Today on THE ROCK FIGHT (an outdoor podcast that aims for the head) Colin promises you that he's not trying lure in sponsors or pat himself on the back. Because we're talking podcasts... not the creative side of podcasts but the business side of podcasts.
Podcast advertising is $4 billion large globally. But very few outdoor industry brands and retailers include podcasts as a part of their advertising plans.
To dig into why that is Emily Holland and Angie Marie from Wild Poppy Creative Consulting join Colin on today's show.
With backgrounds in the outdoors, Emily and Angie help podcasters grow their own shows and help brands find suitable partners to help spread their messaging via podcasts. So they're the perfect guests to find out why the industry has such a big blindspot when it comes to their ad strategies and podcasts.
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Episode Transcript
Colin (00:00):
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True. And today on the show we're talking about how the outdoor industry is missing the boat when it comes to podcasts. But before we get to that, a few housekeeping items. Please follow and rate the rock fight wherever you're listening on any podcast app, leave us that five star rating and click follow people. Please click the follow button. And if you like the rock fight, you're definitely going to like gear and beer, so please check out my other podcast on the Rock Fight Podcast network that's called Gear and Beer. You can find it on the app that you're listening to this show on right now. And lastly, we want to hear from you. Send us your feedback by sending an email to my rock fight@gmail.com or hit us up on the socials where we can be found as Rock Fight Co. Alright, one quick break and we'll start the show. Welcome, fight Fight. This episode of the Rock Fight is brought to you by the great Malden Outdoors and outdoor enablement campaign in the city of Malden, Massachusetts, and the brains behind this initiative, Darren Josie. He's here with me right now. Darren, first of all, what is an outdoor enablement campaign?
Darren (01:10):
An outdoor enablement campaign provides four things, advertising, resources, programming and youth development. These are the four things that I believe are really important to getting more people outside.
Colin (01:21):
So why is this campaign important to DEI efforts in the outdoor industry?
Darren (01:25):
We have to start by getting more people outside and that can start their journey from one, becoming someone who just enjoys outdoor recreation as a lifestyle, but two, a path for a job. No one told me that going outside and rock climbing could lead to a job one day or fishing or bike riding. Didn't know that was a thing until I got into the industry and I want to change that and start that journey a lot earlier for way more people in our society.
Colin (01:52):
Hey man. And lastly, how can outdoor brands and retailers help or participate?
Darren (01:55):
Go to the great malden outdoors.com, click on the contact button and reach out. We are always looking for donations for gear, funds and expertise. You can lend your existing staff to lead an online course or if you're in the New England area, come on down and lead a class. We're looking for more programming.
Colin (02:13):
Head to the great malden outdoors.com and click contact to build a partnership today. Alright, today we're talking about podcasts and let me just get ahead of this from the jump. This episode is not a self-serving attempt to lure and sponsors or pat myself on the back. The business side of podcasting is fascinating to me because it's currently a 4 billion industry. That is something you won't routinely find as a part of the advertising plans for most entities in the outdoor industry, and that's because podcasts are the most democratic form of media we've ever had. Any one of you right now listening to this could press pause and go and start your own pod. Now, making a podcast and making a podcast successful is a lot more work than just starting the show. But because podcasts are so accessible, it muddies the waters for brands who should be leveraging their reach and voice on podcasts as a part of their advertising and media strategy.
(03:03):
But they don't because they may carry a bias that podcasts are just some dude sitting in his mom's basement and talking to his pals about movies or politics. And there's some truth there. It wasn't in my mom's basement, but one of my first podcasts was indeed a movie podcast. Now don't go snooping. Those audio files are buried deep, never to again reach any of your ears. But the other side of that coin is that a podcast with a strong point of view and following is a valuable commodity to any brand or retailer looking to serve that podcast audience. So why don't more outdoor industry brands or retailers use the podcast as a way to reach their own audience? Well, to find out, I reached out to Rock Fight Hall of Fame guest Emily Holland and her business partner, Angie Marie, whose creative agency Wild Poppy helps creators grow their own podcasts and helps brands find suitable partners to spread their messaging via podcasts. And both Emily and Angie are on the show today to share their thoughts on this topic. Welcome back to the Rock Fight, where today it's the Outdoor Industries Podcast blind spot with Emily Holland and Angie Marie. Alright, Emily Holland back on the rock fight and this time she's brought with her a friend, business partner co-founder of Wild Poppy Creative Consulting. Angie Marie here. Welcome to the show guys.
