Today on the very special 200th episode of THE ROCK FIGHT (an outdoor podcast that aims for the head) Justin and Colin tackle a jam packed slate of headlines and topics!
On the docket for today:
What Is Justin Doing This Weekend? Did Kona just go out of business at Sea Otter? (03:49)
Earth Day trivia (10:21)
The big brain behind the Stanley boom is heading to HeyDude (15:43)
VF deploys TNF to elevate icebreaker in an apparel collaboration (17:39)
Patagonia debuts new a marketing campaign claiming that fashion is 'none of our business' (spoiler: it's totally their business) (23:27)
A New York runner becomes the public face of rejection for the 2024 New York City Marathon (38:05)
It's National Parks Week! This week the entrance fees to all 400 NPS properties will be waived (40:00)
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Episode Transcript
Colin (00:08):
Welcome to the Rock Bite where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast at aims for the head. I'm Colin. True and joining me today. It might be Earth Day to everyone else, but he's here to celebrate the 200th episode of the Rock Fight. It's Justin Halman.
Justin (00:25):
Wow. Is it
Colin (00:25):
Really? Yeah. This is our 200th episode.
Justin (00:27):
I love that you don't tell me these things until the show actually happens.
Colin (00:31):
God have some surprises. That's
Justin (00:32):
A lot. That seems like a lot. That's great. It's funny because you listen to podcasts that you like and I'll be like, episode 682, and you're like, how the hell did they do that? But it doesn't feel, I mean obviously I haven't been on all of them, but I'm surprised it's already 200.
Colin (00:44):
Well, I mean, the way the new format's going, you're ticking up though, buddy. That's true. On a fair amount of these.
Justin (00:50):
Yeah, we should actually count. I would be curious, does this actually drop on Earth Day? It does. That's right.
Colin (00:53):
Earth Day is also known as the Rock Fights 200th episode day. So it's all been leading to this.
Justin (01:02):
The universe works in such weird ways, doesn't it? Right. Hey, that means tomorrow's four 20. What are your plans?
Colin (01:08):
That is true. It is tomorrow's four 20. That's right. I'm, I'm going
Justin (01:12):
Recording this on the 19th. That's
Colin (01:13):
Right. I'm going to a horse show to watch my kid ride horses Classic. I will not be high.
Justin (01:19):
No, you No, probably not. I just remember just now I used to live three blocks from Golden Gate Park when I lived in San Francisco and four 20 is a pretty big deal there and was easily the most annoying of all the things that would shut down Golden Gate Park because there's stuff a few times during the year, but that one was particularly bad. Just stoned people everywhere and traffic kind of snarling and I don't know that that one bothered. That one kind of was annoying.
Colin (01:53):
Well, today we are going to run through some of the more notable or exciting headlines that come out of the outdoor industry and community, but before we get to that, a few listen reminders. The rock Fight guys, it's growing at an incredible rate. This last month has been huge. So with so many new listeners, and if you're one of those new listeners, please listen to the show and follow the show on Apple's podcast or Spotify or wherever you hear it says, please click follow. We really want to get those follows up. It really helps the show. You probably found the show because some other sweet soul clicked follow. So be that sweet soul for someone else and then head over to rock fight.co and sign up for our newsletter. I mean, it's a good newsletter.
Justin (02:27):
It's a good newsletter. I dunno nothing to do with it, but it's a good newsletter. It really is.
Colin (02:31):
That's even higher Praise. Thanks, man. It's
Justin (02:33):
True. What's good
Colin (02:34):
About
Justin (02:34):
It? It's fun to read. Give me more. It's fun to read. I love the little history, the s news history. The snooze history is always good. That's in the newsletter, right? Yeah, that, yeah. I just always enjoy reading it.
Colin (02:48):
Thanks, man. As someone who writes a newsletter, that's
Justin (02:51):
That's a big deal. It's good. It's what you want a newsletter. It's fun. It's like a nice little, oh cool. This Arrived today, which is really, that's what you want a newsletter.
Colin (02:58):
Lastly, we love hearing from our listeners. We want your suggestions for what Justin can do next weekend. We're about to hear what he's going to do for this weekend, but we want to hear what you think Justin should do next weekend. So this is your opportunity folks send. What do you think Justin should do next weekend to My Rock fight@gmail.com? We will. I'm sure we'll get a few responses. We'll probably just wait until we get some really good responses. Might be a few weeks before you hear those, but if not, we'll start it next week. Hopefully we hear from you.
Justin (03:22):
Yeah, no, and really anything's on the table. I mean, I'm probably not going to do anything that's suggested. That's just how I am, but nudity, that's fine. If you want, I don't know, celebr
Colin (03:32):
Four 20 a week late at Golden Gate Hill.
Justin (03:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever you, let's hear 'em just there. Solo with a bomb. Let's hear 'em. And if I do do it, maybe whatever it is, maybe I'll take a picture, we'll put it in the newsletter or something like that.
Colin (03:44):
That's a great idea that this could become a segment in the newsletter. So as we just talked about, we are recording this on Friday, April 18th. You're listening to it on Earth Day.
Justin (03:52):
It's Friday, April 19th, Colin. Oh my
Colin (03:53):
God, I wrote this yesterday. Damnit. Yes. Friday, April 19th. You're hearing it on Monday, April 22nd. Happy Earth Day. And that means that in between, we had ourselves a weekend. I didn't take out the joke from four weeks ago. That also means it's time for America's favorite podcast segment. What is Justin doing this weekend? Presented by a long weekend coffee. Thank you. Thanks buddy.
Justin (04:14):
Just editing out columns. It's
Colin (04:16):
A lot of copying and pasting in these outlines. Sorry that drives me nuts. This weekend Justin will be editing all the rock fights outlines. Yeah.
Justin (04:28):
Alright, I'm done.
Colin (04:30):
Alright, so Justin, what are you up to this weekend?
