Today on THE ROCK FIGHT (an outdoor podcast that aims for the head) Colin opens the show by offering his thoughts on two sustainability focused stories to come out of the outdoor industry in the past week.
Flylow announced the arrival of it's secondhand e-commerce site while Cotopaxi launched a new collection of upcycled garments. And while both initiatives are admirable, outdoor brands are much to dependent on these types of avenues to claim that they are being 'sustainable' and/or 'circular'.
Then Colin & Producer Dave give their initial thoughts on Outdoor Retailer moving to one event per year and wrap up the show with their parting shots.
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Episode Transcript
Colin (00:00):
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True. It's Monday and today on the show we're going to talk about some stories that come out of brand sustainability efforts as well as the end of winter or, but before we get to that, let's get to a few housekeeping items. Please subscribe to The Rock Fight by clicking follow wherever you're listening. It's the best thing you can do for the show and leave us that five star rating. Also, if you like the rock fight, you're definitely going to like gear and beer, so please check out our other podcast on the Rock Fight Podcast network. It's called Gear and Beer. You can find it on the app you're using right now. Lastly, we do want to hear from you.
(00:38):
Send us your feedback by sending an email to my rock fight@gmail.com or reaching out on the socials where we can be found as Rock Fight Co. Alright, let's start the show. Welcome, fight, fight, fight. Alright, we've got a little bit of a shorter episode for you today. This week is going to be packed. We got a lot of pods, a lot of content headed your way, but still some interesting things to talk about today. And for today's Open, I actually just want to comment on a couple of sustainability related stories I saw this past week. The first was from Ski apparel brand Fly Low, who announced their secondhand shop this week. They announced that they're launching a secondhand shop this week, which they're calling Leftover Land. Now. Longtime Rock Fight listeners will probably recall my opinion on the creation of brand specific secondhand shops, but for anyone new, you could probably guess.
(01:29):
I'm not really a fan. I think brand specific secondhand shops and all due respect to the employees at these brands and the agencies involved who spend time developing, launching, maintaining these websites. But brand specific secondhand shops are an incredibly ineffective way to basically check a box. The brand gets to talk about how they're contributing to the circular economy and make a real difference in providing options to the consumer in a more sustainable way. And the circularity and sustainability conversation in the outdoor industry and in every industry in fact, is largely driven by companies and brands who are looking for the simplest and cheapest way to make it look like they're doing something meaningful instead of doing the really hard thing, which would be overhauling their supply chain and manufacturing processes instead of trying to justify the damage after the fact. So in our outdoor world as a result of this, you get Arc TerraX, regear, Patagonia, war Wear, wor Wear, the North Face, renewed Steel, second turn, outer known outer worn on running onward. I'm sure a bunch more that I'm missing.
Producer Dave (02:34):
Yeah, Rab second stitch.
Colin (02:37):
There we go.
Producer Dave (02:38):
And REI resupply.
Colin (02:40):
Oh, kind of like that one. That's a good name. Resupply like going to a waste station to resupply.
Producer Dave (02:47):
I agree. I do think everybody follows a similar playbook though. There's got to be better ways to attract attention to your reprogram.
Colin (02:56):
Yeah, it's an easy on paper thing to do. I'm sure it's hard to execute, but it's just like, oh, we'll have a secondhand shop and everyone will appraise us for us. Now Fly Low did do something interesting in their approach to their own secondhand shop. They had a good sense to partner with Gear Trade who's an online secondhand retailer, and gear trade is there to handle the secondhand infrastructure and in full disclosure, they gear trade's a one-time sponsor of the Rock fight. The acquisition of product and logistics to warehouse and to ship that product is the most difficult and costly part of a secondhand endeavor. So using someone like your trade makes a ton of sense, but a lack of profits is why I call this a box checking exercise for outdoor brands because it's a chance to make it look like they're doing something to solve a problem when in fact they're not.
(03:40):
It just ends up being something to market. For example, perhaps maybe the most celebrated brand to have a secondhand shop is Patagonia's Wor Wear. So wor Wear has been around since 2013. I looked that up this morning. I can't believe it's been that long, but it has been and it still represents less than 1% of Patagonia sales. So seeing a small brand like Fly Low look for innovative ways to participate without overextending themselves, that's great, but will it have an impact? Like I was saying, probably not on a superficial level. Again, I'm going completely superficial level, this maybe isn't fair, but I'm going to say it anyway. Leftover Land is a terrible name. It sounds like something that came out of the Lego movie. And then one of the perks they're touting when the site launches is the ability to buy the secondhand ski bibs of a famous skier that I didn't recognize and Fly Low's founder, like their game worn Jason Tatum jerseys from the clinching game of the NBA finals or something like that.
