Today on THE ROCK FIGHT (an outdoor podcast that aims for the head) outdoor industry insider Eoin Comerford joins Colin and Producer Dave to recap his time at the ISPO trade show in Munich!
Eoin discusses the notable decline in participation and booth sizes at the show and how the changes seen at ISPO can tell us what to expect at future shows in the US. He also talks about his time touring Munich's legendary outdoor retail scene.
Then the trio react to a flurry of industry news to drop over the last week including Merrell's new brand direction and CPO, Cotopaxi's new CEO, and The North Face's latest collaboration, this time with Kim Kardashian's Skims.
Eoin sticks around for The Parting Shot where he takes aim at the poor form some users exhibit in their choice of LinkedIn profile pictures. Producer Dave takes a look at Thermos who is trying to reclaim its title as champion of insulated bottles. And Colin wraps things up by reflecting on the unfortunate closure of the Diamond Brand Gear Company at the hands of Hurricane Helene.
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Episode Transcript
Colin True
00:00:00.360 - 00:02:18.927
For years, outdoor brands have shouted to the skies, each claiming their gear is better, tougher and smarter than the next. They bragged about seams and fabrics, about features you didn't need.
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This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True. It's Monday.
I'm here with producer Dave and Owen Comerford, and today we're gonna talk about what went down last week at one of the biggest outdoor shows in the world. But before we get to that, have you subscribed to the Rock Fight's weekly newsletter?
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Chris DeMakes
00:02:18.991 - 00:02:23.035
Welcome to the Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight.
Colin True
00:02:24.295 - 00:02:46.895
All right, we're mixing up our typical Monday format this week because the OUTDOOR Industries inside man and consigliere to the Rock Fight, Owen Comerford is just back from Ispo, like, what, like 12 hours removed from his flight probably. So Owen is going to sit in with producer Dave and I for the whole show so we can get the lowdown. Welcome back.
Owen, what time zone are you kind of in right now, like physically in your. What does your body feel like?
Eoin Comerford
00:02:46.935 - 00:02:54.459
I think I'm somewhere over the mid. Mid Atlantic, actually. Let's. Let's say the Azores. I wouldn't mind being in the Azores. So that's what we're going to go with.
Producer Dave
00:02:54.587 - 00:02:55.283
That's good.
Colin True
00:02:55.379 - 00:03:07.291
So ISPO is generally regarded, I think, by a lot of people to be kind of the cream of the crop when it comes to the shows for the active sporting and outdoor space. I mean, now, is this first time that ISPO for you? Have you been before?
Eoin Comerford
00:03:07.403 - 00:03:31.793
No, actually, this. This was my first time. You know, my buyers, my chief merchant would go and would always come back raving, just, best show in the world.
You know, so, so big, so many brands, and, you know, I definitely was jonesing to go. But just as a CEO, the investment of time to get over there was just too much. So I just. I could never pull the trigger.
Colin True
00:03:31.889 - 00:03:36.569
Did you see a difference, like just seeing it in person for the first time versus what we typically see here in the States?
Eoin Comerford
00:03:36.697 - 00:03:49.899
Yeah, I mean, it was a little bit different. Just the overall vibe was slightly different. But it was a trade show. You know, I've been to lots of them, and it was. Yeah, it was a trade show at.
Colin True
00:03:49.907 - 00:03:52.451
The end of the day. People's stuff, you know?
Eoin Comerford
00:03:52.483 - 00:03:52.651
Right.
Colin True
00:03:52.683 - 00:03:53.395
Yeah. Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:03:53.515 - 00:04:04.415
And, you know, I think that the thing that everybody had built up for me, that just the basic, incredible size is no longer there just because it's less than half the size of what it was.
Colin True
00:04:04.755 - 00:04:06.371
Oh, no kidding. Is that much smaller?
Eoin Comerford
00:04:06.483 - 00:04:47.369
Yeah. So I did a little research and I pulled up, you can look it up yourself, the PDF of the the hall guide from the 2019 show. Okay.
And to those that haven't been to ISPO. It's all these halls. So there's halls, a one, a two, a three, ba ba da ba. And they go back seemingly forever.
And then B halls and C halls, and they're all kind of separate but interconnected. And back in 2019, we had six times three. So six of each of those halls times ABC. Right. So 18 halls total. This go round, it was three times three.
So nine halls.
Colin True
00:04:47.417 - 00:04:47.841
Oh, wow.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:47.913 - 00:04:51.737
And not entirely full. So. Yeah, yeah.
Colin True
00:04:51.801 - 00:05:04.961
So David and I would get to go over sometimes. Well, every time we worked for Polar Tech and it took multiple attempts to kind of take in the whole show.
Back in the day, like, I mean, you don't just go out and like tour the floor in like 45 minutes. Like you would like an outdoor retailer or something like that.
Producer Dave
00:05:05.033 - 00:05:05.241
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:05.273 - 00:05:50.011
Because the way it broke down though, is. And typically this was the case in the past. The A halls were the outdoor halls. Right.
But in reality, there weren't that many big brand booths like in the past. Again, if you look at the hall planner for 2019, North Face had a huge booth. Columbia had a huge booth.
Marmot had a huge booth, like these monster booths. A. There weren't that many big booths. And the few that were of any size, I think Rab had a big booth just inside the door. Black Yak.
Those are kind of the two big ones, I would say, you know, no U.S. brands. And how about the ski hauls? But there wasn't really a ski haul.
Producer Dave
00:05:50.163 - 00:06:14.871
See, that's another big difference. One of those missing ski hauls.
Those, in fact, back in, you know, just even a few years ago, that was probably the biggest, most impressive of the halls. Because though that was definitely a booth arms race going on.
The Bogners, the Obermeyers, the, you know, the kind of traditional ski brands all just showed up and just massive structures and just. It was amazing. Amazing.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:14.943 - 00:06:20.935
It was. I think. I don't remember seeing any real snow sports. Yeah.
Colin True
00:06:21.055 - 00:06:21.679
Oh, wow.
Eoin Comerford
00:06:21.767 - 00:07:20.783
Yeah. And like even the local German brands weren't there, you know, like Salewa, which is like based like right from Munich. And No.
No Jack Wolf skin that I saw. You know, I mean, it's.
And even Those halls, the A133 halls, there was a lot of fabric and trim suppliers interspersed in there towards the back of each hall. And so it wasn't like they were full of brands. So, you know, clearly facing all the same issues that we're seeing in the US market.
And unfortunately, I think coming up with a similar, in my mind, erroneous Answer which is, oh, we need to move the hall means move the show into the ordering window, right? Yeah. So again, looking back at 2019, the show was, it was the first week in February. Here we are now first week in December.
Okay, so moving it again back into the quote unquote order, right?
Colin True
00:07:20.799 - 00:07:22.247
That's right, right.
Eoin Comerford
00:07:22.431 - 00:09:26.225
And it's just, it's so in my mind wrong headed because these shows were never order writing shows. Right.
