've talked about this over the last two episodes, and I barely even mentioned Sierra, who's opened 100 stores and is currently planning to open more so to camping, Kev ck Patrick, anyone else who perhaps feels like I was coming after their favorite place to shop for outdoor stuff.
(10:13):
That's not what this is about. This is about shining a light on what REI is evolving into and how they may be most at risk as outdoor consumers evolve based on what we saw in that OIA participation report. And the risk may be minimal and maybe nothing much changes, I don't know. But it definitely feels like things are changing to sustain where we currently are, we need to continue to make way more stuff than we can likely ever consume. Sierra, the retailer founded on selling outdoor brands, misfits is the best example of this. They're planning on opening 26 new stores this year. Growing off of that REI is planning to open 10 more stores this year. Dick's has over 30 stores planned to open in 2024, split across their various names and properties. So I really have no predictions to make. I think I just wanted to provide some context to last week's conversation.
(11:04):
And just for those of you who don't see the REI Dicks comparison, they're closer to what they do than you may want to admit. And they are definitely way more important to your favorite brand than you may be comfortable with. So this is a topic I'm sure we'll continue to return to, not for a few weeks at this point, but send any more additional thoughts that you may have if you haven't already to my rock fight@gmail.com. I do want to bring in producer, Dave. Dave, any thoughts? You were part of the conversation last week. Anything of this extra context that springs to mind?
Producer Dave (11:36):
Nothing really to add to what
Colin (11:39):
You were saying. Good. I nailed it all.
Producer Dave (11:42):
Just all of this just kind of keeps coming back to the importance of REI in our ecosystem that we are better off with a healthy REI. Again, I think it cannot be understated how important it is in some areas of the country to people. That is their central way to connect with outdoor community and get the gear that they need to do what they want to do. So I mean, it serves such an important part. And if it does or as it drifts to more, kind of same with some of these other things, we're going to lose that regardless. And we say that not out of spite, but out of just desire to keep that place as we know it. Look, you got to change. You got to grow. I'm all about additional lifestyle categories to the mix. That's the reality of the outdoor participation.
(12:37):
But we do hold them to a higher standard. We do not want them knocking off the vendor partners in such an obvious degree and just undercutting. I don't want them busting unions like a Carnegie. It's just like there's just some things that we like to see as a community. We just want to see them kind of hold themselves to a higher standard in that regard. And so that's on us. That's our own expectation. But I do think this is a good conversation at a place, and I don't want it to become, I dunno, like the h and m of the outdoors.
Colin (13:11):
I think that's probably almost the most likely outcome, right? Because it's not that they're going to go away or all of a sudden REI closes, but you hear stories about how you get into good graces as a vendor with them and the things they will hold over you to order. And I don't want to talk specifically about that here. I dunno if this is the time or place, but how much it costs for you to be able to do clinics in their stores. Those things didn't exist before. And then you look at the who, to my point, what I said earlier, the evolving landscape of who they're bringing on. I have a tough time picturing 1960 seventies REI, not at least engaging in a union conversation now that's run the standard union busting playbook by the numbers. It's different and maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe REI, this stuff just happens and that's just the way it is with REI now, but I don't know, it feels like it's different than it used to be. Well
Producer Dave (14:04):
Look, and nothing is static. So there is an opportunity out there for the next retail group to come up and expand and start to challenge them in markets that they don't. I mean, we see regionals like Evo out here in the west has a unique concept of a multi-sport, multi consumer concept. We've seen a lot of consolidation in the specialty area. And so why not one of the specialty groups start to also expand and build themselves up and start to take more square footage in places? So it's dynamic for sure. This is just the leader that we have and I think we're going to stay focused on it.
Colin (14:44):
Static ropes are static. You said nothing or static Electricity can be static.
Producer Dave (14:51):
Is it real? Can you touch it
Colin (14:54):
When it's dark? You can see it. It's got to be real, right?
Producer Dave (14:58):
Is it like birds?