(04:31):
And then on the sustainability front, so the more kind of down and dirty meaningful part of this, not just the superficial side, secondhand is just a uphill battle ahead of it, like Wilderness Exchange. The owner Don Bushy told me when he was on the show a few weeks ago, creating a meaningful marketplace out of our community's used stuff is a challenge. You have inconsistent inventory both in quantity and in quality and in the store on the store side, if you have secondhand stuff in your store, you have major challenges when it comes to merchandising. Now we do have more coming on this frontier on the rock fight next month, the founder of Out and Back, which is a organization that's aiming to solve some of these challenges. That founder will be joining us in the show to talk more in depth about how those challenges can be overcome. So more to come on the secondhand front, but I mentioned there are two stories that I wanted to touch on. The second story this week that had a sustainability bent was Code Epoxy's new, I hope I'm saying this correctly, Renovo collection, which may also be the name of a European car brand. I don't know, but you're at the airport. Can I get one of those Renovo? I don't know.
Producer Dave (05:34):
Or it's a topical cream.
Colin (05:39):
A combination of both. Dude, did you have to get the Renovo? Oh, it kind of stings, doesn't it? Right? That's
Producer Dave (05:45):
Right.
Colin (05:46):
It's rough if you need the Renovo
Producer Dave (05:47):
Or it feels much better after some Renovo.
Colin (05:49):
I made some bad choices and had to get some renovo. So it's a collection of garments made from a hundred percent upcycled in quotes here, upcycled pre love code epoxy products, and it's also vying with fly low leftover land for title of worst name of the bunch. I mean we give a lot of credit to the names, right? Resupply, that was a good one. Renovo and Leftover Land, not good,
Producer Dave (06:17):
Right? No. And look, they're still leaving a whole lot on the table. Colin, to be fair, naming could really be a great entryway for people to discover what you're doing and want to participate. I think we're really not trying very hard by just sticking with this kind of theme. I've got some ideas though for other brands that could possibly name themselves.
Colin (06:36):
You have a list?
Producer Dave (06:38):
Sure, sure. I mean, I'm going to go with the OG Outdoor brands. I think first up is Royal Robins, right? Classic outdoor brand. I think if we put a little fun in this, we could have Royal's remix dance party. I mean, who doesn't want to go to a dance party? What
Colin (06:52):
Are you doing this weekend? And man, I'm shopping at
Producer Dave (06:54):
Royals
Colin (06:55):
Max dance party,
Producer Dave (06:55):
Dude, I want to go. I want to go great. I want to buy something from that place would be great. I think you could also really play to the origin of the brand Osprey. They could be the hatching patch, right? That just sounds like something I want to go do. I'm going to Hatch Egg Cracked Egg as a logo. See right now you've got the whole kids market. You can take a adult-sized garment, cut it in two, and now you have two kids garments.
Colin (07:22):
You can pack it inside math on those eggs that you have to hit with a hammer to open it up.
Producer Dave (07:26):
Dude, the math works out, I think. And then finally for Marmot, again, another OG brand, want to get them into the space. I think they should go back on their roots as really a forward generational thinking kind of brand. And we could have the Marmite Reloaded. I think there's a really neo contend we get the
Colin (07:45):
Wakowski to the Wachowski to direct any videos we want to make for Marvin Reloaded. Yes,
Producer Dave (07:50):
Yes. Little
Colin (07:51):
Mar too into the neo backend thing. Oh
Producer Dave (07:53):
Dude, okay. It writes itself frankly. I mean it worked for Kia Souls, right? So they had the, didn't they have the squirrels?
Colin (08:02):
Was that what it was like Kia? It was Kia, right? Yeah,
Producer Dave (08:04):
They were the sters Think so, right? The hamsters. That's right. They had the hamsters, right? Yeah. I think a Neo Marmite taking on the Matrix would be fantastic.
Colin (08:16):
I know we're talking about reusing and sustainability and stuff, but I would absolutely buy a Marmite Reloaded T-shirt and happily wear that around and just sleep well at night knowing I damaged the world to make that T-shirt. I don't care. I want a Marmon reloaded.
Producer Dave (08:32):
I believe we will get on that.