And I think the way the logic goes is hey, we're having trouble, you know, attracting brands and we talk to some of the brands and they say, well, you know, the value of the show, we don't really get orders out of the show so we're pulling back. So okay, our answer to that is let's move the show right into the middle of the most important retail timeline. Right.
I mean if you're a retailer, early December is, is that really a time you're going to take and go to a trade show? No, I don't think so.
So you kind of, you move it and you don't get the brands back, which, you know, which is exactly what happened to or you know, when they made this move two or three years ago or whenever it was. And by the way, you also then kind of lose the retailers too because you've moved it into a much, much busier time of the year for them.
So yeah, it's, yeah, the timing is tough because at the end of the day, I think for the brands, a lot of the brands in the, in the, you know, you know, from, from an or perspective they, they would have these really big booths, you know, showing all of their, all of their wares and realize that most of the real action took place, you know, the 20,000 square foot booth, let's say most of the action took place in 200 square foot meeting rooms in the back, which is where you would meet, you know, do top to top meetings and talk strategy. Right. You'd already made your buy for the year but you're talking about what's coming down the pipe. How are we really going to build this thing?
Really getting down to the nuts and bolts that's above just what are we selling but how are we going to sell it together, Co op marketing, yada yada. But I think the trade shows of the world heard, oh okay, not just let's cut down the booths and make it more about networking.
And that piece, it was just like oh no, we wanted to make an order writing show which it's just never going to be.
Colin True
00:09:26.345 - 00:09:35.673
Do you get the Sense that you know, and obviously this seems like a problem like when we're holding the shows and who shows up at them. If we move, if the show moved back to February, do you feel like that's a solve?
Eoin Comerford
00:09:35.729 - 00:09:35.897
Right.
Colin True
00:09:35.921 - 00:10:15.675
Do you feel like people like rush back?
Because one thing I keep thinking about with Switchback coming up in June, which that's our version of the December issue in the US Is the June issue. Right.
And coming out of tre and looking at the enthusiasm coming out of Treasure and I have no doubt that Switchback is going to be well attended but I feel like that's mostly novelty and pent up demand for an event like that. And you kind of wonder where does it go a few years after that. And I think that's kind of the question that needs to be answered like over time.
But it just also, is it simple enough to say, well if we moved it to this better timeframe, we're back to where we were or it's like, oh, more people are going to show up. I don't know if it's that simple.
Eoin Comerford
00:10:15.755 - 00:11:56.065
I don't think it is that simple. I guess I'm glad my job is not to figure out the trade show riddle. Like Sean Smith, great guy. I don't envy him his job with OR and what's ahead.
Yeah, you're trying to put the genie back in the bottle.
I guess if I were really coming at it I would say, okay, how do we get back to how do we create that sense of community, that ability to meet, have top to top meetings in sort of brand centric modes, but maybe not to the same level. Right.
So yeah, you know, almost like take part of the issue I think is the business model is flawed to a degree because it's all about selling square feet. Right.
And it's like, well, okay, if you just want to push for more and more, you know, bigger and bigger arms race, more and more dollars, more and more investment from the brands. That's really. Those days in many cases are gone. Right. So you're kind of working against the tide. So it's like okay, how do we go with the tide?
How do we actually create a show that is this place for people to come together. Right.
Have brand centric moments, have brands have the ability to tell their story without it being all about product and really be more about that coming together. So it's less about how many square feet you're buying and it's more about how we create those networking opportunities and events and moments.
Moments within that bigger show. How exactly you do that? I'm not sure, but I think that's where the value is.
And if you can figure out the relationship between that value and a business model, then I think you might have something.
Producer Dave
00:11:56.185 - 00:12:11.005
There is the business model of running the show. There is the need to sell, I guess, at a trade show. But it's interesting. That's probably the action that's least likely to return.
Just in terms of the way we buy now.
Colin True
00:12:11.665 - 00:12:14.497
You know, we haven't bought at trade shows in decades.
Eoin Comerford
00:12:14.601 - 00:12:15.689
Right. It never was.
Colin True
00:12:15.777 - 00:12:18.385
I mean, regional shows, kind of like false.
Producer Dave
00:12:18.425 - 00:12:44.525
A false. Kind of like, hey, you know, we're not going because it's not in the order window. That's. That's not true.
I mean, it may be kind of true, but you're not going because you don't actually want to sell to the middleman anyway. You want to sell direct to consumer. You want to take the business to yourself.
I feel like there's a disingenuous going on in here where, no, everyone's trying to solve the problem. That's not really the problem.
Colin True
00:12:44.605 - 00:12:50.741
I mean, the order window, it's in the order window and everyone's pissed off about it. Right, Right.
Producer Dave
00:12:50.773 - 00:12:51.597
But it's the idea.
Colin True
00:12:51.701 - 00:12:52.973
No one wants to go when it's.
Producer Dave
00:12:52.989 - 00:13:32.781
In the order window, like Owen was saying. The reason, though, is a industry connective node. Without that, we shrivel. And so the industry needs to.
Brands need to act in the interest of everyone and attend a show. The idea that Wolfskin and Salewa weren't at Ispo, that's crazy. Right now they don't have to have castles, like you said, it's just.
But to be there, to be. Patagonia is a great example of the way they've presented both there. They have cut down their square footage big time.
It's a much more kind of just utilitarian type of approach. But they're there.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:32.973 - 00:15:01.999
But they're there and they're there and they're part of the conversation. They basically anchored the sustainability hub at Ispo. And their booth was. They had a few.
They had one sort of vignette around part of the product line, maybe whatever the new shell is or something. They had literally, I would say, three racks of apparel. Then they had a wornware little section that you could go to.
But the majority, the vast majority of the booth was a cafe. So they were handing out free coffee. Everyone loves free espresso and cappuccinos. And then they had just had some tables, a bunch of tables.
People could sit down and hang out and so they were part of the conversation around sustainability, which is where they want to be. And so I think brands need to think about that.
Like, how can we show up in an event for the industry that isn't just, you know, the two story mega booth, right.
But that talks to our brand, is a meeting place for the people who are interested in our brand, and then have brand events and brand moments throughout the show and at night. I mean, I got to tell you, the stuff at night was probably as important as what happened during the day at any or I've ever been to. Right.
And so, you know, whether you're, whether you're throwing a concert or a show or a party, what have you, that level of community and the fact that your brand is the one bringing that community to the industry, I think created a bunch of goodwill for a lot of brands over the years, which is, which has dissipated.
Colin True
00:15:02.127 - 00:16:53.523
I just come back to. And it's an interesting thing too.
Like there's the generational aspect of it of like, you know, we got to open the conversation like, wow, it's like half the size as it used to be. Which is kind of a common thing. You hear from the people like us who've been at these shows when they've been massive.
And I do think also then you have something like the running event which kind of muddies the waters of this conversation. But that's because that's a run sets a one activity centric show. Right.
