Today Colin and Justin start the show with a conversation about the use of xenon gas by climbers on Mt. Everest as a means to reduce risk at high altitudes.
Haters take note: is it really any different then fixed ropes or supplemental oxygen?
Then they are joined by outdoor journalist and writer Doug Schnitzpahn, the host of Open Container, aka the newest podcast on The Rock Fight Podcast Network.
Doug talks about his reasons for creating the pod, emphasizing the broader significance of the outdoors in our lives and how it can serve as a source of healing and creativity.
Colin & Justin then talk about the news that Moderna is close to a vaccine for the Norovirus (aka the stomach bug) which has many backpackers, thru-hikers, and parents celebrating, before opening up the mailbag and responding some listener emails.
Finally they wrap things up with The Parting Shot! Justin takes umbrage with off roaders in Death Valley while Colin has a new rule for outdoorsy employees of outdoor brands.
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Episode Transcript
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:00:00.240 - 00:01:03.170
The outdoors is not a niche. It's way bigger than that. The outdoors is essential to our lives, essential to who we are as a species.
And as the world continues to get smaller, as new advances in technology push us to the limits of the planet, the outdoors is more important than ever. Open Container is here to explore this new idea of the outdoors.
We'll strive to uncover stories about creativity, adventure, conservation, politics, and the people who make the outdoor space so vibrant. The world is full of anxiety right now. Climate change, politics, cultural upheaval. But fear not, there are answers in the outdoors.
I'm Doug Schnitzpahn, and on this show, we will talk to people who are looking to nature to find the solutions we all need.
We will be having honest conversations about how the outdoors can change us, how it heals us, how we learn from it, and how we can build a better world from what we learn about being outdoors. So please join us. Open the container and find out what's inside. Let's get some.
Colin True
00:01:06.270 - 00:01:14.490
Open Container launches January 21st. Find and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Chris DeMakes
00:01:15.070 - 00:01:22.770
Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight.
Colin True
00:01:23.550 - 00:01:41.746
Welcome to the Rock Fight, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head.
I'm Colin Tru, and joining me today, we found out that he's been betraying this podcast as a secret puff and drinkware fan this entire time. It's Justin Houseman.
Justin Housman
00:01:41.938 - 00:02:01.806
I do have a puffin drinkware somewhere. I'm surprised that I have more. Those seem like they're.
I wonder if their entire like, like plan was like, you know what, Every brand will buy one of these as, like, swag and we'll just sell them to every brand because that's like such an obvious swag thing. But I only have. I have an Eddie Bauer one and I don't remember why, like, where. I think it just show up in like a Eddie Bauer gift pack.
Colin True
00:02:01.838 - 00:02:11.806
One day I was going through, I was looking for some new photos for our Instagram post and I was just trolling your Instagram and I found a picture of a puffin drink wear back in the day that you posted.
Justin Housman
00:02:11.918 - 00:02:17.454
They're cute as hell. That they are absolutely darling. I mean, they are very cute.
Colin True
00:02:17.502 - 00:02:17.774
Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:02:17.822 - 00:02:27.646
I mean, my little can has arms and it's wearing a puffy. It's wearing a parka. I'm demonstrating. I'm demonstrating what it looks like when you have your, like, arms stick.
Like, I'M a little teapot wearing a puppy. I'm a little teapot.
Colin True
00:02:27.678 - 00:02:29.850
Yeah, you're a can of beer right now.
Justin Housman
00:02:30.710 - 00:02:35.898
I mean, honestly, I basically have a walking can of beer at this point. Colin, I'm not afraid to admit it.
Colin True
00:02:35.954 - 00:02:40.458
I was. I was a little taken aback when I saw the old puff and drink wearing your proudly displayed in your.
Justin Housman
00:02:40.514 - 00:02:53.018
Dude, you were like, you were. You. Are you like, are you like an old crush? Like, deep. Yeah, that is deep spit all over my screen. Good Lord, man. I wish inst.
God, I wish Instagram was searchable in your own feed. I don't think it is. Right?
Colin True
00:02:53.074 - 00:02:58.330
So much I wish for Instagram that it, you know, wasn't related to Mark Zucker. That would be great.
Justin Housman
00:02:58.370 - 00:03:02.554
Like there was a time where I would take pictures for Instagram through Instagram. It's like, well, that picture's gone.
Colin True
00:03:02.602 - 00:03:03.098
I did that.
Justin Housman
00:03:03.154 - 00:03:05.990
Cuz it's like it's not in my phone, it's just in Instagram, I think.
Colin True
00:03:06.030 - 00:03:09.062
Yeah, you go way, way back in videos don't have audio anymore.
Justin Housman
00:03:09.126 - 00:03:21.654
You know what I love is when you go do the. When you do the deep dives, cuz I'm not immune. And you realize that like everybody in the world in like 20, like 12 and 13 were.
Were using the same filters. Like, we were all like, oh, this looks cool.
Colin True
00:03:21.782 - 00:03:22.966
I was a big Amara guy.
Justin Housman
00:03:22.998 - 00:03:27.170
Oh yeah, dude, had to. That was the one that was like every single shot was that way.
Colin True
00:03:28.030 - 00:03:29.094
Put a border on now.
Justin Housman
00:03:29.102 - 00:03:52.750
I wouldn't even, I wouldn't even dream of using a filter now. I mean, like, I might use the Lux one, but like, I would never.
People like some friends of mine, like, all their family pictures are like, clearly, like all, like, I don't know what, they do something that makes it look whiter, which is crazy because they're pretty white people as it is, you know, and like, it's like, what do you. Why are you. It's like trying to make it look like a freaking Nordstrom catalog or something. Anyway, that's awesome.
Colin True
00:03:52.830 - 00:04:14.986
Yeah. Yeah, Instagram. Well, today Justin and I will be reacting to some stories that come out of the outdoor adventure community.
We're also going to be joined by Doug Schnitzbahn, who's the host of the latest podcast to join the Rock Fight Podcast network. It's called Open Container, available now. He's. He's going to stop by to talk about his new show.
And we got a little mailbag on top for the end of the episode. And the end of the episode, it's A jam packed rock fight today.
Justin Housman
00:04:15.058 - 00:04:27.930
I can't believe I have not called out the fact that the first known like actual surfable. That's not true. There was one in Japan, but the first like American cool wave pool was the Schlitterbond.
And I still haven't like made like a connection with Schnitzbon Schnitzbahn.
Colin True
00:04:28.010 - 00:04:30.650
Oh, I'm like, whoa. Like what do we connect to?
Justin Housman
00:04:30.690 - 00:04:34.568
Every single time I see his name written out, I'm like, I need to make a Schlitter bond joke.
Colin True
00:04:34.754 - 00:04:36.652
I bet he. And he's the kind of guy that would know it too.
Justin Housman
00:04:36.676 - 00:04:38.332
Oh, he definitely knows it. Yeah, he definitely knows it.
Colin True
00:04:38.356 - 00:05:20.120
Yeah. Dougie.
Well, before we get to the Schlitterbahn or anything else of that going on the episode today, we want to remind you you should go back and listen to Monday's episode of the Rock Fight. If you have not, or even if you have go listen to it again. You get to check out my thoughts on TikTok and outdoor brands as well as Owen Comerford.
Pop by to talk about the rumored MEC sale and then come back this Friday for my conversation with Andrea Kelly, who's the founder of make plus Equal.
I teased this last week, but we kind of waited to bump Andrew because we had the opportunity to talked to Shantae Salibar last week about the LA fires. So Andrew's gonna be on the show this week. That's on Friday.
And now, you know, I think Justin's gonna tell you a little a few other things about what we have going on here at, at old Rock Fight hq.
Justin Housman
00:05:20.200 - 00:05:26.900
I'm going to demand that you, that you subscribe to the Rock Fight weekly newsletter right now, folks. Anyone listening? Do it.
Colin True
00:05:27.440 - 00:05:29.820
You're being so calm that it's actually more intimidating.
Justin Housman
00:05:30.720 - 00:05:41.780
It's, it's, it's just such a good newsletter. I mean, like, I wish I wasn't involved in some way because it'd be, it'd be fun to just sort of have it.
I have no idea what's in it because it's really that good. It's so much better than any.
Colin True
00:05:41.820 - 00:05:44.308
But you're the secret sauce that makes it that good, I think is what.
Justin Housman
00:05:44.364 - 00:06:28.400
Not really not that much of a secret. It's, I mean, it's just so much better than any other, like outdoor newsletter you're going to get.
It's full of original content which, well, eventually when I get around to it, start putting that stuff on the website too. But for now it only exists on the newsletter, which is awesome. And we work really hard at making it great.
So go to the new go to the Rock Fight website rockfight Co and you'll get your little pop up to join the mailing list and you click it, the pop up goes away and boom, you're subscribed. And every Tuesday you get a little smile on your face.
Also, if you're new around here, or even if you're not and for some reason have not subscribed to our podcast, please hit the follow button on whatever podcast app you are listening to us on and give us that coveted five star rating. Please, please, please, please do that.
Colin True
00:06:28.520 - 00:06:50.118
Hey, lastly too, we're open for business over here.
If you want to seek out some advertising opportunities on the Rock Fight or over on Open Container or in our newsletter, we have lots of opportunities to share with you. Our media kit and rate card are on rockfight Co. That's just, you know, to start the conversation.
You can also just drop an email to myrockfightmail.com and say, hey, like to, you know, talk to you guys.
Justin Housman
00:06:50.174 - 00:06:55.330
You can also just partner up. Mail a physical check to Justin Houseman, a P.O. box one.
Colin True
00:06:56.750 - 00:07:10.980
How much? How many times do we have to ask before someone hey, yes, we are soliciting checks for Colin and Justin today. It's the Hausman True fundraiser.
Just send your checks on over. Yeah, don't ask what you get for it. We get the checks. That's how this works.
Justin Housman
00:07:11.060 - 00:07:14.040
It goes to stuff that is cool.
Colin True
00:07:17.580 - 00:07:33.780
All right, let's get into our top story today, which is presented by your hub for ultralight gear. Then that is garage grown gear. So the first story we have today, really, it's a question for us.