Angie (04:14):
Yay boo. Wow. We sound really awake and enthusiastic for right
Colin (04:20):
Now. Yes, we're going to talk about podcast stuff and I think Angie wants to apologize to the audience first and foremost for being a podcast consultant and wearing having a less than desirable microphone situation today.
Angie (04:32):
Yeah, I didn't know we'd get into the public shaming off the bat, but welcome Angie to myself.
Colin (04:40):
We have a very in tune audience. You're like, why is the podcast consultant sounds? Sounds so weird.
Angie (04:44):
It is probably my biggest fear, the fact that I am here to spread good information about podcasting and yet my microphone broke yesterday. It had a good life. That's a lie. It didn't have a great life, but it died anyway, and here I am with an IT type headset and we're just going to roll with it.
Colin (05:02):
We're just going to take it Calls today on the rock fight. What do you got kind of out there guys are you turn it off trouble. We got Angie Marie here. Yeah, that's right. Plug it. Reboot.
Angie (05:13):
Sometimes if you take out the cartridge and blowing in it,
Emily (05:18):
Colin, we're going to ask you a question that we asked each other in the beginning of our podcast yesterday, and that is what type of classic candy are you this week?
Colin (05:29):
This week?
Emily (05:30):
What's the vibe?
Colin (05:32):
Does it change from a week to week basis? It's always Reese's Peanut butter cups. I mean there's no other answer.
Emily (05:36):
What's better?
Colin (05:39):
Okay, first of all, okay, I have thoughts and opinions as you thought this. This is working. Good job. First of all, fuck Fruity Candy. There's no point in it. You can't even list if there's a fruity candy in your top 10, you're doing it wrong. Second, what is better than a Reese's Peanut Cup? I try really hard not to eat sugary things anymore. Doesn't agree with me anymore as I'm getting older. But when Halloween comes around and there's that trick or treat basket from my kids and there's some peanut butter cups sitting on top or we bought it to hand out the trick or treaters or whatever it is so hard to resist. It is truly crack cocaine and an orange wrapper and I cannot resist the peanut butter cup. So I don't know if it would change too much on a weekly to week basis.
Angie (06:24):
I think the important question there is which shape? Because if you're doing the Christmas, Christmas trees not as good. Those Christmas trees put 'em in the trash. But if you have the little mini cups,
Colin (06:34):
I don't know if he put 'em in the trash, but they're definitely not. I think What about the trees versus the Easter R? Ones
Angie (06:41):
Both bad. Too much Peanut butter. Yeah. Ratio bad?
Colin (06:44):
No, the og and they came out with the Slims. I didn't co-sign on the Slims. It's like, what are you doing? Just like you've got a perfection perfect candy. Now that being said, I'm a fan of peanut m and ms. I do like peanut and m and msms a lot. The occasional Snickers or Milky Way, three Musketeers category. I'll play in that world as well. But what were your answers? What were you both this week on a candy front?
Angie (07:06):
Well, you may not be surprised to know that I am a worths hard candy because underrated an old lady. They're underrated. Yes, that's it. That's why, because I am underrated. There is more than meets the eye to me, not because I have tech issues. And I'm an old lady today. That's
Colin (07:22):
Right, because you're a transformer, there's more to meets the eye.
Angie (07:26):
What about you, Emily?
