Today on THE ROCK FIGHT (an outdoor podcast that aims for the head) Colin opens the show by commenting on a quote from the CEO of a major outdoor retailer that a "notable shift in consumer behavior is on the horizon".
Then he and Producer Dave go through some of the more notable listener feedback we have received regarding brand specific secondhand sites and 'upcycling' as solutions to sustainability and circularity initiatives.
The close the show with their parting shots. Dave offering his usual book recommendation and Colin passionately responding to Lululemon's assertion that many are experiencing 'wellness burnout'.
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Episode Transcript
Colin (00:01):
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True. It's Monday and we're here with your weekly dose of outdoor industry commentary. But before we get to that, a few housekeeping items. Please follow and rate the rock fight wherever you're listening on any podcast app, follow means, subscribe, so you're subscribing to the show, which is what you want anyway, so go ahead, subscribe to the show and leave us at five star rating. If you like the rock fight, you're definitely going to like Gear and Beer, which is the latest podcast on the Rock Fight Podcast network. Check it out on its own podcast feed. It's called Gear and Beer so you can find that on the app you're using right now. And lastly, we want hear from you.
(00:42):
Send us your feedback by sending an email to my rock fight@gmail.com. Hit us up on the socials where we can be found as Rock Fight Co. And alright, let's start the show. Welcome, fight, fight, fight. Hey, real quick before we get to our lead story, part of the Rock Fight Extended Family is the team at Darby Communications in Asheville, North Carolina who are having a, let's say a rough weekend to say the least. So if you can spare a few bucks for hurricane relief for those impacted by Hurricane Helene, is it Helene or Helen? I'm assuming it's Helene in the southeast. Check out fema.gov.
Producer Dave (01:16):
I prefer Hela
Colin (01:19):
For Hurricane Thor's brother had to fema.gov for places to donate or to volunteer your time if you can. That link is in the show notes if you want to have easy access to help out. So thank you for doing that and best of luck and we were thinking about all the people down in the southeast. Okay, so for our first story today, I wish I could take some credit for discovering this on my own, but it was a listener that would like to remain anonymous that has reached out to point out a quote and a piece that was published last week by the Daily. So last Monday, the Daily ran a transcribed conversation with Andrew Barone, Derek Sigler, and I believe it's pronounced Birdie Pui from Rosenthal and Rosenthal, which is a finance and factoring firm to get their thoughts on the current outdoor retail and brand landscape.
(02:06):
And the conversation is it's largely on par with most conversations for the outdoor industry these days. Things like struggling at retail inventory concerns due to PFAS, consumers dealing with less disposable income, all of those kind of typical talking points. But if you read to the end, there is one point that stuck out made by Derek Sigler and this is what that anonymous listener pointed out. And then Derek Sigler said, and I'm quoting here from the article, one of our clients recently met with the CEO of a major outdoor retailer and reported that the CEO sense, a notable shift in consumer behavior on the horizon. He noted that consumers are now more price conscious than ever before and much more inclined to pursue bargain or discounted products even at the risk of sacrificing quality in this tough environment. Customers appear to be willing to compromise on quality in exchange for lower prices.
(02:58):
So I read that and I immediately think, well, let's let the speculation begin with who that major outdoor retailer could possibly be, knowing that what we know about the current outdoor retail landscape and who is in charge of those retailers. I don't think it's a stretch to say that Sigler is talking about REI here, but even if that is not the case, I kind of find this quote scary for whoever that retailer is because any leader of a major outdoor retailer, their words who believes in believe a shift in behavior is on the horizon or that outdoor consumers are more inclined to seek out cheap products. I don't think they really understand the outdoor marketplace. I mean, does cheap and value have a growing place in our industry? Of course it does. We have more people going outside, most of whom are considered not core.
(03:47):
So there is an increase in opportunity for value products. We also have the ever expanding opportunity for retailers like Sierra to blow out the obscene quantity of excess our industry produces. But even those outdoor newbies will learn over time that if you stick with this stuff, that value exists in outdoor stuff that is reliable and long lasting. I mean, Patagonia became known as Patagucci. Yes, it was expensive, but it was expensive because it built a reputation for making incredibly well-made and long lasting products. So if you're that CEO running a major outdoor retailer and you're planning a pivot to cheap shit because you think you can increase your customer base and capture some percentage of a larger adjustable market, well good luck. It may work out financially, but in the process you're going to sacrifice legitimacy that you may currently have with current outdoor consumers as well as future outdoor consumers. So Dave, I'm sure you have some thoughts here. Let's bring you in. What do you think about this?