Justin (04:33):
Okay, so this is Sea Otter Weekend, everyone, so if you're not familiar, it's like a huge mountain bike trade show down in Monterey. I can't go for various reasons. It's happening right now. People are having a blast. I'm sure. I've never actually been. I've never been. Neither have I. Part of the reason is because it's an annoying distance. If it was an hour away, I would go, but it's like two hours away, which is a terrible distance. I don't want to drive four hours in a day to go down there and come home. I don't really have any reason to spend the night anyway. I've never been, but I feel some fomo as if Gordon's there and everybody else is there. I feel some fomo, so I'm going to start my own festival this weekend. Colin,
Colin (05:15):
You're just starting a festival?
Justin (05:16):
Yeah, it's the River Otter Festival. We have River Otters here. We don't have sea otters. There's no beach here, but we do have River Rotters just down the street and then my little creek, so I'm going to just set up some bikes and some tables and maybe there'll be some river rotters. I don't know, but if anybody wants to join me, I have my little trade show. That's what I'm going to do.
Colin (05:37):
What's the current water temp you think of your
Justin (05:39):
Creek? The little creek? Good question. Cold. I don't know. It's pretty chilly. 60 at the highest.
Colin (05:44):
So you could throw on a wetsuit and float around in an inner tube for
Justin (05:47):
Otter? Absolutely. Yeah. There's a swimming hole right down the street. Kids swim in it, but yeah, I haven't yet floated in it, which is weird, but I should Maybe I'll do that. That'll be part of it. Yeah. Come down, have a float, get inner tube. It's perfectly legal. No one's going to stop you. It's a beautiful little swimming hole. And so that's going to be my own little festival and then I'm not going to feel left out from Sea Otter and then maybe next year be you'll come and then other people will come and there'll be huge, I would love River Outter Fest, right? Doesn't that sound nice? Yeah. Yeah. River hunters are great.
Colin (06:17):
I'm with the On Sea Otter for the bike community. It's huge. I mean, and there's always races and stuff like that, and if you're a really big cycling enthusiast, I would see why you'd want to go. And as much as I love riding bikes, I don't really feel like standing around and watching a bike race. I mean, it's not that I opposed to it, but it's a long way for me to go to do that at this thing and for you. Exactly. It's that exact wrong distance where it's like you can still drive home at the end of the day and you'd rather be a little bit further, so you have to get a hotel or camp
Justin (06:43):
Or whatever. You can camp there, and I probably would have had it sort of made for the arrangements, but it's also very much a trade show, so it's like people are making deals and there's all these, I don't really need to see 45 different booths where it's like, here's our fancy new headset. I love bikes, but I'm not that into the components and stuff. I
Colin (07:02):
Saw somebody post on Instagram this morning. Did Kona set up and then break down? Did you hear about this?
Justin (07:06):
Oh yeah. I actually wanted to talk about that. I completely forgot. Yeah, I wanted to bring that up.
Colin (07:12):
Do we know any reason, anything, what happened? Did they file for bankruptcy while at Sea
Justin (07:16):
Otter? Maybe. There was supposed to be an all hands meeting like yesterday, but I haven't seen anything. I'm looking at bicycle retailer right now. Nothing has been updated. Yeah. How crazy is that? What
Colin (07:29):
Was the report from a bicycle retailer?
Justin (07:31):
Basically that they set up their tent, they set up everything they had, I think they had a little Come see us get a free bike or whatever, we'll
Colin (07:41):
Do a raffle. They were running some sort of promo, almost like the same promo probably because they're the ones who had the bogo. They were running a BOGO at the end of the year,
Justin (07:47):
And so yeah, other sources confirmed the CEO of Can Outdoors that owns Kona. They called the employees of Monterey, told 'em to break down the display and not have any presence at the expo. And then yesterday there was supposedly a company town hall meeting, but nobody knew what it was going to be about. No one, and I haven't heard anything since.
Colin (08:07):
Wow, man, this might be the end of Kona Bikes. That'd be crazy.
Justin (08:09):
I mean, I don't know what else it would be.
Colin (08:13):
Yeah, what else could it be? I mean, they're telling you to shut down at a trade show.
Justin (08:18):
Yeah, that seems bad. You
Colin (08:19):
Would think it was something else. They'd at least be like, all right, just run out the weekend, take off the promo, whatever. What were the reason that, but why would they like, oh no, no, tear it down. We shouldn't have let you go in the first place.
Justin (08:30):
That seems weird. Also, you're That's a real bad pr, so it just seems like there's not really an upside to that. You know what? You know what? I bet they're coming to River Otter.
Colin (08:46):
Fuck. Why didn't we think of that?
Justin (08:48):
I bet they're coming to River
Colin (08:49):
Rotter. Who's at your door?
Justin (08:50):
Yeah.
Colin (08:51):
Oh my God. It's the Coda
Justin (08:52):
Folks. There's been a huge truck parked in front of my house for a while. That's it. They're coming to River Hour
Colin (08:56):
2024. They're debut their new river bike.
Justin (08:58):
Oh my gosh.
Colin (09:00):
Have you worked many trade shows? Have you've always been there? More of a press capacity?
Justin (09:03):
I've never worked at a trade show ever in my life.
Colin (09:05):
I feel for the people who are there for Kona, because it's a gnarly kind of heavy lifting job to get things set, even in a small presence. It's just like it's weekend away. It's hotels. It's setting up things that don't always piece together. How do you make it look good? How's it merchandise? There's a plan beforehand that doesn't always get executed on site. And then to kind of be there and then probably get the word. Yeah. Well, I mean, even if they're not going out of business, I feel for the people who work for Kona who are in Monterey right now, that sucks. That's a terrible position to be in.
Justin (09:34):
Well, I think at least a couple of the, I think that article I was just quoting from, I think there might've been one or two things where some of the higher ups were like, well, we're in Monterey. I'm going to hang out at least. But
Colin (09:46):
Oh, I guess that's the other side. If I were one of them and the word was going out of business, I'd be like, Hey, great. All your shit's over there. I'll see you later. I'm going to go hang out in
Justin (09:56):
Monterey. At least there's other bike brands around. Hey, whatcha are you guys doing specialized? How are you? Doing?