Who had January 19th in the first Everest story of the year poll? It's early this year. Everest ever season came early.
Justin Housman
00:07:33.900 - 00:07:38.500
Yeah, I mean, I guess people are already making their plans for what gas they're going to huff the mountain.
Colin True
00:07:39.960 - 00:07:58.960
That's. That's exactly the nature of this article.
So because according to an article by Angelina, excuse me, by Angela Benavidez on Gear Junkie last week, a group of commercial Everest climbers plan to chemically boost their acclimatization and performance by sipping xenon gas. Xenon gas, not xenomorph gas, which would turn you into a crazy alien. Xenon gas.
Justin Housman
00:07:59.040 - 00:08:01.840
Super useful though I don't think they would have any issues with the altitude.
Colin True
00:08:01.920 - 00:08:02.928
I think they'd be fine climbing.
Justin Housman
00:08:02.944 - 00:08:05.872
They want climb like. Nope. Like nobody's business too.
Colin True
00:08:05.976 - 00:08:21.000
Right.
So xenon is it typically an anesthet with A side effect that boosts the EPO in one's blood basically allows red blood cells to multiply without acclimat acclimatizing. The plan for this group is that they get together.
Justin Housman
00:08:21.460 - 00:08:23.932
Is it. Sorry, is that what EPO means?
Colin True
00:08:24.116 - 00:08:34.892
Yeah, EPO is like, that's what you always hear like about cyclists blood doping where they kind of increase the red blood cells to increase performance. With that way you can have like less oxygen and still get a higher performance. Okay, I think that's right.
Justin Housman
00:08:34.916 - 00:08:35.596
I'm not an endurance.
Colin True
00:08:35.628 - 00:09:23.084
Any cyclists out there that tell me that I've got that wrong, send it on in to myrockfightmail.com but the plan here is that a group of commercially led climbers will gather in Kathmandu during an Everest weather window this spring. They'll receive xenon therapy in a clinic and then immediately fly to Everest base camp for an immediate summit push.
They aim to be up the mountain in three days and then down in one. So it's a four day weather window. They think they can. This will increase their chances of summiting.
It said in the article there's expected backlash from the mountain community, but the leaders of this expedition say the whole thing is rooted in safety because it's basically going to help prevent things like hape and haste and all the other sort of like nasty things that can happen to you at altitude when you're not properly acclimatized. Justin, your thoughts on xenon gas?
Justin Housman
00:09:23.132 - 00:09:48.580
All kinds of thoughts. One, I guess the first throwaway thought, do we like, is there any. Is any.
Well, I guess probably people with like 100 grand to burn and minimal levels of mountaineering experience. Who's calling who. Who out there in the world is going, let's make it easier to climb Everest for people. Like, let's reduce barriers to entry.
Like, are isn't the entire outdoor community united in spirit that there's too many fucking people climbing Everest all the time?
Colin True
00:09:49.120 - 00:09:50.088
Well, that's true.
Justin Housman
00:09:50.184 - 00:09:58.392
And so we're like, oh, let's pioneer a way to make it easier to like eliminate potential like roadblocks for people. We're doing that now.
Colin True
00:09:58.576 - 00:10:01.540
This one I'm kind of okay with. I don't really.
Justin Housman
00:10:01.840 - 00:10:10.276
You know who's not okay with it is the World Anti Doping Agency. Because it is on the band list of substances. Did you know that I gu. Xenon gases. Because of. Because it. It's blow. It's.
Colin True
00:10:10.308 - 00:10:45.902
Well, that makes sense. You can see the dots are connected here, right? Like, well, hold on. Like cyclists use this to elevate you know, oxygen in their bloodstream. Right.
I think this. I don't know how different this is, though, than people just, you know, wearing. Using a supplemental oxygen. Right. It's just kind of.
It's all kind of the same. It's in the same ballpark. I think if you have an issue with this, it's the same thing. Like, I think it's like it should be.
You want the sport to be pure and you make it completely on your own effort. And then you should take things away, like supplemental oxygen and Sherpa support and fixed ropes and everything else. Right.
I mean, it's kind of like this is just a progression of any of that. Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:10:46.046 - 00:11:33.324
I just love that there's. I do enjoy that. That. Whether it's, you know, I'm guessing that you're right.
That they probably, like, learned about, you know, maybe these climbers realize that cyclists are doing something similar, or any endurance athlete is doing something similar or has thought about doing something similar with xenon gas, and they're like, what can I. I'll put just about anything in my body to make this. I do love the sort of willingness to just try random shit like that. That's kind of neat.
And, I mean, I don't have a problem with it. Like, I'm never going to climb Everest. I don't care. But it is kind of funny to me that, that, you know, it just. It just seems.
I mean, if it's just for the sake of these people trying to see what happens, great.
But I mean, if it makes it that much easier and you don't have to worry quite as much about acclimatization, you're just going to get more people on the mountain. Right.
Colin True
00:11:33.482 - 00:12:11.472
I think it's a purity of the sport thing, too. Like, I'm offended on behalf of alpinists that it gets to this place as well like it should be. You know, we talk about Trump's gonna rename Denali.
It's like, oh, it's a sacred place. That's why we changed. They permanently changed the name from Mount McKinley. It's like, where's the backlash for these. For the. I know.
And look, okay, we talked about a lot on the show. Yes. They're trying to clean it up, they're trying to do more, but the demand clearly is. And it's a huge economic driver for Nepal.
So this is not a simple topic. I understand that. Don't me. You know, people who are listening, but just on principle, I kind of.
Another thing I look at is, you know, with the the digital inclusion of, like, referees and umpires in sport. You know, it's like either have.
Justin Housman
00:12:11.576 - 00:12:13.552
Didn't expect robot ups to make an appearance.
Colin True
00:12:13.616 - 00:12:20.848
You like this conversation? I'm reaching, but it's either have it all be digital and perfect.
Justin Housman
00:12:20.944 - 00:12:21.408
Yeah.
Colin True
00:12:21.504 - 00:12:23.920
Or have it be human and imperfect.
Justin Housman
00:12:24.000 - 00:12:56.492
Yeah, I. I mean, I. I'm with you. I'm with you. The romance is there, but, I mean, you're right, though.
Like, what's the difference between this and bottled oxygen? Probably, honestly, nothing. Probably nothing. But I don't have a problem with it at all.
This has turned into more of, like, a why we think that, like, I don't know, Everest is overdone. I will say it's true. Xenon is a really cool word. It is a cool, like, great word. Yeah. I just love to have xenon. Just generally speaking.
I mean, xenon is a great name for, like, a alien villain. Great name. Yeah.
Colin True
00:12:56.636 - 00:13:01.708
You should open a xenon in San Francisco and, like, you know, just honestly, like.
Justin Housman
00:13:01.844 - 00:13:11.624
Yeah. I mean, maybe you can. I don't know. I got to look into where you get xenon. I like, I guess Amazon, probably. You know what? Let's find out.
Let's just do a little.
Colin True
00:13:11.712 - 00:13:16.460
Take some. Some. Some cascade for the old dishwasher and a few containers.
Justin Housman
00:13:17.040 - 00:13:19.864
Okay. Where to buy? Okay.
Colin True
00:13:19.912 - 00:13:22.760
Oh, Costco.
Justin Housman
00:13:22.840 - 00:13:29.340
Yeah, I don't think that's right. Oh, you can get it on ebay. Xenon gas, research grade. It's expensive.
Colin True
00:13:30.000 - 00:13:30.712
How much?
Justin Housman
00:13:30.816 - 00:13:31.698
Let's see.
Colin True
00:13:31.864 - 00:13:35.262
They did say in the article that was one reason why it was going to be. It's like 5,000.
Justin Housman
00:13:35.366 - 00:14:04.220
So this. I don't know how much is in this. It's 99 point. You rarely see the third nine added. 99.999 pure.
I can't tell what the quantity is, but I can tell you that it's. It's $3,000 and it's in. It's in four people's carts right now. Four people are thinking about getting it.
Those people that are going to climb Everest, they're still not. They're like, well, three grand. Oh, wait, now you can get away cheaper. Lucidaria Science.
Colin True
00:14:04.560 - 00:14:09.080
Well, that's. Yeah, if it's cheaper, you know, it's not the good stuff. It's not like 15 blue meth from breaking Bad.
Justin Housman
00:14:09.200 - 00:14:31.854
Did you know that next to neon, xenon gas is the only gas with a fairly widespread use exploding the property of gases to ionize under high voltage, which gives off a colorful glow. So apparently, xenon will Also glow like neon. Hell yeah. Dude, I want to get. I'm getting some xenon. Let's do this as an experiment.
Let's get some xenon. It says, yeah, you can get it for 15 bucks. Let's get some. You can get a 10 by 40 mil ampule. Let's see how much it costs.
Colin True
00:14:31.982 - 00:14:35.150
How do you sip it? How do you not? Like, can you OD on it? Like, what if you.
Justin Housman
00:14:35.190 - 00:14:37.182
I don't think so. I'm pretty sure you can.
Colin True
00:14:37.286 - 00:14:39.810
Sorry, guys. Justin's out of the pod today. He died.
Justin Housman
00:14:40.230 - 00:15:05.702
I think we should try this and just see like my. I have an endurance athlete neighbor and he is aging and bored by all the things he's done.
So he's decided to become like a, like a world class mountaineer.
And so he, he went and climbed a bunch of like 20,000 foot volcanoes in South America earlier this year, but he spent two weeks before that sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber or whatever. Acclimatization. Acclimatization tent.
Colin True
00:15:05.846 - 00:15:06.406
Oh, okay.
Justin Housman
00:15:06.438 - 00:15:09.462
And so he probably knows all about this.
Colin True
00:15:09.566 - 00:15:13.350
I think about it, he might have something over there you might be able to walk over and try.
Justin Housman
00:15:13.390 - 00:15:21.250
This afternoon he was like, dude, I feel amazing. Like, he'd be like, I'd see him every morning in the coffee shop. He'd be like, I just feel like I could like run farther and like bounce off stuff.