David, you even said, I think on the pod when you reacted, when we were talking about our reaction to the show of like the running scene was vibrant and the switchback scene was a little eh. You know, the outdoor part of the running show was a little eh.
And the feedback I got from people I knew who were there from the running side where they're like, oh, I kind of hope the Switchb pack part of the running event goes away because they're going to get their own show now. And so I come back to. On all these things, I think it's the. You said it, Owen. Like, you know, how does it get away from being about the product?
And I think that's such an obvious thing to make it about the product. But maybe this is again just the evolving industry, right? The way we talk about the.
Anything that's, you know, outside is outdoor now and the stuff is all the same and it all works really, really well.
And the one thing I always keep coming back to are these, you know, the offices of outdoor recreation and the economy conferences that they have and that is an opportunity and it's not organized and there's not a national o rec. There's all these things that, challenges that have to be overcome with that.
But when you put under the microscope like these economy conferences and it's a gathering of politicians and climate activists and conservationists and trail advocates as well as business folks as well who work in the industry and if we're looking for sort of a communal place to gather where it doesn't have to be about order writing because like Dave, like you just said, it's not about that and it's not about the product because you can see the product a billion different ways now that you couldn't before.
Is that an opportunity to develop and say, like, hey, here are the gathering places that will impact the industry and the business, but also impacts all these other facets of the outdoors that we talk about constantly?
Eoin Comerford
00:16:53.619 - 00:17:08.080
Yeah. And I think the brand presences should be, you know, what is new and exciting. Right.
Because again, these huge booths would literally have almost the whole assortment for these brands. And 90% of it was the same stuff in maybe a different color.
Producer Dave
00:17:08.152 - 00:17:13.884
Right. They try to put all that into a one page ad too. It's amazing.
Colin True
00:17:14.784 - 00:17:16.168
Vortex jackets and fleeces.
Producer Dave
00:17:16.216 - 00:17:18.244
Yeah. All 150 of them.
Eoin Comerford
00:17:19.184 - 00:18:26.015
Just do a, I don't know, even for a bigger brand. Yes. Do a 40 by 20 booth, but have it just highlight the two or three things that are new and interesting that you want people talking about. Right.
And then the other piece of the show I would say is new emerging brands. Okay.
The brands that maybe everyone hasn't heard about, but really as an industry, let's lift them up because they're bringing new innovation to the, to the industry. Because that's, I think one of the things, and we, we've talked about this, but that's missing in our industry is, is newness and excitement.
And so let's, let's really lift those people up as an industry. Maybe the industry helps sponsor those boots. It isn't on those brands to necessarily pay to play, to be there.
They're, they're, I think they're an attraction to, to folks to come. And, and yet maybe there's a, there's a whole, like for those brands.
Maybe there's a whole section beforehand where there's an educational aspect specifically for emerging brands, where we invite in people from the industry who can help them along the way. Right. And really help make this truly a community aspect.
Producer Dave
00:18:26.055 - 00:19:49.789
I was going to say, I think really what, what you're kind of getting at is in One way the, the trade show model really represents or benefits the old school hard power aspects of commerce. Right. Here's my product, here's my bank account to afford to be here in scale.
I can take you to dinners like it's like it is hard power product and finance. Yeah.
But it seems like, and what's interesting because a lot of these brands would see themselves as this, but we're entering now an age of inclusivity and welcomeness are going to be the soft power skills that brands need to be better at, and they typically haven't been, especially in the business environment. What you're, you know, working together to lift the industry in that way, Pat.
Creating spaces that we can mix in and socialize and discuss that is set the antithesis of the castle, moat walled kind of visions that they've been before. Keep everybody out.
And again, you don't have to be, you know, you can still have trade secret and still want to, you know, kind of keep things, you know, under wraps until you launch. But this is really more of a psychology aspect of the way the industry works together and works with the new.
And it just seems that we're kind of maybe exposing the lack of the soft power welcome and inclusiveness at our brands just in a way that maybe wouldn't expect to see it.
Colin True
00:19:49.837 - 00:20:25.551
So you were posting throughout the week and you can find those posts if you follow Owen on LinkedIn. And we also aggregated all of them and compiled them into one post on Rockfight Co. And the links to both of those destinations are in the show notes.
I did think it's funny to this conversation that you started off like, ah, here's the Patagonia booth and here's some things at the show. And it rapidly switched to, wow, let's go see what's in the marketplace here in Munich.
So as on the heels of this conversation about kind of state of the industry, state of trade shows, you know, what is, what did you notice out in market, you know, doing your market tour of all the really interesting retailers that exist there in Munich and like, how, what does it say about what's happening in the industry?
Eoin Comerford
00:20:25.623 - 00:22:54.925
Yeah, I mean, first of all, if you haven't been to Munich, it's definitely worth the visit. And the one nice thing about them moving the show is it was right in the middle of their, you know, Christmas market, winter market.
So the place was bustling and it's home to some of the great sort of outdoor retailers in Europe and the world, quite frankly. I mean, Sporthouse Schuster is six floors of just, I don't know, visual merchandising Mecca is how I would describe it. It's just phenomenal.
And if you're into that, it's a must visit. Just seeing how they, how they highlight brands just with the vignettes.
Everything from the way that the mannequins are posed to the lighting, to the color stories, to the signage, it's just chef's kiss, just. And then. But you know, a very specific customer. That's a high end store.
What I love is that like the first floor is kind of their outdoor slash urban the space. So. And that's like the impulse buys. Those jackets are only $500.
You just, you know, you've, you picked up, you know, your, your fancy ski outfit up on whatever floor three and you know, you know what, I'm just kind of, as I'm swinging by here, I'm just going to kind of snag a Patagonia or something. Yeah. Impulse buy. So it's. No, it's, it, that's a wonderful experience. But then you can, you know, just, I don't know, a quarter mile away.
You can juxtapose that with Globetrotter, which is a, you know, as I described it in my, in my LinkedIn post, it was, it was like REI flagship store on steroids was kind of the vibe, right. You know, super bright, like, whereas you look at sports shoestries, all this really great Target lighting, like Globetrot's.
Like you're walking into a supermarket but, you know, but everything is laid out perfectly and really with the, the true enthusiast in mind. I mean you go down to the footwear section.
They've got like five or six different terrains that you can test the footwear on, like at different slopes. And there's like a hot, there's like a hot and cold rooms, I think for, for testing, you know, jackets and whatever.
There's there, there's a, it was covered actually when I was there. But there's, there's a big pond in the basement where you can test your kayaks. I mean like for the outdoor. True outdoor lover.
I mean that's also an amazing experience. So, so really fun but, but totally different.
Colin True
00:22:54.965 - 00:23:04.721
So we can't wait to like announce that you're the general manager of Globetrotters. You know us, you get back into the retail game. You should all of a sudden like your retail, you know, love has been triggered here. It sounds.
Producer Dave
00:23:04.833 - 00:23:07.241
Where's Owen? Oh, he's paddling in the basement again.