Colin (08:33):
So anyway,
Producer Dave (08:34):
Sorry to interrupt your,
Colin (08:36):
I
Producer Dave (08:36):
Think that's thoughtful discussion.
Colin (08:37):
You're doing a valuable service there. Producer
Producer Dave (08:39):
Dave. I just couldn't hold back and I want to produce Royal's remix Dance Party. I can tell you,
Colin (08:46):
I don't mean to be mean-spirited too, because we're not here to really criticize too much Code Epoxy or Fly Low, but any of those names would've been better. And if you really have questions about why we're so picky about it, we did an episode about the brand asshole probably, I don't know, six, seven months ago. Go beg in the back catalogs. You can hear why that's an important service that is not being fulfilled in the outdoor space.
Producer Dave (09:05):
Colin, you should please repost the job description.
Colin (09:09):
Yes,
Producer Dave (09:10):
For that role.
Colin (09:11):
Yeah, we'll put it in next week's newsletter too.
Producer Dave (09:13):
That's right. We want to be helpful.
Colin (09:15):
So the whole thing with the Renovo line, right, is it's making something new out of something old. And that is right there in the brand sustainability playbook as this enticing way to have consumers feel good about their purchase in their press release about Renovo Code. Code Epoxy said, the collection highlights the brand's commitment to sustainability. And I'm quoting here by deepening the circularity story, by creating products from upcycled co epoxy garments and look similarly to fly low. There are commendable actions here. I'm not just trying to throw rocks needlessly or say that there aren't good intentions. There are, even if I don't really think that there's going to have as much of an impact as these brands think they're going to have. Is it objectively better to reuse stuff than to just throw it away? Of course. But when you weigh that against the amount of stuff that is made in discarded in both the outdoor space and the fashion industry in general, this doesn't amount to much.
(10:11):
Like I said, these types of efforts are at best stop gaps. They're not solutions. It's a way for brands to sell an environmental story to consumers so that consumers feel good buying a new jacket. And the only way this gets better is if brands either start investing in better practices and the manufacturing and distribution process, which means lower profits while those practices are being established or if regulations are put into place to make them do it. That's kind of it. And lastly, I will throw one special rock at the way the word circularity has somehow in the last, I feel like six months just moved into the way the garments are being marketed. So circularity by its definition is meant to reduce or eliminate waste. The act of making something from an existing thing is not circularity unless that thing will eventually stay out of a landfill. So to say you're deepening, your circularity story is false, but you're making something new is objectively better than just chucking it. But it's not circularity and that's not on just code epoxy. I see everybody just throwing that word around now. It's like, ah, circular. It's like, well no, unless you did tell me that it's not going to end up in a landfill. It is not circular. So that was just my one last throw there. But Dave, any thoughts more broadly beyond the list of brand names for the second names
Producer Dave (11:31):
Beyond poor naming choices of our outdoor brethren? Yeah, see, this is just where we keep picking around the edges of this issue. And this week it's circularity and next week it's reclaim and next week it's what are we putting in our stuff? This is a whole industry problem and solution. Anything that does not encompass what I would say the three kind of tiers of manufacturer brand and consumer isn't really going to move this forward in a meaningful way. Everybody knows the issues, but no one can actually take the step to do something. Like on one end you have the manufacturers, they're the ones that actually have to figure out the problem. They have to invent the process. That's the industrial side of this that has to be figured out on the other end. You have the consumer behavior issue. We have to consume less. We have to be willing to make conscious choices in a meaningful way to drive this system. And in the middle you have the brands, they have the relationship with the consumer and the ability to create behavior change. And they have the relationships with the manufacturers. They're the ones that actually have to pay the prices to create those innovations and change. So they have such this outsized important role in this piece that setting up another reclaim shop isn't getting at the real issue. And above all, this of course is the one entity that can affect all three and which is the government regulation.
(13:15):
That's the one that can kind of compel everybody. However, if history is a guide, government runs 40 to 50 years behind the problem. I mean, in our case, we have a main political party that celebrates the idea. There is no problem. And so this notion that they're going to be able to create this top down pressure on it isn't realistic either. I mean it's starting to move, but again, we're talking 40 to 50 years after the fact here. And so now we wonder why we're in a state of crisis. But to be clear, and in all of this, there is no meaningful scenario that doesn't take all of those entities changing appreciably their business models to a place where we see increased cost of goods and a decreased demand of consumption. And if you take those two realities as the new future must embody that, it's no wonder brands would rather perform at it than actually address the profit or margin sucking notion that has to happen to make this forward. And so what we get is basically a bunch of fiddlers masquerading as seamstresses and Taylors repairing your climbing trousers while the equivalent of 657 roman coliseums worth of apparel waste each year continues just to stack and burn and stack. Is that a real number?