Colin (15:01):
Well, alright, all this means that it's time, time for our weekly segment to make sure you're getting more out of the outdoors tide for more with thermo.
(15:14):
So we're going to be talking about a headline in a few minutes involving ingredient brands. But before we do that, I want to make sure you all know about the original ingredient brand Themore founded in Italy. Thermo has been making insulation to keep you warm during your outdoor adventures since 1972. But they've also found new and interesting ways to make garments look different with products like Eco down fibers Marble, providing the same level of performance and softness as the's eco down fibers product, which we've talked about a bunch on the show before. Eco down fibers Marble opens a new creative dimension to thermal insulation. Every garment will look different. Thus providing loads of possibilities to designers and allowing them to create unique, one of a kind pieces of art that you can wear. And look here at the rock fight, we know we have the ear of the outdoor industry, so designers and developers out there listening hit up Themore today to learn more about how you can implement eco down fibers marble into your upcoming slate of apparel.
(16:07):
Because whether it's making amazing new garments or it gets you out on the trail, you can do more with themore. All right, well, let's run through some headlines to come out of the outdoor industry over the past week or so, starting with the latest from Black Diamond. SGB reported this week that bds parent Claire's Corporation reported a losing second quarter for the famed climbing brand who reported sales of $36 million compared with 40 million a year ago. This is in line with several other brands earnings that we've talked about recently on the rock flight and is sort of reflective of the current state about your retailer coming out of Covid. But there was one factor that was reported that I thought warranted mentioning because it's the first time I'd seen it referenced in an earnings report, Claris and BD pinned part of the decline on PFAS per the SGB article.
(16:52):
The quote is, the decrease in gross margin was primarily due to an increase in PFAS related inventory reserve expenses. Now separate from the health concerns around PFAS, this is the outcome many have been bracing for since California passed new regulations on products containing PFAS and not to just Monday morning quarterback it, but it's also a problem that most outdoor brands have created for themselves by not being proactive and updating their product lines to remove PAS despite having literal decades of advanced warning, not trying to just pick on BD here. There's been two, if y'all, Raven and Houdini and Keen are the three brands who can say, Hey, we did something about this when we found out about it, no one else really can. There was a lot of good intentions and a lot of follow through, and you can hear all about that if you listen to the latest episode of Gear and Beer on the Rock Fight podcast network and Meg Carney will run you through the history, but it's just a good reminder that it can be a moral and a financial upside. There's a moral and financial upside to doing the right thing that can pay off in the long run. And it's just, this is something I know retailers been bracing for. They've been talking about how is P FFAs going to, can I sell this stuff? What do I do with this stuff? And now we're seeing it in an earnings call that it's negatively impacting the profitability of a brand. And I mean kudos to them for highlighting that,
Producer Dave (18:13):
But nobody likes to report a negative quarter. And so you're always going to be couching it in these macro terms that you can't actually pin anything specific on. And it just sounds like they're dealing with the same issues that everybody else is. We got too much inventory. We have a slowdown in the D two C channels that is affecting everyone. And a lot of these brands leaned more heavily into the D two C over the last few years, so they're kind of double caught with that.
Colin (18:43):
And now the world's fifth largest economy, California says we can't sell half our shit there.
Producer Dave (18:48):
And we told you that years ago that this was coming, right, right. The PFA S feels a little bit like jazz hands, like, Hey, it's not, look over
Colin (18:56):
Here. Look over there.
Producer Dave (18:57):
That's right. And I was kind of surprised that I didn't read something about trying to wedge in an AI something impact on revenue, yada yada
Colin (19:06):
Chat gt, am I right?
Producer Dave (19:08):
That's killing our business. That's exactly right. The negative pressure on revenue due to artificial intelligence something the election. Am I
Colin (19:16):
Right? What else can we jam in this thing?
Producer Dave (19:19):
Right? So I get that, but yeah, it does.
