Five US Made Outdoor Brands You've Never Heard Of & The Return Of The Dire Wolf!
- colin7931
- 5 days ago
- 56 min read
Today on the show Colin and Justin Housman open things up by talking about the news that scientists have brought back the extinct dire wolf and read a pretty epic listener defense of Colorado.
Then they're joined by the owner of Garage Grown Gear, Lloyd Vogel, who lists off five US made outdoor brands that many of our listeners have likely not heard of. Check them out!
Lastly, for The Parting Shot, Colin offers a retraction for last week's Parting Shot at footwear brand Lems.
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Episode Transcript:
Colin True
00:00:00.240 - 00:00:09.064
You're listening to Rock Flight Radio. My God, is that Fitz's music? You know it is. Get ready for There's a Smile on My Toes.
FITS!
00:00:09.192 - 00:01:24.990
Woke up this morning feeling so alive Sunshine in my step Making my spirit jive Hope for comfort Rapping is so sweet Dancing on clouds with every beat There's a smile on my toes every single day Cool and warm together in a brilliant play Free range toe box lets my feet sing Fits is the joy that each new step brings Deep heel pocket huggin me just right fine gauge merino soft like the moonlight Laughing and skipping Feeling so flat in a happy place with every spy There's a smile on my toes every single day Cool and warm together in a brilliant play Free raised toe box lets my feet sing Fitz is the joy that.
Colin True
00:01:25.030 - 00:01:52.400
Each new step brings that was There's a Smile on My Toes from Fitz. Cause that's what whole foot comfort looks like. New spring styles are in stores now. Didn't get your orders in? No need to cry. Just send Judy.
You know Judy. Everyone knows Judy. Send Judy an email@customerserviceitsock.com and she'll turn those frowns upside down. Oh, tell your feet that we said hi.
And now back to the show.
Chris DeMakes
00:01:54.140 - 00:02:01.840
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Colin True
00:02:02.540 - 00:02:18.596
Welcome to the Rock Fight, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head.
I'm Colin True, and joining me today, he's here to introduce the most powerful tariff of them all, the Hausman Tariff. It's Justin House.
Justin Housman
00:02:18.668 - 00:02:21.000
Oh, my God. What if we could do personal tariffs?
Colin True
00:02:21.420 - 00:02:24.884
How'd that work? I'm into it. Let's do it. Does that mean we can make some more money on that? I'm into it.
Justin Housman
00:02:24.892 - 00:02:36.292
No. Well, mine would all be emotional somehow or conversational. I don't. I need to figure this out.
I don't know, but, like, if I could somehow have people talk to me 25% less or something like that, like.
Colin True
00:02:36.316 - 00:02:45.640
I'd consider that it could be a parenting tool. Like, you give your kids 100 bucks and every time they, like, make you feel bad about yourself or angry or whatever, it's like, five bucks.
Let's pay the tariff. They had the parenting tariff.
Justin Housman
00:02:45.800 - 00:02:50.616
Pretty funny. Just teaching them about tariffs would be pretty nobody. Thing is, I don't know anything about tariffs.
Colin True
00:02:50.728 - 00:02:55.368
I've said tariffs more in the last week than I have in my entire life. Before this week.
Justin Housman
00:02:55.424 - 00:02:59.220
Have you said. Have you. Have you made, like, a dumb Terrified joke yet.
Colin True
00:02:59.600 - 00:03:02.296
Well, now I kind of feel like you ruined it. I don't know if I can now.
Justin Housman
00:03:02.368 - 00:03:06.632
No, you shouldn't because I'm fucking tired of seeing people. Are you terrified of the tariffs?
Colin True
00:03:06.776 - 00:03:07.432
That's terrible.
Justin Housman
00:03:07.496 - 00:03:17.920
Terrified of hearing terrified joke writing. Tariff is. The problem is. It's a good. It's a good word. Also sounds like Scarif. The. The planet where the. God. What happening on Scarif.
That was where the.
Colin True
00:03:18.780 - 00:03:20.020
Why do I know Scarif.
Justin Housman
00:03:20.100 - 00:03:24.740
That was where. Well, they. It's. It's. That's the planet in Rogue One where they have the big tropical beach fight.
Colin True
00:03:24.780 - 00:03:25.652
But I can't remember.
Justin Housman
00:03:25.716 - 00:03:30.320
It was like it. Was it projecting the. The. The shield for the Death Star.
Colin True
00:03:31.260 - 00:03:41.556
I can't remember. I. I started rewatching Andor season one, by the way, which this is a good segue to Andor and I. And I think that we should.
We let our listeners know that, like, the second half of the month of April is just you and I doing a.
Justin Housman
00:03:41.628 - 00:03:42.660
Just freaking out about it and.
Colin True
00:03:42.700 - 00:03:43.668
Or watch along podcast.
Justin Housman
00:03:43.684 - 00:03:45.572
Yeah. Because 22nd. Is that when it comes out?
Colin True
00:03:45.596 - 00:03:46.146
I think so.
Justin Housman
00:03:46.228 - 00:03:47.730
Oh, man, we're getting there.
Colin True
00:03:48.830 - 00:03:51.350
Right? Remember, Andor's coming up.
Justin Housman
00:03:51.390 - 00:03:54.438
See, I wish it was Netflix, though, where they. They just drop it all at once.
Colin True
00:03:54.494 - 00:03:56.342
Because I. Oh, I like that. It's like slow.
Justin Housman
00:03:56.406 - 00:04:00.678
I don't. I do. I do like that too, because I would watch them all in one evening.
Colin True
00:04:00.774 - 00:04:05.650
Next time you come on the body, it's all haggard, you know, slept and like, I just got done.
Justin Housman
00:04:06.430 - 00:04:23.297
You seen that Portlandia sketch where they, where they do that with Battlestar Galactica, they, like, lose their jobs. I remember that Battlestar Galactica was probably the first thing that I fully binged like that to that level. Right.
I'd be like, it's three in the morning. What the hell am I doing?
Colin True
00:04:23.433 - 00:05:15.586
Well, anyway, well, today we're going to be talking about. We got a headline to talk about. We have a listener email to talk about.
We're only going to do that for a few minutes because then we're going to be joined by Garage Growing Gear's Lloyd Vogel to talk about some unknown US Outdoor brands. We figured with all the tariff conversations going on, let's hit some brands that already exist in the US and then.
And no one knows more about those than Lloyd. But first, follow all of Rock Fight's podcasts. You got the Rock Fight. You got open container. Maybe there's some other titles coming up soon.
We'll keep you posted on that. You'll find out.
But hit the follow button on whatever podcast app you are listening to us on right now and then go back and listen to anything you may have missed this week. On Monday, we went deep, deep into the tariff conversation. On Wednesday, we broke news about the brands for public lands.
Open container had an episode on Tuesday. So we got three episodes for you to listen to right there. Go check them out. And right now, Justin, he's going to tell you.
If anyone's listening to this, they want to reach out to the Rock Fight universe. What would you recommend they do?
Justin Housman
00:05:15.658 - 00:05:40.430
Well, I would recommend that they start even besides listening. Oh, reaching out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going to say I would recommend they just start listening to the podcast. But they've already listened.
They're already listening to the podcast. So yeah, I mean, or else they're like in the room with us right now. I don't know how else they'd be hearing this newsletter behind you.
There might be. There's a lot of flies in here and I'm now realizing a fatal strategy to my outdoor office.
Colin True
00:05:40.760 - 00:05:41.360
What's that?
Justin Housman
00:05:41.400 - 00:06:20.094
Does the flies. Well, I'm gonna have to get like the netting on the door that. Like Velcro netting. Anyway, newsletter. Sign up for it.
I don't know what's taking you so long.
Frankly, I feel bad for you, a little embarrassed for you that you, if you haven't already signed up for the newsletter because you really missed out on a lot of epic content and it's not coming back. The only way you can get it is on the newsletter. And so head over to Rockfight Co. There's gonna be a little pop up.
It's gonna ask you to join the mailing list. You're gonna say yes and it's going to sign up, insult you like I just did. But just understand that like it's kind of wants to a little bit.
Like the pop up is kind of like, what the fuck, dude? Yeah. Exclusive content. It's not just an aggregator.
Colin True
00:06:20.142 - 00:06:20.318
It's.
Justin Housman
00:06:20.334 - 00:06:41.576
It's brand new stuff every week and we're pretty proud of it. It's really well done. So sign up for that. What do you want? What do you want to, you know, drop us a line somewhere? Well, you can do that.
We have a Gmail account. MyRock fighter, gmail.com. that's what I would do. What else would I do? What else would I do? I'd hit us up on social if you want to. Rock Fight Co.
Is that where we are on insta.
Colin True
00:06:41.608 - 00:06:44.456
No, sorry, the socials. Yes.
Justin Housman
00:06:44.568 - 00:07:01.592
Rock Fight Co. Go ahead Join us. There's. For whatever reason, we're like, look, folk, I'm gonna let you in on a little secret. Rockfit's doing pretty good.
Okay, like, we're good. We don't have to worry about us. We're doing good. But for some reason, none of you visit us on Instagram, like, at all.
And I don't know why that is, but, you know, just check it out, for God's sake.
Colin True
00:07:01.616 - 00:07:02.376
You're awesome. Instagram.
Justin Housman
00:07:02.408 - 00:07:16.228
Love you're on Instagram. Anyway, just go over there for like, I guess it' because it's all outdoor industry folks, but our LinkedIn just like crushes.
But Instagram, for whatever reason. I don't know what you're looking at, but it's not us. So anyway, head over there. Follow us there too. What else? I cover everything.
Colin True
00:07:16.284 - 00:07:41.632
Is that everything? Got it. All right, well, our top story today is. Is presented by your hub for ultra. Like, your garage grown gear. And this is not like a.
We're not like, just, you know, Lloyd. This isn't the Lloyd Bogo episode. This really. He really did want to come on and talk about this stuff. And just so happens that his company sponsors.
Yep, Sponsors the podcast. But head to garagegrowing gear.com and check them out. And we didn't want to talk about. Like I said, we didn't want to talk about tariffs.
REI had an announcement today where they walked back their endorsement of Doug Bergen.