Producer Dave (04:44):
What do I think about this? Well, the description of that future customer or consumer being focused on price sounds a lot like descriptions of yesterday's consumer who was focused on value and price, which maybe even tomorrow's consumer, which come to think of it sounds like today's consumer being focused. Yeah, sounds like a consumer, right? Exactly. Exactly. It's one of those predictions, it's hard to get wrong, right? It's like yes, price will be. I've also found inventory is a big determiner of whether you sell something if it's not on the shelf. Surveys have found that we do not sell it. It's impressive. Is that what happens? It is.
Colin (05:22):
You can't sell an idea.
Producer Dave (05:24):
So I guess if I'm taking the outdoor industry as a whole, I would actually assert as much as we talk about the premiumization of the industry over time, which it certainly has, and you brought up Patagonia to that value, and I'll even, let's call it cheapskate has been a part of this industry also since the beginning. I mean, let's face it, some of our early founders were based in the whole counterculture movement, the whole back to land off the grid groups, no accident that most of our most enduring brands were started in the late sixties, early seventies in the west coast of the United States from San Francisco to Portland to Seattle. That is not an accident. They line up with that kind of philosophy and ethos that was going on at that time. And I think the spirit of people who wanted to take that on and go and explore certainly lines up with that sensibility.
(06:24):
So I'm not sure it's a new sensibility at all. And I think your point, the danger is are we reading those tea leaves to as a license to make more cheap stuff versus looking at value as more than price? And I think that's what I see when I see longer term or current state surveys of what consumers are looking for, especially consumers in our space. It's not just the price, but it is the value associated to that item. Is it made with the values that I agree with? Is it durable and resalable? Can I put it on Depop or can I thrift it? Those kind of choices I think are even more important than the ultimate price itself because they are related.
Colin (07:08):
Yeah, I look at this as this is outdoor retail, CEO. Kind of going off script on the record, I would think if an analyst is calling you getting your thoughts on what's going to happen with your business as an outdoor retailer and you're like, ah man, we think the shift is coming, that everyone's going to start buying cheaper stuff. To me just signaling you're already well down the road of how do we plan for that? How do we get cheaper so that more people will shop at our shops?
Producer Dave (07:36):
And if you look at adjacent markets and just kind of this macro, super macro, I mean look, the luxury market has been down over the last year. I mean it's still projected to grow over time, but it has definitely, definitely seen declines. And so you could extrapolate from that, oh, people aren't paying for ungodly margined items. You could also like what Nike's going through. I think there has been a dearth of storytelling and brand innovation discussions that giving people something to believe in and be excited about. And I think performance marketing is a part of that. When everything's click-based and whether I'm getting the pixels to move in the right way at the right time, you're going to lose some of the time that it takes the patience that it takes to brand build and to bring consumers into your camp so that they are supporters, not just needers in terms of what you
Colin (08:31):
Have. Honestly, let's unfairly play this out. Let's say that it's REI, right? Let's say we're talking about REI and that the CEO is planning to go the cheaper route with things. So that's not going to be them saying to Patagonia the North Face, anybody else like, Hey, make cheaper stuff. For me, it would have to be more through expansion of like, we're going to carry cheaper in our stores. So it's like instead of going to Walmart, you can just come to REI. We have the same cheap stuff they have there and we also have the more expensive stuff. I would assume that's what it's going to do. I look at this as just then you are just setting up for even more controversy within the core community of the outdoor space and not going to want to shop at your shops anymore. I don't know. I think this kind of then questions your legitimacy and authenticity with the true outdoor consumer. Does that make sense?
Producer Dave (09:20):
Yeah. I'm cynical in the idea that I think what we're going to see is them making the same cheap stuff and selling it at the same high price that's not, they're going to take margin away all of a sudden, right?
