Today Doug opens the container with Chad Brown to discuss changing the narrative around conservation.
Filmmaker Chad Brown is a passionate advocate for environmental justice and founder of the nonprofit Love Is King. During this conversation he and Doug discuss the intersection of conservation and social justice, emphasizing that true conservation must recognize the sacredness of land and its cultural significance.
Chad highlights the importance of diverse voices in the conservation movement, particularly those of BIPOC leaders who have historically been marginalized. He shares insights from his latest film, Resilience Rising: Echoes of Owhyee Canyonlands, which captures the journey of five BIPOC leaders as they explore and connect with the land's deep history and significance. Chad also reflects on the healing power of nature in his own life, particularly as a veteran dealing with PTSD.
The discussion culminates in a powerful reminder that actions taken today shape the world for future generations, reinforcing the idea that love and community are essential in the fight for justice and preservation of our natural spaces.
Learn more about Chad's environmental justice work by clicking here.
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Episode Transcript
Colin True
00:00:00.240 - 00:00:58.650
This is Colin True, and if you think outdoor media might be broken, come join us over at the Rock Fight, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree, because this is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. Every Monday, join me, producer Dave, and our industry insider and consigliere Owen Comerford to dig into the weeds of the business of going outside.
On Wednesday, we get a little more adventurous as accomplished outdoor journalist Justin Houseman and I talk about the latest headlines to come out of the outdoor adventure community, and Fridays are reserved for hot takes and special guests. There will also be parting shots and views expressed that you probably won't get from a corporate press release or a standard outdoor podcast.
So join us on the Rock Fight, where we break down the outdoor industry by saying the quiet part out loud. It's an open discussion and we'd love your feedback.
So don't forget to bring your rocks, look for and follow the Rock Fight on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast, apparently.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:01:02.180 - 00:06:25.130
Welcome to Open Container. I'm Doug Schnitzbahn. I'm a journalist, writer, and overall lover of the outdoors.
I fought wildfires, reported on national politics, published magazines, and I even once had to move an outhouse uphill by hand. Today we are going to talk about the way we see conservation.
For decades, the battle over conservation has taken place not out in the wild, but in the courtrooms, in court and in Congress.
Conservationists have been able to fight developers, international mining companies, logging operations, grazing all of these uses of public lands that tend to degrade natural ecosystems.
These industries have a lot of power and sway in Congress, and many Americans have grown to see land and its resources as something to be used part of a massive economy. I am not naive enough to think that we do not need these resources.
Thanks to visionary legislation including nepa, the Endangered Species act, the Wilderness act, the Migratory Bird act, and more recently the Omnibus Lands act and the Inflation Reduction Act. The American conservation movement has been able to fight to preserve wild places and the species with whom we share this earth.
These victories have saved the outdoors. I was lucky enough to work in the trenches in the conservation movement.
In 2000, I was hired by a group that included the Sierra Club, the Wilderness Society, the Idaho Conservation League, and smaller groups like the Committee for Idaho's High Desert and the now defunct American Lands to document the geological, biological and cultural wonders of the Oahe and Bruno Canyonlands.
We advocated for the creation of a national monument in the southwest corner of Idaho, where the state intersects with Oregon and Nevada in a tough political climate, we were not able to get the monument created. Our efforts did result in some wilderness protection for the Uwahi, which was created in a bipartisan effort.
But the vast majority of this place is still vulnerable to bulldozers and dollar chasers.
While few people have heard of the Oahe, it is the largest chunk of roadless land left in the lower 48, with soaring rhyolite cliffs and endless expanses of sagebrush that explode with a dawn chorus of migratory songbirds in the morning. It's truly a place where you can find space and silence and connect to the wild heart of the planet. It's also a place with an ancient heritage.
The Bannock, Paiute and Shoshone people lived here for countless generations and still use this land. Which brings us back to today's topic.
The reality is the conservation movement has all too often been dominated by white voices when it comes to arguing for reasons to protect public lands. We argue not for the value of the land itself, but for the use, the utility of the land.
And even when we protect it from extractive industries, we still prioritize recreation or other scientific uses. The conservation movement has also been accused of being exclusionary, preserving places simply so the privileged can play in them.
And there has been an uncomfortable reckoning among modern day conservationists that some of our heroes, such as John Audubon and even John Muir, were outwardly racist. As the conservation movement evolves, it needs to acknowledge the problems of its past and expand into finding new voices, new thinking.
People of color are our most vital conservationists. They are seeing conservation and wild places as something more than spaces for utility, but as sacred spaces.
Places that connect us to our ancestors and ourselves. Places that have a right to exist on their own. My guest today, Chad Brown, simply describes conservation as love. He should know.
Chad is a champion of environmental justice for both people and wild places. A filmmaker and conservationist, he's a Navy combat vet and the founder of the nonprofit Soul river and Love is King.
His films, including Blackwaters, Sickenick, and Inward, focused on voices that are not heard enough when it comes to conservation and the healing power of the wild. He has won numerous awards, including the African American Filmmaker Award of Merit.