Colin (10:01):
Well. What Justin is doing this weekend is presented by a long weekend coffee. If you want to start off your days in adventures and all of your weekends the right way, you head to Long weekend.coffee, get a batch of beans. We like the secret handshake here on the rock fight, and then at checkout, you enter the promo code Rock 10 to get 10% off of your first order long weekend coffee more weekend. Please, before we get into headlines, I have a trivia contest for you.
Justin (10:25):
Oh, great. Okay.
Colin (10:26):
You
Justin (10:27):
Excited? I'm excited.
Colin (10:28):
This is Earth Day trivia.
Justin (10:29):
Oh, no.
Colin (10:30):
Okay. I figured. Okay. Justin's going to know these. I found a 50 Earth Day trivia questions and I picked six of them
Justin (10:37):
About Earth Day itself. This
Colin (10:38):
Is about Earth Day and some that are Earth Day adjacent. I mean, I think I 50
Justin (10:42):
Probably. I might not get any, but go ahead. Let's go. Let's try.
Colin (10:45):
What do you think? So I got six questions. What's the over under and how many you get, right? Like two and a half? Yeah. Would you take the over?
Justin (10:51):
I think I'm going to take the under, actually. Let's see.
Colin (10:53):
So less than two and a half of the
Justin (10:55):
Six questions. Yeah. Yeah.
Colin (10:56):
All right. The first ones, I think I, I would've gotten this right, or I would've gotten very close. So maybe we, maybe we'll go prices, right Rules on this one. Closest retail price without, but
Justin (11:07):
Can't go over. Okay.
Colin (11:08):
So when was the first Earth Day? What year?
Justin (11:11):
Yeah, see, that's such a hard question. I'll give
Colin (11:13):
You a two year buffer on either
Justin (11:14):
Side. 78.
Colin (11:18):
Okay. Well, six year buffer, 1970.
Justin (11:22):
Okay. All right. I mean, decade. Decade. Yeah. I knew it was in the seventies, but yeah, I mean, that's a hard one.
Colin (11:27):
Okay. I'll give you some hints on this one. Which Hollywood actors spoke to crowds in Union Square in New York City on the first Earth Day. There's one man, one woman,
Justin (11:37):
Jane Fonda.
Colin (11:39):
See, that's what I would've said it. It was ly McGraw. I'm just going to tell you, it's Ally Mcw. I don't know who that is exactly. I couldn't even pick her out of a lineup. You definitely know who the other guy is. And the hint I'll give you is he acted alongside a famous that we covered in one of our movie reviews. And this is,
Justin (11:56):
But he wasn't in the movie itself. He
Colin (11:57):
Wasn't in the movie, but he was in other movies with this actor and Paul Newman.
Justin (12:02):
Bam,
Colin (12:02):
There it is. Yes. All right.
Justin (12:04):
Yeah. Nice. That makes sense. Yeah,
Colin (12:07):
Totally. I was like, oh wait, I was supposed to, he was in Jeremiah Johnson. Oh, no, he wasn't. Well,
Justin (12:11):
I would guess I was, because I was going to guess Robert Redford. I
Colin (12:15):
Think that would've good. That would've been totally fair guess, right. Given his history of everything right there. Okay. This was a really weirdly worded question, but I think we'll get it. I copied and pasted, this is not me using my ability to fuck up a sentence, which we all know is well documented. A single tree produces enough air
Justin (12:34):
Jesus
Colin (12:35):
To supply in its lifetime For how many people in a year? Again, really poorly. So a single tree produces enough air for how many people? And over the course of a year.
Justin (12:46):
Oh man. I mean,
Colin (12:49):
Surely I'll say say it's less than 10. I'll go less than 10. Really?
Justin (12:52):
Okay. I would say also surely that's dependent on the tree, right?
Colin (12:55):
Right. What's this like a Sequoia versus a little sapling
Justin (12:57):
Or something? Yeah, like these little tiny maples in my front yard.
Colin (13:01):
I'm sure there's an average here. Right?
Justin (13:02):
Okay. Hold on. One tree over Its lifetime, over its
Colin (13:05):
Lifetime
Justin (13:06):
Produces enough air for how many people to breathe in a year. Right. Okay. I mean, I would've thought it was way more than 10. Me too. So at this point, now, I'm just wildly guessing. Now all
Colin (13:16):
These start planting trees on the weekend. Now that I know this number, we,
Justin (13:20):
I don't. 5, 5, 4. Yeah, four. Wow. I would've thought it was more, I
Colin (13:24):
Would've said like 27 or something. I was like, wow. Four. So we need more trees.
Justin (13:29):
We need more trees. Yeah.
Colin (13:31):
Yeah. Okay. This is a good one. What? American River caught fire in 1969. Nine.
Justin (13:37):
Yeah.
Colin (13:38):
Could follow
Justin (13:38):
Up. What is it called? The Cuyahoga.
Colin (13:41):
Cuyahoga.
Justin (13:41):
Cuyahoga. All right. I was gibberish on purpose cause I don't know how to pronounce it, but okay.
Colin (13:45):
There is a song that plays during the opening credits of a movie. You have definitely seen that references this event. Can you name the movie or the song?
Justin (13:52):
I've heard of this.
Colin (13:54):
Oh, you definitely know this.
Justin (13:55):
I won't be able to guess,
Colin (13:57):
But movie on one of favorite things in the world.
Justin (14:00):
It's on one of my favorite things. The world
Colin (14:01):
It. It's about one of your favorite things.
Justin (14:03):
Fly fishing.
Colin (14:04):
No, that's a good guess though. It's not a
Justin (14:05):
River, river, river, river. There's movie
Colin (14:07):
About the Cuyahoga at a
Justin (14:08):
River. Well, it's not about surfing. Nope. The Dodgers. It's about baseball. Is it Field of Dreams? No. No. What other The natural. No, wait, what is
Colin (14:21):
It? Major League.
Justin (14:22):
Major league. What's the song? What's song?
Colin (14:24):
That's the song Randy Newman song that plays over the opening credits.
Justin (14:27):
Oh, so is it even a famous song or did he write it for Major League?