Justin Housman
00:07:41.776 - 00:07:50.496
That's fun. That's like, terrified. But it's also a Star wars reference and it's scary as well. Like, scary scarif that we can play. We can work with.
Colin True
00:07:50.568 - 00:07:51.056
Got there.
Justin Housman
00:07:51.128 - 00:07:52.928
Yeah, I got there. We could do something fun with that.
Colin True
00:07:52.984 - 00:07:54.368
Into the REI announcement today.
Justin Housman
00:07:54.424 - 00:07:56.272
I was. I wasn't listening to you at all. What now?
Colin True
00:07:56.296 - 00:08:06.928
Oh, well, no, I was just mentioning that the, you know, there was the REI announcement today. Their new CEO walked back their endorsement of Doug Burgum. We just. It's just been a lot the last couple weeks, and we just wanted to have kind of a.
Kind of old school.
Justin Housman
00:08:06.984 - 00:08:10.412
Like, you have to acknowledge that we. But we feel like we should acknowledge that that happen. Happened.
Colin True
00:08:10.476 - 00:08:11.340
That did happen.
Justin Housman
00:08:11.460 - 00:08:36.764
Yeah. I. I will say one thing about two things about that, and then we could drop it. Okay. The first one is I really. I got a little chuckle when I saw.
If you haven't seen the video, there's a video on Instagram as well of.
I'm sorry, you probably just said, I forget Mary Beth Lawton wearing the, like, the REI vest, like, the green vest, which it's just funny to me because you're like, at what point did she go, should I have a green vest on? Or did, like, the director of comms go get her a green vest now, you know?
Colin True
00:08:36.772 - 00:08:37.532
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Justin Housman
00:08:37.596 - 00:08:42.855
But. But honestly, like, they pulled it off. Like, she looks like she. Like she means it.
Colin True
00:08:42.927 - 00:08:47.031
I like that they shot it in a store, too. They didn't do it, like, in an office in Seattle or something or, like.
Justin Housman
00:08:47.055 - 00:08:50.407
Or like, in the Maroon Bells or some weird, like, you know.
Colin True
00:08:50.463 - 00:08:53.751
Right, right. 15,000ft.
Justin Housman
00:08:53.895 - 00:09:06.359
It just occurred to me that was a bad call. Anyway, I just. I thought that was cool. And also, I guess I just feel like. I just feels like it should be acknowledged.
You can't really, like, take back an endorsement. You already did it.
Lloyd Vogel
00:09:06.399 - 00:09:06.887
It's hard.
Justin Housman
00:09:06.943 - 00:09:09.541
I. I think, but I'm really glad they're doing this.
Colin True
00:09:09.655 - 00:09:30.058
That's it. Right? I mean, look, and she's in a good position where she's new and. And she gets to say this.
And it's for them, like, anybody who else was on that endorsement, it's like 30 people, like, but, like, they have a active customer base who has been merciless since this has come out. And, like, for them, they're like, look, our customers are pissed. So guess what? Yeah, we're back. We're walking it back.
Justin Housman
00:09:30.114 - 00:09:36.360
The market is speaking. So, yeah, good. I mean, I'm it. I wish it happened sooner, but hell yeah. Good for you.
Colin True
00:09:37.220 - 00:09:39.228
All right, but let's. Let's talk about some other stuff.
Justin Housman
00:09:39.324 - 00:09:40.840
Enough. Enough real news.
Colin True
00:09:41.700 - 00:09:53.276
Enough real shit. Well, this is real shit, actually. So according to Explorers Web, and this article is written by friend of the pod, Rochelle Schrute.
Those crazy scientists, Justin, they're crazy scientists are doing. They're doing crazy things.
Justin Housman
00:09:53.348 - 00:09:55.468
Are you lumping me in with the crazy scientists?
Colin True
00:09:55.564 - 00:09:58.640
You're kind of. A crazy scientist is a paleontologist.
Justin Housman
00:09:59.300 - 00:10:00.508
Archaeologist. Excuse me.
Colin True
00:10:00.564 - 00:10:03.756
Archaeologist. Gosh, which is cooler, an archaeologist or a paleontologist?
Justin Housman
00:10:03.788 - 00:10:05.548
Well, paleontologists do dinosaurs.
Colin True
00:10:05.644 - 00:10:16.060
Yeah, right. They're kind of like the co. Coolest scientists, no question. Right? Yeah, the.
Anyway, so apparently a new startup called Colossal bioscience, which I think we've talked about before, I think they're the ones.
Justin Housman
00:10:16.400 - 00:10:17.560
They've been around for a while.
Colin True
00:10:17.680 - 00:11:06.266
Yeah. So they're using. According to Rochelle's article, quote, used advanced.
They've used advanced DNA editing techniques, and by sequencing ancient DNA samples recovered from fossils preserved in tar pits, researchers reconstructed a complete genome of the dire wolf, closely related yet distinctly separate from modern gray wolves. Rachelle also writes, is Also a quote. The project has sparked a vigorous debate within the conservation community.
Supporters view it as a monumental achievement in species restoration, while skeptics caution about potential risks to existing wildlife. I know before, and you're a man of science, and we talked about this before, but, like, what.
Is there a compelling argument for this type of thing to happen? I don't think we ever got to a conclusion where we've talked about this stuff before. Is there a compelling argument? Probably. Why?
Justin Housman
00:11:06.338 - 00:11:22.474
Why probably, like, species by species. The direwolf, though, such a weird. They're very clearly going for these, like, big, splashy things like the. The mammoth, the direwolf.
Like, it's not like people are clamoring to have direwolves back, you know, like, it's. We have wolves, you know, like, I.
Colin True
00:11:22.482 - 00:11:26.026
Thought they were made up for games. I know. It was a real thing.
Justin Housman
00:11:26.098 - 00:11:35.326
Yeah. So I don't. I. I don't love that they've got that just. That just says to me, like, they're trying to pick sexy ones, which.
Which makes me think that your judgment is not great.
Colin True
00:11:35.398 - 00:11:35.582
Right.
Justin Housman
00:11:35.606 - 00:11:43.534
Like, you're not.
Like, there's probably animals that fulfill a very specific ecological niche that we need, that are gone, that you could have done this with, you know, but we.
Colin True
00:11:43.542 - 00:11:47.870
Could create a bacteria that would actually restore this ecosystem. Now that. Let's make a wolf.
Justin Housman
00:11:47.950 - 00:12:58.582
No, no, no, no. Nobody's gonna put. Yeah, well, I mean, like, it's all over the news, way more so than bacteria would be.
And, like, if there's already a big old thing in the New Yorker about it, so that. That doesn't sit particularly well with me. Also, I think. I feel like I don't know enough to really understand.
Surely there's potential implications if you just release a bunch of new animals that have not really existed for a long time into the ecosystem.
Of course, my concern, though would be that this gives you sort of almost in the same way that geoengineering would, like, carte blanche to just murder shit, I'll just make new ones. Seriously. Like, in an era where they're already going to start to rely, like, they're all the.
In this country, at least they're already going to try to relax. Like, basically every possible endangered species protection argument's probably going to be made. You know what it. Fuck the humpback whales, dude.
We'll make more, right? We have the DNA. Like, yeah, like, let's get all the crab, which is like.
Or whatever it is that's like, you know, we can't crab right now because there's humpbacks. Let's get rid. Let's get all the crab. We'll let all the humpbacks die in nets for crab pots and stuff. And then.
Then when we're done with the crabs, we'll just bring the humpback. I mean, people will make that argument. So that freaks me out quite a bit. That's my main concern, I think.
Colin True
00:12:58.686 - 00:13:03.382
The funny thing is, like, you go back, so this is basically, we're barreling towards Jurassic park being real.
Justin Housman
00:13:03.486 - 00:13:03.942
Yeah.
Colin True
00:13:04.006 - 00:13:10.886
And the funny thing about that is when that book was written, and even if you just go off of the movie, it's 1993 and the ideas were so.
Justin Housman
00:13:10.958 - 00:13:11.974
1993.
Colin True
00:13:12.062 - 00:13:14.454
That's how the movie came out, in 93. Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:13:14.502 - 00:13:15.590
It still looks good.
Colin True
00:13:15.710 - 00:13:31.602
It looks incredible. But it's. The ideas were fresh, like, because it was a time when it's like, oh, my God, we can make dinosaurs. Well, that sounds cool.
And then so the idea of, like, the Jeff Goldblum character being like, hey, you know, you didn't think if you figured out if you could before you thought if you should, all that, that stuff. Well, now we're 30 years later, still.
Justin Housman
00:13:31.626 - 00:13:32.626
Haven'T answered that question.
FITS!
00:13:32.698 - 00:13:33.042
Yeah.
Colin True
00:13:33.106 - 00:13:34.402
But, you know, we could make wolves.
Justin Housman
00:13:34.466 - 00:14:08.282
How cool would it be to see dire wolves? Yeah, I don't. I mean, there's. There's.
What we would have talked about before, likely, is the arguments that exist about, like, why certain kinds of megafauna are really important for certain ecosystems, like the Siberian tundra. Right. Which was like. I think that was like, the original idea was, oh, we actually need these big heavy animals that will help, you know, re.
Impact the soil and, like, keep that permafrost the way it's supposed to be and all this kind of stuff. So let's bring it back, if we can, versus dire wolves, which, again, I haven't read enough about this.
Maybe there's a really good specific reason, but I just can't imagine that there is, you know?
Colin True
00:14:08.386 - 00:14:10.074
Well, they brought back the T. Rex.
Justin Housman
00:14:10.122 - 00:14:17.146
And they're all, why did you bring back a T. Rex? Like what? Like, of all the dinosaurs, you know, like, because. Because it's cool.
Colin True
00:14:17.258 - 00:14:17.482
Right.
Justin Housman
00:14:17.506 - 00:14:40.662
And you can get more money that way. I mean, I don't. I mean, it's. It's a tired. It's a tired criticism that we're playing God. But that's exactly what's happen, exactly what we're doing.
The thing that pisses me off about the world, generally speaking, is when people make decisions for us that we have no, say in, like, this, like. Like, AI is another great example. Like, nobody asked for that. Nobody voted for it. Like, at no point was it asked, hey, do you want AI? It was just.
Here it is, deal with it. And like, that's how this is to.