He is one of the hardest working, dedicated and most energetic people I know in the outdoor space. His latest film, Unveiling Echoes of Oahe Canyonlands, follows a group of Bipoc leaders as they travel through and interact with this sacred space.
It is a beautiful ode to new voices and ways of thinking in the wild so let's open the container with Chad Brown.
And without further ado, I'd like to introduce one of the hardest working people in the outdoor industry and a constant inspiration to me, Chad Brown. Chad, good to see you today with all your gear behind you there, ready to go.
Chad Brown
00:06:26.790 - 00:06:28.846
Nice to see you too, Doug, man. Yeah.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:06:28.958 - 00:06:36.770
So first thing I wanted to ask you, and for you to kind of tell everyone, is how did your career evolve? How did you end up becoming a filmmaker?
Chad Brown
00:06:37.950 - 00:12:30.360
You know, I. My background in the creative space, basically, it's. I went to school for design, photography, communication design, basically.
And that launched me into the opportunity to work in different design firms and ad agencies throughout New York and also la.
And through both of those spheres of New York and la, I not just started out as a designer working as an art director, but also had quite a few projects that came across that allow me to get my feet wet around commercials. And my role, my first role, I remember when I was at Campbell ewald West in LA, was working on a TiVo campaign. Now I'm starting to tell my age you.
But yeah, and it was me actually helping out and concepting, storyboarding for TV and also work with radio.
And so that was where I started to cut my teeth, really, into telling stories, using storyboard and bringing that storyboard, executing from it, like an art director, into the space of tv, you know, film, basically, you know, and so I spent quite a few time, you know, in that space around commercials, working with many different artists, everything from radio to voiceover artists talent. And it definitely gave me 360 exposure into that kind of space of production.
And, you know, and then that's when things started to kind of fall off for me a little bit. You know, I definitely took a turn in my life because I'm a combat vet.
And so that robbed me out of that creative space where I had to really focus on my mental health, of the issues I was dealing with from combat, basically, in the military.
And then when I came out of that space of dealing with working through my mental health, that put me in a better position where I was really ready to get back into society. And doing that, that put me in a position to open up two organizations that I run.
And then while I'm doing that, it also allowed me to start stepping more into my creative mindset. And. And what I found now, since everything, you know, it's interesting because we grow in many different ways, right?
You know, how we do and what we do yesterday is a whole lot different when we are. When we have faced Any type of resistance of life, you know, adversity, et cetera.
And that changes us in our minds, our perspectives, even as artists, creatives, you know, and we approach things a lot differently. And so that being said, what I went through it, I would say, I would say it changed me more into a social, environmental conscience type of creative.
And that really became my new call to action for myself to start walking that path.
And when I started embodying that, embracing everything that, you know, it definitely opened up many opportunities where I start to see where now like yesterday I was in this space doing commercials and, and, and promoting cigarettes and beer, you know, and stuff and brand and you know, working with brand companies and all that kind of stuff, you know.
But today, you know, my, my new path and what I pursue is finding these really interesting stories that are hidden in our environment of nature around many different diverse voices, you know, and there's many different layers of storytelling within that space that's pretty much kind of untapped, you know.
And that's where I started to really focus my time and energy, my creativity into telling stories through film, you know, and using that backdrop of storytelling that I've learned when I cut my teeth in la around doing commercials, you know.
And so that same form of execution, like as an art director on the commercial set and working with storyboards, working with the director, I carry that kind of same kind of workflow into my films. And only difference is that I'm not doing a two and a half, three minute spot.
I'm doing a storyboard story that will span itself into a 20 to 45 minute story, you know, and that just means I just have to provide more storyboards for that, for that type of engagement, you know. But that's, that's kind of like my, you know, that's how I got into filmmaking. And of course the.
Not a big fan of a lot of things that you see that Hollywood puts out.
And, and so I, I like to more live into that raw documentary type of space just because, you know, dealing with real people, not actors and actress and being able to elevate and bring those stories to the bigger screen.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:12:30.520 - 00:12:51.262
Sure. And you've gone into this in such full force, that always impresses me.
You were the founder of, you know, besides the films, you're the founder of Soul river, you're the. Which is an award winning organization that brings you that fishing. You're the founder of Love is King.
And then how many independent films have you made at this point and how many awards have you won with, with.
Chad Brown
00:12:51.286 - 00:14:10.210
Those films I have made round around six films now. Okay.
And I have been, I, to be honest, I, I, I have not been counting the awards, but quite a few of my films has been winning many awards on an international level, you know, and, and it went beyond what I expect. And so we have one, we won awards in Hong Kong, Australia, Japan.
There's a, there's another, I can't think another, there's another place in the, like in the Middle east area. But it's really amazing the, the, where these films are just popping up in many different film festivals and getting this kind of recognition.
And you know, I, I wish I had the opportunity to step into Australia or Japan or Hong Kong at these film fest because I would be really curious to see how that kind of storytelling land them, you know, in, in their culture basically.