(14:39):
That is a real number.
Colin (14:41):
Is that fashion in general or is that outdoor?
Producer Dave (14:43):
That's everybody. That's
Colin (14:44):
All the same. It's a much
Producer Dave (14:45):
Bigger number based on the idea that 92 million tons of textile waste a year, the coliseum can hold about 1.4 million cubic meters of volume divide by two, right? There you go. But point being that this is a holistic problem, we talk about it so much in these little kind of silos.
Colin (15:06):
It's another
Producer Dave (15:06):
Outdoor
Colin (15:07):
Topic. I mean, how many of these
Producer Dave (15:08):
Are we going to have another outdoor silo topic? So without addressing that, we're not getting at it. And there's obviously you can go deep on all three of those kind of points, manufacturer brand and consumer behavior of what needs to be done. But until we're looking at it meaningfully with the idea that the business model is going to change, it's not going to change.
Colin (15:29):
I don't know how. I love to be in some of these conversations when they're being hatched at these brands. I get how it makes sense to say, oh, we should have a secondhand shop and consumers can send us back their stuff and we'll sell it on our store. But it doesn't take that much thought to really think of the problems that go with the secondhand model. It's like, okay, what great you get? How much stuff are you going to get back? What are the ranges? What is wrong with it? Now you have to have staff evaluating it being are there stains, are there imperfections? Is there damage? I mean all of these little logistical things compared against how many are you actually going to sell on the fly low site? Now that's being handled by gear trade, so there's a little bit more infrastructure there for that.
(16:10):
But all the other brands that you mentioned that I mentioned that do have a store, and frankly the ones you mentioned, you made up store names, maybe they have a store too, or if they don't, they're probably working on one and it just doesn't add up. And this is another spot where it's like if the industry could sort of coalesce around all the bigger picture stuff that you just described, that has to happen. But even this one, if everyone said, Hey, why don't we just kind of develop a marketplace for our secondhand stuff and pool our resources, who doesn't want to do that? Oh, I got it. You want to make sure you're going to be competitive and say, no, we are going to do our own thing. And that's what they're all going to do because that's the history of these brands and just how they want the credit for everything that they do without actually going the extra mile to do it the right way.
Producer Dave (16:53):
Well, the extra mile starts, like I said, is a change in business model. And
Colin (17:00):
Yeah, the silos thing is huge. And I just think that is absolutely, these guys need to start thinking about it differently. And I don't know where that starts or where it begins or who's going to be the one who says, we'll go
Producer Dave (17:12):
First. Right? Well, and that's that where the fourth leg comes in in terms of some form of regulatory system have a forced upon you that can compel these types of changes. And that's not comfortable for anyone really. But that's what we're looking at.
Colin (17:29):
Well wait, the recent example of PFAS, we've known for over a decade now that everybody should be doing more, 15 years more I think, right? And only now is like, oh, we got to do something because the government's saying,
Producer Dave (17:38):
I have to. You look at the response to what's going on in Europe in terms of France and also to the New York law, it's starting to come and people aren't going to like it necessarily in terms of if these type of reality decisions have to be made on what can be produced and how it's produced. But yeah, it's definitely going to have to occupy more though of the holistic approach model than this walled garden of invasive species.
Colin (18:05):
As a marketer, how do you feel about what I said about circularity?
Producer Dave (18:08):
Look, we need language that it's never going to be perfect, but 99% of the people don't have time to go deep on what these meetings are and the real nuance behind language. So if sustainability gets the job done, if circularity, are these going to be abused and weakened? Yes, but we still need a common language that we can agree to in order to talk about these issues. And so if that's one wrong, got it. But we know that circularity is right now covering for a lot of inadequacies to the actual idea of pure circularity. So be it, right? I would like to be able to get to the day where you don't need these terms because that's the norm. The norm is already making things that way. And you know what we see generationally, each generation becomes a little bit more of the norm and it moves slow, but Gen Z has a much different view of what should be normal for this. Now are they acting on their wallets? Maybe research would probably say not quite as much, but definitely beginning or taking the mantle up from previous generations.