Colin (09:34):
Yeah. But they want attract the consumer who is choosing to spend less. That seems to be what's their, what is it? What's the quote? The notable shift in consumer behavior that they're more price conscious and they want to address that seemingly so it's not going to say we're going to carry the same folks that Walmart is, but they're just going to de content. Probably the REI brand was what again, this is REI we have, which it's not RE,
Producer Dave (09:59):
Which would be a sizable feed call. If you could continue to de content that, I mean soon you're going to get nothing but just a little packet of buttons and say, here's your shirt.
Colin (10:11):
We created the packaging without the product.
Producer Dave (10:13):
That's right.
Colin (10:13):
Yes,
Producer Dave (10:14):
Yes, it is brilliant. It's recycled paper, it's soy-based inks and there's nothing inside.
Colin (10:20):
See, what would be in here would be a tent, but we don't have the tent, we just have the cardboard wrapper that goes around the tent.
Producer Dave (10:28):
Have you considered virtual reality?
Colin (10:31):
Well, this is, again, it's all speculation, but I thought that was definitely a notable quote in a article about what's happening in the space from, again, people who are evaluating the category.
Producer Dave (10:41):
Look, I think going forward, we don't have to worry the dirt bags and the GOP core, they will continue to share the trail. There is a place for everybody here, and if that's part of that growing, it's what's going to happen.
Colin (10:56):
Apparently you haven't heard Dave GQ magazine last week said that Go core is dead. So
Producer Dave (11:01):
Now you
Colin (11:02):
Are showing your age, frankly. Right,
Producer Dave (11:06):
Right. GQ magazine showing my ages. I got you right. I'm there.
Colin (11:15):
I did reach out to the journalist of that magazine to see if he hasn't gotten back to me on LinkedIn. He'd be like, Hey man, saw your article. I'd love to have you come on the show about go goad
Producer Dave (11:22):
Colin, if you do refer back to our early work of layers, the rise of dressing down. You will note that Dr. Rachel Gross did speak of this trend going back into the 18th century in terms of dressing this part and the money that it takes to do that and how it coexists right alongside that authentic doers of the thing. And so I think that's what we're seeing now too.
Colin (11:49):
I think that's when the elitist white New York City socialites were finding native women is say, Hey, do you have those go core outfits that I can wear for my Wyoming vacation? That skin was the go
Producer Dave (11:59):
Core of its day
Colin (12:01):
And described as such. I
Producer Dave (12:02):
Believe that's right. That's exactly right,
Colin (12:05):
Man. I'm heading out west. I got to get get you some Go core for my month long journey to Wyoming
Producer Dave (12:13):
Territory, right Before I get swindled out of all of my gold lease documents,
Colin (12:20):
When I get to Deadwood, I got to fit in. That's right. That's right. Well, we'll keep, I think whether it's RAA or not, we'll keep an eye on what's happening out there. Interesting development here. Well, let's move on because right now it's time, time for our weekly segment to make sure you're getting more out of the outdoors. It's time for more with Themore. So let's talk about innovation. And innovation isn't just new ways of doing things. The value of innovation is rooted in function and the need that function fulfills. And speaking of Phil, not like my buddy Phil, like Phil inside your jacket, Phil, innovation and function
Producer Dave (13:02):
Is that Phil McCree know?
Colin (13:03):
Yes, exactly
Producer Dave (13:04):
Right. Yes.
Colin (13:05):
He wears a lot of thermo jackets I've wear,
Producer Dave (13:07):
I see.
Colin (13:08):
Hey, listen up, apparel, designers and developers. If you're not working with Themore, you're missing out on all of the above because if you want to add value, innovation and function, you work with an ingredient brand like Themore with products built to have a high warmth to weight ratio manufactured responsibly and a brand legacy that carries an authenticity that can be trusted. Themore is the partner you need for your next apparel collaboration because whether it's making amazing new garments or staying warm and safe out on the trail, you can do more with Themore. Alright, so for our main event today, last week on the show we talked about the growing trend of outdoor brands to launch their own online secondhand shops or commerce stores as well as efforts by brands like Code Epoxy to upcycle using goods and leftover fabrics into new products. Those topics got a huge response from the Rock Fight Army.