Emily (07:28):
Well, I said, oh, this week on this candy. And then Angie was like, actually, I think you're like that all the time. And I'm going to upset you, Colin, because this is one of my favorite candies and it is the watermelon Sour Patch Kids. I love pretty the idea of first year sour, then you're sweet. And I feel like that actually describes me pretty well. When you first meet me, you might say, Ooh, she's spicy. Maybe she's a little dry sarcastic, maybe she's a little feisty. And then you get in the inside of that and you're like, oh no, she's actually just 75% gooey ooey cries a ton and is super softy. So I think it actually does describe me, even though when Angie said it, I was like, huh, is that really me? But
Angie (08:14):
I thought you were a bit scary at first when I first met you, you seemed very serious.
Emily (08:18):
That's what I want people to really take away from this.
Colin (08:22):
Alright, part of what you both do at Wild Poppy is working with podcast creators to grow their shows. And since a big part of the listenership here on the rock fight are brands and retailers I love today we turn it around to why businesses should be engaging with podcasts as part of their media and advertising strategies. I swear this isn't completely self-serving to get more advertisers to buy spots on the rock fight. Let's necessarily, as you guys are just back from podcast movement, you work with a lot of different clients. You're building your whole business around the podcast space. And I think it's smart because as we're seeing here on the rock fight, there's a lot of growth and energy in this space, but it's still a lot of unknowns. So what don't companies know, I guess is a place to start about leveraging podcasts to grow their brand?
Emily (09:02):
So many things, so many things do they not know. I think the number one thing that perplexes me is just the unwillingness to experiment with a new platform. It seems like similar to so many other aspects of the outdoor industry, brands are like, we've always done it this way. It would be really hard to change our strategies, so we're just not going to do it. And I just think that's really shortsighted. I just don't think that that's a great way to operate when you're a marketing leader and there's actual data that suggests that podcast advertising, meaning partnering with a podcast and having them read the ads in their own voice in an authentic way and potentially adding in some other things like social and email and stuff like that. It delivers 4.9 times the return on ad spend than most of the other media channels that are out there and available to brands. So if you're thinking about bang for Buck, it is one of the highest returns that you can get from brand messaging and conversion standpoint.
Colin (10:10):
So that's the show, my rock fight@gmail.com if you want to advertise. Thank you. That makes for coming on. No, no. And I want to add to your first statement there. It kind of flies in the face of the outdoor industry as the resident old-timer on this call. This is an industry that was built out of innovation and trying new things and literally throwing things at the wall to see what would stick. And usually the people who were the most bold were rewarded, and now it's kind of boring. It's like what? We make a video, we put a few ads in those print magazines that there's barely any left of and that's our ad strategy. That's what seems to be what people do in the industry these days.
Emily (10:46):
Yeah, and I also think that if you're just a listener of podcasts, you know this to be true. You like the host, you come back to a podcast over and over because you like the host, you like the conversations that they're facilitating. And if your brand is associated with that person, over time your brand will have more resonance. People will like your brand more because they like that host more. So there's a real high value in being associated with the culture and engagement that that person has created and that cannot be understated at all. That is so valuable for brands.
Angie (11:22):
I have another stat around that. 75% of podcast listeners are more influenced by podcast hosts than they are by social media influencers. And I think a lot of outdoor brands are really quick to be like, Ooh, let's send a box of 12 different jackets to the social media influencer and they'll do an unboxing video and that's what's going to get us more followers to our own brand when really they could be saving a lot of effort and some money by working with a podcast creator to get people listening to the features of their brand instead of just like, oh, another unboxing video.