Colin True
00:14:40.686 - 00:15:33.458
Me, at least AI. When you really.
If you really go deep on EI AI and you see the implications of it to, like, the medical fields and, like, there are these things that AI is doing or is being developed to do where it's like, well, okay, that's pretty great. When you start to look at that.
If it's not just making pictures and letting us create, plagiarize our term papers in high school, stuff like that, there are real world implications of it. I agree with you that it should be much more managed than it is. This one I have yet to hear the argument of. This is why we need X, Y and Z.
To your point, what you just said about, hey, we could use a woolly mammoth over here because it would help avert the worst of climate change. Okay, but is there another way we can go about that besides resurrecting extinct animals? Like, it sounds like there might be a.
A better solution here. I don't know.
And I'm sure I'm gonna forget about this, and then they're gonna make some other animal and like, six months from now, I'll be like, hey, Justin, did you hear? They made this animal now and we're gonna have the same conversation.
Justin Housman
00:15:33.634 - 00:15:39.618
I mean, they haven't made a mammoth yet, so I don't know if it's harder, if it's. If, like, what the issue is. Like, I don't know. I don't know why.
Colin True
00:15:39.674 - 00:15:43.640
Yeah, there's a picture in this article of the people, like, holding the wolves. Like, I mean, they did this.
Justin Housman
00:15:43.810 - 00:15:49.548
Yeah. And they're. Yeah. And so they're gonna, you know, they're gonna fucking name them after the direwolves in Game of Thrones.
Colin True
00:15:49.644 - 00:15:50.620
No, they did.
Justin Housman
00:15:50.740 - 00:15:51.628
They already did that.
Colin True
00:15:51.684 - 00:15:54.108
Yeah, Romulus. Yeah, it's in the article.
Justin Housman
00:15:54.164 - 00:15:56.732
And those are the names of the. Of the wolves from the Game of Thrones.
Colin True
00:15:56.756 - 00:16:00.400
And they said they did it because of Khaleesi's wolves and Game of Thrones.
Justin Housman
00:16:02.340 - 00:16:03.068
Yeah, let's see.
Colin True
00:16:03.124 - 00:16:04.556
That's exactly an aneurysm.
Justin Housman
00:16:04.668 - 00:16:06.680
That's exactly the shit I was talking about.
Colin True
00:16:07.060 - 00:16:22.900
Let me throw this one at you, though.
Given where we are in the world where we're creating animals from scratch and we have AI that is apparently, like, accelerating its, like, you know, intelligence. Here are your two possible Outcomes. Which one do you want to live through? Jurassic park or the Terminator?
Justin Housman
00:16:23.060 - 00:16:24.644
Which one, dude?
Colin True
00:16:24.692 - 00:16:36.484
Or the Matrix? You can throw the mate you want. You want the. You want to be killed.
You want the dinosaurs to take over the Earth versus just being wiped out quickly in a nuclear apocalypse. Well, yeah, you get to see dinosaurs.
Justin Housman
00:16:36.532 - 00:16:39.652
Yeah, exactly. Plus, I feel like, you know, you hang with the cool ones, like, they.
Colin True
00:16:39.676 - 00:16:45.240
Might be okay, but would you rather see a T800 endoskeleton walking around with a machine gun?
Justin Housman
00:16:45.320 - 00:16:52.616
No. That's good. I would die of fright in seconds. I would immediately die. Like, I don't think there's anything scarier than that.
Colin True
00:16:52.768 - 00:17:05.448
All right, before we get to Lloyd, Justin, we have a contender for maybe the best listener email ever. This is from triple bypass, so I don't know what that is referring to.
Justin Housman
00:17:05.504 - 00:17:08.820
I mean, maybe they had a triple bypass, which we're proud of.
Colin True
00:17:09.229 - 00:17:27.029
They write, dear Colin, look, I've tried to let it go, I really have, but every time you toss another one, another one of your Colorado thinks it's so cool. Grenades on the rock fight. I can practically hear your Columbia vest tightening with bitterness. That's an accusation.
I don't know how I feel about that.
Justin Housman
00:17:27.069 - 00:17:28.341
But you don't own a Columbia vest.
Colin True
00:17:28.405 - 00:17:30.965
Let me say it plainly. Colorado is that cool.
Justin Housman
00:17:31.077 - 00:17:31.669
Okay.
Colin True
00:17:31.749 - 00:17:32.837
Sorry if that hurts.
Justin Housman
00:17:32.933 - 00:17:33.541
All right.
Colin True
00:17:33.645 - 00:17:34.853
Yeah, we know the state smells.
Justin Housman
00:17:34.901 - 00:17:38.720
You can end it there. I mean. No, no, go ahead.
Colin True
00:17:38.840 - 00:17:59.264
He has some good. He makes some points. Or they. I should say they. Triple bypass could be any gender. We know the state smells like pine needles and Subarus.
That's what happens when you've got world class skiing, mountain biking, climbing, trail running, fly fishing and craft. And a craft brewery every six. Every six feet, all with a view. We're not trying to be the main character of the outdoor industry. We just are.
Justin Housman
00:17:59.352 - 00:18:04.640
No, no, just. That's California, That's Oregon, that's Washington. I mean, lots of places to have those things.
Colin True
00:18:04.680 - 00:18:26.796
And before you accuse me of being just another Colorado based gearhead with a superiority complex, I'm also from Hawaii. I'm from Hawaii, Colin. Yeah, Hawaii. You know, the place where outdoor isn't a hobby, it's a birthright.
I was paddling outrigger canoes and surfing reef breaks before you sent. Before you. Central Valley Housman figured out. Oh, before Central Valley Housman figured out how to pronounce Marino.
Justin Housman
00:18:26.908 - 00:18:35.952
Well, you got called out, Central Valley, huh? Because I was. I mean, I. Okay. I mean, have I even mentioned that I was born in the valley on the show. I guess I must have.
All right, go ahead, Go ahead.
Colin True
00:18:35.976 - 00:18:55.660
So if I say Colorado deserves a crown, it's not because I read about it in Outside, your favorite publication. This guy's a good listener. He listens to the show. It's because I've lived the damn comparison. Hawaii is a paradise with a pulse.
Colorado is heaven with a trailhead. You want to keep tossing shade, fine, but let's call it what it is. Classic outdoor industry jealousy. And you live in one dimensional SoCal, bro.
Justin Housman
00:18:56.040 - 00:18:57.088
You mean envy.
Colin True
00:18:57.184 - 00:18:59.264
Triple bypass jealousy.
Justin Housman
00:18:59.312 - 00:19:00.352
God, that drives me nuts.
Colin True
00:19:00.416 - 00:19:17.414
You know, if Colorado and Hawaii had a baby, it'd be the Chuck Norris or the Dave Matthews Jack Johnson of outdoor states, and you'd move there in a heartbeat. You'd even snuff out that heartbeat. Oh, you may even snuff out that heartbeat, though. With love, aloha sweat and altitude sickness. Triple bypass, yo.
Justin Housman
00:19:17.462 - 00:19:21.014
Triple bypass. Colorado and Hawaii did have a baby. You know what it's called?
Colin True
00:19:21.182 - 00:19:22.262
California.
Justin Housman
00:19:22.406 - 00:19:29.158
It's called California, dude. It's California.
Colin True
00:19:29.254 - 00:19:36.894
I. I love the. I love the lengths that this person went to to write this. You could tell they listen. You can tell they have a sense of humor and.
Justin Housman
00:19:36.982 - 00:20:05.834
No, that's great. It's a great. It's a great email. Triple bypass. That's really funny. Somebody got mad at me on Instagram the other day because they were.
There's this guy that goes around asking people things like what's. You've probably seen it. He's like, overweight due to the beard. And the caption would be like.
Or the question, like, what's the flattest state in the country? And it's all these. He's like interviewing people all over the place. And they'll be like, Kentucky. They're like, no.
Or like, the answer is, I don't know, Kansas or whatever. Anyway, he. Which was. Which is the least flat state in the country?
Colin True
00:20:05.922 - 00:20:06.122
I.
Justin Housman
00:20:06.146 - 00:20:09.994
By the way, I got it right. It's West Virginia, which I assumed I.
Colin True
00:20:10.002 - 00:20:12.890
Would have said Nevada, so that Nevada had like the most mountains or something like that.
Justin Housman
00:20:13.010 - 00:20:17.242
It will. It might. But I mean, I think it's like the least. There's the least amount of flat area interesting the state.
Colin True
00:20:17.266 - 00:20:18.026
Okay.
Justin Housman
00:20:18.218 - 00:20:29.630
But anyway. And someone said Colorado. A couple of people said Colorado. And someone in the comments said something like, I don't fucking remember. And I was like.
And I responded, well, Colorado, 75% Kansas. So many people got so mad.
Colin True
00:20:31.170 - 00:20:38.294
That's it. That's what we found. Because they're very sensitive, they're very entitled. And then Very, very sensitive.
So it's so easy to rile up people in Colorado rules.
Justin Housman
00:20:38.342 - 00:20:51.734
Colorado is very cool places. It's very fun to. It's very fun to make fun of. I mean, if. If. If my wife is like, look, dude, we have to move because of my job.
And the options are, like, Colorado or like virtually any other state. I'd pick Colorado.
Colin True
00:20:51.782 - 00:20:59.670
So, yeah, no, most of our ribbing comes from love because we like going to Colorado, and it's a cool place to hang out, but it's just. And it's just very fun to make fun of outdoors.
Justin Housman
00:20:59.750 - 00:21:01.718
It's so much fun because. Because it provokes this kind of email.
Colin True
00:21:01.774 - 00:21:07.168
Exactly. Exactly. And obviously triple bypasses gets it as well because they went deep on it, and you could tell.
Justin Housman
00:21:07.224 - 00:21:15.408
I'm curious why triple bypass moved to. I mean, it must have been a job. Like, if you grew up surfing and paddling and all that stuff. You love the ocean. Why'd you move to Colorado?
Like, why don't you move to California?
Colin True
00:21:15.504 - 00:21:17.376
Good question. Yeah. Triple bypass.
Justin Housman
00:21:17.408 - 00:21:19.280
Right back. Triple bypass. Yeah.
Colin True
00:21:19.360 - 00:21:20.096
Why not California?
