Today on THE ROCK FIGHT it's time for the pairings that matter most... GEAR & BEER!
Justin has been surfing in Feral wetsuits, a boutique wetsuit brand from the Bay Area for years while Colin just had his first experience trying them out. Today it's all about the wetsuit category and what makes Feral stand apart from a material and design point of view.
Then 10 Barrel Brewing month continues as the boys crack open a can of All Ways Down IPA. The perfect pairing after a long day in the water wearing your Feral wetsuit.
Because that's what you get here on Gear & Beer... the pairings that matter most!
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Episode Transcript
Colin (00:08):
Welcome to the Rock Bite where we speak our truth, slays sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head, and today we are back with another piece of gear and another beer that's right at your weekly dose of gear and beer. I'm Colin True. I spent over 20 years working for brands and makers in the outdoor industry.
Justin (00:29):
And I'm Justin Housman. I'm a journalist and professional gear reviewer, senior editor at Adventure Journal and also Certified Beer Expert.
Colin (00:39):
I'm the certified beer expert and no, you're not a executive senior editor at Super Adventure Journal.
Justin (00:47):
Ah, that could be. It's possible. Yeah, that'd be a good name for another magazine.
Colin (00:51):
It's just like Adventure Journal only
Justin (00:52):
With a cake. It's bigger. It has a cake.
Colin (00:55):
Today we will be reviewing, we'll first be reviewing a piece of gear the way you would expect gear to be reviewed on the rock fight. We don't talk about stack height geometry or with underfoot. We talk about the experience, our likes and our dislikes. And then we take that piece of gear and pair it with the perfect post activity beverage because Justin, he's a cerone, like he said, he's a certified beer expert and you can look it up. It is indeed a real thing. The bottom line is here's where you'll get the pairings that matter most. Gear and beer. And Justin, what gear and what beer are we reviewing today?
Justin (01:30):
So today we're talking about feral wetsuits. Summertime is coming up. Colin got himself a 3, 2, 3 millimeters in the body area and two millimeters in the arms and legs. That's what that means. By the way, in case you didn't know. And 10 Barrel. We're continuing our 10 barrel series with Always Down, which is a, what are they calling that? Is that a double IPA?
Colin (01:53):
It's got to be, it's 9.0,
Justin (01:54):
9.0. That's a lot of numbers. That's a lot of
Colin (01:57):
Alcohol numbers. You might hear us die today folks. That might happen. Well,
Justin (02:00):
We're not going to drink the whole beers on the air, are we? Now we got to go pick up our kids after this. Yeah,
Colin (02:05):
Driving the dew.
Justin (02:05):
This is our third week of 10 barrel beers. We started with the cloud mentality, which we adored, and then last week we did the apocalypse, which we also really liked. And this week it's always down, which leaves say three plus. Yeah, it's one more to go next week. I'm not going to read the last line that Colin wrote because I don't like that word. Colin, I
Colin (02:25):
Wanted to see if you were like Ron Burgundy, just read whatever's on
Justin (02:28):
The tele. No, no. I am able to look ahead as I'm reading. I'm not reading that. I'm not reading that. But congratulations on spelling it correctly.
Colin (02:35):
Before we get into our feral review of Pharaoh Wetsuits, a couple of housekeeping items. First we want you to sign up for Rock Fights newsletter. Why? Because we think you'll like it. It's the kind of email you want to receive and you won't want to immediately unsubscribe from. Second to all of our new listeners, welcome to the Rock Fight End of Gear and Beer. Please click that follow button on Apple Podcast or Spotify or whatever app you are listening to us on.
Justin (02:58):
Lastly, do you want to tell us about your favorite gear and beer? We want to hear from you. We really do. Honestly, please do send us if there's gear that you want to check out that you want our take on or beer that you would like our take on, please, please send us a email or hit us up on Instagram or LinkedIn or whatever. Send your suggestions and feedback to My rock fight@gmail.com. Alright man, let's get into the gear for real. You want me to put a wetsuit on? Yeah, let's do it. I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. It'd be so hot. So let's dive in here. So Feral wetsuits is, I guess you would call them like a boutique wetsuit brand if you're a hardcore surfer and I hope there's some hardcore surfers listening to the rock fight.
(03:42):
You will know, but if you're not, you probably won't. They're not one of the big three, which is like Rip Curl, Billabong and Quicksilver, but they're way better than all those other wetsuit brands. Ferrell was started by a couple guys in the Bay Area. So full disclosure here. Collin's actually going to take the lead on his thoughts on the suit because I'm really good friends with one of the owners. Alex and I wear exclusively feral wetsuits, but that's kind of why he's wearing one. I wouldn't stop. I wouldn't stop talking about them. I would not shut up about them, but I don't think that's not much with your friend. You wouldn't wear it if you didn't like it. Very good point. That is absolutely true. You're like, my friend owns this brand, he's really cool, but the Wes are garbage. I mean that's totally true.
(04:24):
That would actually be the case, but they're not. And that's all I've worn for years and most of my friends all wear them as well. They're pretty popular in the Bay Area, but it was started by a couple of guys who are from the Bay Area. They had regular jobs and have surfed their whole lives and then just decided they didn't like their regular jobs and they were going to try to do a wetsuit company. And so they started out, I mean they haven't really changed. I mean they don't really do any marketing, it's just the two of 'em. They don't have any staff or anything. There's some people that work at a distribution center that box up the suits and they deal with them sometimes, but they don't work exclusively for feral. They work for whoever else is getting stuff at that distribution center.