Colin (11:58):
Yeah, I have a feeling my listeners are going to think, and this is not sponsored content, I swear. This is truly, I think an interesting point when it looks at the business of the industry and what people actually do, because it's a lot of safe bets it, most of the safe bets are the shallow pool wide net, right? I'm just going to, oh, I'm going to put a lot of effort out and see, get very little back versus a podcast. It's a very deep well, but you're going to get people who pay attention to. I think the hardest metric I've encountered in terms of growing a show is getting people to click follow, which that's a subscriber right on it when it comes on podcasts. And I think it bears out when I think of my own behavior as a podcast listener, I might be quick to quick follow on a show that I want to check out, but I'm equally as quick to unfollow that show if it's like, ah, actually that's not really for me. And this was a lot of, so when you do get people to click and stay with you, it's like they're staying with you. That's something I've noticed as this show has grown. It's like no, the engagement is higher. The people reach out. You see the consumption of episodes go up. And so to have that makes a lot of sense to your stat there, Angie, to say 75%, but they trust the people they're choosing to spend their time with versus I happen to scroll by that on Instagram that one time. Right?
Emily (13:15):
Yeah. And I also think that there's no study behind this thought, but I really feel like on social, even though you follow people and you're interested in what they're doing and you might be influenced by them, it's still this parasocial relationship where you don't really know this person that well and you're seeing the highlight reel a lot of the time podcasting feels more like this is your friend that you're listening to and just think about the instances in which you listen to a podcast on your driving while you're out trail running or backcountry skiing, going up the mountain, all these things, all these intimate moments while you're folding your laundry, that person is in your ear talking to you as if you're on the phone with them like a friend. And that is a really big difference between a normal influencer on social versus podcast host who has developed such a relationship with their audience.
Angie (14:14):
Not to get a little, this almost sounds a little woowoo, but it's not. This is science, right? When your brain takes in sound, it is hitting your eardrums, it's creating vibrations, it's physically touching you. So in a way when you're sharing audio with a listener, you are physically touching them versus just having them scroll and touch a screen love. So just putting that
Colin (14:35):
Out I love. So you're saying the podcasts are dirty? What's going on? I don't understand. Am I committing crimes every time I record a podcast?
Angie (14:43):
They're consensually tuning in,
Colin (14:45):
So I feel like audio porn is probably going to be the next big thing, right? Oh Jesus, you got to figure out this guy for a different episode. I guess it always comes back to that at some point. They're always right there on any innovation. Let's just be honest about
Emily (14:58):
This. Here at the rock fight we are going to talk about touching people's ears and the next stage of
Colin (15:02):
Pornography. You guys there, you're the consultants.
(15:06):
But it make got to beg the question though, I think why do you guys think though that companies have been slow to add podcasts as sort of a consistent line item in their ad spend or planning? This is not data that is not out there. I mean you guys learned a lot going to these shows, but also you think about the experiences that we've had hosting our own pods, all the clients that you've both worked with, what is the hesitation? It does seem like, I'll be honest, in my encounters with potential advertisers and just seeing what a lot of brands especially in the outdoor industry are doing, it doesn't seem like it's a highly adopted medium on which to advertise yet.
Emily (15:44):
Yeah, well a lot of that is you don't know what you don't know. And if you're not familiar with how podcasting works and partnering with podcasters, obviously it's going to feel a bit overwhelming. And just to add some context here, me and Angie work with clients on brand partnerships. So we do have an opinion about this that might go beyond the average person. However, I do think that these creators are just creating awesome content for our outdoor community and they should be rewarded for doing so in a way that is helpful for your brand and helpful for them. So I just want to add the context that of course we work in this space so it feels like, duh, no brainer,
(16:29):
But for brands who have not gone down this path, there's a real opportunity for you to learn about the medium, learn about what you can see as a return and think about what you actually want to get from a platform like this. So some brands are like, we don't care. We just want to support this project that you're working on. Brand awareness is enough for us. So we're not really going to focus on metrics around anything. There's some brands who are like, conversions are the name of the game, we need people to buy this product. Sales are super important to us right now. And then there's some that are in between and they want both and they're kind of understanding of maybe a lack of conversion, but in favor of brand awareness. I think that for other media channels, there's a very clear cut, here's the CPM, here's the amount it takes to get an ad on TV versus print versus whatever.