Eoin Comerford
00:23:07.353 - 00:23:08.817
Yes, that's right.
Colin True
00:23:09.001 - 00:23:13.049
He did three episodes of the Rock fight and then decided to go back to running a shop.
Eoin Comerford
00:23:13.217 - 00:24:13.613
But what it talks to is I think also that, you know, those that are investing in retail are winning right now. Like you look at Dick's Sporting Goods and they call that out in their most recent earnings call.
They're winning because they're investing in house of sport and creating experiences that are drawing in consumers, engaging consumers. And also they're creating experiences that brands really want to be part of, right?
So they have on running, they have Hoka, they have every hot brand, right. They want to be in world of sport and then to maybe a slightly lesser extent into a regular to exporting goods.
You look at the other folks like the academies of the world, they can't even get those brands because that experience is not there. So when you like, while times are a little bit tough right now, if you can invest in retail and invest in experience, you're going to win. Take share.
Yeah. And actually speaking of all the suppliers that were there at ispo, the one with the massive inflatable igloo was our friends at Thermore.
Colin True
00:24:13.709 - 00:24:17.125
Well, speaking of Thermore, good segue. God, it's like you've been doing this forever.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:17.165 - 00:24:18.805
Am I a natural at this or what?
Colin True
00:24:18.965 - 00:26:32.085
This guy just crushing it. Because it's time, guys. It's time for our weekly segment to make sure you're getting more out of the outdoors. It's time for more with Thermore.
There's a lot of talk around here on the rock fight about how outdoor apparel brands are or are not differentiating themselves. And if you're one of those outdoor apparel brands that kind of looks like everyone else, maybe it's time to do things a little differently.
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All right, let's get into a few other things that came out last week while you were dispo and and traveling around the world after a slow week due to Thanksgiving, there was a flurry of C Suite announcements and a few other items that broke late last week. Let's just take a few minutes to rip through some of these. The first one that I wanted to bring up was Merrell, our friends at Merrell.
Because last week Wolverine announced the hiring of Merrell's new cpo.
New Chief Product Officer Noreen Neru Pucci will now be leading Merrell's product strategy specifically to, quote, expand the hiking and footwear brand's lifestyle offerings. I really did not want to make this joke, but I think I will. 2006 wants its strategy back. Meryl.
It sounds pretty well trod ground for big outdoor brands or footwear brands. And now nowhere in the release was the word apparel written. But I kind of feel like that's probably what they're talking about more than anything.
I don't know. Owen, what did you see when you saw this news?
Eoin Comerford
00:26:32.905 - 00:26:39.199
Well, I mean, obviously Merrill has been down the apparel path before. It just didn't, didn't end well.
Colin True
00:26:39.247 - 00:26:40.767
It's been 10 years. It's time again, right?
Eoin Comerford
00:26:40.791 - 00:26:54.319
Isn't that everything that's old is new again?
So the quote from the press release is Meryl's strategic move into the lifestyle segment caters to the growing demand for versatile footwear that seamlessly.
Colin True
00:26:54.367 - 00:26:55.439
That one killed me too.
Eoin Comerford
00:26:55.567 - 00:26:58.955
From outdoor adventures to everyday urban life.
Colin True
00:26:59.415 - 00:27:01.175
Yeah, like, this is a brand new development.
Eoin Comerford
00:27:01.255 - 00:27:06.057
I've never heard this whole seamless urban to outdoor thing before. That is.
Colin True
00:27:06.191 - 00:27:13.749
What did you just say about the one shop you're in, like at the opening, you walk in and there's, hey, there's the urban and outdoor blend. Like it's in market already. Meryl.
Eoin Comerford
00:27:13.797 - 00:27:25.829
Yeah, yeah. This is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Town to trail. Does that, that sound familiar to anybody? Yeah, so. So they do say footwear. So there is no mention of apparel.
So.
Colin True
00:27:25.877 - 00:27:26.229
Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:27:26.317 - 00:27:41.757
But then I took a look at. I'm like, okay, if it were footwear that were going to become more lifestyle y, what would it be?
Because they've already got very lifestyle type sneakers. They've already got like a Crocs homage in the high.
Colin True
00:27:41.821 - 00:27:48.381
If you go to their homepage right now, there's a featured image of a very lifestyle looking shoe on the homepage right now.
Eoin Comerford
00:27:48.573 - 00:28:08.879
So if you look though at the new CPO's background, very impressive. 30 plus years. It's 100%. Apparel is where she was from. So Mizzen in Maine, Calvin Klein, Under Armour, Fila, et cetera.
So I think so is the short answer.
Colin True
00:28:08.927 - 00:28:26.069
Yeah, yeah. And look, I mean, wish her nothing but success. I mean, if she can pull it off, that's great. I just feel like this is. They've tried before.
I saw some comments from retailers, especially retailers on LinkedIn, alluding to like they tried to launch apparel about a decade ago. Dave, any brand thoughts? Any thoughts?
Producer Dave
00:28:26.157 - 00:28:35.229
I think we're all gonna find that somebody just accidentally ran with a 1995 press release and they just put it out there and decided to double down.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:35.357 - 00:28:39.773
So sometimes 2005, let's be fair.
Producer Dave
00:28:39.949 - 00:29:04.053
Oh, I am being fair. In fact, we've actually seen this press release.
We did a whole little history dive into the southern Utah's archive of some of this news and you would be amazed at the same brands talking in the exact same way in the mid-90s, just like you alluded to. It's like, yep, it's mountain to bar or trail to, I don't know, something else. But it's all versatility.
Colin True
00:29:04.069 - 00:29:05.661
It's been a dream since the beginning. Yeah.
Producer Dave
00:29:05.733 - 00:29:09.825
Sustainability. Yes. Yes, we're being sustainable and we're versatile.
Colin True
00:29:10.165 - 00:29:20.625
It's their first thing, their first follow up to this can be like we're thinking about a shoe called the Jungle Moccasin. We're not quite finished on the name yet. That's right. But that's where we think we might be headed first with this initiative.
Producer Dave
00:29:21.135 - 00:29:37.951
Yeah, I did read that quickly, that headline and just realize, you know, just entering the lifestyle market, that's, you know what though, you want to set your goals obtainable. I think that's a really great idea. If they're going to enter the lifestyle market, I think they're going to succeed because they're already there.
Colin True
00:29:38.103 - 00:29:59.337
Yeah.
I guess the last thing to say on this, we move on to the next story is it is funny, like just last week, Owen, I think it was just last week you were mentioning that like, hey, you know, Wolverine, Merrill, they're kind of, you know, they're riding the ship, they're kind of getting it back into place where there's some things are going for their way financially and then this is the immediate follow up to that. I mean that just does that cast doubt for your eyes that the growth continues. Is there a world where this plays.
Eoin Comerford
00:29:59.361 - 00:30:33.293
Out well, hey, you never know. I mean, if they really bring something new and interesting to the market. Hey, absolutely. I think my question is, how are they going to launch it?