(14:01):
Thank you all very much for who reached out. So we're going to do a little bit of a commerce mailbag and first up is a friend of the show Drew Simmons, who called me out on LinkedIn as not being a fan of our take that commerce and efforts to upcycle are largely losing efforts when the root of the problem lies in how we make stuff to begin with. And I appreciate Drew's point of view for a couple of reasons. For one, it's a reminder of why the rock fight exists in the first place because our industry is often way too nice and we need to have a forum to disagree with each other in productive ways. So thank you Drew for that. But secondly, to Drew's larger point that I'm coming down on brands or I was coming down on brands who are making attempts to do better and that it's kind of shitty of me to be critical of that maybe has a point because there are plenty of brands out there that aren't doing jack shit to improve their standing when it comes to sustainability and circularity.
(14:50):
Now my take on this isn't to look at an individual point a finger and say, how dare you not do more and then celebrate maybe those who are doing something. But I'd rather point a finger at the industry at large and say, is this the best you got? And I think that was kind of the root of the conversation that Dave and I had last week because for every well-intentioned brand who thinks they're making a meaningful difference, there'll be someone who says, oh, that's all we have to do. Oh, sweet, that's great. That's the bar. We can clear that bar. So I don't want us to get complacent with band-aids when there's just more to be done. And that was the larger point of the conversation last week, but I thought Drew Rose raised some fair points, so I wanted to make sure we addressed it here today. Dave, did you have any thoughts on Drew's points or at least the call out that doing something is better than doing nothing?
Producer Dave (15:36):
Well, yeah, I think what he's just saying is you need to lay off the reused and repurposed pioneers there, Colin. I think your hate and your anger is misplaced.
Colin (15:48):
It's flowing through me.
Producer Dave (15:49):
It is like the dark side that you are. But really I think our point was that this is a huge intractable problem and a holistic approach. Again, with the participation of brands, consumers, and manufacturers and government are really the only things that are going to meaningfully change this. And at the end of the day, those efforts, while visible and important, are still small and a little bit performative. And look, they are coming and they will be sizable businesses for sure, but right now it just kind of fits in. Some of that is you do what you can, is it low hanging fruit, things like that. But we are just pointing out and kind of nudging us towards the tough decisions that are coming up that have to be made by brands. Look, they have to make less stuff and they're going to have to make it better and they're going to have to make it closer to home if we want this to work.
(16:46):
I think that consumers are going to have to understand that things are going to cost more and that they're going to have maybe less choice than 150 items of the same thing. Things like that. Manufacturers are going to have to make things with different chemistries, they're going to have to make them more sustainable and that those ingredients are going to cost more and the brands are going to have to take that on and figure out how they're going to make it work within their business model. Because look, innovation and invention is expensive. There's just no way around it. And then finally, the government is going to have to create a fair marketplace with the right incentives for consumers, for brands, for manufacturers to make the right choice. And without that we are just shuffling decks. Nope, without this we're just shuffle deck chairs on this massively named shipped Leo DiCaprio or something like
Colin (17:42):
That. No, I think you're right. And it is probably from a positive standpoint, a more optimistic standpoint. Yeah, Drew's right. Hey man, it's good to see brands doing stuff that they weren't doing before. I tend to be a little more cynical on this stuff. Seen the brands who just sort ape what other people are doing with no really good intentions. Okay, great. That's the only bar we have to clear and it just sort of delays the actual real solutions that hopefully will come. But that actually is a great segue, everything you just said into the second email I want to reference, which is from James in Seattle, who kind of honestly validates Drew's point of view in a roundabout kind of way. So James is an attorney and he writes, and again I'm quoting from his email, I enjoyed the discussion of brand-led secondhand market proliferation in the last episode.
(18:24):
I wanted to add another thing to consider. Regulations may begin to incentivize these kinds of trends going forward. Check out SB 7 0 7 in California. It's a textile stewardship bill sitting on the governor's desk. It's a bit complicated, but at a basic level, an entity known as a pro will collect fees for the amount of textile products that brands put to market in California to deal with textile waste. Those fees will be modulated to account for a number of practices that decrease impacts on the environment. One mandated factor to consider is whether a brand has its own collection and resale market. Other factors include repairability, recyclability and more. So if this law is signed, and as of now it hasn't, California will basically incentivize the commerce products we spoke about on last week's show, which I mean it sounds much more in depth to that, but I think that's ultimately what James is pointing to.