So.
Colin True
00:15:21.790 - 00:15:43.030
Yeah, well, there you go. There's another thing that people are doing to kind of help their efforts. I mean, on the face value alone, I have no problem with this.
If you have the money, you're spending the money to go like they get you on and off the mountain. It's probably safer from that point of view.
Like, if there's a weather window, you're not going to get stuck because somebody's like dragging ass because they're not on xenon gas. I don't know. Ultimately, I don't really have a problem with it. I just think like, it's, it's.
Justin Housman
00:15:43.190 - 00:15:46.614
Well, either way, I'm trying some xenon out. You're going to do it with me. All right. It's going to be great.
Colin True
00:15:46.702 - 00:16:11.186
I'll do it. Let's do it. Well, today's top story was presented by Garage Grown Gear. So our sponsor today, Garage Winter Sale is live right now.
It's happening right now. Everybody head over to GarageGrownGear to check it out. There's great deals on a wide range of ultralight brands.
So if you're new to ggg, it's the perfect time to dive in. It runs through next Monday, the 27th. So shop the sale@garagegrowing gear.com.
Justin Housman
00:16:11.258 - 00:16:12.710
They might have xenon.
Colin True
00:16:14.490 - 00:16:16.546
Lloyd. Let's ask xenon.
Justin Housman
00:16:16.578 - 00:16:17.618
You got xenon?
Colin True
00:16:17.794 - 00:16:18.690
Only ultra light.
Justin Housman
00:16:18.730 - 00:16:20.082
Got the big Z. Yeah, of course.
Colin True
00:16:20.186 - 00:16:21.586
They have these little tiny capsules.
Justin Housman
00:16:21.618 - 00:16:26.670
Well, yeah, the, the ampoules are titanium, not the, not the heavy aluminum everybody else is using.
Colin True
00:16:27.780 - 00:16:50.476
All right, let's, let's bring in Doug Schnitzbahn to talk about Open Container, his new podcast on the Rock Fight Podcast Network.
All right, Justin and I are joined now by famed outdoor journalist, writer, editor, firefighter, outhouse, uphill pusher, and add podcast host to that list. It's the host of Open Container. Doug Schnitzbahn's here. What's up, Doug?
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:16:50.668 - 00:16:54.026
Hey, great to be here and great to be part of this team.
Colin True
00:16:54.178 - 00:17:16.714
So we wanted to have you on the show launched yesterday. This episode comes out on Wednesday. The show came out yesterday. Open Container is the name of it.
Just, you know, listen, it's another outdoor podcast. We're producing it here at Rock Fight. So, yeah, we're cross promoting a bit by having Doug come on this show.
You've been on the show before, so it's not that weird. But just for the listeners of the Rock Fight, Doug, what is Open Container all about? How would you describe it?
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:17:16.882 - 00:17:29.334
Well, I like how David describes it, which is kind of like the NPR of Rock Fight. So we're going to take a little a bit of recline. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Every month I'm going to ask you for donations.
Colin True
00:17:29.382 - 00:17:32.806
Do you want your Open Container tote bag? This is, this is your shame.
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:17:32.918 - 00:17:36.022
Yeah, I would like an open container tote bag. I like that idea, actually.
Colin True
00:17:36.046 - 00:17:37.222
I would too, frankly.
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:17:37.366 - 00:18:17.090
But no, the idea of Open Container is we get to take a real deep dive conversation with different people who are real thought leaders and movers and shakers in the outdoor space.
And we're really expanding on the idea of what the outdoors is, that it's not just some niche as it's often portrayed or as it is portrayed in a lot of podcasts or it's not sports related necessarily, but it is part of the fabric of everyone's life at this point and a really important part of that and that conservation and getting outdoors and health are all important to everyone in the world.
Justin Housman
00:18:17.210 - 00:18:37.460
So what's your like? Do you have a sort of a guiding philosophy about who you want to have on the show?
Is it people that are either just like that you're hearing buzz about that, you want to see what's going on with them or these people you've want to talk to for years. Or is it kind of a mishmash, sort of a potpourri, if you will, of guests?
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:18:37.620 - 00:19:42.600
I think it's a potpourri.
But really the guiding principle is that we want to have deep conversations about the outdoors on a level that goes beyond, as I said, goes beyond just sport or goes beyond just getting outside, but really gets to look at deep problems and solutions facing everyone. So I think so far, it's kind of a potpourri. Right.
A lot of the people we have on for the first eight guests are people I've known for a long time, like Luis Benitez, who's pushing for a national outdoor recreation department. I've known Luis for a long time. So he's kind of a friend as well as a colleague, as well as someone I really respect. It was great to have him on.
At one point.
I'm going to talk to one of my first bosses in the outdoor world, Jonathan Klein, who was wilderness manager in the Beaverhead Deer Lodge National Forest. And I, I worked for him digging trails, and he's got a book out now about wilderness. So it's a real mix of people.
And then I also, you know, we'll have some aspirational people. I've just been dying to talk to Jeff Tweedy, if you're listening, we want you on.
Justin Housman
00:19:45.060 - 00:19:57.940
Do we do. Because I want to talk about how I like how that's shots fired here. We could talk about how Jesus Christ, Sun Voltage is a far better project than.
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:19:58.400 - 00:19:59.240
That'll get him going.
Justin Housman
00:19:59.280 - 00:20:00.616
That'll get him. He'll leave.
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:20:00.648 - 00:20:02.488
He'll just leave. He hates that.
Colin True
00:20:02.624 - 00:20:28.244
I mean, the funny thing is about this and for people listening a long time know that I've kind of on the record of kind of detesting most outdoor interview format podcasts mostly because I don't feel like either the host or the guest have a lot to say. It's more just like, let's put this person on display and talk about them. And then it ends up being mostly not interesting.
I think the, the fact that the way you are structuring the episodes and if you've not listened to it yet, listeners, you'll see when. When you check out the listened to.
Justin Housman
00:20:28.252 - 00:20:29.320
It, because it hasn't.
Colin True
00:20:29.740 - 00:20:32.884
I came out yesterday. We're recording this in the past, but.
Justin Housman
00:20:32.892 - 00:20:35.240
It'S air time is weird, you guys.
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:20:36.060 - 00:20:38.532
It's gonna bend. We're gonna bend time and space in.
Colin True
00:20:38.556 - 00:21:21.026
This podcast, but Doug opens every episode with sort of a point of view on a topic, right? Which leads to why that guest is there.
And it's like, so there is a, there is some, a little bit of a through line between, you know, kind of what we do in the rock fight of like, there's a, there's a curious point of view that leads a lot of the topics.
However, there's a, like, like Doug mentioned, it's a bit more of a, A, you know, an NPR approach or, or a, or a long form interview to kind of answer some of those questions. You know, what is it about? You know, I guess ultimately what you've developed, like, we've helped you produce it, but ultimately this is your show.
You know, why did you decide to cover some of the topics you decided to cover? Like, what is it that was kind of interesting to bring Luis on or Jonathan or Caroline Gleich, or, you know, Danny Raz Acosta? Like, what.
What is it about it that made you, you know, what were the topics that led you to those folks that, that were interesting to you?
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:21:21.098 - 00:22:54.538
You know, I think it starts with the people, right? Each one of those people is really interesting to me, and I love the art of talking to people.
So what's important to me is talking to those people and really getting to the root of what they're about and how it plugs into the outdoor world in a larger way. I mean, someone like Luis was pretty easy to talk to because he has this big idea of a national outdoor recreation department.
So that is obviously the topic. You know, I think someone like Caroline is great to talk to Karen Gleich, who just ran for Senate in Utah and his ski mountaineer.
But beyond all that, what's really amazing about her is how she uses social media to be vulnerable as a ski mountaineer or as a politician. And, you know, she's endured the slings and arrows of all sorts of ski bros telling her how awful she was.
So that leads into being able to survive politics, which might not be as bad as someone telling you your ski form is wrong on a cover or something like that. Right.
So I think it's a combination of topics that I'm interested in, in, but really people I'd like to talk to and get to that kernel and then that spurs for me, you know, more thought on these topics or ideas.
You know, we've also got like Danny Razacosta talking about who, you know, filmmaker and journalist and marketer, everything else talking about who gets to tell the outdoor story, who Gets to put the outdoor narrative out there. And that led to me writing an intro about.
About my beginnings, looking at ski films that just happen to have a lot of bros in them and how that's changed now for a really good, good way.
Justin Housman
00:22:54.594 - 00:23:42.798
God, this fits. So this just fits. So. I mean, I realize that we're promoting our own show here on the.
On the network, but I mean, this just fits so well with, like, what we're trying to do. I'm just so happy to. I'm just so happy like, presenting this sort of like, like, just like not. There's just.
It's just not, you know, it's like real people telling real stories. We're not worried about, like, pissing off sponsors, not worried about any of that sort of stuff. It's just, just.
It's just real folks having a real conversation. And like, we've been trying to build a community that we've seen lacking in the outdoor space for so long. That's why we're even talking right now.
You know, Colin and I, because we both have the same drive to build that sort of thing. And so I'm just so happy that. That we're expanding that even more also. I mean, what a what again? Having President Trump on the. For the first.
For the first episode, too. I mean, he's welcome him.
Colin True
00:23:42.854 - 00:23:43.886
He can come on up and get.
Justin Housman
00:23:43.958 - 00:23:47.262
Easy, but, man, we have that right. That, That's. That's locked down.
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:23:47.286 - 00:23:50.526
Oh, would we have some. Would we have some questions? Would we have some questions?
Colin True
00:23:50.638 - 00:23:57.134
This is where all of his deportation raids are going to get announced on open container, like next week in Chicago.
Justin Housman
00:23:57.182 - 00:24:01.262
It's actually not bad. It's not bad. Colin, thank. Thank you.
Colin True
00:24:01.286 - 00:24:01.822
Thank you.
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:24:01.926 - 00:24:04.718
My first question has to do with the Village People, I think, but.