Colin (14:30):
He wrote it for Major league, but I mean it plays, he plays over the opening credit. They're paying all over Cleveland.
Justin (14:34):
I love Major League. I don't know that. I haven't pressed play on that movie in a long time where I'd see it from the beginning.
Colin (14:43):
Alright, we got two more trivia questions and we can move on. Ready? Okay. Alright. April 22nd, which is today's date? Because it's Monday, April 22nd is the birth date of which famous conservationist.
Justin (14:52):
Oh, is this why it's Earth Day?
Colin (14:55):
I'm sure that's a reason.
Justin (14:57):
Is it Rachel Carson?
Colin (14:59):
Nope.
Justin (14:59):
Okay. Hold on. Do
Colin (15:01):
You know who this person
Justin (15:01):
Is? I do. Yeah. Not
Colin (15:04):
Personally. No.
Justin (15:06):
Is it Aldo Leopold?
Colin (15:07):
Nope. It's a really obvious answer here,
Justin (15:10):
But they're not alive.
Colin (15:11):
Not
Justin (15:11):
Alive. It's not John Muir. It is. Really? Yeah. Huh. I didn't know that. That's got to be,
Colin (15:18):
Yeah, I'm sure that plays into it. Why they
Justin (15:20):
Picked that day. Yeah.
Colin (15:21):
All right. Lastly, what is the theme of Earth Day 2024?
Justin (15:25):
There's a theme. Yeah,
Colin (15:26):
I didn't know we had themes. I thought it was his Earth Day.
Justin (15:30):
I don't know. Planet
Colin (15:32):
Versus plastics.
Justin (15:34):
That's not a good theme. That's
Colin (15:35):
Bad. They did about, we need to go back to the creative table on that one.
Justin (15:38):
Alright, so what? I got two.
Colin (15:39):
Yeah, we'll give you two.
Justin (15:41):
Yeah, I took the under. Yes.
Colin (15:43):
Alright, well let's get into some headlines. Let's do
Justin (15:45):
It.
Colin (15:45):
Alright. So according to SGB Crocs Incorporated as appointed, what do we know
Justin (15:49):
What that stands for?
Colin (15:50):
Sporting Goods Business.
Justin (15:52):
We do know what it stands for. Yeah. Okay, excellent. Continue.
Colin (15:56):
So Crocs Incorporated as appointed Terrence Riley as the incoming executive vice president and president for the Hey dude brand. Since 2020, he has held the president role at Stanley where he was credited with creating and leading the strategy that propelled the brand's resurgence into a drinkware icon, at least a current drinkware icon. Prior to Stanley Riley served in the marketing leadership at Crocs from 2013 to 2020. So first of all on this, a couple of things. I wanted to talk about this with you first. One is, I mean, is there a guy with better timing? He's like, now is the right time to leave. Stanley. The descent is probably begun, right?
Justin (16:30):
Yeah, yeah, probably. I mean that makes total sense. I need to know what brand is he? What is this brand? Hey dude. Hey
Colin (16:36):
Dudes. What is
Justin (16:38):
That?
Colin (16:38):
Oh, Google it. I want to see your face.
Justin (16:41):
Wasn't that a show on Nickelodeon,
Colin (16:44):
I think was it? No. Was Hey
Justin (16:45):
Dude,
Colin (16:47):
I feel like that sounds like it is a footwear brand that Crocs acquired and the folks over at ook want to have a word.
Justin (16:55):
They sure do. This is,
Colin (16:57):
It's a billion dollar brand.
Justin (16:58):
Hey dude is a billion dollar brand. Yeah,
Colin (17:00):
I'm almost positive.
Justin (17:01):
So they make loafers not even
Colin (17:03):
Good
Justin (17:03):
Ones. Foam loafers.
Colin (17:05):
Yeah. 949 million in 2023.
Justin (17:07):
I've never heard of this brand
Colin (17:09):
On the Stanley front though, so great timing leaving. Who's the poor bastard that's going to land in the Stanley seat right now? Somebody out there is like, oh my God, I got the job at Stanley. I'm so excited and it's going to be nothing but bad times for the next five years. Make
Justin (17:22):
A bigger mug. Can we make a bigger one? Like a backpack when you go to a baseball game and it's cold and they have, or probably just football games. They have the hot chocolate backpacks.
Colin (17:32):
Sure. Yeah,
Justin (17:33):
Stanley, that's
Colin (17:34):
What's going to
Justin (17:34):
Happen. Stanley backpack. Just a giant metal cup on your back.
Colin (17:39):
Alright, well next story we have is per the daily, the North face and Icebreaker have collaborated on a Merino blend capsule for spring summer 2024 collections made from fabric that is a hundred percent plastic free. Neil Baker, who's the senior global creative director at Icebreaker had this to say said, in collaborating with the North Face, we crafted a collection where sustainable innovation meets timeless design. Could tell this guy's a creative director. Our natural fibers seamlessly blend style with function, empowering adventures to connect with the great outdoors and comfort and harmony. Man, that's quite the market quote there. Neil Baker. Yeah, take a look at the collection. So it kind of dovetails into the next thing we're going to talk about, but it's a weird thing to me. I mean this seems so obvious of VF owns both brands, which they do and it's sort of like let's tag icebreaker onto the North face and get a little attention for Icebreaker because mostly this looks like something you'd seen from smartwool or Icebreaker. When you look at the products, are you looking at it right now?
Justin (18:39):
Yeah, and I'm having not the most pleasant reaction. It's
Colin (18:44):
A little prison.
Justin (18:46):
Not even that honestly. So the shirts are fine. The zip hoodie is great. I'm sure that's really comfortable. I would wear that. But then you get to the shorts. Are you looking at the shorts?
Colin (19:00):
The Men's Marino blend, the North Face icebreaker shorts for $170.
Justin (19:06):
Yeah. Can we talk about the picture, Colin? This is what we're doing now. This is what people are wearing now. Does this not look ridiculous to you?
Colin (19:15):
They look too long.