(17:25):
With niche podcasting, which anything in the outdoor community is niche still. There's no one who is doing something that's outside of niche. And by niche we just mean there's probably not more than I would say in the outdoor industry. There's probably not a podcast that gets more than a hundred thousand listens per episode and that's the big, big Alex Honnold potentially. I'm making an assumption about that. But I would say there's no more than that and we're still in that niche space because the big podcasts, like the armchair experts of the world, they get millions of listens every single episode. So it's a different game. So when you're coming to niche podcasts operating off of what you read about on the internet, A CPM model cost per mil, which is very low per a thousand listenership just doesn't work for niche podcasts, they will not get paid enough. It will not make sense for them to do an ad for $15 on their show.
(18:26):
However,
(18:27):
Everyone in their audience is highly qualified to be a customer of yours as the brand. And therefore I think it's more valuable to work with niche podcasters than it is to spray and pray on the big shows and spend a huge budget just to do that and show up on those shows. So those are a couple of things. I think they're just not really grasping just yet and I'd love to see them take steps to get there.
Colin (18:53):
It makes a ton of sense. I was going a little engagement with our pal Cole at the Backup Country marketing podcast on LinkedIn. Hey
Emily (18:59):
Cole.
Colin (19:00):
Well, I don't know if he listens to my show, but he should. Let's be honest guys. No, but the thing he had put a thing up about outdoor podcasts or approaching the outdoor industry, what could people learn about it if it was considered to be mainstream or what could we learn from mainstream sports? And my potential was like, well, we are the mainstream we're talking about and somewhere between a billion and trillion dollar industry depending on how you slice the pie. So we are the mainstream. That said to exactly what you said though, we are an incredibly fragmented and siloed mainstream, right? It's like I just made this point about some comments I made about outside a couple of days ago. It's like you can't be everything to everyone in the outdoor space, even though I don't get mad at other categories, but I don't play in those categories either.
(19:48):
And then you have the people who, we've talked about this a bunch, right? The skiers and snowmobilers don't get along. The wilderness folks and the mountain bikers don't get along. So you have all these really hardened walls between categories and even if you're not that way, like I said, there's certain things I'm just not interested in. So it is this sort of mainstream thing with a lot of dollars and cents, but if you are in one of these categories, if I do a show about off-road motorcycles right now, my audience is going to be like, what are you doing? That's not what we talk about on the show. They take ownership over the show because they know that what we typically talk about in this. So to your point, it makes a lot of sense about how the typical models don't really apply. So brands sort of have to figure out how to play within those, how it currently exists. That's tough, I guess is the point I'm trying to make. I got there.
Angie (20:42):
Yeah, I don't know if this is worth adding, but I think just to Emily's point there, brands don't understand their options. So yes, one technique you could do is just dynamic ad insertions and it's just something that somebody else handles and your ad pops up in a handful of people's feeds, but there's so much more than that when you're working with niche brands like we're talking about. So with niche creators like we're talking about. So maybe you are leaning into an affiliate partnership. Maybe you have a branded segment, so maybe REI contacts you Colin and says, okay, we're going to do the REI Collins gear pick of the week and every episode you have a five minute sponsored segment that still talks about what your audience cares about and what you care about, but it also has rre i's name on it, REI, if you're listening, we endorse Colin here. So I think that's kind of the first step is a little
Colin (21:40):
Bit ei you should be doing differently. That should be the name of the thing, but anyway, keep going.
Angie (21:43):
Totally. Yeah, but I mean as you know, having controversy gets eyeballs. I mean, if you can be contrarian, which maybe that's your whole brand here, that gets people talking, and so that's another example of being creative. If an outdoor brand wants to create conversation in controversy in an area, conversation is what's going to get there. Hot takes is what's going to get there, and that's a lot easier to do on an audio platform than an Instagram caption or even a blog post. I think something else brands Miss is a podcast episode isn't just something that comes out once a week and then nobody finds it again. There is search engine optimization involved. There's tons of discoverability built into podcasting and people will find that episode years later.