(19:20):
So I'm kind of conflicted by this. I think there's good here to the point of the optimistic cynical point of view that Drew and I and you are kind of bringing to the table. But except for what it means when we get to the repairability, excuse me, to the recyclability of this, it doesn't really do a lot to address the long-term problem and it could in fact delay those long-term solutions from coming to fruition if everybody again just kind of says, oh, this is the only bar we have to clear in order to be compliant. What do you think, Dan?
Producer Dave (19:52):
Right. Well I think, again, going back to the holistic approach, this is the government stool of this or leg of this stool, and it's an incredibly important piece. This is all part of what they call extended producer responsibility legislations. EPR is, its kind of nomenclature here and it's really about incentivizing producers to be responsible for their end of life management. I mean, that's what this is. Okay. And so one of the first things that could be done with that is the release and repair aspect of it. So these pro groups are producer, whether they're responsibility organizations, look, the Democrats have never had a government program that didn't have some kind of new body or board to look after it. I mean it's part of the deal, but that's what he's talking about. The pro is, right, this group that helps manage it. And that's what I mean by creating a marketplace.
(20:49):
So this is a longer term solution for this specific action because it's setting up an even playing field in terms of how brands are going to manage this and how that's going to be done as we'll. Talk to some people later on in the coming weeks of folks that manage some of these third parties that help brands do all of this, the collection, the sorting and the thing that's just these huge pieces of it that have to be figured out. And so I think this is a net positive in a big way. The modulated fees. Yeah, look, really what this is just is another tax code to pencil around. So they're going to use their resale program as a means to the, like you said, it's a box to check to get that. Yeah, I get that too. You're going to have to have 'em going to be a required piece.
Colin (21:37):
But if you're incentivized on the back end that says nothing on the front end, you're still free and clear to make all the stuff you want and know that you can collect a credit on the backend and send the rest of the Sierra.
Producer Dave (21:47):
So here's the thing. This is just one piece of these EPRs, and this is California's approach right now. These types of things are working their way through. Oregon is starting to bring this on. New York is kind of ahead of this and their fashion sustainability and social accountability act. And that is really, that's more bigger business, a hundred million dollar kind of and 50% of their supply chains. But they have, that's more of a transparency, having to be more transparent about what they're doing. But if, yeah,
Colin (22:22):
That's on scope three aviation, that's
Producer Dave (22:23):
Like that, right? But if you look at France and Sweden and the eu,
Colin (22:27):
That's where the real work
Producer Dave (22:27):
Getting done some, they're creating real economic penalties, if you will for overproduction France, especially in their, what is it? Anti waste law for circular economy. And Sweden, I really like Sweden's approach. They're also looking at both the brand and the consumer side trying to incentivize both. It's a recycling initiative that it puts money to the collection and processing part, but it's also incentivizing consumers to repair rather than discard. See, and it's taking it from both sides like that. But look, I think all of these are going to have little places in and as they come online and we start to work with them, are they going to be kind of unwieldy and horsey? Yes, they will. They'll always will be. We haven't figured out really how all this works with small business, which is really where the majority of what we're talking about anyway. Most of the waste is coming from the big, but how do they deal with these issues? Some of these could be so onerous as to prevent businesses from even being able to be successful, but it is going to be a new normal. But a lot of that has to be worked out. And like I said, implementation is always, that's where the devil is in those details. But we got to
Colin (23:39):
Start Well, and if this is a step in the right direction, I am all for it largely speaking. Because if you go back, and this is a bit of data information when Ken Pucker was on the show back in the beginning of 2023, but you talk about the New York Fashion Act, which you referenced, and at the time when Ken was on the show, which is all about disclosure and what are your scope three emissions and all those kinds of things. There was one, no, was it zero? It was either zero or one outdoor brand who was actually supporting that.