Colin True
00:24:04.854 - 00:24:06.330
No. Right.
Justin Housman
00:24:06.710 - 00:24:07.118
Just.
Colin True
00:24:07.174 - 00:24:17.466
Do you get it? Does anyone are. I want to know if his staff is behind the scenes, like, laughing at him like, he still doesn't know. He still doesn't know.
That would be amazing, actually.
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:24:17.538 - 00:24:20.990
Nothing like taking one of the greatest gay anthems ever for your conservative.
Colin True
00:24:21.970 - 00:24:26.106
Well, it's like use. Like Reagan using Born in the usa like the notorious, like, anti Vietnam song.
Justin Housman
00:24:26.138 - 00:24:30.314
At least you had to think about. That's pretty obvious, but whatever.
Colin True
00:24:30.442 - 00:24:34.090
That's a good point. Yeah. You could kind of look past it with the Springsteen one. That's true.
Justin Housman
00:24:34.250 - 00:24:34.634
Anyway.
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:24:34.682 - 00:25:04.546
But anyway, I just wanted to comment that. I mean, I. I'm just overjoyed to be working with you guys.
I've loved working, you know, know with Colin and Dave doing the production and kind of spurring me on to create a really great podcast. And the way you guys have set everything up, the way you guys have everything organized and. Yeah, and I just love the approach.
Obviously, it seems like the right place for me to be because I've never really fit in in structured environments, so I love being part of a team.
Colin True
00:25:04.618 - 00:25:06.642
Hooked in the outdoors. Wasn't structured. Come on.
Justin Housman
00:25:06.666 - 00:25:07.010
Oh, no.
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:25:07.050 - 00:25:24.864
And we are going to do a podcast on that for sure. But, yeah, I've always been kind of on that. You know, it's probably part of the outdoor space. Right. I've never been a.
A normal kid, never fit into the. Doing what I was supposed to do.
So I'm really excited to be working with people who have that same philosophy and are, you know, upending some things.
Justin Housman
00:25:24.952 - 00:25:25.376
Fantastic.
Colin True
00:25:25.408 - 00:25:57.724
Well, I guess maybe that's a good place to kind of. To wrap up. I think the.
I want to ask you because, you know, obviously people of our generation, people who, like, you know, cross paths with Justin and I, like, we all know who you are. We all got up reading your work, the. The magazines you published, whatever, like, talked on the outdoors or d Elevation outdoors.
But what for anybody who maybe isn't as familiar with what you've done? Like what, you know, guess what's your personal philosophy on the outdoors? Like what. What do you hope people take away from, like, your experiences?
Like what, you know, just kind of pump your own tires for a minute here about, like what. What do you bring to the table when it comes to open container? And what do you hope the listeners take away from that?
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:25:57.892 - 00:26:38.946
Boy, that's a really great question. I mean, for me, for the. The outdoors is, you know, I mean, I don't. I don't want this to sound too far out there, but it's really a sacred space.
Right. For me, it, you know, it's something I went to. I moved out west when I.
I was in a bad place and embraced skiing and climbing and building trails and all that really kind of turned me around and saved my life, I would say. And I get that every time I go out there, every time I bring people out there.
So I think in the podcast, I'd like to bring those same experiences to listeners. Experiences that I once heard a great thing about. Writing short stories. I got an MFA in creative writing and short stories.
Justin Housman
00:26:39.058 - 00:26:39.474
Iowa.
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:26:39.522 - 00:26:40.450
And there's this guy.
Justin Housman
00:26:40.530 - 00:26:41.058
Iowa.
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:26:41.154 - 00:26:43.405
I wish. Not Iowa. University of Washington.
Colin True
00:26:43.430 - 00:26:43.646
Okay.
Justin Housman
00:26:43.678 - 00:26:44.570
Just ask it.
Colin True
00:26:45.590 - 00:26:46.770
Go Huskies.
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:26:47.590 - 00:26:59.838
Yeah. Yeah. But there was a famous fiction teacher named Gordon Lish who they called Mr. Fiction.
And what Gordon Lish said Was that a short story's got to grab you by the collar and say I'm going to tell you something to change your life.
Justin Housman
00:26:59.894 - 00:27:00.462
That's great.
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:27:00.566 - 00:27:11.740
And, and I think that's important.
I've taken that into tried to take that into everything I do because what's the point if you're listening to or putting your time into something that's not going to make some difference for you. You.
Colin True
00:27:11.860 - 00:27:33.484
Thanks for coming on. Listen right now open container which according to Doug shit spawn will change your life. That's what he just said. Guaranteed to change your life.
It's available on every podcast platform out there right now. Go follow it. There's links to it in the show notes support the show and we and send all your feedback about that.
It's the same place you send it for this show myrock fight gmail.com thanks for coming on Doug.
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:27:33.612 - 00:27:38.766
Thank you guys. And as I said I'm really excited, really excited to be a part of this team working with you guys.
Colin True
00:27:38.948 - 00:27:57.082
We are too buddy. All right, thanks so much. All right, next story.
According to Katie Jackson over on the Trek Moderna, the company most notably known for its work creating the vaccine or a vaccine for COVID 19 is close to unveiling its MRNA vaccine for the norovirus.
Justin Housman
00:27:57.146 - 00:27:57.674
Thank God.
Colin True
00:27:57.722 - 00:28:37.798
And apparently this is a big deal for the thru hiking community because the norovirus which is the thing that causes horrible stomach it's stomach bug, right? This is the stomach bug that is not food poisoning. It's the stomach virus.
It can linger Norovirus can linger on multiple touch points such as privy doorknobs and shelter floors and apparently hand sanitizer ineffective against it. So it actually becomes a big deal for through hikers and backpackers separate of the outdoors.
There isn't much I'd probably celebrate more in life than a vaccine for the norovirus cuz that is the worst. Yeah but I had no idea that the of the outdoor upside of such a thing so I mean I don't know did you know about this?
Did you know this was a like a back like a backpacker problem.
Justin Housman
00:28:37.934 - 00:28:52.050
I know that norovirus can like rip through through hiking communities but I never really thought about as being and it sounds like this is a bit more like Europe and like Appalachian Trail specific because there's not really like shelter floors and stuff like on for western through.
Colin True
00:28:52.090 - 00:28:54.642
Hiking they reference a PCT specifically in.
Justin Housman
00:28:54.666 - 00:29:23.278
The I, I, I have to assume that that's just because the hygiene sucks and that you're potentially sharing things and you're within groups. I mean honestly you're, you're probably kind of back in daycare a little bit, you know what I mean?
Like you haven't washed, you haven't wiped your ass properly.
Great way of putting, you know, like you like you, you know, unless you have actual soap and you probably don't because it something you know, I want to bring with you in the backcountry. Like you're not going to be super, super clean. And so you show up and you bump into somebody and you offer each other a snack. Like there you go.
Colin True
00:29:23.414 - 00:29:24.862
There's an exchange of particles.
Justin Housman
00:29:24.926 - 00:29:34.190
Yeah, I've definitely heard a lot about norovirus and being a problem for through hikes. And can you imagine, dude, not a whole lot worse to experience. Imagine being dazed from anything.
Colin True
00:29:34.270 - 00:29:35.358
I kill me.
Justin Housman
00:29:35.414 - 00:29:43.810
Oh my God. Like I would panic. I would panic because I'd just be like dude, I can't walk. Like I'm out here in the middle of nowhere. Like you know how it is.
Like nothing feels worse.
Colin True
00:29:44.380 - 00:29:53.828
No, no. Jesus Christ. And. And to just be you know, going out and spraying down trees from both ends. Like and to your point, you can't get clean.
Justin Housman
00:29:54.004 - 00:29:56.640
Yeah. You can't just like go hop in the shower or something.
Colin True
00:29:57.020 - 00:29:59.380
Literal nightmare. Like this sounds horrible.
Justin Housman
00:29:59.460 - 00:30:01.156
And you can't watch anybody's experiences.
Colin True
00:30:01.188 - 00:30:04.388
And continues to go backpacking. I. I guess I applaud you. Like I don't get it.
Justin Housman
00:30:04.524 - 00:30:10.244
Yeah, I mean I've never, I'm trying to think if I've ever even had like a cold while backpacking. You know what I mean?
Colin True
00:30:10.252 - 00:30:11.172
Like that sounds terrible too.
Justin Housman
00:30:11.196 - 00:30:24.928
It sounds bad. I probably have. I mean but God, and you can'30 rock all day or whatever it is. It's gonna make you feel slightly better.
Like lay on the couch and just be like I'm gonna die. I'm out of my mouth somehow. I don't know what's happening.
Colin True
00:30:25.104 - 00:30:25.680
Right.
Justin Housman
00:30:25.800 - 00:30:38.976
And. But at least 30 rocks on you know like I'm just.
You're just up there on some like saddle like some like mountain saddle and it's just like all rock and you're just alone maybe and you're just thermost has a hole in it and you're an ultral lighter. So like your stuff isn't particularly comfortable.
Colin True
00:30:39.008 - 00:30:42.240
And you're just cuz you shopped at the sale the garage growing gear, you know, ultralight.
Justin Housman
00:30:42.320 - 00:30:49.652
You got there fast and easily. But man, you should not have shaped of shaken, you know, dirt bag's hand or whatever you thought I'll take half.
Colin True
00:30:49.676 - 00:30:53.348
The roll of toilet paper to save a little weight instead of the full roll. That was a mistake.
Justin Housman
00:30:53.444 - 00:31:05.364
That I will take this vaccine once a week for the rest of my life once it comes out. I realize that's probably overkill, but I've got two kids under six, you know, like, I don't need that anymore. There's nothing.
Colin True
00:31:05.412 - 00:31:15.412
I'm sure you've debated this like the do you want to have like the flu for a week or the stomach bug for a day day. And there was a time I probably said I'd rather get it done in 24 hours, but I'm like, no, I think I would take the flu for.
Justin Housman
00:31:15.436 - 00:31:35.680
I think I would take the flu. At least you can kind of function. There's always that period where you think I might die. Like I might.