Colin (19:23):
But I'm sure though, I mean if people don't have a plan for what they're going to do with their P FFA s stuff, I mean they're going to have to cross that bridge at some point. I mean, I'm sure Sierra going to be taking all of it at some point for pennies on the
Producer Dave (19:34):
Dollar. I think we are going to thousands of years from now when they dig up the early 21st century time castle, it's just going to be a big two mile pit of gear that their little Geiger counters will go off and oh my God, it's all the hell is in here
Colin (19:53):
Coalesced into a giant ball of just P
Producer Dave (19:55):
FFAs. That's right. It's actually a swirling cauldron of green ooze. That's right.
Colin (20:03):
I mean, it's a good time to do this for bd. We know that we reported, we talked about this before on the show about how they're taking a step back. So I mean it all sort of is in line. And actually our next story shows some optimism for the future, I think. Anyway, let's dig into that because also in SGB this week, parent company Compass Diversified reported this week that two ingredient brands in their portfolio, BOA and PrimaLoft. Is it PrimaLoft or PrimaLoft? I've never gotten a straight answer on this. Do you know? Sure. Okay. They both had profitable second quarters, BOA was up a whopping 42% while PrimaLoft, I'll just go back and forth. It was up 14% for boa. They noted gains in cycling, athletic work wear and snow sports, and also credited an improved inventory position along with market share gains for PrimaLoft.
(20:49):
The success was attributed to an abatement of inventory headwinds to what we were just talking about in the apparel category. And look, we're not financial experts on this show. And for this and the BD story, I'm bringing them up because I think it helps inform trends and opportunities in the industry. I think this one is notable though because brands and suppliers are always working at least a year ahead of the consumer. So the stuff anyone listening to this will buy next year is being made now. So to see two ingredient brands, two suppliers to outdoor brands be up in the second quarter, it's a good sign that things should be improving as we get into 2025.
Producer Dave (21:24):
Oh, no, no, I was just saying in terms of, there's a couple things about the ingredients. I think you did touch on it. They really are the bellwether to kind of foresee what's about to happen or what's going down the pike. And so it is a good sign that we have a couple ingredient brands noting some gains in that does feel like that perhaps some categories are feeling a little better about their inventory and can start to look kind of future-based. And so that's good. With boa, I'm always intrigued by boa. I know, to me it's kind of like, is it finally catching on? I mean, look, they would not be the first technology to be invented and then have to wait a half a century to finally catch, I mean to be real, the phone, the telephone was invented decades before we started using it. So maybe that's BOA's thing is now we were just kind of catching up to what they can offer and who knows, maybe they will play
Colin (22:22):
And we talked about 'em a couple of weeks ago, that might just be new opportunities, just things kind of cropping up, like you said, for pre Lefted apparel though I think kind of like you were saying, it's super encouraging because even on the BD thing, this is all sorts of issues from too much stuff in PFAS that are a challenge. So for Primo office to sell insulation to outdoor brands, to have sales going in the right direction, I mean that's a real indicator I would imagine most suppliers would be, if they're seeing an improvement, I would imagine most suppliers are seeing an improvement.
Producer Dave (22:55):
Right?
Colin (22:57):
Alright, for our last story, I'm going to call a brief ceasefire in my war on Crocs because I kind of want to give them credit for a recent product launch, not for they're making a good product just because I think they managed it correctly. So credit where credit is due, and I think it's something that other brands can learn from, even if they're learning it from Crocs. In per footwear news this past week, Crocs is going to be going to be doing more in the sneaker space based off the success of their mace sneaker drop of the Crocs Juniper, which featured a truly bizarre design by, I believe the designer's name is S Benberry. The $140 sneakers sold out within minutes of release and has since appeared on the secondary marketplace at various multiples of that original price. So Crocs apparently is intending on doing more in the sneaker market.