Justin (19:16):
Well, they look like this looks like a, how do you describe this? He looks like someone making fun of their dad in the nineties. Like ankle socks, like white-ish.
Colin (19:26):
Run shoes. Yeah, they did not dress the model very well.
Justin (19:29):
A belt with shorts with a shirt tucked into it. Who dresses? Is that what's pretty bad? Kids are wearing that though, I think probably, huh? They
Colin (19:34):
Probably are, but it doesn't, I'm sure there was a way to shoot that where it looks fine for a product catalog such as this looks like you just took a picture, like you said, of your dad and you just cropped the top half of 'em off.
Justin (19:49):
I honestly thought Normcore was going to be a phase that was going to leave, but it is. This is clearly what kids are into and this is wild. These models are too old to dress like this.
Colin (20:00):
Yeah,
Justin (20:02):
Folks, I'm sorry, we got a shirt tucked into shorts with a belt on. It's really bad. Who does that? Unless playing
Colin (20:08):
It's hundred 70 bucks.
Justin (20:10):
That's just 170 bucks. You know what? I will say shorts look really comfortable. I mean if you had a T-shirt and sandals, heck yeah, I'm sure the shorts are great.
Colin (20:18):
It's super expensive. And look, you and I love
Justin (20:21):
Maria, a $70 for a pair of shorts. Is that what it's going to cost now to have things that aren't full of plastics?
Colin (20:26):
Well,
Justin (20:27):
Is that what the story is?
Colin (20:29):
I don't know. It's
Justin (20:30):
A, but who would wear this to the, these are not things I would wear outside. I wouldn't want to get any of this stuff dirty.
Colin (20:36):
I just look at this. This is only available online. The product doesn't look that good. I get if I am the owner, if I'm vf, it's like how do we kind of leverage our brands to help elevate them, but now I've got $200, not even dad shorts, like granddad shorts, those something you're wearing at the retirement home. It just kind of feels like a big swing and a miss. And then ultimately we're going to find this stuff on Sierra in a couple of months
Justin (21:00):
In Sierra in their 26 brick and mortar stores. Yeah,
Colin (21:05):
Sierra right now was like, oh sweet, we could open a 30th store this year.
Justin (21:08):
I don't know. I mean I like icebreaker stuff a lot. Me too, but I don't know. I don't know what's going on in fashion. I guess it's I'm old, but that happened quickly where it was like, oh, is that what people are wearing? I just have no idea. I would never see if someone walked around wearing this, I'd be like, what? But
Colin (21:31):
This is objectively bland. I expected to be able to see a little more north face in this. This just feels like baggy merino shit. And that's okay. I'm here for the a hundred percent plastic free part of it. That's great. That's
Justin (21:41):
Great. But yeah, why couldn't that be in something that you actually, yeah, I don't know. I dunno if they presumably have a giant marketing program, maybe the people that are the most interested in plastic-free stuff are also interested in not particularly going outside. Apparently these are very pale models,
Colin (21:59):
They're very pale. Add a little Photoshop, add a little, or don't just go with pasty white people this, but
Justin (22:04):
Nothing about this suggests going outside nothing.
Colin (22:07):
Nothing suggests going outside. And I think it's a big swing and a miss because give yourself a piece of credit here. Piece of credit. Give yourself some credit here because you're the demo for this. You and I both are, right? I would think $200 garments that are out that are from an outdoor brands, older, middle-aged people with disposable income. This is who this is aimed at. Neither one of us wants
Justin (22:26):
This thing. Marino makes a ton of sense in underwear and t-shirts, but not shorts. That's, I'm going to get that on a bramble or whatever. I'm going to rub it against a tree. It's going to ruin that. That doesn't make any sense.
Colin (22:37):
It's snag on the Yeti cooler at that barbecue I'm at because that's apparently what this guy's doing when they have that picture taken of them. Yeah.
Justin (22:42):
Yeah. I mean they'd be great at the mall or whatever we call these now. Awesome. Go to some Orange County outdoor mall. Yeah, it'd probably be really good to wear these merino shorts. But no, I would not hike in any of this stuff.
Colin (22:53):
I was kind of hoping that I'd open up this, I'd look at this collection and be like, oh that shit's dope. I really want that. And I think you and I being their target audience for something like this, just on that end alone, we can talk about where it's rolled out, why they're doing it. To your point, the performance of it. When you're doing something like this and you have two people like you and I, two white guys who have some means to be able to say, look at this and be like, I'm not into that. That's kind of all right there. That's a problem
Justin (23:21):
I would think. But I don't think that we're the target. We don't own Rivian.
Colin (23:26):
That's true. Alright, well kind of the big story of the week we wanted to talk about is Patagonia earlier this week rolled out a new campaign called Fashion is None of Our Business. We'll play out words there. You thought we were going to say none of your business. We said none of our business. Yes, as a copywriter. Tell me about No, I'm just kidding.
Justin (23:43):
It's a great line.
Colin (23:44):
That's a good one. All right, so along with that came a video invoking the brand's heritage and their stance that they're in business to save the planet. So Patagonia is basically doubling down on their message that what they make is justified by its longevity and purpose and that's what separates them from fashion brands who are making more stuff than the world can handle. Patagonia gets a lot of credit for what they do. I want to kind of preface everything I'm saying and a lot of what I know about Patagonia is from working with Patagonia when I was working at a textile brand textile manufacturer. And they deserve all the credit they get because they do do things the best. The only other brand you can really kind of rank above Patagonia, I feel like in terms of their commitment and how they make things and their presence in the marketplace and the messaging out there could be Houdini on the product side in terms of where they put their money after the fact. I'm sure Patagonia is outmatched has outmatched everybody else. There's no one doing it better.
Justin (24:37):
Correct. I think that's true.
Colin (24:39):
I think though this feels like a bridge too far. You're telling me that everything has a purpose that you're making stuff that is based on longevity. You should choose our brand over other brands. And if you go look around the website, you click on men's tops, there's like 166 crew next or men's different men's tops. There's a lot of stuff. There's a lot of stuff. And I have a tough time squaring the message with what I actually see them making. I dunno, what was your experience watching this video?