I almost would rather be dead than dealing with this. Well, you know what? I wonder if through hikers. Through hikers. Okay, here we go. This is why you should listen to Rock Fight, folks.
You're going to get world class tips from world class hosts. I bet a lot of thru hikers aren't parents, right?
Colin True
00:31:36.610 - 00:31:39.994
Oh, yeah. It's always a big deal when someone's out backpacking with their kids.
Justin Housman
00:31:40.042 - 00:31:53.030
Yeah. Like if my wife is like, hey, I'm gonna go through, hike the PCT for three months like the. You are. What am I supposed to do with these kids?
So I'm guessing most through hikers are not parents. Or maybe they're not older parents. Okay, so they won't, they won't know about this.
Colin True
00:31:53.330 - 00:31:53.850
Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:31:53.930 - 00:31:55.882
Zofran. You know about Zofran?
Colin True
00:31:56.026 - 00:31:56.474
No.
Justin Housman
00:31:56.562 - 00:31:57.642
Oh boy.
Colin True
00:31:57.706 - 00:31:59.498
This is. I may have aged out.
Justin Housman
00:31:59.554 - 00:32:11.170
It's a miracle drug. So what is it? It's an anti nausea like drug that is, is like basic as far as every doctor I've talked to about it is like it's basically harmless.
It just, it will, it will make you not throw up. It'll keep you.
Colin True
00:32:11.210 - 00:32:13.618
Is that what like, like women, like with bad morning sickness?
Justin Housman
00:32:13.714 - 00:32:26.946
Yeah, maybe. I mean, I guess probably. But we, we, we always have it.
We get like recurring prescriptions from our pediatrician because our older daughter gets really car sick and so we'll just like give her a tablet before we go somewhere she doesn't. Yeah. So like if you're a through hiker.
Colin True
00:32:26.978 - 00:32:29.506
Try to get some Zofran and an Imodium.
Justin Housman
00:32:29.618 - 00:32:47.788
Well, yeah, but I mean like, it's amazing how well it works. And like I, I, from my understanding, it's not like you need to be throwing up.
It's not like there's the virus in you and you have to get it out by puking. Like, that's just kind of the reaction that it causes. So you're not like, doing any harm by not throwing up.
And apparently you can just take it constantly. Like there's not real side effects or anything, but. Yeah. Zofran.
Colin True
00:32:47.804 - 00:32:52.108
Wait. The norovirus doesn't have to get. You're not getting it out of you. That's just the effects of having the virus.
Justin Housman
00:32:52.204 - 00:32:56.524
That's okay. That is. That is what was explained to me by. Not my pediatrician, but by a.
Colin True
00:32:56.612 - 00:32:58.092
It somehow makes it worse, doesn't it?
Justin Housman
00:32:58.116 - 00:33:06.964
A physician assistant. She's like. I was like, well, well, don't. Because I went. And I was like, my girl. You know, because you. When you're like a.
A new parent and your kid's throwing up for like three days, you're like, I don't. This seems bad.
Colin True
00:33:07.052 - 00:33:08.036
Oh, my God, she's gonna die.
Justin Housman
00:33:08.068 - 00:33:23.300
And you go like, dude, you're the 30th person in here today with the same exact thing, you know? And. And she's like, just take all those friend you want. And I'm like, well, don't they need to be throwing up?
Isn't that, like their body, like, getting rid of it? She's like, not really with norovirus. Food poisoning, maybe, but not. Not like with norovirus.
Colin True
00:33:23.380 - 00:33:27.284
That makes it. That really makes it worse. That's one thing. Like, this is terrible, but at least it's getting.
Justin Housman
00:33:27.372 - 00:33:36.836
Maybe you only need to puke once. I don't know. I trusted her.
And honestly, I'd rather take the chance that, like, something terrible is going to happen to, like, my liver down the road or whatever, you know, like, because I didn't.
Colin True
00:33:36.868 - 00:33:40.740
Well, I guess the other thing you could try besides Zofran is xenon. Maybe that will help with us as well.
Justin Housman
00:33:40.780 - 00:33:46.484
Yeah, 100% get that. Get. You know, take them together. You'll get your. Your oxygenated really well and you won't puke.
Colin True
00:33:46.612 - 00:33:56.556
So, I mean, look, I. I would cover this regardless, because. An MRNA vaccine for the norovirus. Sign me up. Yeah. Okay. Flu, Covid. Normal noro. Let's go. Give me that shot.
Justin Housman
00:33:56.588 - 00:33:59.644
All day long. Does sound kind of cool. Flu. Flu, Covid. Noro.
Colin True
00:33:59.772 - 00:34:06.156
Just all at once. Yeah, let's do this. What else you got? What other vaccines you got back there? Robert Kennedy's, like, lingering.
We gotta make sure we get all the vaccines.
Justin Housman
00:34:06.268 - 00:34:14.520
Put them in a blender and just like, Jamba Juice style and Just give me. Give that big ass syringe like a liter size, a liter of vaccine and just pump me full of that.
Colin True
00:34:14.820 - 00:34:25.151
That's how we need to get past the RFKs of the world.
We need to have like a Jamba Juice out virus shop that just like that just prints cash all day long and be like, you'd roll up and you're just like, I'll take. I'll take a Noro and a do.
Justin Housman
00:34:25.255 - 00:34:26.687
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Colin True
00:34:26.783 - 00:34:28.255
Co last week. I don't need it.
Justin Housman
00:34:28.327 - 00:34:31.135
Yeah. Like, if that's a really good point.
Colin True
00:34:31.287 - 00:34:34.031
All right, Manny, we got a. We got a little mailbag. We talk about some emails we got.
Justin Housman
00:34:34.055 - 00:34:36.255
Yeah. Can you make some rustling up mail sound, please?
Colin True
00:34:36.327 - 00:34:38.335
Oh, yeah, I don't. What you. Oh, you always.
Justin Housman
00:34:38.487 - 00:34:45.295
I'm the sound effect guy. I don't have any paper. I got some Capri Suns to rub together that sound like paper.
Colin True
00:34:45.407 - 00:34:47.151
I can't hear it, but maybe we'll find out.
Justin Housman
00:34:47.175 - 00:34:48.979
All these Capri Suns on my workbench.
Colin True
00:34:50.530 - 00:34:56.470
All right, first up, we got an email from John a couple weeks ago. We talked about. I'm not sure which episode I talked about it on. I made reference to.
Justin Housman
00:34:57.010 - 00:34:57.594
This was true.
Colin True
00:34:57.642 - 00:34:59.754
The coat epoxy jackets were being sold in Costco.
Justin Housman
00:34:59.802 - 00:35:00.362
Yep. Yep.
Colin True
00:35:00.426 - 00:35:04.350
And which is sort of a oof. Moment for. For brands.
Justin Housman
00:35:04.690 - 00:35:08.390
There's only like how many steps do you think there are between Costco and Big five?
Colin True
00:35:08.690 - 00:35:09.338
Not many.
Justin Housman
00:35:09.394 - 00:35:09.962
Yeah.
Colin True
00:35:10.106 - 00:35:20.362
And you. And Costco is sort of the premium, like kind of big, you know, like club type stores. Like, it's a little bit better.
And there's some brands I think they can go into a Costco. Cotopoxy is not one of them.
Justin Housman
00:35:20.386 - 00:35:20.618
Yeah.
Colin True
00:35:20.634 - 00:36:04.342
So I referenced that. Got an email from a guy named Ja. Excuse me, A guy named John who runs a sales agency. They represent multiple outdoor footwear brands and gear brands.
And he writes in listening to the Rumple podcast episode now and heard the comment on Cotopoxy at Costco because that was the episode we mentioned. It turns out one of our international distributors sold to Costco without the brand's consent. Because he's a. He's a Cotopoxy rep. Yeah.
And it puts us in a tough position. So they're still tracking it down apparently. But like, I'm like, I. I immediately went from like, what the Are you doing cod Epoxy?
Like, oh, my go code epoxy. I really feel for you.
Because if I was like the sales manager of a brand and all of a sudden I woke up to, hey, do you know your stuff's being sold in Costco. I would. It would be. That would be a bad day. So I feel like you can't.
Justin Housman
00:36:04.406 - 00:36:35.026
You don't want to, like, bl. You don't want to, like, throw Costco under the bus or be like, put out a big social media blast.
Be like, we're sorry we're at Costco, because, like, that sucks. You know, like, this was an accident. You know, Like, I've. Honestly, as someone who's not worked. I've never. I guess I worked at Barnes and Noble.
I've really not had a lot of retail experience, and I don't understand a lot of how this stuff works. And it's interesting to hear you talk about, you know, sales channels and distribution channels and all these sorts of things.
Like, I'm learning quite a bit, but I. I wouldn't have even thought that was an option. So. That's fast. That's fascinating that that can happen.
Colin True
00:36:35.178 - 00:36:47.234
I did bounce that over to Owen Comerford, and he's like. He's like, yeah, I've heard of this happening with some other brands before.
Like, I guess sometimes people just get like, oh, we have the license to this, so we'll just sell. Oh, Costco. You want to write a big, fat check. Okay. You know, and then before you know it, stuff shows up.
Justin Housman
00:36:47.322 - 00:37:00.974
Well, it's like, I don't know. Like, do all brands have, like, I don't know how big you have to be before you start licensing your stuff out? Like, you know what I mean?
Like, because. So does Kotopashi have an international distributor? That's not a licensee, though, because, like, a license.
Colin True
00:37:01.022 - 00:37:17.134
No, like, they have an agreement with those people to sell their stuff in other countries. Okay. So I don't know how, again, he said they're still investigating it.
But, I mean, what this really does is it's like, you think about, you know, a Wes Allen or Cody, you know, in Cody, Wyoming, at Sunline Sports, or, like, any sort of specialty account that's selling that same jacket.
Justin Housman
00:37:17.182 - 00:37:17.502
Yeah.
Colin True
00:37:17.566 - 00:37:27.354
For 299 bucks or whatever. Or 200 bucks. And it's like, oh, it's 29.99 at cost. It's like, whoa, that's. That's rough. That. That's where I wouldn't even.