Justin Housman
00:21:20.128 - 00:21:26.820
Also. Also, now I'm reading it. Currently riding this from 9,000ft while recovering from trailer when eating poke I made myself. Where'd you get that poke?
Not in Colorado.
Colin True
00:21:27.640 - 00:21:31.180
I like that he write made myself. That was. That's telling that he's in on the job.
Justin Housman
00:21:32.360 - 00:21:34.660
Fish to 9, 000ft.
Colin True
00:21:36.660 - 00:21:40.120
I think he's. I think he's trolling Colorado people right there by writing that.
Justin Housman
00:21:40.500 - 00:21:45.100
Maybe. Could be. That's a good one. All right.
Colin True
00:21:45.140 - 00:22:01.644
Hey, let's. Let's get into our conversation with Lloyd Vogel and talk about some US Made brands.
Today's episode of the Rock Fight is presented by Oboz, who is helping us ask the question, how do I love hiking? Hey, let me count the ways.
Justin Housman
00:22:01.692 - 00:22:02.012
Number one.
Colin True
00:22:02.036 - 00:25:21.610
Today, the oddly satisfying pain of a good hike. Muscles scream, but the heart soars. Number two. Seeing wildlife in their element. That deer is judging your pace, but it's fine. Number three.
The unspoken bond with other hikers. That knowing nod when you pass each other on the trail. Those are three great ways that we love hiking. But do you know about number four?
For every hike completed over a mile long during the month of April, Oboz will plant a tree as part of its Trail for Trees challenge. For each hike completed, participants will also receive chances to win weekly prizes from Oboz and Challenge partners.
Registration is free and Open now at trails4trees.com Participants can complete as many hikes as they wish on any given day, as long as each hike exceeds one mile.
Additionally, participants will receive a virtual badge in their Trails for Trees Challenge trophy case for each trail they complete, signifying how many trees they helped plant. Again, go to trailsfortrees.com to learn more.
And number five this hiking appreciation moment is brought to you by Oboz of Bozeman, Montana, maker of the Katabatic collection that includes the Katabatic LT and the Katabatic Wind. Check out the full katabatic footwear collection@obozfootwear.com oboz love hiking alright folks, let's talk about a game changer.
Literally, if you're a brand or retailer in the outdoor industry, think of Endeavor like the ultimate power up for your sales game.
This platform is designed to level up retail associates, giving them the XP they need to master your gear, sell more, and rack up rewards along the way. It's like a cheat code for better sales, making sure your products don't just sit on the shelves but actually move. Why is this valuable?
Well trained and motivated staff sell way more gear. Brands using endeavor like K2 Sports and Smith Optics have seen better sell through stronger brand engagement and real data insights on what works.
And here's where Endeavor gets really interesting it's gamified. That means learning about products and earning incentives feels fun and not like homework.
But there's also a couple of other power ups you'll want to consider. First is their partnership with locally, so online shoppers can instantly find a knowledgeable staffer in a nearby store ready to seal the deal.
Second is an option known as freemium where you can launch brand assets, push news feed posts, and coordinate rep club.
And with Endeavor's pay as you go plans, you can take sales contests, education campaigns, or collect staff insights collection programs all out for a test drive.
The Bottom Line if your retail game is feeling like it's stuck in easy mode, Endeavor is the upgrade you need to unlock next level sales, max out your team's knowledge and beat the boss. When it comes to customer experience. Head to Endeavor. That's End VR IO to learn more today.
All right, well that segment as we mentioned, brought to you by Garage Grown Gear. Hey, looking to lighten your load? Garage Grown Gear is your go to hub for ultralight backpacking gear from the coolest small brands out there.
If you're through hiking or overnighting, backpacking is more comfortable when you are carrying less weight. With free shipping on orders over $50GGG makes lightening your pack an easy and fun experience.
Check out the most specialty of specialty shops@garagegrowngear.com. and a great segue because Lloyd. Lloyd Vogel is now joining us. What's happening, Lloyd?
Lloyd Vogel
00:25:21.690 - 00:25:25.110
Wow, it's an. It's an honor to be on the podcast with you both.
Colin True
00:25:25.730 - 00:25:30.202
Well, we got a lot of feedback that we needed more white dudes on this show, you know, so.
Lloyd Vogel
00:25:30.386 - 00:25:33.430
Well, I certainly hit that demographic really well.
Colin True
00:25:34.130 - 00:25:44.916
Yeah, that's definitely. That's definitely a bit of feedback. We heard. Hey, you know, you're kind of a. You're kind of. Of a lot of white men.
I'm like, yeah, well, yeah, but, you know, at least working on it. All right, shantay.
Lloyd Vogel
00:25:44.948 - 00:25:55.028
Now at least I'm bucking the, the, the, you know, the Gen Xer crowd here and at least bringing a little bit more millennial sauce to the equation.
Justin Housman
00:25:55.204 - 00:25:58.280
Millennial sauce is such a gross phrase.
Colin True
00:26:00.940 - 00:26:11.440
Well, as everybody listening this probably knows, Lloyd is the owner of Garage Grown Gear, an online retailer who we just were talking about because Lloyd gives us money to talk about them. And so that's to say that's not why.
Justin Housman
00:26:11.480 - 00:26:16.864
But that is actually. That is why we. That is kind of why forced us into this guy's.
Colin True
00:26:16.912 - 00:26:18.300
Please, someone call the police.
Lloyd Vogel
00:26:19.240 - 00:26:20.352
That's how ads work, right?
Justin Housman
00:26:20.376 - 00:26:24.960
Extortion. I'm not sure that extortion is a crime anymore in the current.
Colin True
00:26:25.080 - 00:26:26.272
Oh, that's a really good point.
Justin Housman
00:26:26.376 - 00:26:27.984
State of America, new revenue stream for.
Colin True
00:26:27.992 - 00:26:32.672
The rock fight is just, you know, extortion. I don't know what our leverage is, but I'm sure it's something we get.
Justin Housman
00:26:32.776 - 00:26:34.640
We're the ones being extorted here, Colin.
Colin True
00:26:34.720 - 00:27:04.626
It's a good point. Now, Lloyd is here today not because he made us bring him on, but because.
Because of all the uncertainty going on, the calls for reshoring and manufacturing here in the US which is aimed to be, you know, by. By the tariff conversation, I wanted to highlight some of the lesser known folks who are already doing that thing here in the United.
In the United States.
And since garage grown gear is famous for holding up smaller and up and coming brands, who better to tell us about these folks than G man Lloyd Vogel? So we're gonna. We're gonna talk about some outdoor brands today. Did you like this assignment? Did you like this idea, Lloyd?
Lloyd Vogel
00:27:04.658 - 00:27:23.114
I did like this assignment, you know, and I've been waiting for my. My call up to be able to be on the Rock fight for some time now.
You know, as both a avid listener and a sponsor of the pod, you know, I've just been twiddling my thumbs, staring at my inbox, waiting, saying, maybe this Is the week that Colin is going to email.
Justin Housman
00:27:23.202 - 00:27:29.178
First of all. First of all, trust the process, okay? Trust the process.
Colin True
00:27:29.234 - 00:27:31.962
The farm system is established for exactly.
Justin Housman
00:27:32.026 - 00:27:35.482
You know, you showed promise at each. At each level, you know, and so.
Colin True
00:27:35.586 - 00:27:36.714
Caught your appearance on the.
Justin Housman
00:27:36.722 - 00:27:36.938
Just.
Colin True
00:27:36.994 - 00:27:41.974
Was it just an outdoor pod? Okay. All right. Lloyd's making. Lloyd's doing okay, you know, Know, he's developing. All right, let's.
Lloyd Vogel
00:27:42.022 - 00:27:54.662
Well, I figured every time I go on a LinkedIn rant, I say to myself, maybe this is the time that I will get noticed putting in the work that, you know, the rock fight will. Just think, maybe Lloyd has something substantive to say.
Justin Housman
00:27:54.846 - 00:27:56.086
This might be the first.
Lloyd Vogel
00:27:56.238 - 00:27:56.950
This is the week.
Justin Housman
00:27:56.990 - 00:28:03.078
Is this calling. Is this the first time an active sponsor. Sponsor has been on the show?
Colin True
00:28:03.134 - 00:28:04.710
It really is. Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:28:04.870 - 00:28:07.010
No, this is.
Lloyd Vogel
00:28:07.390 - 00:28:09.670
No, Andrew from. Andrew from Lives in.
Colin True
00:28:09.710 - 00:28:17.230
Was on. Oh, yeah. And before he wrote. Maybe. Maybe during a current contract, though, maybe it might be.
Justin Housman
00:28:18.330 - 00:28:25.666
Well, we can discuss this at the next. At the next contract, you know, when the contract's up for renewal. Thank you. I forgot that word.
Lloyd Vogel
00:28:25.698 - 00:28:26.242
That's right.
Colin True
00:28:26.346 - 00:28:33.842
When we send it over, Lloyd, you know, we did pretty well, but the episode you were on crushed it, so that's the reason right there. You got to double, double, double what you're spending, bud. You know?
Lloyd Vogel
00:28:34.026 - 00:29:04.030
Yeah, that's right.
All right, well, we love supporting you guys and your shenanigans and all the wonderful work you guys do to actually cover our industry honestly and truthfully and with a lot of fun. So, you know, you give a compelling reason to be able to listen. And it's, you know, when.
When one looks around the industry and thinking about things that you want to be able to prop up, it's. It's not hard to look at the rock fight and say, that's something that deserves to be amplified and deserves to be supported, so.
Colin True
00:29:04.070 - 00:29:04.638
Thanks, man.
Lloyd Vogel
00:29:04.694 - 00:29:11.998
You know, I feel like I probably don't get a, you know, all that warm and fuzzy all that often, but I appreciate what you guys do.
Justin Housman
00:29:12.054 - 00:29:24.574
You know, Can I. Can I just say that we're. We're genuinely shocked Not. Not at the, like, support at the fact that you don't have another lot of other options, really.
I mean, it's just. It's.
Colin True
00:29:24.622 - 00:29:25.646
Where are you gonna go?
Lloyd Vogel
00:29:25.718 - 00:29:26.350
That's true.