Justin (25:09):
Do you remember this term? And I'll look it up if you can't remember it, you don't hear it that much anymore. It was really popular five years ago, altruistic something or other and it was like rich guys who were like, I'm going to make a billion dollars so that I can give all my money away purpose. It was
Colin (25:23):
Allbirds was
Justin (25:25):
No, these are more Silicon Valley philosopher startup people and they were like, I'm going to the whole point of me making a ton of money, altruistic empathy, Altru. It was like to make a huge amount of money so that I can donate it to really good causes.
Colin (25:39):
Altruistic investing. Yeah, what's good Got to do with it. That's an article from the street in
Justin (25:43):
2015. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, something like that. But there's a very specific term, altruistic, something that was a philosophy and that's kind of what sort of in some ways this feels like to me a little bit. So here's the thing, I don't understand enough about capitalism or how you make money as a closed company at all. I don't know why a certain point, Patagonia has grown to a billion dollar company and has tens of thousands of employees when that seems like what Avan did not want to do starting out. But they give hundreds of millions of dollars away every year. They're really important in access to land into actually more than that. They're working all over the world on clean water initiatives and reforesting initiatives and all these sorts of things that could not probably happen without that money. And so I think understand, I think I get it. I do think I get it, but again, I don't know what would happen if they scaled way back on their production. I don't know, maybe they go away and then you lose this giant force for doing things the right. I mean what other brand would you say? You just said Houdini, but they're tiny compared to Patagonia. So what other brand would even who would step up? There's not another obvious choice, another brand who's nipping at their heels in terms of doing things the right way.
(27:20)I get it. I get the sort of consternation that people might have. I mean I read Kyle's piece in the mountain newsletter. He's not wrong about any of that, but it's also like, I don't know, what do you want? Do you just not want them to exist? Do you just want 'em to only make climbing equipment and that's it? I mean, I don't know. It just seems like they do a lot of good and their stuff is pretty good. It's bad as if you have something that's from Patagonia. It's going to be as good as anything else you've ever had. And they do care a lot. I mean their wetsuit program is a good example. They help pioneer like Uex Rubber and they help pioneer fixing all your stuff, fixing your wetsuits. I mean their work wear programs really cool. I mean I guess I don't feel like there's anything false or fake or swindling or anything like this in what they do. I mean you can disagree with the size of the brand, you can disagree with the size of the company and I get that. But I think that and fashion is, none of our businesses kind of a funny, I mean funny. It's a great line. It's obviously not true. I mean they make stuff that they think looks good. I mean that's obvious.
Colin (28:33):
It is a good line. Top 10 fashion brand in the world and good. I'm saying that ironically, if name 10 brands that you like to wear stuff from, not outdoor related, Patagonia is going to get mentioned.
Justin (28:42):
Yeah, I mean it is a great line. I mean their aesthetic is very cool. So that's obviously not the case, but I get what they really mean. Fast fashion is not their business. They're not making things just to make splashy cool close or whatever. So I don't know, it doesn't bother me. I can understand why it would bother you or Kyle or other people
Colin (29:03):
For sure.
Justin (29:04):
I'm not saying it does bother you, but I can see why, how it
Colin (29:06):
Could rank. No, this is why I kind of led with it's complicated. I think that's because of all the things you just laid out that they do do. Well. I just can't really square the, we're in business to save the planet mantra and the amount of stuff that they're making. I did this before I threw it in our outline. I mean, so to make a billion dollars at an average selling price of a hundred bucks, which I feel like is fair in this case, given from everything from a hat to a 300, 400 jacket, that's 10 million items you got to produce to make a billion dollars in a year, 10 million, that's the first billion. That's a lot of stuff now their former tagline was build the best product, do no unnecessary harm to the planet. That felt to me very honest of like, Hey man, we're making stuff. We're a for-profit enterprise. We're going to do it the best way possible.
Justin (29:55):
Well, I think their argument, what I would assume their argument would be, what Yvonne's argument would probably be is you're right. But at a certain point we realize that we're so big and potentially so influential that the more we sell, the more we can give back that. And that's where my altruistic sort of thing is coming in where it's like, okay, we really are in business to save our home planet. We don't need to make any more money. We're huge. This Bernard are, I mean obviously very wealthy people. We don't need to worry about this anymore. We don't need to be in business for ourselves anymore. We're in business to funnel this money back into really good causes. So that's what I would assume would be the argument.
Colin (30:29):
But at some point you become the thing you're fighting against. And that's what I feels like this to me where it's like we have been so conditioned to consume and she and in fast fashion band do continue to grow at this exponential rate with no repercussions and basically this is saying, Hey, buy our stuff instead of their stuff. Now you should if you're going to buy something. But I think the best thing they ever said and did is the thing that they continue to harp on, look back on and point to is the don't buy this jacket ad campaign. That is the first time and the only time as far as I know that anybody has ever said that, right? Don't buy this unless you really need it. That should be the message. Not hey, our stuff is better than the other stuff. We make millions of things too, but you should buy our things and not theirs.
Justin (31:16):
Yeah, I get that. I get that. I guess I would say that I don't feel like we're in business to save our home planet is entirely disingenuous in the sense that if Patagonia was gone again, it also depends on what your main concern is. Is your main concern the production of things? Is your main concern fueling people's need to acquire things or is your main concern carbon emissions is your main concern? Clean water, these things are unfortunately they don't always match up. And so if you were to point out an evil in the world that you want to fix and it's people feeling the need to buy things, then of course this is going to not square with that. But if your thing is, what we need to do is get way more people on board with a lot of horrible shit that's going on and protect a whole lot more places. And the best way for us to do that is to build a really big brand that spreads awareness and that raises a bunch of money for these sorts of things. Then selling a lot more stuff makes a lot of sense. So it really just depends on where you stand on that sort of issue. So I don't think it's black and white at
Colin (32:20):
All. It's not black. You're absolutely right. It's not black and white and looks is what we talk about on our gear and pure episodes all the time. Our pal to Tacoma Phil wrote in and be like, Hey, isn't the best thing for your stuff ter to say always be zero. We shouldn't be making anything. Sure,
Justin (32:32):
But then you live in communist China or whatever.