And so, you know, that's really intrigues me but it's, it's pretty, you know, it's pretty amazing to, to be able to get that kind of recognition and, and, and, and, and in those awards, I think. Yeah, it's, I don't do it for the awards, but they're definitely coming.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:14:10.330 - 00:14:34.200
Oh, they're important. Yeah, we need, we need that kind of recognition. Right.
And I mean, I think, I think one of the great things about all your films too is they're, you know, I think they delve into your experience too, finding healing in Wild Places and maybe you could tell people a bit about, you know, how much what wild places mean to you and how they've been so influential on your own life and then how that works into your own art and filmmaking.
Chad Brown
00:14:34.360 - 00:18:05.882
Wild Places means to me, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a sacred place to me.
It's kind of like, it's like me going to church, you know, and I'm in an environmental space where nature is the pastor and I take the front seat in nature and allow nature to basically, you know, illustrate the importance of my being and who I am in this world. Nature gives me a reflection of, of my path and that path could be, and that could be from anyone.
But that path is not always purdy and, and great, but it forces you to look at that, you know, and it forces you to stare it down and reevaluate that, you know, and when you can reevaluate that path, that's when we start to do the work on ourselves.
And so nature allows me to be messy and it allows me to be happy and it allows me to be, to be thankful of where I'm at, you know, and, you know, it's a true blessing of when we are in nature and become a witness to what's happening around us. And it's delicate and it's so special to allow her to work through you.
Learning how to be able to sit in silence and to sit in space, wide space, wide open space in nature is a powerful, powerful position that I choose to take as much as I can.
It's kind of like seating myself in a field of medicine, a medicine of joy, a medicine of love, you know, a medicine of strength, you know, that I can be able to dig deep and get recharged and be able to thrust forward and take charge, even though I may not have it all together or I may. I may be operating full on duct tape. But it's okay, you know, because that's just the.
That's just kind of like the life process that we have to go through.
Not everything is going to be perfect, you know, but the most important thing is when you do that work on yourself, you build that kind of confidence to where you say, you know what? I may not have this and I may not have that, but I'm going to be okay moving forward, and I'm going to be okay, you know, taking lead.
I'm going to be okay to get up in the morning and move forward and do what I need to do, you know, because I know that there is a higher source, which is that profound of what nature provides you, is going to support and provide and have your back moving forward, you know, and so nature is like me going back to church, you know, it's. That's. That's. That's what it's like for me. It's. It.
It feeds my soul, it feeds my mind, gives me a compass in how I need to operate and move, you know, it's. It's. It's a beautiful relations that I personally have with nature.
And everybody has many different styles of relationship, but that's my relationship with nature.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:18:06.026 - 00:19:04.522
I love that.
And I had some other questions for you, but I think you talking about nature as church really makes me want to hop right ahead and talk about your latest movie, Resilience. Echoes of the Oahe Canyonlands. And especially I found this movie really powerful. And part of it is it feels like going to church because you combine.
I mean, you combine gospel music and these amazing quotes of Martin Luther King Jr. With images of BIPOC leaders out on the Oahe river in the wilderness.
One of the most striking moments for me is when the film just starts and Martin Luther King, we hear him giving the I have a dream speech and he says he's seen the promised land. And you cut to these leaders looking out over the Oahe Canyonlands. Yes.
How important was it for you to merge those two things that many people might not think go together? Wilderness and the, and the civil rights movement and spirituality, you know, it's, it.
Chad Brown
00:19:04.546 - 00:22:04.286
Was so, so important for me to, to try to find that, that transition of, of exploration, you know, and, and, and so you have an older leader, you're like an elder Dr. Martin Luther King, who has been making so many awesome waves moving forward throughout our historical of humanity.
And then this transition comes into these young leaders that are embarking on this exploration. Martin Luther King embarked on this exploration of humanity and grappling with these societal issues that are coming in.
And it's really about obtaining respect, obtaining dignity, obtaining just the, the equalness of us operating in one society to move forward in the act of love.
And then you have these young leaders that are also embarking on this exploration and looking beyond into the land where this land, you know, historically, you know, it's been fighting over it's bloodshed on this land has been taken away from indigenous communities, the voices, etc and so that's a new exploration that we are now embarking on is putting back what was once taken. Right. You know, and protecting what's important to protect.
As we have done as man, we have done a damage to a lot of our land, dismantling things, etc. And a lot of us are now waking up. So that's that exploration of waking up.
Time to rise up and realize that we have this opportunity to put back, we have this opportunity to protect.
We have this opportunity to step in and correct what needs to be corrected and put back in place for people, for our next generation to be able to come up and be able to enjoy this kind of space. You know, we have done enough damage already.
And so yes, it's a complicated landscape, you know, with the Hawaii King, it's a definitely complicated landscape.