Justin Housman
00:29:26.430 - 00:29:54.260
Well, I mean, other than, like, really at this point, other than a handful of podcasts, like, what are you gonna. Where are you gonna go? Yeah, where are you gonna read? Yeah, there's nothing out there anymore, so it's. Yeah, it's like, I.
We I don't, I mean, Colin started this whole thing, but I don't think it was really, I don't think it occurred to any of us, like when I first joined, that there was going to come a point in the, in the outdoor media landscape where it was basically just there for the taking. You know, it didn't seem like that to me, but, boy, it does now.
Colin True
00:29:54.720 - 00:29:56.780
I'll send outside a thank you card.
Justin Housman
00:29:57.120 - 00:29:57.900
Yeah.
Lloyd Vogel
00:29:59.840 - 00:30:05.864
Well, you guys came into it at the right time and there's definitely a, a real need for the type of content that you guys.
Colin True
00:30:05.912 - 00:30:12.026
Thanks, man. And listen, you're paying us, so like, that's not me, like, you know, talking about your thing. So that's like, that's authentic, people.
Lloyd Vogel
00:30:12.098 - 00:30:14.490
That's right. I'm not getting anything to say.
Colin True
00:30:14.530 - 00:31:23.746
Hey, I have some notes. Okay. Here's how I think you could get listenership up. Thank you, though, very much. Appreciate it. And we do love our partnership with you guys.
The parameters for today, though, so we asked Lloyd to create a list of five brands that we're going to talk about that I really wanted to stress, you know, and the initial list Lloyd came up with were like, people you would expect, like folks we've heard of who manufacture in the U.S. but I'm like, no, let's get weird. Let's, let's get, let's get some brands that people aren't, maybe aren't as familiar with.
Let's, let's, let's let the little guys have their day here. So the parameters were US manufacturing need to be made here, preferably soup to nuts made here, some materials made here as well.
But, you know, if they need some, it will allow for some components to come outside the country and have them be assembled here. Revenue under 5 million. I think we, I had mentioned you. I would prefer like under a million. Let's go real little.
But, you know, we needed to give you some Runway here in terms of like what you wanted to talk about. Maybe, maybe that would be too, too low of a revenue number at third point. The weirder the better, right?
We can't just have like, oh, here's four apparel brands on a footwear brand. Like, you know, last week you had us promoting a cook system that is accomplished by using the heat from your crotch. Do you know about this, Justin?
You weren't on that episode. The crotch pot. It's called the crotch pot.
Lloyd Vogel
00:31:23.818 - 00:31:24.830
Crotch pot.
Justin Housman
00:31:25.210 - 00:31:34.322
A. I'm trying to think of if I've heard. I don't think I've heard of this. And I'm trying to imagine how it works. You go about your business. I'm gonna.
I'm gonna think about how that could possibly work. This isn't an April Fool's thing.
Lloyd Vogel
00:31:34.346 - 00:31:38.930
Yeah, I mean, it did start off as an April Fool's thing. I mean, don't. Don't Google it.
Justin Housman
00:31:38.970 - 00:31:42.790
I'm not going to. I'm gonna try to imagine how that might work, and then. And then if.
Lloyd Vogel
00:31:44.930 - 00:31:56.842
No, it started off as an April Fool's thing, and then people actually were interested in it, so they made it as a product. And, you know, I'd be lying to say if we haven't already sold, you know, a couple dozen of them, they're. Yeah.
Colin True
00:31:56.906 - 00:32:01.150
You know, crotch pot go for these days. What's the MSRP on a crotch?
Lloyd Vogel
00:32:01.570 - 00:32:02.522
About 20 bucks.
Colin True
00:32:02.586 - 00:32:06.550
See, I would take a flyer on the crotch pot for 20 bucks. That sounds like a worthy use of my.
Justin Housman
00:32:07.330 - 00:32:08.026
Does it?
Lloyd Vogel
00:32:08.098 - 00:32:08.750
Yeah.
Colin True
00:32:09.990 - 00:32:12.014
Anyway, that's the kind of shit that we're looking for here, guys.
Justin Housman
00:32:12.062 - 00:32:13.246
Yeah, that is perfect. Yeah.
Colin True
00:32:13.278 - 00:32:20.958
Yeah. So we do love a top five list around here. So we're looking for five names. All right, so, Lloyd, let's turn it over to you, buddy. What do you got?
Lloyd Vogel
00:32:21.094 - 00:32:39.582
I got you. I mean, in. In trying to pick five brands, it's quite challenging.
Especially, you know, at Garage Grown, we carry about 250 brands, and I'd say probably 150 of them have the, you know, meet the criteria. So I'm. I'm probably going to be isolating some people here, but that's.
Colin True
00:32:39.646 - 00:32:41.590
We'll do it again. We'll do it again down the road.
Lloyd Vogel
00:32:42.610 - 00:33:12.040
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I tried to pick a couple that I thought were. Were interesting, doing some innovative stuff. And, you know, I think one of the.
The interesting things about having a global supply chain is that there are some brands that, you know, their entire supply chain is in the US but incredibly few. I mean, if you make anything with down, your down is probably coming from China, which is now going to have 125% tariff on it.
So expect anything with down in it to get wildly.
Justin Housman
00:33:12.120 - 00:33:19.944
Okay, I want to stop you right there. I just. Literally, today, my wife's chicken coop that we. She ordered online has arrived.
Colin True
00:33:20.072 - 00:33:21.340
Oh, it's happening.
Justin Housman
00:33:21.760 - 00:33:28.200
So I'm wondering, though, should we pivot to geese exclusively, you can become the.
Colin True
00:33:28.240 - 00:33:31.224
Sources of down in the U.S. yes.
Lloyd Vogel
00:33:31.352 - 00:33:35.860
Yeah, you can. You can start making, like, one sleeping bag, like, every 10 years.
Colin True
00:33:36.320 - 00:33:39.096
Have you had down?
Justin Housman
00:33:39.168 - 00:33:43.012
Oh, yeah. Each sleeping bag, it takes five years.
Colin True
00:33:43.036 - 00:33:45.840
To make, but it makes one coat a year.
Lloyd Vogel
00:33:46.940 - 00:34:13.814
Yeah, that's right. No, but you know, I think in thinking about it, these, you know, from the vast majority of fabrics are sourced from overseas.
There are very few brands that are kind of entirely based in the U.S.
so these are five brands that I thought, yeah, are just doing really interesting stuff and trying to, trying to pick ones that are on the smaller side. So I'm hoping, I think there's a good chance that you guys haven't heard of any.
Colin True
00:34:13.902 - 00:34:15.334
I'm looking at the list. I have not heard.
Justin Housman
00:34:15.382 - 00:34:17.462
I've heard of one of them. I've heard of. I've heard of one of them.
Colin True
00:34:17.486 - 00:34:22.690
Okay, that's pretty good. Okay, if you've got four out of five that Hausman hasn't heard of, that's pretty good list.
Lloyd Vogel
00:34:23.390 - 00:34:30.838
I mean that's the funniest thing about the ultralight space and kind of the cottage industry in general is like if you know, you know all of these and if you don't.
Colin True
00:34:30.934 - 00:34:31.846
Yeah, right.
Lloyd Vogel
00:34:31.998 - 00:35:34.940
Just a couple of small random brands. But we're going to start off right here in the fine state of Minnesota with a brand up in northern Minnesota called Brottingham Expedition Works.
And they make titanium products. So titanium sporks, titanium spoons, they make some saws they make. But like making titanium products is not particularly common in, in the states.
And he makes products that like, if you think of like a toke spoon or like a long handled titanium spoon, he, he does that type of a style but he cuts holes in them in the, in the, make them even lighter. And this, the spoon is boxed really nicely to be able to get at kind of the corners of a, like a prepackaged dehydrated meal.
So he, he does like long spoons, sporks things and he also does like really small little stubby spoons as well.
Colin True
00:35:35.060 - 00:35:37.630
Is this one guy, does he have like a team team?
Lloyd Vogel
00:35:38.410 - 00:35:47.522
It's just this dude Pete who for a while he like, Pete like smashed his hand with a, with his hammer and was like doing them with his left hand instead of.
Justin Housman
00:35:47.626 - 00:35:50.510
You don't want those. Hopefully, hopefully you don't get that.
Lloyd Vogel
00:35:51.370 - 00:35:55.234
I mean literally we had a batch. Slow down. Because he's like, I can't make them as fast.
Colin True
00:35:55.282 - 00:35:57.350
I want to know. Pete's off quality numbers.
Lloyd Vogel
00:35:59.050 - 00:35:59.730
I don't know.
Justin Housman
00:35:59.770 - 00:36:17.852
Pete, if you're listening to this, you need to start marketing these spoons to Marin County, California, where I live. Because listen to me.
This oil slick, titanium like, dude, like if you like, everybody up here on their twelve thousand dollar bike has oil slick everything and so these. That's what these colors look like to me. That kind of the reusable straw and.
Colin True
00:36:17.876 - 00:36:20.284
A spoon is like speaking your language and that in Marin, man.
Justin Housman
00:36:20.372 - 00:36:22.924
Well, but I'm talking specifically this oil slick color.
Colin True
00:36:23.052 - 00:36:28.560
It's the colorway. By the way, listeners, we'll leave. We'll link everything in the show notes so you can. You can just click on it while you're listening.
Lloyd Vogel
00:36:29.390 - 00:36:37.622
The. The prism vibe. Like, I mean, the reality is that so much of the titanium wear that we get in the US Is all made in the same factories in China. Right.
Justin Housman
00:36:37.726 - 00:36:53.770
I thought that. Okay. I thought titanium. When we got it here, was I not this.
I'm not being a smart ass because when I bought my first wedding ring, I got a titanium ring, and it was like so much of it was. Was scrapped or like, made from, like, scrap Soviet submarines. Is this. Is this not true?
Lloyd Vogel
00:36:54.830 - 00:36:59.990
I mean, I think the vast majority of. Of global titanium gets sourced through China and Russia.
Justin Housman
00:37:00.070 - 00:37:00.406
Right.
Lloyd Vogel
00:37:00.478 - 00:37:09.030
I don't think there's like, a lot of other options for where the raw materials come from. I can't speak to the. The submarine nature of it, but that makes for a compelling story.