Is this going to be D2C only, which is sort of where they ended up on their apparel program before, or are they looking to do a full sell in at retail? And is this going to be more of a capsule collection? So many questions. You never know.
It could work if they can really bring something special to the table.
Producer Dave
00:30:33.429 - 00:30:48.393
Colin, this is just this timeline. It's just this timeline. If it doesn't work, we'll just snip it and we'll do a new one.
Because you know that there's plenty of other Merrell apparel lifestyle timelines out there with differing successes. So I just rely on the tva. Colin, They'll.
Colin True
00:30:48.529 - 00:30:50.129
It's the Wolverine multiverse.
Producer Dave
00:30:50.177 - 00:30:52.249
They'll solve it. The Ameril Wolverth.
Colin True
00:30:52.377 - 00:31:20.845
All right, another thing that was announced last week, Codapoxy announced the hire of Lindsey Shumless. Shoemless. Shumless, I'm going to say Shumless, as their new CEO after prior CEO Damon Wong departed the brand in September.
So Codapoxy is having what some pro sports analysts would call a rebuilding year. Let's say they've had several rounds of layoffs per sources close to the Rock fight.
And this is another CEO coming on board, much like the CPO for Merrell, with a little bit more of a fashion background. What do you make of this one, Owen?
Eoin Comerford
00:31:20.925 - 00:33:29.255
From what I hear in the industry, Cotopaxi was caught with the whole inventory glut, maybe worse than most, just because they were on a much higher growth trajectory. I mean, they were just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom all the way through 22, 23 and then just hit a wall.
And obviously they were projecting it to, to keep going up and up and up. And you know, now, now they're a little challenging. Obviously some of their bigger, bigger retail partners had no open to buy.
So it was sort of a bit of a double whammy there. But yeah, I'm a Cotopaxi fan personally.
You know, just as a retailer, they were a great partner and they actually brought something different to the table, which you need as a retailer. Right. So just in terms of their whole look, the whole color blocking piece, that whole vibe, it was at least different.
You know, it's, it, it passed the big test that I have for every new brand, which is if I cover up the logo, can I tell you what it is? And the answer was yes. Right. So I've been a fan, and even, like, the color blocking thing actually came from the.
The original Del Dia Pacline, where they were taking scraps, right. And making it into these. Into these packs, you know, so. So there's a sustainability story there.
There's also a bit of a uniqueness story because each pack is kind of different because it's made from different scraps. So there's an authenticity with the whole piece that hung together for me that.
The color blocking, obviously they don't do that with the jackets, but. But it worked and it works, and I think it resonated with people as well.
But, yeah, the only challenge is, to a degree, that color blocking can be a little bit polarizing. Right. Either you're into that or you're not.
They were trying to sell in black Kodapaxi down jackets when we were the Moose Draw, and because every other brand, right, black is the number one color. And the answer is, well, we don't need another black down jacket.
Colin True
00:33:29.765 - 00:34:50.204
Right? Well, that's kind of what I get to with them.
I hear what you're saying, and actually it's a good point about covering up the logo and stuff like that, but it also feels like that's a risk as well. Right.
Because if that color blocking falls out of fashion with consumers, are they going to want to continue to support that brand if that's not what people are buying anymore? I've always looked at them as outdoor light, you know, and I think their most notable.
Because their most notable product is probably that Del Dia line you referred to. But. And I have a look recently, but kind of doing some digging a few months ago, like, they don't really even promote it that well.
You go to their website, it's really kind of buried, and I feel like that's the most interesting thing that they do. So even if it's like limited inventory, you'd think they'd be kind of putting that up on a pedestal.
So I just, I think it's a really interesting time in their development. Obviously, they've had success. They're in, you know, they're hundreds or close to 1,000 stores nationwide. Like you said, you had success with them.
You like what they're doing from a lot of their early work in their brand history here. But I just think that the. What is the go forward for them, you know, and I kind of wonder is the.
This is a little bit like some of the REI conversations we have. Like, the new CEO seems have a little bit more of a fashion background.
Is that kind of like where they're headed to be the sort of outdoorsy fashion brand?
Or is it like, is this the time to sort of like, you know, kind of reel it back and create a, become like a true outdoor brand at this point with something that really resonates with enthusiasts?
Eoin Comerford
00:34:50.244 - 00:35:33.813
I don't think they're going to be a quote unquote, true outdoor brand, but I'm not exactly sure what that means.
You know, I mean, Colin, you tend to beat up on outdoor brands for, you know, being all like top of the mountain stuff and it's really just, you know, for walking the dog. Whereas these guys are authentically not about that. They're about being an outdoor lifestyle brand.
So I don't, I don't, I don't think they should take, take a knock for that. But yeah, that's the play. I think leaning into travel is the player.
Their ALPA travel line is really great, award winning wire cutter, wirecutter's best travel packs. So they really have something there in terms of travel. So could they be the next big travel brand maybe?
Colin True
00:35:33.909 - 00:35:54.301
No. And it's a good point. Like, you're right.
If they did go the route of becoming more tricore outdoor, I'd probably just immediately start thinking, what the hell are you doing doing that? I think at the same time, though, it is kind of a funny thing because who else is like codapoxy and this is not a bad thing.
Who else is doing kind of what they're doing or straddling that line and there's not a lot sort of in that lane, so maybe that's just the lane that they own.
Eoin Comerford
00:35:54.373 - 00:36:09.093
Well, Patagonia, I mean, is Patagonia, I would say their lifestyle brand primarily. I don't think of Patagonia necessarily as a super technical, you know, top of the mountain brand at all. And they seem to.
Colin True
00:36:09.109 - 00:36:10.585
I think they would disagree with you.
Eoin Comerford
00:36:10.885 - 00:36:12.597
I think they would disagree with you.
Colin True
00:36:12.701 - 00:36:13.077
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:36:13.141 - 00:36:13.757
Okay.
Colin True
00:36:13.901 - 00:36:15.665
Dave, what do you got on codepoxy?
Producer Dave
00:36:16.325 - 00:36:23.351
No, I think they're the brand that Merrell wants to be. Right. That's the. You said they're a lifestyle.
Colin True
00:36:23.383 - 00:36:24.607
Look at you merging the stories.
Producer Dave
00:36:24.671 - 00:37:16.727
They're an outdoor lifestyle. Brad, unabashedly. I think that's an outdoor light, I think is a position in itself.
Like that's, you know, I guess, you know, you look at, you know, they kind of started with packs, which is kind of gear, and their tagline is gear for good. I would say there's a lot less gear these days. So it's just near for good. But I don't think that that gets in the way of their trajectory and.
Or who's adopted them. Like you said, they came with a color story that was different and unique.
And I, you know, being out here on the west coast in Portland, I definitely see people wearing Kodapaxi every day. And it sends to even kind of distill into a kind of an archetypal customer. At least out here. I think travel is exactly what folks are using this for.