There's many different stakeholders on many different levels, you know, and some of those practices may be good, some of them may be bad to the environment, etc. And it's been a long, long fight. But you know, that's the whole part of this new exploration of these bipoc leaders stepping into.
It's time to like, let's get in, explore. We may have to roll our sleeves up and get a little dirty here, but we need to Put back, you know, what's, what's been taken. Right.
You know, we need to protect that. Yeah.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:22:04.478 - 00:22:14.490
Let's take a step back for a moment and maybe you can tell everyone you know the impetus of you creating this movie and kind of the idea behind it and who's in it.
Chad Brown
00:22:14.950 - 00:26:02.224
I've been to the whyhe Canyons quite a few times and I'm aware that the state of where the issues are trying to protect the Wahe can.
There's been many leaders before me from many different organizations etc that's been trying to establish a protection for the Oahe Canyonlands, you know.
And so when I've through a couple partners when they basically gave my organization love is keen this opportunity to bring BIPOC leaders into this space and undocumented, you know it's, it's kind of like this is probably the first time of bringing an all BIPOC group into the Oahe Canyonlands on a six day river run trip, you know.
And, and so the whole purpose is, was to bring these leaders into the space and for them to become a witness to the, the many issues that are happening on this river in the Owyhee Canyonlands is to engage in conversations and learn from many different folks and guides et cetera and take that in instead of like challenging, challenging, challenging, become this witness and just embody what's happening and then we can sit and have these conversations of ideas and our thought leading type of ideas of how we can find solutions to help work with this.
And apparently it's a very complicated, you know, landscape but I believe that you know, through good strong leadership and open mind ideas and being unconventional because I really believe that we have to be very unconventional to approach this, we can find a way to protect the Owyhee Canyonlands.
Senator Ron Wyden has been raising the flag for a very long time marching, trying to find the right solution and the right opportunity to protect the Owyhee Canyonlands. And that's still have not yet came to the head of where we want to protect it basically.
And so this is kind of like a really awesome opportunity with the BIPOC leaders who are in this film and who have embarked on this like you know, this awesome journey through the Owyhee river, becoming a witness to Hawaii Canyonlands and learning this, this gives another support layer tied in that's tandem with Senator Ron Wyden's campaign basically you know and, and, and, and these leaders now will be leading the charge with the protected Wahe Canyon Lands campaign to help push this, the beauty about this is that, you know, I think when we, when we're talking about conservation and protecting spaces, wild spaces are even, you know, and learning about like you know, mining or you know, farming, etc. That's a small space of the conservation space that lives and people live in. That's also a privileged mindset.
Top level education, you know, but beyond that, in your, in your common day to day of urban world, people don't even know who Hawaii is, you know. You know.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:26:02.312 - 00:26:37.026
Yeah, and that's something, maybe, that's something maybe I'd add for people who don't know. It's amazing. The Canyonlands is an area that spans Oregon, Idaho and Nevada. It is the largest chunk of roadless land in the lower 48.
It's an incredible place. It's where the Yellowstone hotspot first erupted. It's these incredible rhyolite Canyonlands. It's a place for migratory songbirds.
It's an incredible chunk of land. There's an incredible history there of indigenous people, Bannock people. Most people don't know about it. Right. And it's not protected.
Chad Brown
00:26:37.138 - 00:28:40.170
So it's not protected.
You know, and, and I, and I think if we played the cards right and have the right alignment of organizations aligned with the work that I'm doing, that's going to give a really unique, different twist on this platform through these BIPOC leaders because they are influencers themselves and they have their own outreach as well in their communities. And so what I'm saying is this is an opportunity to collectively work together to create a diverse army.
And that diverse army expands not just in conservation space, but it extends out of that conservation space into urban spaces, you know, and those urban spaces starts to raise that awareness to all the issues that are happening. And then it's like, oh my gosh, I didn't know about this place, what can I do to support or what I need to do, etc.
And so this film, it, it tells the stories of these BIPOC leaders on this experience. It challenges the, you know, the, the, the many different, you know, you know, the societal or social, you know, stereotype, stereotype norm.
It raises the, you know, the, the, the, the racism issues of history, you know, and so you get a, you, you're listening and learning on many different levels.
But the most important, we are at the end of the day elevating the importance of this space that's needed, which is grounds of sacredness, it is grounds of healing for all people. Right.
You know, and, and, and so I think, you know, this film will be definitely a beacon, you know, to people beyond the conservation space to help raise that awareness and bring the Hawaii into new living rooms, basically.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:28:40.250 - 00:29:15.360
But, yeah, love it. Yeah. And that's. I mean, I think that was part of what was so powerful for me too, when I heard Martin Luther King talk about the promised land.
And we see the UAHI is that, you know, the people who fought in the civil rights movement, you know, because of their work, new people can go to the Oahi now who couldn't have gone there probably in the 60s. Right. Without being scared. That's something really powerful. Now, could you tell us a bit about some of the leaders?
I mean, there's several leaders, but, you know, who are the people you chose? And you know, tell us specifically some of the people who were featured in the movie. I found them also great to listen to in it.