Justin Housman
00:37:09.070 - 00:37:09.478
Yeah.
Lloyd Vogel
00:37:09.574 - 00:37:18.822
So I think we should run with it. I think Pete makes all of his spoons out of repurposed Russian submarines in northern Minnesota.
Justin Housman
00:37:18.966 - 00:37:20.134
He sunk himself.
Colin True
00:37:20.262 - 00:37:26.038
I know we're short on time, so I don't want to move on to the next one, but, Justin, take a look at the link I sent you of the shovel they make. And I think you.
Justin Housman
00:37:26.094 - 00:37:28.086
I'm looking at their. I'm looking at their whole shit right now.
Colin True
00:37:28.158 - 00:37:33.550
Look at the shovel. The shovel is dope. And I'm not even a shot. I have no use for a shovel. But I want the shovel.
Justin Housman
00:37:35.250 - 00:37:37.370
Too, with that thing. He makes a lot of really interesting.
Lloyd Vogel
00:37:37.450 - 00:37:53.466
You could. Yeah, I. I really like his stuff. It's just different. And again, not a lot of people making titanium. So. Shout out to Pete. Yeah.
I struggle to say their name all the time. It's his last name. Expedition Works. So. Yep. Check it out. Minnesota.
Justin Housman
00:37:53.498 - 00:37:53.722
All right.
Colin True
00:37:53.746 - 00:37:54.710
Who else you got?
Lloyd Vogel
00:37:55.420 - 00:38:15.572
I mean, you guys always give me a lot of shit for my. My love of Dyneema. So I'm. I purposely picked a Dyneema brand on here. All man's, right. Liv and his wife Jen out of the Bronx.
They make their stuff out of their. Their apartment. The Bronx live. Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:38:15.716 - 00:38:16.084
Yeah.
Lloyd Vogel
00:38:16.132 - 00:38:20.644
No, their studio is. Is sweet. They make like it. They're so.
Justin Housman
00:38:20.652 - 00:38:20.868
He.
Lloyd Vogel
00:38:20.924 - 00:38:48.032
He's a classical designer. He went to Parsons School of Design, which if you've ever watched like you TV shows like pretty much it all happens.
Designers go through Parsons, but he is one of our, our very few bipoc founders and, and makers. He grew up in the Dominican Republic and makes amazing products that are just like very thoughtfully designed from packs to food bags.
Colin True
00:38:48.096 - 00:38:49.696
I love the shopping bags, the grocery bags.
Justin Housman
00:38:49.728 - 00:38:52.032
The shopping bags, dude, I'm on there right now.
Colin True
00:38:52.136 - 00:38:54.900
I thought it was a legit plastic shopping bag.
Justin Housman
00:38:56.760 - 00:38:58.838
But like, like I kind of want it.
Lloyd Vogel
00:38:58.894 - 00:40:09.670
Oh yeah, but you can look so cool when you're shopping, dude.
And yeah, so like I mean they, yeah, I, I, I think they have a, a small shop that is maybe not their apartment right now, but their, their apartment in, in the Bronx has been their apartment and has been their, their studio. They you know, started off doing it kind of as a part time thing and then I think both of them are, are pretty much full time at it.
They had a, had a kid who you know was kind of always hanging around. Lucas. Yeah, they should have named him Dyneema.
But yeah, Liv went through the, there's kind of an incubator program through REI that specifically works with BIPOC founders and called Path Ahead Adventures. And he, he went through that and he's been crushing it.
Their designs are sweet if they have a lot of kind of like Japanese inspired, very minimalist looks to a lot of their products and we love selling them. Their steak bag is, is one of our better selling products.
It's a very simple design but it tapers so that your actually get in the bag and get the stakes and then it has a very like easy closure. So it's just like a very good attention to detail. Yeah. Lives a homie. He does really awesome stuff. It's really cool.
Justin Housman
00:40:10.970 - 00:40:17.378
I'm shocked that you can get. Well the, it's obviously not made of. Oh, the backpack is in Dyneema. Okay, that makes sense.
Lloyd Vogel
00:40:17.474 - 00:40:20.034
I don't think they're back in a.
Justin Housman
00:40:20.042 - 00:40:22.098
Backpack for 325 but they look fantastic.
Lloyd Vogel
00:40:22.194 - 00:40:22.642
Sure.
Colin True
00:40:22.746 - 00:40:24.728
All man's right. Do we know about the name?
Justin Housman
00:40:24.914 - 00:40:29.388
That's got to be a nod to the, to the, to the Scandinavian thing, right? Okay.
Lloyd Vogel
00:40:29.404 - 00:40:42.716
Yeah yeah. I think, I think Jen, his Liv's wife is, is Swedish and I think it's basically, I think Almand's right means like the like freedom to roam.
I think is basically what it means.
Justin Housman
00:40:42.868 - 00:40:50.044
Is like the, is like a, I don't know if Norwegian or Swedish, but that's exactly what that's, that's their, that's their like policy where you can basically go anywhere you want. A private land.
Colin True
00:40:50.132 - 00:40:57.670
I love that and I love. And it really like the way it's kind of a cool sounding name, whether you don't know what that means or not. All man's rights. Kind of a cool thing.
So nice. Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:40:57.830 - 00:41:04.806
This is an extremely cool brand. I'm. I'm so. I'm so glad you brought this to our attention. I never. This is not the one I'd heard of.
I'll tell you when we get to that one, but it's not this one.
Lloyd Vogel
00:41:04.878 - 00:41:18.810
Okay. Exciting. Yeah. Shout out to Liv doing cool stuff. Also, side note, there's a huge Japanese ultralight scene. It's massive. Yeah.
Like there is so much cool stuff coming out of Japan in terms of. Of of goods.
Colin True
00:41:19.310 - 00:41:22.776
The heritage of Snow Peak, is that kind of like where that all stems from in a way way?
Lloyd Vogel
00:41:22.928 - 00:41:37.128
Yeah. They. It's like a very, very similar, like very clean aesthetic and there's just a very large through hiking culture there.
And I think like yeah, I mean I could. That could be an entire episode, but kind of Mon Bell Snow Peak. Yeah.
Colin True
00:41:37.304 - 00:41:38.584
All right, who's number three?
Lloyd Vogel
00:41:38.752 - 00:41:53.450
Next? Next list. I have Igneous gear. So this is a.
A company that recently rebranded from Common Gear but they're a company that just started up in the last year or so from, from California I think from the Bay Area.
Justin Housman
00:41:53.570 - 00:41:55.670
This is the one I've raised, the one I've heard of.
Lloyd Vogel
00:41:56.370 - 00:41:56.938
Cool.
Justin Housman
00:41:57.034 - 00:41:57.710
Yeah.
Lloyd Vogel
00:41:58.370 - 00:43:16.666
Ray is one of the cooler humans that I that I know. But he, you know, makes a lot of like really cool little innovative small products.
So from ultralight repair kits that just have these are sick, you know, repair patches, a little needle that fits into a 3D printed case with some tape around really is just like exactly what you need and absolutely nothing more than it. He creates. He has like a very minimalist first aid kit that, that he made Leukotapes spools that are just like smaller and lighter.
Like you need to bring an entire spool of Lugo tape with you on a hike. Probably not unless you're going really far.
And even then, you know, your feet probably acclimate, you know, after a while to probably where you're not putting on liquid tape all the time to a bottle cap the days to things to be able to canuck water bladders. It's just like very intentional niche stuff that you know, especially for folks in our through hiking community.
You look at this stuff and you're like, oh, I actually understand where the use case for that is immediately. And I Think he's just been very, you know, he's, he's, he's made it as light as possible.
I mean a 3 gram bidet is absurd and I mean bidets are kind of absurd in general but a 3 gram bidet is particularly absurd.
Colin True
00:43:16.698 - 00:43:19.706
We'll have to get our the rock fights expert bidet expert. Ashanta.
Justin Housman
00:43:19.818 - 00:43:32.300
I have to try this now. I love that the photo, those of the bidet in action is like spraying off your muddy. What look like mountain bike shoes but not your butthole.
Lloyd Vogel
00:43:32.640 - 00:43:36.060
But yeah, that's behind a pay wall.
Justin Housman
00:43:36.800 - 00:43:40.696
Yeah, that's. They do have an only fans if you want to.
Colin True
00:43:40.848 - 00:43:46.824
That's their second. That's their how they're getting room. That's how they're making their money. You know, the igneous gear is just the front, you know, but it's.
Lloyd Vogel
00:43:46.872 - 00:43:49.220
Yeah, that's right. It's at a low rate.
Justin Housman
00:43:50.400 - 00:44:07.214
Real quick, are are these all, all as far as you know, DTC brands? I mean, I guess because I don't know if GGG counts as that.
If you know you're, I guess you're technically like a third party but I mean they don't have presences in stores or maybe they do somewhere kind of.
Lloyd Vogel
00:44:07.302 - 00:44:18.534
In some specialty shops. But pretty much all of all the brands on this list even, I'd say even the, the last one on the list is, is just entirely B2B or sorry, entirely B2C.
Justin Housman
00:44:18.582 - 00:44:19.286
Yeah.
Lloyd Vogel
00:44:19.478 - 00:44:58.094
You know and I even think a lot of the brands that are, that are that do work with us. I would still say that they are you know, 90. Primarily D2C.
Yeah, I, I'd honestly say that the humorous thing about a brand like Igneous Gear is that we, we do a, we probably do a vast majority of their business through Garage Grown. So they actually probably are primarily a B2B business.
But just because they work with us especially because like lower price point items like it's I don't know how many like $9 bidets you have to be able to ship and sell giraffes to.
Colin True
00:44:58.102 - 00:45:08.142
Be able to look at the prices. Yeah, they make like eight things and it's all like less than 20 bucks. So I mean.
Yeah, so I imagine they're selling a fair amount if they're, they're kind of showing if they're doing okay. So like good for them.
Lloyd Vogel
00:45:08.246 - 00:45:20.000
Well, I mean and that's, that's the thing is like you know, a lot of these brands, it's one of the reasons why they work with Garage Grown is that you know, you can sell a thousand of these units direct or you can just send them in a box to us and we'll do it.
Colin True
00:45:20.040 - 00:45:22.340
Oh yeah, for wholesale.