But, you know, Patagonia, they make gear. Of course they make gear. By goodness. They just sell a lot more. That's not gear. But I don't know.
Colin True
00:37:16.751 - 00:37:17.935
They're not a fashion brand.
Eoin Comerford
00:37:18.095 - 00:37:19.079
Don't call them that.
Producer Dave
00:37:19.207 - 00:37:35.059
That cracks me up. But no, I think that this is right for Kodapaxi to lead into that way. I think why not?
I mean, it's just their roots are this and they'll make nice packs and bags, but at the end of the day, it's going to be about their signature outerwear.
Colin True
00:37:35.227 - 00:37:49.123
Well, and to my concern that I always say about is the color blocking going to last? I mean, it's like if they can get over the hump, then this becomes now like the color blocking becomes their iconic part of their brand.
Now they're there with everything else that's kind of evergreen, then that's the win.
Producer Dave
00:37:49.139 - 00:38:24.589
You can still a design style, you know, it works for Burberry for sure. I mean, there's just definite ways to do that. And you got to stick to your guns and really keep pushing it.
I think part of that will be important is will they continue to invest in storytelling that keeps the brand up? I mean, if they're going to be a lifestyle brand, they're a fashion brand. And that means that you've got to change.
Not just your product has to be kind of on trend, your storytelling, you need to up that. And I haven't seen them really invest necessarily into the. That aggressive of the storytelling side that they're going to need to keep seasonal as.
As they mature. For sure.
Colin True
00:38:24.677 - 00:39:01.659
Yeah. And I reached out to the. The PR, the folks who handle PR for code epoxy 2, to see if we could book Lindsey to come on the show and talk about this.
I love that. I'd love to hear what she has to say about her vision. So hopefully that works out. The last headline to tackle is one that made our.
Our consigliere, who is usually pretty calm and measured even right there. He's calling me out, but he did it in a very nice way, send me a downright inflammatory text message from Germany last week.
And in fact, Owen, you were probably just one of three or four people who sent me the story because the North Face is partnering with Kim Kardashian's brand, Skims. What looks like more of a win for skims and something that, you know, maybe the North Face had to do. Like, what do you think about this collab, Owen?
Let it rip.
Eoin Comerford
00:39:01.747 - 00:39:13.137
Well, yeah, the tech started off with what the ever loving. Yeah, it was, you know, I wasn't.
Colin True
00:39:13.161 - 00:39:16.645
Think it was you. I'm like, wait, is this Dave? Like, what's going on? What's going on?
Eoin Comerford
00:39:17.265 - 00:40:32.465
I don't know. North Face collabs, they're always a little bit of a head scratcher. And Gucci and all the rest of it. Hey, you do you, I guess, would be part of it.
But it feels very attention grabby to me. Right? It's like, oh, who's the biggest media influencer? Oh, well, that's Kim Kardashian. How can we do something with her?
Oh, let's do this thing here and let's just take, you know, kind of some core products and we'll do them all in these nude colors and create this very arresting photo campaign. I must admit, it's like, whoa, okay. But, like, really, like, fully nude bodysuits on the. On the ski hill. Okay. So I don't know.
I'm a little flabbergasted, to be honest, but it's going to drop. I checked it on skims.com and the Drop.
So if our podcast is dropping on the morning of Monday, you have 24 hours to get signed up for the big drop, which is at 9am on Tuesday, December 10, where you can snap up these. These amazing products. And you know what? It'll probably do really well and sell out in, like, 20 minutes. So I. I don't know.
Colin True
00:40:32.505 - 00:41:31.045
Well, and I think that's the funny thing that people were sending this to me, like, oh, my God, what do you think about this? And again, my reaction, I think, is what I said back to you.
I'm like, wow, this is kind of another long line of, you know, of North Face collaborations. This one felt like Skims definitely was driving the ship here, right on this one.
And your point about attention grabbing, like, oh, VF Is not having the best time. Maybe they're like, please, like, yeah, we want to. We want to partner with Kim Kardashian, like, get us some good. Some good attention.
Something positive here that will sell out in minutes. And to our conversation about, like, the ultra and smart World collab a few months ago.
This is the kind of stuff we were talking about, like, make it exclusive, make it. Drop it. Make.
Create demand for something instead of just, like, barfing it onto your website and, like, crossing your fingers that people will buy it. So there's a lot here that I frankly kind of like about the execution.
I do think that it is overwhelmingly a skims product that happens to have a North Face logo on it, though. It doesn't. It doesn't look like North Face product at all. Like, I don't know where the north. Like, other than it's a puffy jacket.
I mean, I don't really see the North Face in the product.
Eoin Comerford
00:41:31.165 - 00:41:34.925
It's actually. Supposedly it's a retro noopsie cut on the jacket.
Colin True
00:41:34.965 - 00:41:35.585
Okay.
Eoin Comerford
00:41:36.325 - 00:41:39.585
Yeah, I own a noopsie.
Colin True
00:41:40.245 - 00:41:42.549
I didn't say, oh, it's a noopsie. I didn't go there.
Eoin Comerford
00:41:42.637 - 00:42:08.265
I hope that they didn't make a lot. Not just because. No, seriously, that sounds bad, but. No, the reason I say that is because for this to really work, it has to sell out.
If it can just sell out day one, that's a much bigger thing than if it hangs on and it's on clearance in January. Let it pop, let it go, let it. Let it burn bright, and then move on.
Colin True
00:42:09.685 - 00:42:12.541
The one that Sierra's like, no, no, no, we're not taking this one, guys.
Eoin Comerford
00:42:12.613 - 00:42:13.265
Sorry.
Producer Dave
00:42:14.205 - 00:42:21.901
I just want you to know I've just entered in my email to be the first on the list to know when this goes live on December 10th. So both of you. I know.
Colin True
00:42:21.933 - 00:42:24.773
All right, well, if you get one, you have to pod in it the next time we're all in here, Dave.
Producer Dave
00:42:24.829 - 00:42:45.015
Absolutely.
I am just going to just say, I think if you took away the Kardashian name and described this as two activewear brands collabing who bring different audiences to this, and they're bringing a design sensibility from each, then what's the problem? You know? But when you add the Kardashian piece to that, then it kind of skews the. What's this for?
Colin True
00:42:45.055 - 00:42:48.983
What's about all the outdoorsy people rubbing arms, like, oh, it's Kim Kardashian.
Producer Dave
00:42:49.159 - 00:43:16.179
I see this as a brand that attracts a very broad, diverse group of mostly female consumers that the industry doesn't do very well speaking to. And so if this brings North Face sensibility to this audience, who could get the okay to buy it?
Because also, too, the color palette isn't from outdoor. Maybe also that's why we don't speak to this audience very well. Maybe we're not building color palettes for them.
Eoin Comerford
00:43:16.227 - 00:43:16.459
Right.
Producer Dave
00:43:16.507 - 00:43:26.575
And so I just, I think I'd be totally curious to see how it does. But I like the idea of it for sure. I think that's where I come from. It. And look, it's styli. It's.