Colin (19:18):
I mean, can we verify that Norman Vera had a son? Because we'd have to rely on norm's son, I think to solve this problem, right? Because Norm is probably too old, I would think, unless he's still sitting on that bar stool.
Producer Dave (19:28):
Let's be clear. Daughter's the one that's going to solve the problem.
Colin (19:32):
So Norma. Norma,
Producer Dave (19:35):
Yeah. Yeah, you leave it up to his son, we're doomed.
Colin (19:41):
All right, man. Well that means it's time for our weekly segment to make sure you are getting more out of the outdoors. It's time for more with Themore. So in the open today, we obviously talked a lot about sustainability. And one thing and apparel brand can do to improve its sustainability is leverage the prowess of ingredient brands for the components inside their garments. Ingredient brands put a name on the line to back up claims of performance and quality. So if you're an apparel designer and an outdoor apparel brand, you need to be working with the original Italian ingredient brand Themore founded in 1972. Themore has an option for any type of insulation, a garment needs. You will love the flexibility their lineup of products will afford whatever it is you are trying to create for consumers. You know, want the best inside whatever it is that you're wearing.
(20:29):
So that means you're looking for themore. You can find Themore on the inside of brands like Carbon Steel on running Cool and 66 North because whether it's making amazing new garments or staying warm and safe out on the trail, you can do more with Themore. So word broke last week, the Outdoor retailer trade show would be combining their winter show with their spring show to be one singular event held in June. This move puts an end to ORs winter market, which has occurred every year since 1990. And in an interview with the Daily Show director, Sean Smith said that, or is not canceling the November show, but making the show more comprehensive by going to once a year. Now Sean is actually coming on the rock fight this week, so we don't need to speculate too much as we'll be able to ask him all of our questions.
Producer Dave (21:14):
When is he coming on, Colin?
Colin (21:15):
He'll be on Wednesday. I had to think of our schedule for a second. Yes, we're talking tomorrow. He'll be on Wednesday. There's Wednesday. So that's called a teaser. Folks come back on Wednesday for the Sean Smith interview. In fact, if you follow and subscribe to the show, it'll just show up in your app, so you should do that, right? But I'm kind of just thinking about this. I'm sort of astounded at the forces that are currently shaping our industry's events. It's a huge topic. Obviously we talk about a lot here on the rock fight, but I think for this one, it's fair to say it was a hundred percent the right move. I mean, moving the winter show to November is probably a decision that or and Emerald Exposition who owns or I got to think that's something they would probably regret at this point. I'm sure Sean will say something similar when we have 'em on.
(21:56):
Maybe not, but I'd be surprised if not, even though I was at this past summer show in Day View War ii, that was, it's seemingly brimming with optimism. There were still a lot of people who were in this industry that did not attend and look at or as basically being dead. I've had to tell people a lot like, oh, we had a good experience going. Most people just sort of knee-jerk to the show irrelevant at this point. So if any of them were to turn up at a November show that wasn't as good as this past summers, it would definitely have been a bad scene. Plus then you have the added pressure of a stacked roster at the running event and switchback, which I looked at their floor plan this week, is quite large. So like I said, we'll learn more from Sean later this week, but it does feel like though, even if they do everything right here, there's going to be headwinds. So this was probably the right move.
Producer Dave (22:40):
And to be fair, there's been no winter market since they moved it to November.
Colin (22:44):
Yeah, that's a good point,
Producer Dave (22:46):
Right? I mean really it hasn't been the winter market, so really they just canceled fall or and they didn't cancel winter, they canceled fall, or which we didn't really need a fall, but maybe that means there could be a return to winter or
Colin (23:03):
Maybe I always looked at that when we got those in the years past 10, 15 years ago. We'd always get to survey after the show and a lot of the moves they would make, I feel like an outdoor retailer was always in response to what they said they got in the surveys. And my inclination was that there was probably not a lot of big majorities in those surveys. A lot of like 20% here, 30% here, very much split decisions on a lot of the questions they asked, especially when it came to when they hold the show. And I just felt very, what are you giving up when you move this thing to November? I mean, the reason you went to the January show, which is we've established here on the podcast a lot that no one's writing orders to these shows anyway. So if it's truly just the gathering of the tribe, it's truly the idea of getting together twice a year. Okay? You go in January so that you can go to the On Snow demo and your team can go up to Brighton one night and you can be in the winter environment with the other winter folks and it's a marketing show and you're seeing it in the environment and now you're putting it in November, which November anywhere even in where it snows is not going to be great.