(23:46):
As I was reflecting on this, I think I would like to see people take the right lessons away from this. And I think that's around exclusivity and creating demand and that being a good thing. I think you can look at sneakerhead culture and new product drops on the more fashion side of the active marketplace that back this up. But I learned this lesson on the outdoor side of things when I was tech prepping for Timberland, it was at the tail end of the Yellow Boot, kind of the urban footwear craze that elevated Timberland from being an outdoor work boot maker to a billion dollar fashion brand. The downside to that success was we lost credibility in outdoor. So this was the early two thousands where outdoor credibility was tied to specifically specialty retail, which is probably why you hear me going on and on about it on this podcast.
(24:27):
I really believe in it. Timberland was selling their outdoor shoes, not just at big sporting good retailers, but also on their website. And this is at a time when D two C was not as accepted as it is today. And as we look to reinvigorate as we were looking to reinvigorate our outdoor position, we created relevant technical savvy shoes, but we sold them exclusively at outdoor specialty. Went out of our way to create FOMO and demand at a time when we were at our least popular. And it worked. I remember sitting in meetings with big box sporting goods dealers who all wanted several of the shoes we had and them getting kind of pissed off that they couldn't have them. And the independence of course being stoked that we were the only place where you could get them. So a diversified distribution strategy is someone, especially someone for someone like Crocs who's definitely matured.
(25:13):
I've admitted we sort of lost the war on Crocs because so many generations now love them. They clearly as super fans who were going to sell out a new style drop. So their shoes may make me want to gag, but they have their fans and their followers. So I think what they ended up doing going forward with these drops, I think this is a model to kind of continue to create new products, interesting products for your fans and drop them in a way that makes them exclusive versus what they might do, which is just to now make shoes like this and sell them where they sell all of their Crocs. I dunno. Dave, what do you think?
Producer Dave (25:50):
Well, fortunately, Crocs doesn't have any authenticity issues that they have to deal with in terms of that's introducing a new category. Unless they introduce a shoe made with nails turned upside down, that goes against their comfort.
Colin (26:06):
They find a way to explain it away. The Crocs fans, we just put our gits on it.
Producer Dave (26:11):
Let's Right, as long as it's put a Gibb on it. That's exactly right. There you go.
Colin (26:15):
Bring it back.
Producer Dave (26:16):
Right? That's right. No, so comfort's their thing. And so look, these do share that. Even that site lick, you look at it, it looks comfortable. And I do think, where else are they going to go? I mean they're already, they're into flip flops, they're into their clogs and I like this. This is what they're doing is, and I dunno if people have seen it.
Colin (26:41):
Yeah, I'll link it in the
Producer Dave (26:42):
Show notes. It really is again, molded around the sidewalls, big heavy molds. It's got
Colin (26:48):
Some, it's like you stepped in a giant dog turd and it curled around your shoe and you're just like, yeah, I'm down with this. I'm just going to keep it.
Producer Dave (26:54):
But it was comfy. But look, there's a whole category that's kind of building up around this. The Hoka or a Primo, even the Space Hippie Nike Space hippie shares, this deconstructed kind of fatter look to it. The Yeezy foam runner shares this. It's not quite a full on molded. Are we still talking about using or the moa? I'm just saying that's what a shoe it looks like. That's true. This is not a judgment and everybody's got their molded Obos has a molded kind of clog. So everyone's got their kind of piece like that. But these kind of extend that by putting actual other materials along with that. And so it kind of gives it that kind of piece together, crafty look. So that's kind of becoming its own category. So that makes sense and I'm glad that they're seeing this as that kind of next step.
(27:46):
I'm not sure what this is though is a go forward design language for what is Crux sneaker and I don't know what that is. I mean it just seems like a one-off or a style that will play out itself for a few seasons that would make sense for something like this and then it'll kind of fade. So I think finding a design language that they could then build off of a durable business would be interesting to see where that goes. But that said, I have been wrong before. When it comes to what kind of a godawful aesthetic is going to take hold, I mean Virum five fingers I believe is a crime against footwear. Ugg and its kind of supremacy today was not inevitable when they started. It was definitely a ugly looking thing. They moved away from their surf roots at a time when surf was pretty big. So even that as a strategy felt a little off. But man, they really leaned into it and hit the luxury side and was able to catch. And then even look brands Healy's, I can't believe they're still in business. I mean there's a thing for Wheels in your shoes and not, I think we're talking about not just something to prop up personal injury lawyers, which again, I'm not sure that totally isn't why they were created by a cabal of personal injury lawyers to spur their business. Saul Goodman is at the head of that.