Chad Brown
00:29:16.460 - 00:32:10.714
Yeah, I, you know, try to go down the list. You know, one of the leaders comes to mind is doctor, Dr. Lisa Collins. She's an amazing woman.
I really enjoy holding space with this woman every time I see her. She's just an amazing woman.
Her background is centered around, you know, racial injustices, around the psychological and generation of what things has happened.
And she has this beautiful way of breaking those things down and being able to look at them, help people find healing through that process and build them back up. You know, she's a. She's a really deep woman, you know, and it was really a blessing to have her. Have her there.
She does a lot of work with national, with the National Park Service as well. And. And she's been pretty much every time I do a trip, she's. She's the first one to join. She's always there with me. You know, we have a.
A gentleman by the name of Mich Crenshaw. He's a really interesting guy. He has a deep love for protecting the public lands, period. You know, deep love is protecting nature.
But he does not look the part. And that's the beauty, you know, that's the beauty that I, That I embrace because I like the fact that.
Because there is this kind of mindset that you have to dress this way and look this way to fit this, this outdoor. You know, I don't know what you call it, you know, uniform, whatever, you know, And Mike comes. He comes into wild spaces as himself.
He's a hip hop artist. And just by me saying hip hop artists and by default, what does that look like?
You know, you know, with the hat to the back and all that he comes into that space like that, you know, and that's how he, he moves through the outdoors and, and he has a phenomenal following. He's been around in the business for, for decades and you know, and he's a very well established hip hopper.
His, his music is played all the way, you know, all over the world and you'll find a lot of his music on npr.
You know, he's a social justice and also an environmental justice hip hop artist and he does amazing, amazing work and he definitely has a really unique lens when it comes to, you know, climate change conversations and in protecting public lands. His lens is really unique and it's, and it's very, what he says is very, it is very important.
He, he would have you go into a deep thought, you know, like, you know, he's a, sure, he's a really awesome guy.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:32:10.842 - 00:32:29.656
I'd say, you know, it's great. I mean, I'd say hip hop's arguably the greatest cultural movement of our whole generation. Right? So why shouldn't hip hop include wilderness?
Why shouldn't it include conservation? Right? What, what barriers should there be there that say that? Right? Hip hop is about, is not about one thing, right? So.
Chad Brown
00:32:29.808 - 00:33:54.626
Exactly, exactly. Hip hop is a, is definitely a big historical cultural movement. It's, it's part of the fabric of, of, of the, of America now.
You know, it really is, it's part of that fabric.
And you know, and it's definitely, it definitely intersects in, in, in the political space, the conservation space, the social space, you know, the justice, the injustices.
It's, it's just, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's another map in how we can raise awareness and of the consciousness and, and, and, and use hip hop to help basically make change happen as well. You know, I think it's sad if someone want to turn their back on hip hop culture. It's, it's, it's.
I would say, like, you know, you, you really need to slow down a little bit and think about what you're, what you're about to do, because hip hop culture is so powerful and it has been, again, a compass into how our nation is driven even from the top of the hill of Capitol Hill politics down to the streets. You know, it's very, very powerful, Very powerful and globally.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:33:54.658 - 00:34:45.190
Right. I mean, I go to Norway and there's these, you know, white Norwegian kids who are rapping or hip hop influence. Right.
You know, and I think on the other end too, I think what you Said before was maybe if there's a hip hop icon out there in wild spaces, maybe some people who live in urban spaces who never thought before that conservation was part of their story, that wild places were part of their story, maybe they'll be made more aware to that. And as you said, see that injustice, the story of injustice follows through to this land as well.
I mean, in the film there's a really powerful spot, I think, where you cut just for a moment to chained feet and then cut back to the wilderness. And that was a really amazing cut in the film for me too, and powerful, where you can tell that injustice is part of this story.
Chad Brown
00:34:45.570 - 00:35:31.150
Yes, yes, absolutely.
It's another form of the way I look at it in fighting the injustices and balancing out in a natural environment to where it's fitting, that the beauty is that, is that it gives another voice and another opportunity to speak to younger generations, speak to mainstream. Basically. That's a code, that's a communication that may not land with me, but it can land with others, basically.
And that's creating diversity opportunity. Right. You know, that's showing diversity in a really unique, special way, in a very artistic way.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:35:31.190 - 00:36:34.156
Yeah, yeah. And I think that comes through too, in a lot of your films too.
I think what you're doing is you're focusing on stories of, from people of color and it doesn't matter what the white mainstream culture wants these stories to be, but we're going to get stories of how a black man sees the wilderness. Right. Or how a black man sees conservation. And that brings in really important new perspectives.
And one of the most important ones I saw in this film was conservationists talking about saving a place simply because that land is sacred, because that lands holy, because that land brings you closer to God. Right. And I think that's a conversation about conservation that we should have on a national level as well, where a lot of.
Yeah, a lot of white conservationists just want to talk about utility of land. You know, it's good for recreation, it's good for medicine, it's good for money. Right.