Justin Housman
00:37:27.442 - 00:37:35.466
Honestly, I wouldn't even thought about that. It's been more in terms of, like, where we're actually being sold. Like, do we want to maintain our, like, rep as, like, a core brand?
Colin True
00:37:35.618 - 00:37:49.386
And it. Well, it's that as well. But, I mean, just the project. Imagine if you're, you know, you're.
You're rocking the floor, even at rei and somebody's, oh, I saw this jacket at Costco for 30 bucks. It's like, so you're not going to buy it here, is what you're saying. So they got some work to do there. But I do feel free to coated poxy.
Justin Housman
00:37:49.418 - 00:37:49.562
That.
Colin True
00:37:49.586 - 00:37:50.154
That does suck.
Justin Housman
00:37:50.202 - 00:37:50.830
Yeah.
Colin True
00:37:51.370 - 00:37:53.830
We had a return from a guy we haven't heard from a while.
Justin Housman
00:37:53.860 - 00:37:54.818
Our buddy Tacoma.
Colin True
00:37:54.834 - 00:38:27.524
Phil's back. Yeah, he reached out because he was an REI guy. He reached out about our REI Experiences episode.
Phil writes that REI shutting down Experiences is a bigger blow than people realize.
Based on the intensive peer reviewed research I did in my garage, it may be the largest guided outdoor experience and adventure travel company in the nation. And poof, it's gone. Having worked many years in experience, I can say it never made a profit ever. But previous CEOs knew that wasn't the point.
It was a mission. It was mission driven to get more people outdoors who then could coincidentally buy more stuff for some reason. Yes, we did those calculations.
Justin Housman
00:38:27.652 - 00:38:29.760
I suspected as much.
Colin True
00:38:30.220 - 00:38:49.290
It's. I mean, it makes sense. You're selling gear, right? You should buy your gear here.
I know REI is in rough times, but it's a big mistake to cut Experiences. It was in many ways the soul of rei. And now REI is just another retailer. Damn. I think I can say now 20. 25 sucks. Well, I don't.
You know, the jury's still out of 25. Good Lord, Phil, come on, man. It's January 20th.
Justin Housman
00:38:49.358 - 00:39:27.276
20Th. I mean, it's not. Yeah, so, okay, that's interesting. I don't know if you saw, but there was a comment on.
I don't know if it was yours, mine or something that Owen put up about, about this and somebody commented that we're all getting it wrong. They specifically called out my take that, like, it's not about selling boots. You know, we. To people that are going to do the experiences.
They're like, it's about how profit. Like these can be super profitable. Like these, like, basically, like a travel company can be like wildly profitable.
And that's what they were going for. And they just couldn't figure it out. And that's why they shut it down. Which I hadn't thought about. I don't know anything about that. I mean, maybe.
But like, to me, it just.
Colin True
00:39:27.348 - 00:39:30.300
I think both things can be true there. I think it could be both things. Right.
Justin Housman
00:39:30.340 - 00:40:30.830
But it was an interesting take. But so I'm. But like to me, it just.
It makes more sense that it would be like a, hey, we can potentially make money off of this, and we're kind of locking in future customers. I. What's interesting is that, like, I guess I did used to see. I've been thinking about this more since they shut. Like, I.
I would fairly often see, like, an REI van in places I'd be right.
And I didn't realize that they were kind of licensing that out to different guiding companies or employing guiding companies, however the structure worked. But, like, it was pretty common to see.
Like, I'd go ride my bike at China Camp, like, which is a nearby state park, and there'd be, like, REI vans there, and they'd be doing kayaking or something. Like, I just kind of took it for granted and never thought much about it because I never wanted to do it.
But a friend of mine, I think did, did a class through our. Oh, you know, my wife did a. Like an orienteering class through RAI once.
And then a buddy of mine, I think, did like a backcountry survival or like a wilderness course through RAI once. And it is kind of weird. I don't know, maybe some of those are going to stay because of my understanding is some of the classes are staying.
I don't know.
Colin True
00:40:30.870 - 00:40:33.614
Yeah, Owen said that. I think on our episode that some of the classes are going to stay.
Justin Housman
00:40:33.702 - 00:40:49.950
But it is, like, the more I've thought about it, because I've never done any. I've never, like, gone to any kind of school for anything I do outdoors or anything like that, so.
But the more I've thought about, the more I realized, wow, I did used to see those vans, like, every. Everywhere, which, you know, I guess it was a bigger thing than I thought.
Colin True
00:40:50.250 - 00:41:50.572
The whole thing just makes me mad. I just get mad because it's, like, on both. On both fronts. Because, number one, like, I do.
Look, at some point, you have to boil this all down to if it's making money or not. I understand the upside of having something and feeding other parts of your business, but this could not have been a cheap thing to operate.
And at some point, the chasm between profitability and what you're spending must have just gotten too much. Or they're like, fuck this. What do we do? Yeah, I also look at it and be like, Rei, figure it out. You've had, like, 40 years. Like, make it real small.
Make it like, we're gonna do these two trips a year, whatever it is, because you have a unique market opportunity to say, hey, you wanna come to REI to shop for your stuff. We'll offer you things to go do now. I guess maybe that's why the classes are so. I mean maybe that kind of checks that box, but just on every front.
And I think it's kind of a little bit of what almost like Phil's alluding to is like it's just a giant bummer at. At the end of the day because it feels like it should be something that works, you know, and you can kind of. Anyway, I hear you, Phil.
Justin Housman
00:41:50.756 - 00:41:52.412
Good to hear from you, Phil, by the way.
Colin True
00:41:52.516 - 00:43:11.026
Yeah, we missed you, Phil. Next email from Troy. Troy is a. He writes in quite a bit and this is a pretty long email.
But he, he was commenting on when our Bigfoot story, the guys who got lost in. In Oregon and ended up passing away. And he gave some examples of. Of things like Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster.
But then you kind of some things, some actual real life discoveries in the outdoors. Right There's a. Okay, so we discovered like a new species of antelope in the early 1990s.
There is a primitive fish that was thought to have died out 66 million years ago and then caught one in. Yep. Then he caught one in 1938.
And he basically the kind of summation of the email was these discoveries, he writes, are genuinely exciting because they really happened. Animal like animals like these are living proof of the infinitely complex and resilient phenomenon we call life. They are by definition wondrous.
And you know, Troy wrote a. Troy, thank you for your email. It was a wonderful email. You please keep them coming. He writes us. We get a lot of emails from Troy.
They're always insightful. But I loved this take is, you know, obviously we had some fun at the expense of like the alien Bigfoot and ghost people on that. On that episode.
But it's a really thing. I wish we had thought of this. I mean, because they. There is absolute wonder. I mean, why do we go outside all the time?
Why do we care so much to complain about stuff on the show? Because of the wonder of the natural world.
Justin Housman
00:43:11.098 - 00:43:11.426
Yep.
Colin True
00:43:11.458 - 00:43:16.130
And here is science making incredible discoveries. And we're not like freaking out about that.
Justin Housman
00:43:16.170 - 00:43:17.106
No, we're going to go find Bigfoot.
Colin True
00:43:17.138 - 00:43:19.426
We're gonna go. Let's go find Bigfoot.
Justin Housman
00:43:19.538 - 00:45:08.962
Well, I think it's probably safe to say that if you are so. Gosh, I hope I don't offend anybody here, but if you are so convinced in Bigfoot Foot's legitimacy that you're.
That you are willing to do something dangerous enough that you die outdoors trying to find it. You're probably not reading a lot of like up to date. Like you're probably not reading nature and science and things like that.
So maybe you aren't aware that these things are happening. But this is such a good take. So we don't do it anymore. But for like five years, I wrote every issue in Adventure Journal.
I wrote a column called Natural Curiosities. And I got to learn about so much fascinating stuff. And basically the idea was. And I would. I would work with. With Steve Casimiro on the.
Which what topic? But the idea to me was always, if I've heard of this, I'm not going to cover it. Like, I'm only going to cover something I've never heard of before.
And I'm pretty curious and like kind of like a trivia head. So like, I know a lot of random shit and so. But every. Every week it would be something I never heard of or every week, every, every quarter.
And I got to do some fascinating ones. Like the one, the first one that pops into my head is um, one that I talked about yesterday with a buddy of mine on a trail.
And we were as we were riding and we saw some deer and we just started like talking about how some of the work that they've done to. To thin some of the forest around here might affect the deer, blah, blah, blah.
And I was thinking back to a story I wrote about how like there's all these studies now that show that like the. The fear a prey animal feels for predators can actually shape how an ecosystem looks. So like, like if like deer will it's.
Or any kind of grazer or prey animal can, if they have places to hide, if they e of the foliage or whatever. Now they can't hide as well.
Animals like the predators can see them and so maybe they will like leave that alone and so like, and go eat somewhere else or whatever. And like basically as. As the dynamic changes between predator and prey, the actual landscape will change a little bit, which is fascinating.
Colin True
00:45:09.026 - 00:45:09.586
Interesting.
Justin Housman
00:45:09.698 - 00:46:35.994
I did one about how the Tunguska experiment, which is.
Or not experiment, the Tunguska explosion, which was this thing you've probably heard of in like Siberia in like 1908 where like, like, yeah, 80 miles or something. I forget how much of trees were just like flying, flattened and people saw a bright light in the sky and we. Everyone just.
If you've heard of it, you probably. Oh yeah, it was like an asteroid or something. There's no evidence of that. There's no crater. There's no ass. There's no space matter.
There's nothing that you would expect to find from an asteroid.
And one like crazy theory is that a tiny like size of an atom black hole, which I guess are tiny black holes in the universe, flew like, like the Earth just like passed through it and it like that, that level of energy that's contained in a microscopically tiny black hole would cause almost that exact thing to happen where like there would be like a burst of energy and it would flatten stuff, but there'd be no crater and it would have come out the other side of the planet like on the North Atlantic. And it's like 1908. Like there's nobody there. Nobody would have seen it. Just like stuff like that all the time going on.