Colin (32:34):
Well, and that's it. I don't think we should be striving to, we don't make anything. I think that's unrealistic number one. I think number two, we are already kind of locked into this sort of financial model. We have to, how do we work within it to do it better? That's better, right? I still clearly, I mean I think you're the best example of this as someone who has been reviewing gear for a long time yet you have very liberal tendencies and definitely tend to look at things of we shouldn't have this stuff. But I also am kind of fascinated by this stuff as well. And clearly there's a behavior thing on ours that we want the stuff and part of the problem is the system versus the world is better with Patagonia in it. But there's these little things too, like P-F-A-S-P, FFA S is another one.
(33:20)A lot of people I've seen on LinkedIn just praising this brand, look at how they're leading. It's like, no, everybody's had the solution or known about PFAS for a decade and nobody has done anything. And if you want proof on it, again, go look around. Raven was talking about how they were ahead of the curve and then there's consumers on commenting in the comment section, why didn't you share your trade secrets with everybody else? There was no trade secrets. They just took the solutions that no one else was doing at the time, including Patagonia. But then Patagonia just gets lauded with like, oh, you're leading on PFAS because they're doing something like this year. It's like, no, you're doing something this year because everybody has to do something this
Justin (33:57):
Year. Well you also have to realize that at least it's not like if you're applying for a job at Patagonia, I mean they obviously probably sort of want you to have certain kinds of ideals, but I doubt that everybody does. They obviously have a giant group of people who are focused entirely on the money and how many of those people in the world are actually bleeding heart environmentalists?
Colin (34:17):
And listen, like I said, I spent a lot of time there. I'd take a job at there tomorrow because they do, for the most part, practice what they preach. This one just felt a little too, I'm a little high on my own supply, lemme tell you how great I am. I like that we do it better. Just buy our stuff and it's just getting a little close to that line of why don't you just continue to do all the right things and talk about how you're making it
Justin (34:43):
Better. I see what you mean. Yeah. I see what you mean. Yeah. I saw a billboard and I think it's probably associated with this campaign or this is the cool thing about Patagonia. It could also be 30 years old. I don't know. Right. But it was a picture of a toothless or a guy with a big gap in his tooth who looked like he was 70 probably climbing somewhere wearing Patagonia stuff and the tagline was built for years, not for seasons. And that's great. And that's probably a little bit more in line with what you are sort of talking about in terms of how you're going to present yourself as
Colin (35:14):
A brand. Look, this is a touchy subject. We need regulation on this. They need to say what you can and can't make anymore and no one's going to stop making it and we're not going to stop buying the stuff. She's a great example. I was talking to a friend who has a teenage daughter and I'm like, just don't let her buy she and stuff. And she's like, oh, I love she and stuff. People don't know. They see what they want online. That's
Justin (35:33):
Very true. We're also very plugged in. We are so much more plugged in than anybody else. So that's also really, really true. And also, I mean there's a lot of people in this fucking world, dude, there's like 9 billion people almost. So they're going to be making more stuff. I mean, I don't know. We
Colin (35:47):
Produce a hundred billion garments annually.
Justin (35:50):
God, it's insane. I mean really. But we know we're fucked at the end of the day. Right? I mean the other thing is how much, I have a tiny little bit of, I don't even know, acceptance. I'm just kind of tired of it. Steve Kir and I talk about this all the time where it's like, okay, am I going to get rid of my gas cars and am I going to just walk everywhere? I'm going to turn my own butter. I made a certain point. It's not
Colin (36:22):
My responsibility anymore. The single use bottled water at the baseball game. Exactly. It's the same thing. Where do you
Justin (36:26):
Draw the, there's only so much. There's only so much you can do and do I have Patagonia stuff? I have a few things. I don't really don't have that much Patagonia stuff. I have some shorts. I, I think a jack, it's all mountain bike stuff. They make, as far as I'm concerned, the best mountain bike stuff from the big brands. And the best sleeping bag I've ever made, I've ever had is Patagonia. And by the
Colin (36:43):
Way, again, I want to be fair and I'll say if that regulation comes, they're going to be the first one rushing to all whatever to adhere by it. Right? They're going to stand behind it. Absolutely. But when you're a leader, I dunno, there was an inauthenticity to this campaign that was like, there's a lack of acknowledgement of the amount of stuff they're actually making. It's more just like, don't worry about that. Just know that we make the best and you should buy us.
Justin (37:06):
And this is very much your bugaboo. So Patagonia for that one, you have to run these things through. Colin. Colin's going to be, you actually probably should. Patagonia, honestly, if you're listening to this, you should probably hire me and Colin. But Colin specifically, this really is his main thing. And he could tell you, you know what? This is going to not ring true with certain sorts of people. Even if it is true, you need to reposition. Can't
Colin (37:28):
Show if you're kidding or not,
Justin (37:29):
I'm dead serious. I think you'd be really good at that.
Colin (37:34):
This is the topic of the industry as far as I'm concerned for the next few years. I mean it's just like, because it is this sort of, I mean it goes back, this is why I want to talk about the north facing icebreaker thing. Why do we need a capsule collection with North facing Icebreaker? And if you're going to do it, it should be objectively awesome. I should be like, I don't care. That's so sick. I'm going to buy it. Right. I dunno. But I like that we're talking
Justin (37:58):
About it. Yeah, I mean of course obviously I thought about it too when I saw it. So it's definitely worth talking about.
Colin (38:04):
Alright, well moving on. So we got a couple of headlines that I thought would really funny to kind of talk about and some ideas I had to go with 'em. So the first one was, there was a story this week and if you haven't watched the video, you don't have to do it right now, I'd watch it later. So there's a guy in New York, his name's Nick Parisi, he's a runner. And his photo from, I guess it was last year's New York City marathon, was used in the rejection letter to 158,000 people who didn't get into the New York City marathon. Literally it was like an email and it's like, sorry, but you didn't make it in. And he's there, take
Justin (38:33):
A picture of standing like
Colin (38:35):
Finger guns.