(22:31):
So there's definitely a long lasting effect. There's also the emotional effect. I mean, we're listening to a keynote at podcast movement a couple of weeks ago where they were talking about the left brain versus right brain effects of watching and listening to ads and the emotional aspect that comes out of listening and audio is huge and emotions is what drives people to buy. It's not the facts, it's not the logic, it's not the types of zippers we use in this backpack. It's thinking about that memory of going on your first backpacking trip and taking that sip of coffee and you just love the pink, beautiful sparkly color of that backpack and it reminds you of your childhood and whatever. That sounds a lot more like something you would buy and you can tap into those emotions via audio when you're trying to sell.
Colin (23:17):
We are the ultimate industry for storytelling, to your point, and it's nostalgia and it's experience and it's enlightenment, and it's all of these things that we do through these activities. And so brands should really be focusing on probably how do you tap into those emotions The way I do want to ask you guys, and now this might be a short conversation, but I do have a lot of retailers that listen to this and especially retailers, their independents are in one location. However, I don't know, is there a pathway to the podcast serving that community? I mean, if you have a spot, a shop in one location and podcasts typically have a broader reach, maybe it's not as applicable. I guess if you had e-commerce, maybe it could, but what advice would you give to retailers who are maybe trying to grow their presence in their shops via a podcast?
Emily (24:04):
Yeah, I think that there is opportunity for that if there are hyper localized podcasts in your regions. I think that, and Angie can speak to partnering with local companies for some of her stuff that she does as well. But I think that there is an opportunity if it's localized and if someone has an audience and let's say 50% of them are in one state or something along those lines, that could also be an option too. So asking the podcaster to showcase a little bit more about the location of their listeners and what those types of people are is really helpful. And I will just say, I want to just really make this crystal clear for brands too and retailers, anyone who is having conversations with podcasters, it is worth it to not simply ask for their media kit. If the creator is good, they will have a great conversation with you over the phone and video and you can co-create something together that is way more intriguing and enticing than you just looking at a stupid deck that they're sending over to you. And so I really, really want to promote people who are receiving potentially pitches from people to, if they like the vibe, if they feel good about the pitch originally, to take that time to actually speak with them because they could likely create something way cooler as a proposal than just simply sending over a silly deck.
Angie (25:29):
And on the local side, if you do have say a brick and mortar small town shop, there might be resources depending on what community you live in that already lend itself to partnering on a podcast. I've actually seen podcasts in Utah. I wish I remember specifically what they were, so I could give you a great example right now, but I lived in Utah for a while and there was a podcast related to, it was like the Department of Natural Resources or something like that. There are podcasts for local chambers of commerce. There might be some sort of government or public or private entity in your community that already has a podcast that you can approach them and start maybe being a guest contributor or having special episodes being a guest. That's something I think that brands can think about more too. Even if you're not ready to experiment with ad spends and partnering with creators, of course we still think that's a great way, but maybe dip your toe into the podcasting world by being a representative of your brand on existing podcasts, learning your public speaking skills, being a guest, sharing the stories again behind your brand instead of just the zipper style or whatever it is.
(26:44):
There's a whole bunch of different things that brands can do. You pick how much you want to experiment with, whether it's just becoming a podcast guest, having a branded segment, partnering with a creator for an entire year so that they can build a really deep relationship with their audience. You can create your own mini podcast series to act as lead generation for your business. I know maybe Emily has some different opinions here, but
Colin (27:09):
No, we're getting to that.
Angie (27:11):
Well, you don't have to. I think a lot of people hear podcast and they think massive undertaking weekly episodes for the rest of my life and hiring a bunch of outside editors and marketers. That's not necessarily true. There are people using RSS feeds for even courses. You can have a private RSS feed for a paid offering. If you are a business, say your, we'll just keep using REI and I'm sure REI will never actually do this, but maybe REI wants to have a way to share about the 10 essentials and the gear that you can purchase to help you meet those 10 essentials, but they want to do it in an accessible way that people can learn as they're on the go. Hello. Obviously audio is the way to do that. They could either give this way for free and have it be a one-time series, almost like a serial podcast one and done, or they can make it so that people have to opt in with either an email address or pay something in order to access a private RSS feed and then get that information. There's a million different ways that you can get involved with podcasting. It doesn't just have to be start your brand new podcast that you're going to die with, and it doesn't just have to be dynamic ad insertion for
(28:22):
Brands that might not, or creators that might not even actually know your brand.