(24:04):
So flying directly, and this is why I'm cynical, a lot of things, it's like here's something that can legitimately be good for the earth in terms of how we're making apparel and only one or potentially zero outdoor brands or supporting. Now that might be higher. Now, like I said, it's stated information, but so if this is the step one to get to there, and especially with what we learned from the legislation that has passed over in Europe on top of it all, great. But this is cool to see how this all shakes out. And we also heard from Aaron INE at Gear Trade. He wrote back in, and Aaron's been on the show before, and Peter Whitcomb, who is at TSUs Solutions, both of those guys are, we want to bring on the show in the next few weeks or so for individual conversations. And then later this week we'll be talking to Baruch Zare, who's from out and back. So we want to keep this conversation going because this does trickle down all the way from the biggest of the big to the independent outdoor retailers who are going to be, what does this mean for everybody? What are the stories that are being told? How does this stuff get used? What stories do you want to tell to your consumers? This is kind of the issue of the day, if you will.
Producer Dave (25:09):
It is, and again, I think it's just really important to understand there is no silver rollout to all of this and if we pull out individual initiatives by themselves, they seem kind of small or misguided in that, but it's really, when you put 'em all together is where you start to see kind of this overall change. So I think we just, again, we're behind the eight ball. We could have been doing this a while ago, but we need everybody pfa, S-P-F-A-S. That's right, that's right.
Colin (25:41):
Yeah. I mean the last thing I had in here was like, look, I guess, and this is probably back to Drew's point, I'd being a little more optimistic. I mean it wasn't that long ago where the dominant message around sustainability, sustainability was, oh boy, we have some recycled content and our stuff. And that was what we pointed to and celebrated every time it happened. And now that is the norm and here are hopefully the evolution of the conversation. I just was hoping it would go a little faster.
Producer Dave (26:06):
Right, right. Well when it does go faster, we'll be here to talk about it in slow painstaking detail.
Colin (26:15):
Breaking news on the rock fight. Let's go.
Producer Dave (26:16):
That's right, that's right.
Colin (26:20):
Alright, we'll take one more quick break and then we'll get to our parting shots. This episode of the Rock Fight is brought to you by the great Malden Outdoors and outdoor enablement campaign in the city of Malden, Massachusetts. And the brains behind this initiative, Darren Josie. He's here with me right now. Darren, first of all, what is an outdoor enablement campaign?
Darren Josey (26:40):
An outdoor enablement campaign provides four things, advertising, resources, programming and youth development. These are the four things that I believe are really important to getting more people outside.
Colin (26:50):
So why is this campaign important to DEI efforts in the outdoor industry?
Darren Josey (26:54):
We have to start by getting more people outside and that can start their journey from one, becoming someone who just enjoys outdoor recreation as a lifestyle, but two, a path for a job. No one told me that going outside and rock climbing could lead to a job one day or fishing or bike riding. Didn't know that was a thing until I got into the industry and I want to change that and start that journey a lot earlier for way more people in our society.
Colin (27:21):
Hey man. And lastly, how can outdoor brands and retailers help or participate?
Darren Josey (27:24):
Go to the great malden outdoors.com, click on the contact button and reach out. We are always looking for donations for gear, funds and expertise. You can lend your existing staff to lead an online course. Or if you're in the New England area, come on down and lead a class. We're looking for more programming.
Colin (27:42):
Head to the great malden outdoors.com and click contact to build a partnership today. Alright, it's time for our parting shots. It's time to end.
Chris DeMakes (27:52):
It's time to leave this place, that time forgot. Let's take our rock and head on home. It's tough.
Producer Dave (28:10):
Alright, Dave, you have the floor. What's your party shot? My party shot, Colin, I'm back to books this week and I'm trying to kind of hit the classics for those that maybe haven't seen or heard them or just haven't know about 'em, haven't taken the time to dive in, but this is one of my all time favorites. It's Cadillac Desert by Mark Reisner, Mike Ner. It's all the way back in the eighties. I can't believe it's that long ago, but it's been updated. And I guess if you were to call something a seminal work, this would be it in terms of it outlines the water management systems in the American West. It highlights the environment, the political, the consequences of these large scale irrigations, the DAMing projects. It discusses how we got here, the dams and canals and the fights over who owns 'em, the what is it, the creation of the reclamation board across the country, and the incredible power that they had in the mid-century.