(29:09):
But anyway,
Colin (29:11):
And Bieber are an interesting pair because both of them were born out of a specific functionality and I feel like both of them, their functionality is objective. I mean if you put on five fingers and you use them in certain ways, they don't look good. They feel weird, but there's really like, oh, I kind of get it, Ugg. It's like, put these on when you get out of the ocean and they're not going to get stinky and they're going to be comfortable and everything. I get it. Again, not a great looking shoe, but brm skyrockets to success and then dies off six months later. Ugg just had a records earning call. So I mean I guess it's not an apples to apples because you're talking about a comfy sort of post surf shoe versus a functional boat or athletic shoe. But it's funny why some things will take hold and endure and other things to your point about we can't really predict exactly what's going to happen here.
Producer Dave (29:58):
The crock clog itself belongs in that category. It
Colin (30:00):
Really does.
Producer Dave (30:01):
It does, right. No doubt. So this is just title. I'll take that. My crossing.
Colin (30:05):
You got to give them credit.
Producer Dave (30:06):
They're a billion company and comfort is where they're leaning into. So their sneaker is going to have to probably find something in that. I know that they also have, hey dudes, which again is the category that they play in, is a tried and true comfort kind of sneaker slide, casual, unfortunate name, but that's another one they're going to have to grow in probably similar ways.
Colin (30:34):
That one, I look at the shoe and I think a trend could get that to take off. Kind of like when Ook got launched, those kinds of things. That shoe can come back into fashion. You do wonder if the name ultimately just weighs it down too much. Not that they can't be successful, but does it stand in the way of truly massive?
Producer Dave (30:52):
They already are. What's that? They kind of already are successful,
Colin (30:55):
Right? Yeah, good point.
Producer Dave (30:56):
Right? I mean it's just like clearly it didn't. Yeah.
Colin (31:02):
Well, alright man, we can wrap it up there. Well, what else is going on this week we got coming up, we're going to have an interview with Steve Copeland from the Outdoor Market Alliance that's going to drop on Wednesday. No, excuse me, I'll drop on Thursday. That'll be the other rock fight episode. Friday Gear and Beer. We're featuring one of the founders of Obras who is a cool new sunglasses brand that's out there. It's our first time having a brand on gear and beer, so check that out over on the gear and beer feed. And then next
Producer Dave (31:24):
Week, live from a van,
Colin (31:26):
Live from a van. We had wifi issues, which you should, if someone's calling in from a van, it was great. And then next week, if all goes well, you're going to get two episodes of headlines. This one, the Industry pod on Monday, Friday will be outdoorsy. Stuff with Hausman and then hopefully maybe an interview in between. So a lot coming up on the Rock Fight Podcast Network. Please make sure you follow and rate the podcast, the Rock flights of production of Rock Fight LLC. Our producer today, as you heard him, was David Kasad. Art direction provided by Sarah. I'm Colin Truth. Thanks for listening. And here to take us out. It's Krista Makes the host of the Krista makes a podcast and lead singer from Less Than Jake, who is on tour over in Amsterdam right now I believe. And he's here to sing the Rock Fight Fight song. We'll see you next time. Rock fighters.
Chris DeMakes (32:12):
Rock fight, rock fight, rock fight, rock fight, rock fight. Rock fight. We go to the rock, fight where we speak our truth, stay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. We talk about human power, outdoor activities and pick bites about topics that we find interesting. Black culture, music, the latest movie reviews, ideas in for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rock. Welcome to.