Colin True
00:43:26.995 - 00:43:27.283
I'm.
Eoin Comerford
00:43:27.299 - 00:43:47.763
Okay, fair point. You know, like, I think about who's going to wear this and yeah, it's. It. I think, I hope it's a young demographic for sure.
In the fully nude bodysuit on. On the. On the ski hill. But if you really, if you want to stand out right. On the ski hill. It's actually bright colors is not going to do this.
Producer Dave
00:43:47.899 - 00:44:11.383
This is for the schoolyard in cold cities, man. This is going to be in high schools and college campuses all across the north. I think that's what I see this.
The bodysuit is such a pop piece to your point. Like, I mean, yeah, they have controlled that inventory. I don't see a ton on the ski slopes, but waiting for the bus in Philadelphia. Yep.
I might see this bar at the.
Colin True
00:44:11.399 - 00:44:12.815
Ski resort or at the bar.
Producer Dave
00:44:12.935 - 00:44:17.023
Yeah, like. Nah. Some interesting, interesting take there.
Colin True
00:44:17.079 - 00:44:19.543
Well, take it from these three white middle aged men.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:19.679 - 00:44:20.183
Totally.
Producer Dave
00:44:20.239 - 00:44:23.887
Right, Right. Let's see. I can't wait to get in touch.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:23.951 - 00:44:24.359
Yes.
Producer Dave
00:44:24.447 - 00:44:28.555
Now, I can't wait to see how this drops on the 10th. I am. I am here for it.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:28.935 - 00:44:38.699
Well, maybe that'll be the test in the future when this thing is an absolute. Just knock it out of the park. Success. The next time they have one of these, they'll run it by the three of us. And if we hate it, they will.
Producer Dave
00:44:38.747 - 00:44:39.251
That's right.
Colin True
00:44:39.323 - 00:44:39.907
That's right.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:40.011 - 00:44:40.867
We have something.
Producer Dave
00:44:40.971 - 00:44:43.595
They don't get it. We're onto something. Let's go.
Colin True
00:44:43.715 - 00:44:47.203
All right, we're gonna take a quick break. Owen, you gonna stick around for the parting shot?
Eoin Comerford
00:44:47.299 - 00:44:47.795
Sure.
Colin True
00:44:47.915 - 00:46:10.033
All right, we'll be right back. Hey, you outdoor retailers. Hey, listen up. You're sick of it, aren't you?
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Producer Dave
00:46:10.169 - 00:46:12.365
It's time for our parting shot.
Colin True
00:46:14.425 - 00:46:20.317
And I think, I guess, you know, Owen, should you go first? You are, you're first. Time to the parting shot. Do you want to go first? Do you want us to go to first?
Eoin Comerford
00:46:20.441 - 00:46:22.181
Sure. No, no, I'll go.
Colin True
00:46:22.333 - 00:46:23.105
Okay.
Eoin Comerford
00:46:23.725 - 00:48:23.467
So my parting shot, my first parting shot is actually about LinkedIn. As you know, I spend a ton of time on LinkedIn. And one of the things I've noticed, and this rant is about the profile images, okay.
Because LinkedIn is a professional network. And so your profile image is part of your professional presentation. Okay?
So I'm not saying you've got to go out and spend hundreds of dollars on a professional headshot. You know, have a friend take a photo of you or you can do it yourself.
There's videos on YouTube on how to do it, you know, really, you can put something together. But I see so many of these headshots, like, what are we doing? People like. So one of my favorites is the I look cute in this picture.
And, you know, unfortunately, not to be too generalistic here, but young women tend to fall into this where it's like they find the pic of themselves from their own photo reel where they look the best and they crop themselves out of the picture. But you can still see where, you know, where there's somebody's arm is over their shirt shoulder from, you know, from the rest of the photo.
It's like, you know, come on, please. The other big one is, and this is a guy one predominantly is the dash mount, car shot.
If you've seen that one, where, yeah, they're in the car and they got the dash mount, they click the button and that's the pick. You know, it's like, come on, please. A couple other headshot faux pas. The too far away shot, right? Like it's a full body shot.
It's like, okay, I can't even see what you look like.
The other one, and somebody here is guilty of this one is the black and white shot and it's like, hey, you're allowed to do black and white, but only if you are a moody, creative person. Okay. Otherwise, no. So sorry, Colin. Yeah, and so the other is the 20 year old headshot.
It's like, come on, we're not fooling anybody with the headshot from 2005. So. Yeah, with the Polaroid.
Producer Dave
00:48:23.571 - 00:48:27.151
The Polar. Polaroid watermark on the picture.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:27.343 - 00:48:42.155
Yeah, Just way, way, way. Especially when you know somebody, you're like, you haven't looked like that since the Clinton administration. So. Yeah, no.
So anyway, that's what that is, my parting shot.
Colin True
00:48:43.295 - 00:48:50.049
That's a good one. Owen was looking directly at me that entire time, just like I'm talking to you.
Producer Dave
00:48:50.247 - 00:48:53.205
Because you have all three. Colin, yours is medium shot.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:53.285 - 00:48:57.333
You're creating a podcast, so I'm going to give you a slight pass.
Colin True
00:48:57.509 - 00:49:13.005
All right, thank you.
Yeah, I definitely like when there's some interest to it, but yeah, my favorite outdoorsy version of the bad LinkedIn photo is the guy holding a fish that they just caught in the stream. Like, the fish is in the foreground and there's this little tiny, itty bitty body.
Producer Dave
00:49:13.165 - 00:49:26.995
That is a sub genre of it, isn't it? That. Yes, the fish. Yeah, no doubt. I thought he was picking on you because you encapsulated like most of those categories in one shot.
It's a black and white dash cam looking pretty from a medium distance.
Colin True
00:49:27.115 - 00:49:42.681
Listen, our art director worked hard to create some really fun black and white gifs. And then she updated her image like, oh, that's a good idea. I'll do that with mine. There will be a whole rock fight thing.
But now in a couple of days, when you see me in a boring plaid button down with my headshot, it means that like Owen got in my head, guys. So just be prepared.
Producer Dave
00:49:42.753 - 00:49:43.233
Can't wait for it.
Eoin Comerford
00:49:43.249 - 00:49:52.257
Boring Colin is coming. I should be careful, you know, people in glass houses with my, you know, grinning leg that's out there right now. So, Dave, what do you got?
Colin True
00:49:52.281 - 00:49:53.449
What's your parting shot?
Producer Dave
00:49:53.617 - 00:50:05.645
My parting shot. My parting shot today is what's again?
You know, I don't like to take two pointed of shots, but just seeing the press release come across about Thermos. The Thermos brand.
Colin True
00:50:06.065 - 00:50:06.729
Yeah.
Producer Dave
00:50:06.857 - 00:50:41.213
You know, unveiling their new Micro influencer campaign. So they've got a lot of buzzwords in this thing, trying to make them sound very relevant and contemporary. It's just one.