And it was such a really fun column to write and we just decided it kind of ran its course when we stopped writing it. But ah, man, I read through those a lot. I put them up on my LinkedIn every so often, if you're interested. That's awesome.
But anyway, Troy, you are 100, right? Dude, natural World is an amazing place we find crazy all the time. People don't get it. Hear enough about it.
There's obviously no, no monster in Loch Ness. Obviously. But you know what? There might be some weird giant sturgeon no one's ever seen before.
Colin True
00:46:36.162 - 00:46:36.490
Right.
Justin Housman
00:46:36.530 - 00:46:37.418
That's cooler.
Colin True
00:46:37.514 - 00:46:38.394
Still undiscovered.
Justin Housman
00:46:38.442 - 00:46:39.258
Yes. Yeah.
Colin True
00:46:39.274 - 00:46:41.194
Was it? We know more about outer space than we know about the bottom.
Justin Housman
00:46:41.242 - 00:46:44.630
I want to get a beer with Troy. I like Troy a lot.
Colin True
00:46:45.890 - 00:46:52.150
Although if like, you know, this comes out and like, oh my God, we found Bigfoot. I'm like, oh, we got to court another contest. Another.
Justin Housman
00:46:52.590 - 00:46:55.094
I mean. But you know what though? We would be so excited about it.
Colin True
00:46:55.182 - 00:46:57.046
How pumped will we be? Joy would be pumped.
Justin Housman
00:46:57.078 - 00:47:09.010
That's the best part about if you, if you create a base level of self deprecation where you talk, you make fun of yourself. Anyway, like, I have no issue with being like I was. I'm wrong and I'm an idiot because, you know, I'm already self deprecating. So. So you. You are too.
Colin True
00:47:09.710 - 00:47:12.294
Yeah, well, you got to be. I don't know. We're all a bunch of idiots.
Justin Housman
00:47:12.342 - 00:47:13.414
We don't know what we're talking about.
Colin True
00:47:13.502 - 00:47:14.038
Yeah, what the hell?
Justin Housman
00:47:14.054 - 00:47:18.420
We know we're running a. An outdoor spot podcast.
Colin True
00:47:19.160 - 00:47:29.984
We got an email from a guy named Dave. David. David. It's not producer Dave. I don't think it is. Anyway.
Oh, what if it was that copied and paste that, sir, just to let you know, I just thought you made a correction in our outline. That is not. That was not me.
Justin Housman
00:47:30.072 - 00:47:35.568
Spell my name wrong all the time. I can't let it go. Even in an outline that you and I are going to see once and never again, I got to correct it.
Colin True
00:47:35.704 - 00:48:31.490
Well, I just was. That was a copy. I left it because I want to make sure you saw me spelled your name incorrectly. Thank you very much. David writes man.
And I assume he didn't address it directly to me. I assume he's addressing it at me.
If it weren't for your co hosts, producer Dave and Justin Houseman, which he spelled with a knee, I'd probably give up.
On your podcast from claiming resort skiing isn't really an outdoor sport and disregarding the fact that people can and have had all kinds of exposure related injuries that can only be had outdoors. Kind of had a tough. That may have been also the. The Bigfoot one to putting Birkenstock as an IT brand in the outdoor footwear category.
Because why they can be worn outside would you wear them hiking, paddling and mountain biking? You get it all wrong. Now you're bitching about gravel shoes not being a real category. They're not.
Well, gravel bikes have nearly redefined cycling for a generation of riders. This is the kicker.
Your insecure laugh at the end of nearly every sentence is a tell that maybe you don't believe what you're saying, but damn, man, you don't have to try so hard to have a hot take.
Justin Housman
00:48:32.990 - 00:48:59.104
I mean, hot takes do require effort. David. Okay, I'm just going to say that right now they're well thought out.
You know what's interesting about that is that there's like, like, I mean, first of all, taste is subjective, obviously, but I don't think people realize like I made a little brief comment which you heard. Potent. No, wait. Good lord, I can't handle time. When. When we were talking to Schnitz Bon about about his show coming out.
Colin True
00:48:59.192 - 00:49:01.616
Well, that will be in the past now. That'll be earlier in the episode, so they will.
Justin Housman
00:49:01.688 - 00:49:17.254
Okay, great. So early in the episode I, I talked about how Doug has a great voice for a podcast. And like, I don't.
I honestly, I think like 85% of the success that we have on this podcast is just that you're really good host. Like you have a really good like radio voice.
Colin True
00:49:17.302 - 00:49:18.854
I didn't, I didn't read this email to get you to.
Justin Housman
00:49:18.942 - 00:49:41.284
I know, but like it's true. Like you, like, I can't even fathom this podcast existing without your, like, like kind of enthusiastic, almost like a DJ type voice.
Like, it's, it's super important. So I don't know, I mean, I get it, whatever. I mean, I don't know. Dave's allowed to have his opinion. He obviously likes me, which is all that matters.
But, you know, know, but like, I, I, I just, this wouldn't exist without calling.
Colin True
00:49:41.412 - 00:49:59.108
Thanks, man. Yeah, look, David, I'm sorry.
I guess, I don't know, I feel like anything that you wrote in there, I feel very confident defending any of those points. I'm not going to do that now. But, you know, you're welcome to listen or not listen. It doesn't cost anything for you to do it.
Hopefully you continue to stick in the show.
Justin Housman
00:49:59.164 - 00:50:14.552
Yeah, but also, Dave, like, like, if, if I, you know, everything Colin says is 100% genuine and his laugh is super genuine. And he's like, he, he's, he does this even more in person.
He's more apt to be like, laughing and making jokes and stuff like that in person than he is on the, on the pod. So.
Colin True
00:50:14.656 - 00:50:19.688
Justin really makes me laugh. Guys. It is never forced. Is never forced. Is my favorite thing about working with.
Justin Housman
00:50:19.744 - 00:50:29.020
A lot of people don't realize is I do these. I, I record nude. So. And I have a hilarious body. So it's, it's, it's just, it's just anybody would laugh.
Colin True
00:50:29.840 - 00:50:57.560
Well, I would say to anybody out there listening, we haven't done this a while. Like, leave a review, send an email.
If we hear from you, we can maybe send you some stickers so, you know, appreciate when the, the, like what the feedback from you guys comments on LinkedIn Apple Podcast reviews. Especially if you could leave a review on Apple podcasts or@myrockfightmail.com and we can address your stuff on the show here as well.
And tell you what, Dave, if you keep getting angry at us, I'm just gonna have to invite you on and say, all right, man, you're on the air. Let's hear your laugh. What's your beef?
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:50:58.700 - 00:50:59.840
Let's do it.
Justin Housman
00:51:00.380 - 00:51:36.480
Honestly, maybe it's masochism. I enjoy hearing negative emails almost more than positive ones in some way.
One, it's really good feedback, but two, it's like if you're engaging, I mean, it's, I don't know, I feel like, I feel like if someone gets angry enough to write in, like you've, you, you've engaged with them in a, in a pretty meaningful way. I mean, honestly, that's probably like marketing 101. Like any.
Any, like, attention is good, but, like, sure, it's pretty easy to like a podcast that's about the outdoors with two, like, you know, relatively jovial dudes. If you're already going outdoors, you're probably generally going to like it.
But, like, if we're like, pushing buttons and pissing people off, I'm okay with that.
Colin True
00:51:36.520 - 00:51:56.812
Show shouldn't be for everybody. It shouldn't be. Or we're doing it wrong.
And also, clearly David is a big skiing guy who is very excited about the Will shoes category and potentially finding Bigfoot. All right, time for the party shop. I think I went last. First last time.
Justin Housman
00:51:56.996 - 00:51:57.932
Have I settled on one?
Colin True
00:51:57.956 - 00:51:58.540
I didn't go first.
Justin Housman
00:51:58.580 - 00:52:04.124
I did settle on one. Okay, yeah, I'll go first. And I always feel bad because Colin Rice is out. And it never even occurs to me to do it.
Colin True
00:52:04.132 - 00:52:05.676
Usually you're so good off the dome.
Justin Housman
00:52:05.708 - 00:52:08.588
I have usually pulling them out of my ass, like minutes before.
Colin True
00:52:08.644 - 00:52:10.592
You're good at it, though. I am not good at that.
Justin Housman
00:52:10.696 - 00:54:28.456
So I'm going to pull up. I got to pull it up just so I want to get the date right. Okay.
So some point in the last, I think it was in late December or early January, somebody decided to take a little joyride through Death Valley National Park. Now, it should go without saying that national parks generally don't allow off road travel.
It's possible there's like one or two I don't know about that do. And you know, I'm not talking about dirt roads, but I'm talking about actual like off road driving. Right.
Like, that's not typically a thing in national parks. BLM land, national forest land, 100%. But national parks, as far as I know, generally don't allow that kind of thing.
Maybe I'm wrong, but generally speaking, they don't.
And yeah, some people went joy riding in the Eureka Valley, which is home to some of like the biggest sand dunes in North America in Death Valley National Park. And so, so there's like, basically, I mean, there's obviously Death Valley is very lifeless, generally speaking.
Not necessarily, but it appears that way.
They drove through this, like, I don't know if swales or right word, but like a depression, almost like a bowl in the, in the sand dunes, where of course, any moisture, anything is going to collect. So at the bottom there's all these endangered plants that are like, barely clinging to life anyway. And these people just drove right through them.
Like, I'm looking at the pictures right now. You just see, you just see trap, you see footprints.
And then you see like off road tires, tire tracks right through these, right through these plants.
And I guarantee they also drove over cryptobiotic soil, which another thing I learned about when writing Natural Curiosity column, which is like so crucially important to the desert ecosystem. And it takes hundreds of years to grow back, especially in places arid as Death Valley. I just don't know what is wrong with people.
I mean like, just because you have an off roader or a side by side, you don't get to drive it wherever you want. I mean, it's insane to me. And like I.
One of the coolest things I've seen in like any like off road brand or anything do was when I went and drove the new Broncos right when they first came out with Ford.