(29:10):
Again, a time when science and technology were being seen as our saviors and really contributed to the overbuilding of dams and the consequences, the environmental consequences that we're still living with today. And just the mindset. And it's amazing that I'm pumped up about a water policy book, but it really, it weaves incredible stories of how the city of LA formed, how the Colorado got to be used and portioned. Like I said, it's got some incredible personalities and figures that dominated the bureaucracy at that time and we're talking billions of dollars that flowed through states. It was a nationwide thing. It's not just a west, the West gets the focus. It's kind of the Chinatown. The idea of Chinatown was obviously before that, but how can you make kind this topic kind of sexy and t with conflict and interest and just, it's really well done. I really recommend it Highly. Cadillac Desert, I think again, I think it's one of those that you just have to have on your shelf in terms of explaining where we are today and why. So big fan Cadillac Desert. There's also a P Bs. There's also a PBS documentary about it that was done in the nineties. If you prefer that
Colin (30:28):
Jeff Bezos, we know you're a listener, you can sponsor Dave's specs book corner. That's right during the party shot every week.
Producer Dave (30:34):
Colin Colin, I have to say I'm from Portland. There's only Powells.
Colin (30:41):
Oh yeah, that'd be a great sponsor. Powells, come on board for Dave's book corner. There you go. And join the party shot. There you go. My party shot was, news came out this week about Lululemon and it's fourth annual global wellbeing report. And in there the brand found that there is a counterproductive cycle where the relentless pursuit of wellbeing is making us less well and experiencing what the report dubs as wellbeing burnout. And I heard another podcast talking about this and of course the host of that show where started talking about the opportunity for Lululemon to lean into that messaging and utilize this and to pivot into a new type of marketing. I just say, fuck that. This is just like, I can't believe that we're going to start branding burnout in the outdoor space and then we're going to try and capitalize on that as well.
(31:28):
This is where we need to put the onus back on the consumer and say, grow up. Do we feel external pressures to behave or look a certain way? Absolutely, but not enough of us learn from that and then make our own choices to be healthy and not burned out. Wellbeing burnout is a choice. Brands and influencers are absolutely going to play into your insecurities and exploit them, but you don't have to let them. There's plenty of times that I'm like, okay, this is what I want to do today. I got to optimize this. I got my watch on and all of a sudden you're like, God, I'd just rather go for a run. So you know what you do, you turn it off as hard as that is and just go for your run. So this story just got my blood boiling. So I say fuck wellbeing burnout, I guess Lululemon, good work for reporting on it so that I could get so angry, but that's my parting shot. Well, okay then I guess we're just going
Producer Dave (32:21):
To let it sit at that. That
Colin (32:23):
Was like an OG back in the beginning rock fight.
Producer Dave (32:28):
I was going to comment on the 55% uptick in wellbeing burnout. But also too, if you look at the countries that they ci, it's being the most burned out. Australia Zealand, Canada, Malaysia, United States, all of those have a strong Murdoch media presence. I'm wondering if there's any correlation between that. I'm not sure. Purely anecdotal.
Colin (32:51):
That's a good point. Your FKT pursuit might be fine if you weren't getting pummeled with shitty news stories. 24 hours all
Producer Dave (32:58):
The time. Right? All the time. Doom scrolling and wellness probably don't go
Colin (33:04):
Together while you're tracking your run. You're like doom scrolling with your other hand. That's right.
Producer Dave (33:08):
Boy, I don't feel very good about myself.
Colin (33:11):
Just put music on and go for your run. Go for your bike ride. Go for your hike. That's right. That's the Justin Hausman Way. Oh well then the Hausman method coming this fall from Rock fight books. Oh, I like that.
Producer Dave (33:25):
I'd subscribe to that.
Colin (33:28):
I would too. There's a magazine we should publish. The Houseman. The Houseman. The
Producer Dave (33:33):
Houseman. That's right.
Colin (33:36):
Alright man, we can wrap it up there. Thanks for listening everybody. The rock Fight, it's a production of rock Fight LLC. Our producer today was David Carta. Art direction provided by Sarah, the big winner. Colin. True. Thanks for listening. I'm here to take us out. Jen doesn't like him anymore. It's Krista makes and he's here to sing the rock Fight Fight song. We'll see you next time. Rock fighters. Rock fight, rock fight. Rock fight. Rock
Chris DeMakes (34:02):
Fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. We go into the rock, fight where we speak our truth, stay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. We talk about human power, outdoor activities and pick bikes about topics that we find interesting. Black culture, music, the latest movie reviews for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Welcome.