Lloyd Vogel
00:45:23.640 - 00:45:58.364
I mean it really is.
And so yeah, I mean, I think, you know, brands like All Man's right, they are primarily a D2C business, but they probably have a half, half dozen or a dozen retailers.
A lot of these places retail internationally because international retailers can deal with worse margins because they jack up the price on top of msrp. So a lot of, a lot of brands in the ultralight space. They maybe work with Garage gr, maybe one or two other domestic retailers.
But then they probably have, you know, 10 to 15 to 20 international retailers that they work with.
Colin True
00:45:58.452 - 00:46:00.284
All right, who you got? Who's next?
Lloyd Vogel
00:46:00.452 - 00:46:02.300
Let's go with Chicken Trapper Ultra.
Colin True
00:46:02.380 - 00:46:08.908
I was hoping you were gonna say that because this, this is a contender for best brand name ever. I mean, let's be honest, it's pretty great.
Lloyd Vogel
00:46:09.044 - 00:47:43.262
You know, Sea Tug is what they are colloquially known as. They are a Michigan based brand that kind of came on to the ultralight scene at a similar time as, as garage grown.
So we've been working with those dudes for, for a long time. Austin and Nathan are, are good, good folks.
But yeah, they, they really I think have done something interesting where they went really hard in on accessories.
So from shoulder pouches to water bottle pouches to little wallets, they kind of got in on the accessory X pack game like way before anyone else did and that have just like really built a brand around accessories.
I mean there's a lot of other companies that we sell the ultralight sacks and not packs and that also kind of have their brand identity around accessories. But they really have scaled up what they're able to do.
They've, they've got like a fairly sizable team, you know, probably around a dozen or so folks that are, that are, that are working in Michigan and trying to be able to kind of do that at scale, which is tough when, when manufactured here. And their packs, which are sweet.
I hiked the, the, I threw hike the sht a couple of years ago with one of their packs, but they've, their packs have really taken a back burner because their accessories have just been so successful, which I think is brilliant because the accessory market is only increasing.
And I think as ultralight becomes more and more kind of a mainstream idea, more people are kind of compensating for small packs with more accessories.
Justin Housman
00:47:43.326 - 00:47:43.902
I can see that.
Colin True
00:47:43.926 - 00:47:47.918
Which I assume Chicken Tramper is a, a trail name.
Lloyd Vogel
00:47:48.054 - 00:47:57.530
I don't Know, I think. I think Chicken Tramper is like an Australian concept or like, the idea of, like, tramping is like a.
Colin True
00:47:58.310 - 00:48:05.406
But I don't know, like, I got the idea of like, tramping or like a hiker. You're a tramper. But like, chicken is like, maybe that was a trail name.
Justin Housman
00:48:05.478 - 00:48:07.758
Pretty amazing. It doesn't say on the website anywhere.
Colin True
00:48:07.934 - 00:48:17.610
I will say too, I felt a little bad when I saw Sea Tug and I was thinking what the C and C Tug could stand for. But then the first thing you see on their website is like a mom with their kid running around. I'm like, okay, Colin, get. You know, little.
Justin Housman
00:48:18.710 - 00:48:23.464
I really want the. This blue and yellow. Yellow backpack. This thing is. This thing is badass.
Colin True
00:48:23.592 - 00:48:28.440
I just want something from Chicken Trapper Ultra. I mean, what a great name. Like, I just want. That's such a cool name, right?
Justin Housman
00:48:28.480 - 00:48:34.744
So, yeah, it's a smart idea because the second you ask somebody, hey, what pack is that? You're. Oh, Chicken Tramper. They're gonna be like, what? And they're never gonna forget.
Colin True
00:48:34.792 - 00:48:40.180
And they're like, oh, I have an Osprey and a chicken shampoo. Like, what the wrong with you?
Lloyd Vogel
00:48:41.040 - 00:49:27.060
Yeah, they do a great job. They show up at a lot of shows. I mean, all of these brands kind of in the small spaces are found at, you know, the Appalachian Trail Days and the.
The PCT Days, which, if you're ever looking to go, we treat PCT days. And I encourage any retailer that's listening to this pod to go to shows like Appalachian Trail Days and PCT Days and treat them like a trade show.
Like, if you want to find small brands in the space that are kind of doing cool and innovative stuff, go to the trail shows and show up like it's a trade show. You'll have way more fun because, you know, it's like a literal party for a weekend. And, you know, we have 60 brands that are at. At Trail Days.
Like, I will be working that event and then, you know, hanging and chilling in the afternoon. It's way more fun than any other trip.
Colin True
00:49:27.960 - 00:49:29.520
All right, who's last in the list?
Lloyd Vogel
00:49:29.640 - 00:50:18.968
Last is a brand that we don't sell. We have sold them in the past. But Timbermaid is this guy, Dan Timmerman.
He is doing some of the most innovative stuff, I think, within the ultralight space in terms of like a. A purely D2C brand. I think at times Dan's got like a, I don't know, 14 week lead time. He has to do like, releases of availability for his.
For his capacity. But he makes, yeah, I mean, everything that he makes. A lot of it's super custom. A lot of it is just, it's as ultralight as it gets.
I mean, a lot of people have moved away from doing like Dyneema rainwear. He'll do Dyneema rainwear. A lot of his pullovers and down jackets are as light as it gets. And it's just, it's like really pushing.
Like his down sweater is like a, like a three, four ounce.
Colin True
00:50:19.064 - 00:50:41.108
I'm looking at that. I mean, it's full on. Stay puff marshmallow man looking. I'm here for it. It is awesome. Awesome. I just like that.
It just reminded me of the days like in the 90s and 2000s when brands were new or even like when hardware was new and it was like, oh, you're wearing that. And to have that down coat with the Timbermaid logo on it, like that's the one you want to wear.
Like when you're in the crowd of outdoorsy people, like, that's the brand that makes you stand.
Lloyd Vogel
00:50:41.164 - 00:50:41.572
Totally.
Colin True
00:50:41.636 - 00:50:42.692
I love that.
Lloyd Vogel
00:50:42.876 - 00:51:42.724
Yeah, no, Timberman is definitely like the, the Timbermaid is definitely like the. If you know, you know.
Yeah, they're, they're so super small, like, you know, but they, they just absolutely have decided that this ultralight space is the space that they're going to be in.
And you know, the fabric innovation, the, the, the fit innovation, you know, it's a lot of those products are ones that require a bit of a, of a high knowledge base, I think, to be able to use successfully. Like, it's not going to be products that are necessarily perfect for everyone.
I mean, you know, you look at, you look at quilts that are, that are pretty trim and they require, you know, understanding of how to be able to use a quilt and not be cold. And I think that that's the cool thing is that ultralight can be made more ultralight when you know what you're doing right.
And when your gear is really working together as a system. And I think a lot of the stuff that Timbermaid makes really allows people to push the boundaries of ultralight when they know what they're doing.
Justin Housman
00:51:42.812 - 00:52:01.184
It's also not that expensive. I mean, compare comparatively. I mean, 3, 400 bucks for like a really well made quilt. That's like a money shaped quilt.
I mean, that' not that much more than competitive or something from like Big Agnes or whatever. I mean like it's, it's not like it's oh, $1,000 a backpack or I Mean, that's the, you know what I.
Lloyd Vogel
00:52:01.192 - 00:52:06.720
Mean, that is like, you know, the benefit of a purely D2C model, you know.
Colin True
00:52:06.840 - 00:52:07.216
Right.
Lloyd Vogel
00:52:07.288 - 00:52:52.846
I think that is a thing of, you know, a lot of, I don't know as much as like people gripe about all the middleman cutting things up.
But I mean if, if, if Timber Made really wanted to scale and grow beyond being a company that has a 14 to 16 week lead time, there would need to be, you know, he'd probably have to adjust what his margins would be, he'd have to restructure and rethink how he wanted to do that.
But I think there is a fairly large subset of, of, of cottage industry ultralight brands from the Mountain Laurel Designs to the Nunnatech that, you know, they're able to sit there and say, well actually this is the size company that we're at and that's fine and growth isn't really a priority. So we're fine with this strong D2C model. This is where we're going to hang out. And this is essentially a lifestyle company.
And, and that's kind of refreshing, honestly.
Colin True
00:52:52.958 - 00:53:50.230
No, I think this is why it's interesting what you do Lloyd, and what kind of the value like a garage gear to high brings to highlight some of these brands. Because that is something that I don't know if the industry has really gotten past.
I mean you come out of the 90s and 2000s and it's the who's going to be the next billion dollar brand and everyone's like starting a brand to be acquired and you kind of realize that by 2010 or so, like I think we got all the billion dollar brands we're probably going to have, you know, like there's a handful, we can sustain that, that. And so if there's a where's the expectation? Change your, adjust your expectations, right?
It's like, well, I'm going to start a brand, I want to make a living off of that brand. How do I do that? And maybe that is where D2C can work out.
If you want to scale and try and be competitive with the big guys, you're gonna have to do things differently. But you're gonna bring a whole host of other problems that come with that. And it's really a matter of like what do you want your brand to be?
And it sounds like you know, 250 plus brands.
I know you have much bigger brands on the website, but it's like it sounds like that is kind of almost the ethos of what runs through Garage Growing gear is. It's like, no, these are just people kind of know what their brand is and what they want to be.
Lloyd Vogel
00:53:50.530 - 00:54:36.376
Totally. I mean, we talk about that a lot of like, what is growth for growth's sake? Like, growth has to come with a why. Yeah, like, why are you growing?
And for us, like, we, we're still growing. We want to keep growing because as we grow, we become a larger platform to be able to amplify small brands. That is our.
Why is our brands get more out of Garage Grown when we are a bigger brand platform. And that's, that's important to us.
And we feel honestly like an obligation to be able to keep growing because I think without us, a lot of spots in the industry are not getting the type of attention that, that they need to.
But for a lot of brands, like, you know, do you want your life to be more complicated as a $5 million company or are you able to see your kids and, you know, make a decent living as a $1 million company? And like, what are your objectives with your brand?
Colin True
00:54:36.448 - 00:54:36.776
Sure.
Lloyd Vogel
00:54:36.848 - 00:54:50.166
And I think, you know, we have a lot of brands in the, in, in our little subsection of the industry. You know, we have no billion dollar brands on, on, on Garage Grown.