I love the idea that we can have new voices talking about conservation for people who've been left out before, as well as for the sacredness of the land itself.
Chad Brown
00:36:34.348 - 00:40:01.658
Yeah, let's bring the soul back, you know, let's, let's bring that back. Let's start having some heart, heart to heart conversations.
I think when we can open that, that up and get people to see that it's not that utilitarian how it's always been. It's there's some soul in this land that we need to protect. You know, we can all benefit from this. This is, this is a sacred land.
This is sacred grounds, you know, and, you know, and, and being able to have diverse voices to be able to speak to that. The importance of protecting the Oahi is, is, is critical.
You know, the strategy in telling, you know, in the storytelling that I do, you know, having one voice and one experience could be challenged, but having five to eight and being able to collectively come together of many different thought leaders can't be challenged. It can only be listened to.
And it can only be listened to to a point where it starts to educate and make you ponder, you know, it makes you think differently or you may need to go do more research and go deeper, but it's non threatening at the same time, you know. You know, and so when you have one voice up there, it's kind of like preacher to the choir basically.
And that can be intimidating, that could be threatening.
But when you have a collective of diverse voices coming together in a collective thought process of leadership and talking about the most important thing that means to us, which is supporting, protecting and loving nature, etc.
It does start, become a wave of information that can basically lace over many, many, many different people and it would educate people at the same time. It doesn't become a back and forth, you know, type of challenging questions and everything.
It becomes more of like, wow, okay, you know, because how can you challenge seven, eight, nine different diverse voices? Right?
You know, it's, it's, it can, it can only, it can only make you want to learn and want to know more if you don't know, you know, and, and, and so I think that's just my, my way as, as a director is, is, you know, it's like coming up under the layers of, of of the things in our society that makes us, that makes us cringe.
Well, I'm going to come up underneath there with love and I'm gonna this and this is how I'm gonna execute love and inject love into and you have no idea, I'm injecting love back at you, you know.
You know, but I'm using this heart of love and the elevation of many leaders and, and love is not something that's always going to, you know, hug you, but it's also going to wake you up, you know, it's also going to make you think, you know, these are gifts that, that's coming in on many different levels whether you're prepared or not prepared. But it's coming at you and it's going to embrace you with love, period, you know, and, and, and that's, I feel like that's really powerful.
That's just kind of my way of giving back through, through storytelling, basically.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:40:01.754 - 00:40:23.570
Yeah, well, and you also, I mean, it makes me think, of course, of your organization, Love is King, and, and that's, you know, I think that's your driving force at all. You do, right? I mean, that's, that's all you do is what you just explained to me.
But maybe you can talk a bit about what loving Love is King is and how that informs everything you're doing and how people can get involved even. Right, yeah.
Chad Brown
00:40:23.650 - 00:43:47.326
You know, Love is Love is King.
It's a small organization based right out of Portland, Oregon, you know, and its mission is really, it's really centered around, you know, creating safe spaces and wild spaces where all people can comfortable and create beautiful experiences in the act of love inspired by Dr. Martin Luther King's writings, basically.
And when I mean, love is that I'm talking about like if I'm a leader and I'm in a wild space and I'm leading a group or if I happen to be hiking by myself and if I see something that's happened to be, you know, an issue of bigotry, hate or ignorance or racism without not making sure that I'm going to be okay. But in the act of love, we should be able to stand up for the ones who cannot support themselves and be there for them in the act of love.
That's my brother, that's my sister, and I'm willing to step in and be with that person to make sure that they are okay, you know, and so that's what we need collectively to move forward, especially when we are in the, you know, roaming in the outdoors. Even in our urban world, we need that kind of synergy.
For many folks, it's not just bipoc, it's a collective of humanity coming together, which, that's what Martha, Dr. Martin Luther King preaches. That's what he envisions, you know, is that respect, that dignity, that inclusion of bringing people together.
And it's the same thing in this within the organization of Love Is King, you know, and those, those things that you hear in the urban world that are the injustices and the bigotry, the hate and the ignorance that rolls itself right over into the outdoors, you know, those same people. And so we need to be able to be resilience in how we step forward for one another and Be there for one another.
And then with Love is King, it's also about obtaining and injecting new leaders in a conservation space, bringing more diverse voices to the table, being able to talk about the issues that are happening and be part of that process.
And so historically, you know, it's been government, white collectives of coming together stakeholders and talking about many different issues and establishing these rules and regulations and how we regulate, but we need to open that up, and we need to open that up with more diverse voices collectively.
We still need to have our white brothers and sisters at that table, but we also need to have different types of, you know, black and brown people at that table to.
To collectively come together and talk about how we should regulate these, these outdoor engagements throughout the outdoors of nature, basically, and making sure that we have an indigenous voice at that table. Right, Absolutely.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:43:47.358 - 00:43:47.970
Yeah.