What I thought was interesting is that with all of the talk that we have had about tumblers and liquid holders for the last, what, 10 years or so, and all the money that has gone to that, these categories have grown into these just gigantic retail behemoths. I kind of forgot about Thermos. And there they are. And now we're seeing them with the word micro influencer next to it.
It just seems kind of was kind of jarring.
Colin True
00:50:41.309 - 00:50:42.829
Those are very, very small influencers.
Producer Dave
00:50:42.877 - 00:50:46.683
Well, that's right, that is. And look, as someone who's.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:46.779 - 00:50:49.055
Do they use like tiny little thermoses?
Producer Dave
00:50:49.715 - 00:52:08.971
What's funny is that the picture in the press release is actually of two kids holding them. So it's like. I don't know if they meant to do that or not, but they're totally playing up to that.
Now, look, Micro Influencer, for those that don't know, is instead of following the path that I'm going to hire social media influencers with large audiences, which tend to be very expensive, they also tend to be very broad and not very targeted. You know, you hire smaller individuals, more niche audience members, and you stitch them together into a kind of a larger tapestry.
I think that is the right approach for everybody, frankly. That is a great approach to that. So them doing that totally makes sense. Like I said, it's just interesting.
We haven't heard about them from a while with all these other brands coming up. I would also. And again, this is only speaking kind of to this side, trying to make them cool, I guess, and young.
That would be certainly what they're going for. But as Thermos as kind of the namesake of a category, I mean, they've really created this equity.
This is one of those cases where I might want to say, you know what, you need to kind of be the 800 pound gorilla here. Go in and reassert your authority and dominant. Hey, wait a minute. Everybody here is copying what we have set. This is the original and really?
Eoin Comerford
00:52:09.043 - 00:52:09.203
Yeah.
Colin True
00:52:09.219 - 00:52:10.067
You're fucking Thermos.
Producer Dave
00:52:10.131 - 00:52:16.765
That's right. And lean into that and get the corporate overlords to fund this and really like push back.
Colin True
00:52:17.105 - 00:52:18.425
Like Kleenex or Bandaids.
Producer Dave
00:52:18.465 - 00:53:05.659
That's right. Right. And I think again, big bands trying to seem small never works. It never works. It just. There's something disingenuous about it.
I always use the Nike and skateboarding.
They had such a hard time getting into skateboarding because they were always trying to not be Nike or they would hire a different brand and they would see how small and cool we are. And it wasn't until they finally said, you know what, what, we're Nike and 6.0 and we're going to lean into what makes us good.
And you know what, we're going to make great shoes and we're going to market and we're going to brand and we're going to pay athletes. That's the way you go after it. And that's just something that just kind of struck me.
Again, I don't know the rest of their strategy, but the idea of micro influencer and thermos just together with, you know, just kind of not the height of contemporary branding, but we'll see. That's my brain shot.
Colin True
00:53:05.707 - 00:53:22.223
I do want to picture, I like the idea in my head of, you know, like a year ago as like, you know, Stanley's reaching the apex of its like run as the dominant bottle brand. Like someone in Thermos being like, come on, man, like really, like, we better been around as long as these guys. We can't, we can't do that.
Yeah, we have to deal with camelbak. We had to deal with Nalgene and.
Producer Dave
00:53:22.239 - 00:53:32.031
Hydro Flask and Yeti. Right. And just like, it's like, man, just like each one to Stanley. They've just taken body blows for the last 10 years.
Colin True
00:53:32.223 - 00:55:26.165
All right, my parting shot.
Word came out this past Friday that Diamond brand gear company such as a Asheville, North Carolina based domestic maker of canvas walled tents, is closing after 143 years due to the impact suffered at the hands of Hurricane Helene. And yeah, you heard me right. That's 143 years. This company was founded in 1881 as a Pennsylvanian fur and feather distributor.
Funnily enough, that's producer Dave Sidehustle as a fur and feather distributor.
But before they changed course in the 1920s to focus on canvas goods and then relocate to North Carolina in the 1940s where they began making outdoor gear to sell both in their own shop and at retailers like REI and L.L. bean, which had all happened in the 1960s.
So they make all of their stuff in the USA in Asheville and they became mostly known for their canvas four walled tents. And their website is still up. I encourage you to go look at their products. They're amazing.
And one in particular, the Soldier Crew tent, played a big role, apparently during the Persian Gulf War in 2015, there's a retail arm of diamond that split off became Diamond Brand Outdoors, which is a specialty retail shop. Also sustained some damage during the hurricane, but they're going to remain open. But not so for the venerable diamond brand tent makers.
And a statement from the company's CEO. The damage sustained from the storm was just too much to financially overcome and attempt to rebuild.
We've obviously been vocal about supporting the folks in Asheville because for many, Hurricane Helene may have happened 10 years ago at this point, but Asheville, like so many mountain towns, is dependent on their outdoor industry businesses to thrive. So we want to keep reminding everyone that we need to keep rebuilding that community as top of mind as possible.
And there are resources in the show notes of this episode to support their businesses. But let's pour a little out today for an outdoor icon, maybe one you didn't know about, but that's a hell of a rush.
And you know, this wasn't just another me too tent maker. Okay. This was an outdoor brand doing something truly unique and has been doing so since the fucking 1880s. So thank you, Diamond Brand.
You'll be missed. And that's my parting shot.
Producer Dave
00:55:26.625 - 00:55:35.289
Thank you for exposing me, Colin. I'm now on PETA's 10 most wanted list. Sorry, disappointing.
Colin True
00:55:35.457 - 00:55:37.489
Davesfur.com is getting shut down.
Producer Dave
00:55:37.617 - 00:55:38.965
Dave's fur and feathers.
Colin True
00:55:39.435 - 00:55:40.331
He's fur and feather.
Producer Dave
00:55:40.363 - 00:55:40.531
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:55:40.563 - 00:55:41.895
But all humane, though.
Producer Dave
00:55:42.195 - 00:55:43.899
All humane. Yeah, absolutely.
Colin True
00:55:43.987 - 00:55:47.779
Fake fur. I didn't want it from fake weasels. It's fine.
Producer Dave
00:55:47.947 - 00:55:49.739
There's lots of real weasels.
Colin True
00:55:49.907 - 00:56:13.829
All right, we can wrap it up there. The Rock Fight is a production of Rock Fight llc. Our producer today was, you heard him, fur trapper producer David Car said.
Sarah, thanks for the bad headshot Gensert fur. I'm call it true. Thanks for listening. And guys, he's back to take us out. It's Chris Demes. He's going to sing the Rock Fight fight song.
We'll see you next time. Rock fighters.
Chris DeMakes
00:56:13.917 - 00:57:14.545
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree.
We talk about human powered outdoor activities and pic bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture, music, the latest movie reviews, ideas that aim for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Welcome to the rock pike rock welcome to the rock light Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock light. Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome to the Rock fight, rock fight, Rock fight, rock fight.