It's, I mean, well, I don't know, me and Black diamond, they're not a billion dollars.
Colin True
00:54:50.198 - 00:54:53.382
They're not a billion dollar. They would like to be.
Lloyd Vogel
00:54:53.566 - 00:55:24.274
Yeah, but you know, we have a couple brands on our site that kind of fill product gaps for us, but, you know, yeah, we don't. There's no brands coming out of the cottage industry that are, you know, big brands in our space are brands that are over 10 million do.
And there's only a handful of those that have, have really kind of come out of that. So maybe that's a different segment.
The, the, you know, bigger ultralight brands that have, you know, left the, left the garage and gone to main stage.
Justin Housman
00:55:24.322 - 00:55:26.162
Left the garage. I like it.
Lloyd Vogel
00:55:26.346 - 00:55:28.190
Yeah. The hyper lights of the world.
Justin Housman
00:55:28.650 - 00:56:06.222
Before we started this. I kind of, you know, keep in mind, I'm a little bit less involved in the gear game than I was, you know, a year or so ago. All right. A lot less.
I'm not like scouring brands as much as I used to. I'm not getting, you know, PR as as much as I used to.
And if you, if, if you listen to the show and you hear about Garage Grown Gear and you think, you know, whatever, like ultralight, the. I, I guess what I'm, what I'm trying to say is like, in the past, I feel like these were often junky. Not junky, clunky, like, not super slick.
And like, all of these br. Like, maybe you pick the five coolest ones you guys have, but these all look badass. Like, they're. They're, like, stuff you'd be proud to have.
Lloyd Vogel
00:56:06.246 - 00:56:06.430
The.
Justin Housman
00:56:06.470 - 00:56:38.178
The design is really cool. Even the, like, the web pages are really cool. Like, it has a very modern, modern, clean aesthetic.
It's not like some dude making, like, hemp sleeping bags in the back of his car or whatever. Like, kind of 90s level, like, hip, hippie vibe stuff.
This is all very clean and very cool and stuff that you would probably really appreciate having. So, yeah, I'm gonna spend more time on ggg, just kind of looking for some of these brands because, I mean, I.
I again, I heard of Igneous, but only because I live in the Bay Area, but other than that, I never heard of any of these. So now I want to find the other, like, 195 that we didn't talk about today.
Colin True
00:56:38.314 - 00:56:51.550
Well, the funny part, too, about this was Lloyd like, is I. Originally we were like, yeah, what do you want to talk about? What should we talk about on the show?
And I'm like, you know, as a response to the tariff thing, let's talk about the US Made brands that are already here. What do you think? Justin's like, I think we'd struggle to come up with five or 10. I'm like, hold on.
Justin Housman
00:56:54.250 - 00:56:57.378
Yeah, like, I would like the first one. Like, I'm like, well, leather Moon.
Colin True
00:56:57.474 - 00:56:58.750
You're right. I mean, I would.
Justin Housman
00:56:59.530 - 00:57:11.910
Danner make some other boots here, you know, like, some of that. The only one I could think of that would be. That would even have any kind of cool cache would be like, EULA packs, right?
But that's the only one I can think of. I don't even know if they're considered cool anymore. So.
Colin True
00:57:11.950 - 00:57:12.550
Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:57:12.710 - 00:57:13.718
All right, I gotta bounce.
Colin True
00:57:13.814 - 00:57:14.454
All right, man.
Justin Housman
00:57:14.542 - 00:57:16.374
Lloyd is great meeting you. Thanks for coming on.
Lloyd Vogel
00:57:16.462 - 00:57:17.398
So good to meet you.
Colin True
00:57:17.454 - 00:57:19.366
All right, it's time for the party shot.
FITS!
00:57:19.558 - 00:57:22.010
It's time for a party shot.
Colin True
00:57:23.550 - 00:57:25.370
Do you have a party shot, Lloyd?
Lloyd Vogel
00:57:25.950 - 00:57:29.104
I mean, I can always ramble about things, you know?
Colin True
00:57:29.142 - 00:57:32.108
Know, that's always. You always get a little rambling.
Lloyd Vogel
00:57:32.284 - 00:57:40.204
How can I not have parting shots based on everything that's happening in the world right now? You know, I would always have to be, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Colin True
00:57:40.252 - 00:57:50.092
Well, think about it. But I do need to. I need to eat a little crow today, Lloyd.
I need to eat a little crow in my parting shot for today, because last week, for my parting shot, I took aim at Lems.
Justin Housman
00:57:50.236 - 00:57:50.652
Are you.
Colin True
00:57:50.676 - 00:57:53.372
Are you a Lem's fan? Are you a. Do you have any. Have any lems?
Lloyd Vogel
00:57:53.516 - 00:57:56.924
I used to have a pair of Lem of Lem's boots back in the day. Yeah.
Colin True
00:57:56.972 - 00:58:21.300
So they're footwear brand. They recently launched what they call, what they're calling the Switchback Sandal.
And I took a shot at them because that shoe looks an awful lot like my favorite. Like a shoe from my favorite footwear brand ever, which is Bedrock.
And seeing the Switchback sandal resulted in me getting emotional, I'll admit, because I thought they were coming for something I love and that I am protective of. Bedrock is a pretty small brand. They probably fit in on your list. Oh, they're made in the usa, too, so they definitely would fit in on.
Lloyd Vogel
00:58:22.000 - 00:58:23.624
We've been trying to work with for years.
Colin True
00:58:23.712 - 00:59:07.312
Right. Well, and that kind of leads into kind of what I'm getting at. So they, you know, they. They're pretty small, as far as I can tell.
They don't make a ton of different styles. Lemz has a broader range, so it felt kind of like Lem's sort of posting up on Bedrock's corner. And I.
I reacted a little poorly to that because this week I got an email from the founder of Lemz, a super nice guy named Andrew, who has chose. Who chose not to completely eviscerate me.
He definitely had some choice words, but he also told me how he and his wife are fans of Bedrock, and that there's some legit differences between the Bedrock Karen and the Lem Switchback. And if you go look at their website, you will see, yes, there are indeed differences between the two.
But that's not why I'm backing off my, you know, hey, off Lem's parting shot, which is what I'm doing. I am backing off of that. I'm. I'm. I'm.
Lloyd Vogel
00:59:07.376 - 00:59:07.984
I'm roll.
Colin True
00:59:08.032 - 01:00:12.574
I'm walking that back, much like Rei walked back their endorsement of Doug Burgum today. It's because this ev encounter made me realize that my stance on this makes me a hypocrite. Right.
Because despite the differences, the two shoes look similar. They do. You look at it. It. It speaks to me like a Bedrock does when you look at the Lem shoe.
And if this were a case of pretty much any other two brands, I would be there with a tub of pop popcorn going, full Godzilla versus the Titans. Ken Watanabe going, let them Fight mode. I would be right there going, yes. Who's gonna win? I would be so into it.
Like, all right, man, you know, hey, Bedrock had your shot. Now someone else saw what you've been doing, and they're coming for you. What are you gonna do?
But because it was Bedrock, my emotions got the best of me. So I'm walking it back. Lemz is sending Justin and I each a pair of switchbacks so we can judge the shoe on its own merit. Thank you, Andrew, for that.
So. But I do wanna say to everyone, Lemz is not lame. They called me out, and they were right to do so.
So I suppose my parting shot today is, for me, this can't. This can't be the rock fight without me admitting that I'm wrong at times. And I got this one wrong. I should have.
I should have gone a little deeper into it before I knee jerked and was critical of Lem's. So that's my parting shot.
Lloyd Vogel
01:00:12.622 - 01:01:00.188
I mean, Colin, not to. Not to, you know, force myself to have a reneging on something I say here in the future.
But I mean, Bedrock blazed a trail for products like this to be able to exist. They did, like, Bedrock created. I mean, there's. There's other sandal makers in this. In the.
The game, but this particular style and look is something that is credited to Bedrock. So regardless if. If you know this is a ripoff of. Of Bedrock or not, it's definitely riding the coattails of a design style that.
And it's gonna profit off of the market that Bedrock created. So regardless of.
Colin True
01:01:00.244 - 01:02:22.404
Yeah, no, no, you're. You're not wrong. And I think that's kind of why I'm backing off my. Because that's. I'm sort of a.
Hey, like, you know, Bedrock's had a 10 year Runway on this, right? They've been around since, like, 2011, I think longer than 10 years.
So it's kind of like, hey, you know, and it's kind of surprising to me that someone hasn't done this sooner, if I'm being honest, because the design just makes sense. And I look back on producer Dave is a huge Teva guy, right? He. Teva was a.
A big part of his early part of his career, and he always gets really frustrated that they kind of get left out of the conversation. Conversation. I'm like, yeah, because they. They went from we did something new and different to everyone's knocking us off in about 10 seconds.
And I kind of like. And that's just the way it goes sometimes. So you know, if I want to see what the lemons are all about, I'm gonna give an honest review of them.
And if, and if I like them, I'm gonna have to sort of own that. Hey, man, this is good. And, and look, maybe it'll end up feeling really, really different than my, my Karen pros, but I, you know, I just was.
I expect a little more of myself that I should have. I should have dug in a little deeper is what I'm per se. So that's my parting shot. All right, that's the show for today, everybody.
We want your emails. Send them to myrockflightgmail.com. the Rock Fight is a production of Rock Fight LOC for Justin Houseman and Lloyd Vogel.
Thanks for sitting in the day, buddy. I'm Colin True. Thanks for listening and like always, Chris Demaikz is here to sing the rock fight fight song. We'll see you next time, rock fighters.
Chris DeMakes
01:02:22.452 - 01:02:52.164
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight welcome to the rock fight where we speak our truth Slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree we talk about human powered outdoor activities and big bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture music, the latest movie reviews, ideas.
FITS!
01:02:52.212 - 01:02:54.702
That aim for the this is where.
Chris DeMakes
01:02:54.726 - 01:03:17.750
We speak our truth this is where we speak our truth.
Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight welcome to the rock flight Rock fight Rock fight welcome to the rock flight Rock flight Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Rock fight Welcome to the rock fight Rock fight Rock fight.