Justin (38:36):
He's like, really? Yes,
Colin (38:39):
Yes. It's a video.
Justin (38:40):
I mean, why would they have a picture at all little of something like that
Colin (38:44):
Or at least seek the guy out and make sure it's cool. Maybe use ai. Here's an opportunity for AI to make up a fake person. So the marathon organizers, they did recognize the issue and then they came to his weekly fun run that he does or run club that he goes to in Central Park and apologized to him and then offered him a spot in the 2024 race. So
Justin (39:02):
They should have offered him way more than that.
Colin (39:04):
Yeah, no kidding. My idea was let's make this a thing. I love it. The last runner of every race, you're like, you're in last place. You're on our rejection letter next year.
Justin (39:18):
I don't know, I just dunno why Is there a photo at all?
Colin (39:24):
Yeah, you just put a logo of the marathon. That's
Justin (39:27):
It. If even that dear, he's given finger guns. Sorry, too many people. Maybe next year here's a picture of a guy was in the New York Marathon,
Colin (39:36):
They interview, he like, I'm the most hated runner in
Justin (39:38):
New York City right now. Was that picture from him in the marathon?
Colin (39:41):
I think so.
Justin (39:42):
Good lord. A
Colin (39:44):
Terrible decision. They have the photographers on course presumably, right? Yeah.
Justin (39:49):
Yeah. So
Colin (39:50):
They're just trolling through photos that they all own I guess because they pay for it and they're like, ah, that one's good.
Justin (39:55):
That's
Colin (39:56):
Amazing. Who's this guy Dad, don't worry about it.
Justin (39:58):
God, that's so weird.
Colin (39:59):
Alright, last one. So this week it started off this past Saturday, April 20th when you're going to be hanging out in San Francisco getting high. We talked about the beginning of the episode. It was the official kickoff of National Parks Week where entrance to all national parks across the US will be waived.
Justin (40:13):
Entrance feeds,
Colin (40:14):
Entry feed. I missed the word. You
Justin (40:16):
Cannot get in National Park. Welcome to National Park Week. Nobody gets in an
Colin (40:19):
Important word that I omitted from the outline and case you've forgotten because there are a handful of national parks. I get most of the glory. There are over 400 national parks in the US and if you have the time and you're in within the proximity, it's a great week to go see one of them. But I don't know, I like the idea of we should change the whole reservation thing and not just have a reservation but an application process that proves you can handle the park to deal with crowding. Right. So it's like you have to apply to go. So if it's Acadia, you have to show me. You can boil and crack a lobster and I want a picture of your sea kayak.
Justin (40:50):
I can't do that.
Colin (40:51):
Could you've got to learn if you want to go to Acadia, Yosemite, we just close. There's just too many people there. We weren't giving Yosemite a couple of years off. You can't go to or the valley maybe.
Justin (41:02):
You know what? I will say that Yosemite does a pretty good job for how many people visit it. If you eliminate cars in the equation, it's totally fine. The only real issue, as you can imagine, it's a freaking canyon, is getting
Colin (41:15):
All these cars going in and out of it. Yeah.
Justin (41:17):
But they do a pretty good, even when I've been there in the summertime, you're like, okay, it's crowded, but it kind of works still. Yosemite is such a magical place.
Colin (41:27):
I think the Grand Canyon is the big one though, where you are not allowed to go to the Grand Canyon unless you're going to hike at least a half a mile down into the canyon. The idea of if you just walk, you can't fat. It looks like a painting or a photograph when you just walk up to the South Rim and it's incredible. But it's like, what is it? A 90 minute drive from Flagstaff just get out of the car and be like, yeah, there it is. And then turn around and drive back. No, you got to get down in that thing. Even if it's just to get over the lip and then all of a sudden once you're just down in there, it's a whole other, you're like, whoa, this
Justin (41:58):
Is
Colin (41:59):
Freaking
Justin (41:59):
Incredible. No, I get it.
Colin (42:00):
Yeah. Alright man. We can wrap it up there. What's going on with you? Are you still writing?
Justin (42:06):
Well, I'm working on, I'm working on River Roters or River Otter Weekend River Der Fest. Yeah. That's kind of taken on the bulk of my, it starts pretty soon, so I kind waited too long for the marketing, but I guess it sounds like Kona might be here, so that'll be fun. We'll see. They're
Colin (42:22):
Pivoting into Pack. Raf, I think is what it is. Kona Pack.
Justin (42:26):
I think people would come to the River Otter Festival. I would. I'm going to go down there and open a beer. You know what, I never go to hang out at this little swimming hole down here. It's not really hot enough yet, but I should do that.
Colin (42:36):
Alright, tell you what. Okay. Next summer. If Gear and Beer is really now become like an audience, we'll get together at
Justin (42:43):
Your street at River Rodder. That'd be awesome. Be like, we're
Colin (42:44):
Going to be here and we won't give out your address or anything. We'll be like, we'll be at this spot. Come hang out with the Gear beer crew.
Justin (42:50):
That'd be so rad. Well, my neighbors who have relocated for nine months while their house gets renovated, they rented an Airbnb right over the creek. It's the same creek that's behind my house, but it's a few blocks that way. But they're like, yeah, when the water's lower, we've walked all the way over here before I'm like, oh yes, I might even do that this afternoon. Just throw on my waiting boots and just grab a beer and just trudge down the river to their, because I know they'll be outside on their patio. That's awesome. They work from home. Awesome. What's up?
Colin (43:14):
Alright, well the Rock Fights a production rock fight, LLC for Justin Hausman. I'm Colin Tr, thank you for listening here to take us out. It's Krista Makes with the Rock Fight Fight song everybody. We'll see you next time.
Justin (43:26):
Chris, I love, I wonder how many podcast intros he's done
Chris DeMakes (43:42):
Where we speak our truth, stay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. We talk about human power, outdoor activities and big bites about topics that we find interesting like my culture, music, the latest movie reviews, ideas that the head, this is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Welcome to.
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