Colin (28:26):
I guess that's a really good segue, everything you just said into kind of the big questions. I would think that any brand, if they're listening to this or they're considering podcasts might just be thinking we should start our own podcast because that's almost the knee jerk reaction and I've sat in those rooms. It would make sense. You're a marketing team, we should have a podcast. And it sounds so simple and usually it is simple. The barrier to entry to start a podcast pretty low these days. It's not hard to kind of start. You could do it on your phone if you wanted to. So what do you say to the brands or businesses out there who are considering starting their own podcast?
Emily (29:05):
Listen, I've never seen it done in a way that makes me more excited about the brand. I think, yeah, you definitely can start a podcast. Anyone can start a podcast. Not everyone should start a podcast and if your podcast for your brand is not super high quality, that actually deteriorates my trust of your brand versus ads to it. What I think could be cool is some of those more serialized value add type of podcasts that Angie was just talking about that is cool. But I also think what could be cool is REI did this with wild ideas Worth
Colin (29:46):
Living
Emily (29:47):
Worth Living
Colin (29:48):
Shelby Sweat Pod. Yeah.
Emily (29:49):
Yeah. So I'm pretty sure she started that just on her own and then later on REI kind of jumped on board to support her, and that's a great tactic for just getting your brand associated with something similarly to ads where you're getting your brand associated with something that's already really high quality, but it's not being diluted as a brand asset. And so I think you can play around with the different ways of doing that, but just starting a branded podcast from your company and being like, Hey, marketing vp, you seem like a good guy. Let's put you in the host chair. I don't know that that's the best option for moving forward. And I do think there's already so many great creators out there, how can you kind of tap into them and utilize their audience and their expertise in order to get that thing that you're looking for, which is like building trust with your audience. Fight me, Angie, fight me.
Angie (30:52):
I'll fight a little bit because this again X,
Colin (30:54):
Right? I, I'm going to end a relationship on my podcast today. This is happening, this partnership is over. Let's go.
Angie (31:00):
Or Reese's versus Sour Patch Kids. Okay. I think that everything Emily said, for niche brands like a hundred percent, I think there is a place for big brands to start their own podcast. For example, inside Trader Joe's is Trader Joe's podcast. They are an interesting one because they're pretty big. They have an engaged following for their podcast, not for
Colin (31:24):
Trader Joe as a whole trade. Joe hosts it, the trader Joe, he's the host,
Angie (31:28):
The capital J Joe, but they also, I mean they're doing YouTube, but they're not making videos of their podcast. They are doing the whole just throw a picture up there and let their YouTube run. So they have the resources to do that, and I think this is the big differentiation here is that if you are Trader Joe's, you can get away with anything. You can get Trader Joe himself to come host a podcast about the fun little new snacks that you're having, and they go in and they do all this sound of opening up the package or whatever. And so the reason why Trader Joe's is doing that is because it's giving their audience who is already really big and enthusiastic a closer look at their business, their brand. They're adding humor into it. You get this behind the scenes feeling that you don't get when you just walk into shop.