Chad Brown
00:43:48.470 - 00:45:21.758
You know, and, and so, you know, it's. It's so Love is King definitely got a lot of work to do, you know, but it exists, you know, and, you know, we've been.
We've been making some really beautiful moves, you know, you know, creating these really amazing, you know, BIPOC leaders that's. That are now, I mean, just like Dr.
Lisa and Mike Crenshaw, who I mentioned earlier, they have taken the flag and they're speaking and carrying the Love is King mission into their workflow.
You know, they're going into spaces and they're speaking and getting hired and coming in and holding these, you know, Q and A conversations to becoming keynote speakers, and they are acting that out and talking about the important stuff, how we need to come together and be part of the bigger picture.
Because right now, a lot of us, we want to see, we're looking at what's right in front of us, which is kind of ugly, you know, but if we can get past that ugliness, which is that bigotry, hate and ignorance, which will always be there, but we got to be able to create the kind of vision that steps and pierce through what's right in front of us. Right?
And we can create the kind of vision then that puts us on the other side, which helps us find better solutions to deal with that ugliness right in front of us. And those are. That's the kind of visionaries that we need to start creating and helping to foster these leaders in that space.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:45:21.814 - 00:45:41.620
But, yeah, yeah, I mean, I think one of the best things I heard recently was when during the Olympic soccer match, Tyler Adams, the captain Iranian journalist, asked him, he was like, how can you live in A country where you're not treated equally. And his response was awesome. It was just like, well, it's getting better every day. And I love that.
I love that it said, like, we have the power to work. Right?
Chad Brown
00:45:41.740 - 00:45:43.348
Yeah, that's right. Absolutely.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:45:43.444 - 00:46:12.232
And I think there's something also important in what you're saying, too. I think when we're looking at conservation that, you know, from my perspective, white voices have been the only voices for far too long.
It's important to get everyone at the table, but I think it's also important to have people of color, black people, indigenous people, whoever, get to have their own voices, their own experience, instead of just trying to pop them into the white conservation mold, too. Right. And I think that's something you get across really well in the film as well.
Chad Brown
00:46:12.416 - 00:47:31.518
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wanted to make sure to show that and also make sure to show as even visually, in a subtle way, that how we show up is different. Right.
You know, how we show up in. In wild spaces within the conservation space is different. We bring culture. We bring, you know, a new. New thought process.
We are wired from our environment. We are a product of our environment. It doesn't matter how vast of our growth as leaders, but we.
But where we come from does come out of us as we moving forward. And so it's a beautiful thing to see a grandma's quilt in the environment of the outdoors, you know, that's a beautiful thing. You know, it's. It's.
It's not just one size fit all, you know? You know, it's.
It's beautiful, you know, and when you have different dialogues and, you know, different conversations and, you know, in different ways of doing things, even the food is just, you know, is different, you know, and. But that's the beauty of having and supporting diversity in the outdoors, you know, and that's what makes us.
That's what makes us whole as a collective humanity. That's a beautiful thing.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:47:31.574 - 00:48:16.660
Yeah, I love it.
And another really powerful point, I think, in the movie is one of the leaders was talking about ancestors and how, you know, when we go to this land, we're on the land of our ancestors, especially for indigenous people who were on this land for their whole existence and then it was taken away. Right. But also for black people, also for white people. You know, there's a long history in this land. It's the land of our ancestors.
And what was really powerful to me was when that leader then also said that I am an ancestor. Right. That the things we're doing now are Going to affect these children, grandchildren, great grandchildren that we might not even know. Right.
How does that work throughout the film and throughout a new perspective on conservation and land.
Chad Brown
00:48:16.780 - 00:50:10.220
I'm an ancestor. Yeah, we don't think about that.
And again, that's that new thought process that's challenging folks to think differently that the actions and the things that we do is going to be.
Hopefully we can establish that domino effect to where our children for the next generation be able to reap and enjoy the work that we're putting in to help supporting and protecting the Oahe Canyonlands or any other, you know, land that we're trying to support.
You know, it's also giving a nod to, you know, the, the past of many different, you know, people who have established themselves in the various of different lives that has done the work and paved the road for many to walk down. And we don't do enough of that indigenous people, do they?
They're very much always having that reflection and giving that nod to the ancestors and leaning to their ancestors, you know, and.
But yes, when we step into this space, especially in this environmental justice space and we are going up against the grain here to establish something greater and bigger than ourselves, we become the ancestors of laying ground, laying a new way of, of moving this movement and path that will help others be able to follow and walk down that path, basically.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:50:10.300 - 00:50:35.380
And this is why I'm so impressed with your work all the time, Chad, because you're always giving in your work. You're giving people the space for their stories, you're giving space for new people to come into the outdoors. You're giving space for kids to learn.
I mean it's great work that you're doing all the time. What are you working, what's the. I mean, I know you're always, I'm always shocked but you got another project out. So what are you working on now?
What's that? What are kind of the new projects, next steps for you to be working on?