(24:12):
It felt very like a knee jerk move.
Producer Dave (24:14):
I agree. And again, trying to find a middle ground for everybody's sales cycles and things like that. And look, we know who had the biggest booths and the most to gain from having this set up. So this was built for the apparel makers?
Colin (24:32):
Yeah,
Producer Dave (24:32):
Exactly. And then they're the first to leave. So I think that just kind of left a hole there, but if you follow this out, Colin, if you game this out, so June is the next, that's really kind of late spring. So maybe we cancel late spring and move back to early August for a proper summer. Or I see a future where, or is in January and in August. Wouldn't that be just like old times? Just like old times? That's right. And I'll tell you, you do that and the Black Eyed Peas will reappear at Portico.
Colin (25:07):
Yeah, it just seems like there's more and more events coming out, so it'll be interesting to see how this does all play out for sure. But yeah, let's move into our parting shots. So you want to go first or you want me to go first? Oh, go ahead. Well, I'm going to take a cue from you producer Dave, and instead of just being an angry, ranting, middle-aged white guy, I'm going to give someone a plug today. So my parting shot, if there's a shot part of it, it's for an outdoor media here in the US because we should all be paying attention to what is happening with outdoor media in Australia. Have you heard of Adventure Entertainment? Dave? I know you have because we've talked about it, but I bet anyone listening to this, I bet you haven't. Adventure Entertainment is a outdoor media, I guess they're a conglomerate.
(25:49):
You want to call 'em organization in Australia. They publish eight different outdoor magazines, print eight different outdoor magazines. I actually just got a bundle of a copy of each of them in the mail today, and I'm excited to actually sit and hold these magazines and read them. They look great. They have their Rowan streaming service. They have a ton of film tours, the five summer Stories film tour. They're doing a climbing film tour, fly fishing film tour, our TerraX winter film tour, and they tour these here in the US and all over the world. I had the chance to talk with our CEOA guy named Toby Reon Pratt, and he's going to be coming on the rock fight sometime in the next month and everything they're doing, it kind of makes me think of what everyone wants. The outdoor media conglomerate that shall not be named to be doing only they're doing it with authenticity and verb and with a leader who gets it. So check them out. The website is adventure entertainment.com. Go stoked to have discovered these guys. That's my party shot.
Producer Dave (26:47):
Okay, well I'm going to reverse the trend and I'm going to
Colin (26:50):
Borrow
Producer Dave (26:50):
From your white guy complaints. Yeah, go white guy complaints and go new segment day. My party shot is the low energy, bad bastard music that accompanies every TikTok or Instagram story about some drop dead gorgeous hiking spot, right? They've got someone who's, they've made the trek out there. I mean the water is glacier fed and reflecting the sky. It's just beautiful. And we've got to get the same Elliot Smith depressing, trying to be inspirational, but it always comes kind of downbeat with it and it's just like, what the heck? What the heck? It's like I realize you want kind of nature and quiet while you're enjoying it, but that does not mean I want that same thing while I'm seeing it through the pixels.
Colin (27:42):
You chose the suicidal late nineties, early two thousands singer songwriter as your soundtrack, right?
Producer Dave (27:48):
And it's like, here, look at the place. I've gone for my final resting place. But anyway, can we bring some energy to that? Those places are awesome and I love sharing them and love seeing it, but man, get me hype. Let me
Colin (28:01):
Go. If you want to go old school, I think I said to you before you go like early eighties, Wyndham Hills sampler. Get some like George Winston or William Ackerman, like some acoustic guitar, little piano thing, a little nature-based piano, whatever. How
Producer Dave (28:16):
About a little Bowie?
Colin (28:17):
There you go. That works too. Alright man, we can wrap it up there. Thanks for listening to everybody. The Rock Fight is a production of Rock Fight LLC. Our producer today was, you heard him, David Cars had Art Direction provided by Sarah, your mom, Genser Colin, true. Thanks for listening. And here to take us out. It's our guy Krista Makes and he's here to sing the rock Fight Fight song, and we'll see you next time. Rock fighters. Rock fight, rock fight, fight, rock
Chris DeMakes (28:49):
Fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. We talk about human power, outdoor activities and big bites about topics that we find interesting. Black Five, culture, music, the latest movie reviews, ideas that for the head, this is where we speak our truth.
(29:15):
This is where we speak our truth. Welcome to.