(32:17):
Then another example that came up at the podcast movement was UNESCO has a leadership for equality show, and I've noticed that they do once a month, they're still going. I think once a month is bare minimum for sure if you're going to have an ongoing podcast, but this humanizes a nonprofit that is worldwide that doesn't a single face to it. So you can add more stories and emotion and human feeling to get people to donate to UNESCO by having a branded podcast. Again, these are huge, I mean, other examples that came up were Dior, right? I couldn't even tell you how expensive a pair of Dior shoes is or if they make shoes, but I do know their reputation and the fact that they specifically made their podcast telling stories about childhood in order to get people to tap into that nostalgia and emotion and like, Ooh, I actually do want to buy a pair of sparkly shoes or whatever by listening to that. Cool, interesting. Probably a good fit for them. If you are a small to medium business though, listening to this right now, probably agree with Emily, you should not be starting your own podcast, but also if you're Trader Joe's listening, talk to us
Colin (33:31):
And I go back to the retailer front. I mean, this is where that might be an interesting perspective from a retailer point of view to start your own pod. You could be make it local stuff, you could make it about your shop, or maybe you just want to talk about outdoorsy topics, and that's your legitimacy as you have an outdoor retailer to kind of back you up. That might be a spot, but think you're right. I think maybe people are getting more and more hip to this. I feel like I do see fewer, maybe I'll stop paying attention anymore. I just feel like there's maybe fewer, the new podcast from this brand that you know of that we all know is going to go away in six months. Like, oh, actually that was really hard. I'm presenting an outdoor media summit this year. Not to give away too much of what I'm going to talk about, but it is about podcasting and it's like, listen, one reason I do this because I genuinely like making podcasts. I gave you guys, I was joking around on something you guys posted about, and I understand why the people who don't like to edit their podcasts. I think my comment was like, who are these podcasters who don't like podcasting? I love editing my podcasts.
Emily (34:25):
You are very unique, Colin.
Colin (34:28):
Well, I love my art and my media, and that's why I'm not on video. All right. I'm an audio guy. No, we've talked about that off mic, but Well, I guess last thing, you guys do have some resources that people can tap into for if you do have a podcast or you're interested in having a podcast, right? What, do you have a group coming up? Do you want to plug that?
Emily (34:47):
Oh, we sure do. Exactly. We sure do. Yeah. So we are launching what's called the Podcasters Collective through our company, wild Poppy Creative Consulting, and this is a free community for our niche podcasters who want more comradery, more connection, more learning. So we're going to have monthly office hours, monthly advice columns, some ad hoc expert sessions, and then we'll have everyone in a Slack channel that can just be ongoing, great conversations in there as well. So I think Angie and I are both, I'll just say it. We are community managers in our different ways, and I think we're really, really excited to just be in it more with the niche podcasters beyond just our paid clients that we have right now. So if you're interested in that, you can go to wild poppy creative co.com/community and sign up for the interest list, and then we'll get going with an application later in September and kick it off in ten one.
Colin (35:48):
Well, thank you both for coming on. This was great, and we're going to hopefully see you guys over on the Gear in Beer feed in the near future as well, because they're doing some gear testing for the Gear and Beer show. Thanks guys. Thanks for coming on.
Emily (36:00):
Thanks for having us, Colin, and just try a little bit more of the fruit, the fruity stuff. Okay.
Colin (36:07):
Yeah,
Emily (36:08):
I'm not, Emily, we're done.
Colin (36:10):
Yeah, yeah. Chocolate all the way.
Emily (36:12):
Okay. I'll go. Thank you.
Colin (36:17):
Alright, that's the show for today. Big thanks to my guests, Emily Holland and Angie Marie. I'd love to hear your feedback on the state of outdoor podcasts or why the brand or retailer you work for does or doesn't advertise using the medium. Send all of your feedback to My rock fight@gmail.com. The rock Fight is a production of Rock Fight LC. Today's episode was produced by me with our direction from Sarah, the pod mother Colin. True. Thank you for listening, and here to take us out is the best tour guide the punk rock Hall of fame has ever seen. It's Krista Makes, and he's going to sing the Rock Fight Fight song right now. We'll see you next time. Rock fighters. Rock fight, rock fight,
Chris DeMakes (36:57):
Rock fight, rock fight, rock fight, rock. Fight to the rock. Fight where we speak our truth, sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. We talk about human power, outdoor activities and big bites about topics that we find interesting like my caution music, the latest movie reviews, ideas for the, this is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak truth.
Emily (37:37):
Welcome to the.
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