Chad Brown
00:50:35.840 - 00:51:43.480
Yeah, so I just got you finishing shooting this year a film around Bipoc veterans and bringing an all black veteran team into a conservation space where these veterans are, they don't know each other, they come together and it's a forged, kind of like a hand forged fire of these veterans are forging themselves in this space where they are being forced by nature to do a self reflection of who they are and the issues that they carry, which round like ptsd, tbi.
But through this process, connecting with nature, it brings them into the space of awe and the space of wanting to protect as a leader and becoming a conservation advocate for our public lands, freshwater and indigenous communities. The working title of this film is called the Guardians.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:51:43.820 - 00:51:54.820
And how can anyone listening or anyone out there, how can they help you in your efforts in general, in your filmmaking? In Love Is King in the Guardians film coming up, how can people get involved if they want to?
Chad Brown
00:51:54.860 - 00:53:00.608
And yeah, you know, this, you know, you can always reach out to me through love is king.org and I'm always looking for volunteers and support. A lot of my filming that I do is off the grid backcountry.
And, you know, and so I'm always looking for many different types of resources that I could be able to tap into to streamline the process. You know, it's, you know, so.
And financial wise, you know, it's, you know, in the film and independent film, you're, you're constantly knocking on the door, right? You know, trying to raise money to meet a budget, you know, and so donations helps out greatly and that, that's basically done through Love Is King.
A lot of my film, everything that I do is actually under the umbrella of Love is King, you know, and so you can donate to the organ that will help out greatly and that will help me continue to do this kind of work, basically. Yeah.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:53:00.704 - 00:53:20.260
Great. And one more thing I think we have to talk about.
Anyone who's met you in person knows that you're usually not by yourself or I don't think ever by yourself. You've also got a great companion here in Axe, your service dog.
You want to tell us just a little bit about Axe and what it's like experiencing wild places and doing your work with a service animal.
Chad Brown
00:53:20.590 - 00:54:35.844
Yeah, Ax is an amazing service dog and I'm really blessed to have him in my life. You know, it's funny that we're talking about Ax and he's right here by my feet. Yeah.
So he's made, he, he, he's with me in every wild space journey that I go. And he's, he acts as my rock, he helps me as my compass. You know, he's trained to, you know, detect, you know, my ptsd.
And he has the ability of helping me work through my triggers if, if they happen to come. And Axe has seen everything from negative 40 below zero weather to crazy storms. And we've been in the thick together, you know, he's.
Yeah, it's, it's an amazing to, to be able to, to have a dog that, that's, that has, that he's just full on resilience. And. And. And. And can. And he can. He can take a storm, you know? You know, and he's. He's. He's beautiful. I. I really appreciate. Everybody loves Axe.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:54:35.892 - 00:54:37.240
Yes, they do. Yeah.
Chad Brown
00:54:38.300 - 00:54:46.924
You know, and we were on trips in the backcountry. You know, people, you know, they just. Yeah, they. People want to cuddle up with them, but they can't because he's working.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:54:47.012 - 00:54:48.220
Service dog. Yeah.
Chad Brown
00:54:48.380 - 00:54:58.732
Yeah. But he becomes. He definitely becomes kind of like the mascot of the team when we're out there. And just. Yeah, people just really, really love.
Really, really love acts. Yeah.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:54:58.796 - 00:55:13.130
Love it. Love it. Well, unfortunately, I could talk to you for another hour, but we're unfortunately out of time.
And I have one last question to ask you that I ask every guest, and I think it's a good one to end on, and it is simply. What gives you hope?
Chad Brown
00:55:14.150 - 00:56:17.168
What gives me hope is me being a witness to see what we learn is transferred over to someone else where they can be able to pick up and learn from that. And then being able to transfer that over to someone else is the education, it's the humanity, it's the love. It's the transformation of. Of.
Of being able to gift another person that gift and allow them to take and run with that, but also be able to transfer the same over to someone else. It's. It's. That's. That's.
That's hope to me, you know, and that tells me that when we establish something that's powerful and great of change, there's going to be someone that's going to pick that up and carry that torch and pass that torch over. That's hope to me. But, yeah.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:56:17.264 - 00:56:20.460
Yeah, that's beautiful. Love truly is king, right?
Chad Brown
00:56:21.320 - 00:56:22.848
That's right. Absolutely.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:56:23.024 - 00:56:31.260
Thank you so much, Chad, for being my guest, for being on here, and I hope that everyone sees the new film and can connect with you through Love Is King.
Chad Brown
00:56:31.360 - 00:56:32.800
Thank you. Take care.
Doug Schnitzspahn
00:56:33.580 - 00:57:03.980
Thanks for imbibing Open Container, a production of Rock Fight, llc.
Please take a second to follow our show on whatever podcast app you're listening to us on, and send your emails and feedback to myrockfightmail.com learn more about Chad Brown and his work in films@chadocreative.com and loveisking.org our producers today were David Karstad and Colin True. Art direction provided by Sarah Genser. I'm Doug Schnitzbahn. Get some. Thanks for listening.