And the first thing before they even let us in the car was they give a full, full lecture about how you have to be really sensitive about where you drive.
Not only because you should in theory carry about care about the places that you're going, but also because the first way, the easiest way to get us kicked out of places is doing like this.
Colin True
00:54:28.528 - 00:54:29.144
Right? Right.
Justin Housman
00:54:29.232 - 00:55:14.264
And so obviously driving wasn't allowed there anyway. But I mean, just because driving is allowed doesn't mean there's not gonna be sensitive stuff.
BLM land is full of like very sensitive areas and stuff like that. So just like be, just pay pay attention. Like when I'm off, when I'm off roading, you know, like I'm usually on a dirt track, right.
And like if I have to turn around, I'm. I'm not gonna turn around in a place where there's like sparse vegetation. I'm gonna drive over the, the only stuff that's out there.
It's just like, it's just mind numbing to me that people do do this. I realize sand dunes probably look lifeless. It probably looks like scrub brush.
But I mean, just because it, just because he doesn't look like anything to you doesn't mean it's not super important. And it's just a bad look. It makes me look bad as someone who has like off road tires on my truck. So it drives me nuts. Stop doing that.
Colin True
00:55:14.432 - 00:55:22.940
Right?
This is like when you hear about the people like you know, knocking over like the hoodoos and like, you know, the stuff like in Utah just like, you know, going to Goblin State park or whatever and be like, let's just knock over rocks.
Justin Housman
00:55:23.840 - 00:55:34.800
It's one thing to like pick up sticks or firewood in forest or whatever where there's like tons of it. Around, but the desert, there's like, if you see a plant, it's like, it's a miracle it's there at all, you know?
Colin True
00:55:35.100 - 00:55:35.604
Right.
Justin Housman
00:55:35.692 - 00:55:50.452
So, yeah, just a huge, huge, huge bummer especially. Although you can kind of probably imagine who these people voted for.
But, like, especially going into this new administration where they're probably going to do everything they can to national parks over, you know, it's like, let's not, let's not lead in. Let's not like, start down this road already.
Colin True
00:55:50.636 - 00:57:05.374
Listen to Justin Houseman, everybody. He knows what he's talking about. So. All right, my parting shot.
So if you go back to the Rock Fight archives, you'll find a pod I did about the silliness of Cotton kills.
Justin and I have talked a ton on the show about wearing pretty much whatever you want for most activities outside that, like, you know, we appreciate a lot of the stuff that we have to wear or that we can wear or that has been invented to wear for these activities, but that also use a little common sense with, you know, you can kind of wear what you want most of the time. And so from my parting shot today, I want to take that mindset a bit further because I, as the, as I.
In a previous newsletter, I appointed myself the czar of the outdoors because I, I think that we need a little bit of a guiding principle here for, like, some of the rules that we follow in the outdoors.
So I'm implementing a rule that all outdoor gear, apparel and footwear brands, employees at those brands for two weeks every year, they must go out and do their favorite activities in the most rudimentary stuff. I thought of this yesterday because I had an insane day. It was a ton of stuff on my plate. And I had a little window in the afternoon.
Afternoon, right. I could get outside. So I didn't, you know, think about what I was wearing.
And I just threw on some old ultra long peak Lone Peaks I had kicking around. I grabbed my dog and I went out on a hike. And I was up until I was about halfway through it and I looked down.
I'm like, I'm wearing like a cotton T shirt with a cotton sweatshirt. Like a full on, like, you know, like logoed sweatshirt.
Justin Housman
00:57:05.422 - 00:57:05.790
Yeah.
Colin True
00:57:05.870 - 00:57:52.706
That, you know, and my shoes were a really old pair with like kind of holes on the side and like no outsole left. And guess what? I was fine. And I had to smoke. I'm like, you know, I think. And it's okay. I would have.
There's definitely hikes I would go on where I would not dress that way.
But when you work for an outdoor brand, at least my experience is that you get so wound up in the stuff that your brand makes that you start to believe all of the bullshit that you can't go outside without being adorned with a certain level of performance. And then you go to your next job at another brand. You kind of bring that mindset with you.
So two weeks every year, you got to head out and go for a hike and. Or run in jorts and cotton T shirts. You got to go skiing in jeans and a 1990s Starter jacket.
Maybe bike some single track and a pair of slip on vans and a flannel. That's how Justin does it all the time. You gotta go surfing old school in a wool sweater. So they used to wear before. Before wetsuits.
Justin Housman
00:57:52.738 - 00:57:53.858
I don't recommend that.
Colin True
00:57:53.994 - 00:58:16.590
I don't either, actually, but. But anyway, bottom line is just, I want you to be reminded that like a lot of what we talk about when it comes to outdoor stuff is kind of bullshit.
And.
And that you, while it is nice and a lot of the stuff we wear and make and, and wear outside, it makes us feel pretty good and like it actually really is a good thing. But you really everything most days. So that's my parting shot.
Justin Housman
00:58:16.670 - 00:59:21.680
I. Yesterday I so shocked, I realized the party shot, we're supposed to leave it at this.
But yes, yesterday I was so shocked to discover a new part of my little town that I hadn't been to before. It's like a street. I hadn't driven up. I knew it went really high up in the hill, but didn't really know where it petered out.
And I was just like, it was a beautiful afternoon. I'm like, you know what? Like the girl. The girls were gone. I had some free time. So I'm just gonna cruise up here and see what's up here.
And then I got up there and realized, oh, this is where the trailer trailhead to this mountain bike trail I've heard of but didn't know where it was is I saw like a sign. I'm like, oh, I'm not. I don't really feel like saying what it's called. But I was like, oh, that's where that is. Okay, cool.
And then like to the, just to the west of it, this like, gorgeous overlook that like, looks over like the redwoods and Mount Tamalpais and like this like, valley that connects like my town to the next valley over. It's just amazing, beautiful, beautiful place.
And like there are people sitting at the top, like, drinking a glass of wine, like a couple with their dog. I was like, this is. That's absolutely epic. But. But I. To get to that spot, I had to hike a decent amount up. Like, you know, it's just like.
I just like, had like, jeans and like, Blundstones or whatever. And it was just like, as I get halfway up, there's like, people pat.
Like, I'm passing people that have like, trekking poles and like the full on Portlandia. Get the gear, you know? You know that skill, right?
Colin True
00:59:21.720 - 00:59:22.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Justin Housman
00:59:23.960 - 00:59:30.140
And like, when I saw the trekking poles, I'm like, oh, that's cool. Like, you know, senior citizens making up. It was a burly. No, they're like 25. Just.
Doug Schnitzpahn
00:59:30.760 - 00:59:31.120
Which.
Justin Housman
00:59:31.160 - 00:59:45.052
Whatever. I do that sometimes. But it was. But anyway, it's. And I've. And like, the door's unlocked in my truck. My phone's like, I'm just like going for.
And I ended up going for like a two mile hike just because it was gorgeous when I got up there anyway. So. Yeah, you don't reach for the stuff.
Colin True
00:59:45.156 - 01:00:30.204
We all have to do. When you kind of find it, you got to realize the, like, go get the stuff and you. And you kind of want to wear the stuff.
That kind of like identifies you as like, I'm a person who knows what I'm doing in the outdoors. And then after you do a few sort of, you know, you see.
So the couple you see, I don't know, maybe they're preparing for a backpacking trip or maybe this is what they. They thought that they needed for that hike.
But then eventually they'll end up in like, the Sierra or the Cascades or the Rockies and go on something that, like, some is real, you know, in terms of, like, what they need. And then they'll come home to Marin and be like, ah, we could probably just go up there in our flip flops and be okay.
You know, like, it's just kind of. It's part of the process for sure.
But I do think when you work at a brand, it does sort of brainwash you to a certain degree about, like, what you're supposed to have, because you also want to wear the stuff that your brand makes, and you're kind of like, you know, just spewing the dogma that the brand's teaching you. Right? Right. So.
Justin Housman
01:00:30.292 - 01:00:31.532
Yep. Yep, that's right.
Colin True
01:00:31.556 - 01:01:06.160
Tw Two weeks a year, people. You gotta get out there. All right, man, we can wrap it up there. We have what's going on this week we had. Okay, so it's Wednesday, Friday.
Come back for Andrea Kelly for make +equal. Go listen to open container. Listen to our other episodes this week. Go check out if. Well, you missed the newsletter.
So go subscribe for the newsletter for next week. And I guess that's the way I'm going on at Rock Fight.
The Rock Fight is a production of Rock Fight LLC for Justin Hausman and our guest today, Doug Schnitzbahn. I'm Colin True. Thanks for listening. What do we.
Justin Housman
01:01:06.200 - 01:01:06.560
What do.
Colin True
01:01:06.600 - 01:01:07.968
What do we do now? Is this the.
Justin Housman
01:01:08.024 - 01:01:10.368
This is where we have a little Krista Makes section?
Colin True
01:01:10.464 - 01:01:12.288
Oh, Krista Makes is back.
Justin Housman
01:01:12.344 - 01:01:12.912
Yeah.
Colin True
01:01:13.056 - 01:01:14.080
Come on. He's always here.
Justin Housman
01:01:14.120 - 01:01:14.592
He's always here.
Colin True
01:01:14.616 - 01:01:16.512
Man Lives in this little booth in my garage.
Justin Housman
01:01:16.576 - 01:01:17.120
Right behind you, right?
Colin True
01:01:17.160 - 01:01:23.160
Plays a song. Yeah. Here's the Rock Fight fight song. We'll see you next time. Rock Fighters Peace.
Chris DeMakes
01:01:23.240 - 01:02:19.160
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Rock fight welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth Slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree we talk about human powered outdoor activities and big bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture, music, the latest movie reviews Ideas that aim for the head this is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rock fight.
Rock fight Rock fight Welcome to the rock flight Rock fight Rock flight welcome to the rock flight Rock flight Rock fight Ride Rock fight, Rock fight? Welcome to the rock fight Rock fight Rock fight.
Justin Housman
01:02:21.540 - 01:02:23.940
Rock fight.