(05:00):
So that's it. And they've grown really well through word of mouth and mostly that I think some of, I think Surf line and maybe Stab Magazine, I guess I've written reviews for them before at Surfer Magazine back in the day. So other than that though, that's pretty much word of mouth and if you come to the Bay Area and you paddle out anywhere, you're going to be dominated by people in feral wetsuits. So they have a big following here and they are almost entirely direct to consumer, which means they can sell 'em for a little bit cheaper. They are in a few stores, but not many. And that's kind of by design, although they're not like Antis surf shop or anything like that. It's a lot cheaper to just sell it direct to you. But their whole deal better margins for them and their whole deal is they make, they use Yamamoto neoprene, I think it's called Yamamoto number 39, which is just the particular kind of neoprene that they use, which is a Japanese neoprene that is so good and the best sweatsuits in the world come with that and its whole thing is that it's way more water phobic, is that the right word?
(06:04):
Permeable
Colin (06:04):
Impermeable.
Justin (06:05):
Impermeable, yeah. Yeah. And so if you go to buy a wetsuit today and you go grab NXL or a Billabong or something, nine times out of 10 it's going to be, the inside of the suit is going to have a bunch of random fibrous stuff that's going to feel really good and it's probably bright orange and it's probably called infra thermal bomb nuclear technology heating element something or other. And it's going to be some kind of fibrous material that they claim will keep you warmer, but it doesn't, I mean really the only thing in a wetsuit that keeps you warm is the neoprene. And so they use super high quality neoprene. They don't need any fancy liners, so the suits are really light when you pick one up compared to a big brand, you'd be shocked at how much lighter they are. They're usually a little bit thinner and they last forever. I still have the first one I got from them seven or eight years ago, and I wore it the other day without even realizing it that it was the original one until I saw the logo. But they're very stripped down. They're all black, they have a little feral logo on it. That's it. Real simple, really well made. And they're real like a true surfers wetsuit. There's no gimmicks, there's no bullshit. They're just a great wetsuit for a pretty good price that will last you full forever and that's their whole deal.
Colin (07:15):
Yeah, the Yamamoto neoprene was interesting learning about, because there's been a lot of buzz about Ulix, which is another sort of greener wetsuit material that Patagonia's made famous, which comes, which is derived from the ulix tree, right? Isn't that what it is? It's an actual, it's a
Justin (07:30):
Plant. The tree's not called Uex. The brand is, it's like, there you go. I forget it's, it used to be from a plant that you grew. It's a plant like a plant, but now it's a tree and I forget what the tree's
Colin (07:40):
Called, which is great. And that's sustainable too. Now Yamamoto neoprene is more sustainable than traditional neoprene, which comes from petroleum, but Yamamoto, neoprene comes from limestone. It doesn't get rated as highly because limestone is finite versus UX can be what the plant that we get UX that can be replanted. You can neo plant it and grow more of it if you want to. However, Yamamoto neoprene still better for the earth than you would get from regular neoprene, which is all petroleum based. I think the age thing about wetsuits in general, I mean is there a sort of maybe less understood product by people who don't wear them all the time? That is as simple as a wetsuit. I mean, how many times do you talk to somebody? Do you wear swim trunks under it? Do what do you wear underneath it? It's almost like bike shorts in a way of like, no, the best way to wear a wetsuit is just to strip naked and put it on. I mean, that's how you wear a wetsuit.
Justin (08:32):
I forgot about that. Yeah, I guess. Well, women will often wear bikinis under a wetsuit, a bikini
Colin (08:36):
Top. Yeah.
Justin (08:37):
And there are probably very good reasons for that. I've never really thought about it, but no, I mean it's funny. Back in the olden days you always had to wear a rash guard under a wetsuit. I mean, rash guards are called that theoretically because you wear them when you're wearing trunks and you don't want to get your chest all rashed, your chest all rashed up. But we always used to have to wear rash under wetsuits because a long time ago you always get rashes in your armpits and stuff like that. But wetsuits that come a really long way, they're lined with a very thin jersey, which is a really soft against your skin, which is really nice. But yeah, it's so simple. You just throw 'em on, you're naked under there and it feels fantastic. They feel really good.
Colin (09:12):
It's why Keanu Reeves in point break looks like he's surfing in an Ascot because he has that rash guard underneath the suit. It funny, it's very 1991. I
Justin (09:19):
Could see that you had to have those I hadn't thought about in years or in years. I hadn't thought, well, yeah, probably haven't thought about them in years, but now I'm just picturing I'd have these stinky girls rash guards just draped in my shower all the time in the nineties. By the way, before we go any further, I don't know that is all Yamamoto made with limestone. I don't know that.
Colin (09:40):
That's what I found. Okay.
Justin (09:42):
I think that's true. I just wasn't sure. I assume that's the case, but I honestly wasn't sure. I've never dug way into Yamamoto. Well,
Colin (09:51):
I knew it was better than regular neoprene but not as good as ulix. And the more I dug in it kept finding things saying, yeah, it's made from limestone. And the reason why that's not as good as ulix is because limestone is ing
Justin (10:01):
Well, it's also, it's not even so much, I don't even think that's really what this, I mean they wouldn't build themselves as sustainable, but the real, if you're going to try to think about it that way, the real benefit is that they just last a long time. I don't surf nearly as much as I used to, but most of my life I surfed every day and living right by the beach, you'd often surf twice a day. In my early twenties, I'd surf three times a day. That's pretty common. And my wetsuits, big brands, big expensive, top of the line wetsuits. They would rarely last a year. Very rarely before the tape that covers the seams would start to come off. That's usually what would happen first. Or they would just kind of deam and they would separate. But you always had to get a new wetsuit every year. Always. But these last so long, I mean, I've had some of the parts of the tape come off on some of the ferals I've had, you would expect. But like I said, that first one still looks brand new. Lord incredible. I've That's super incredible. I mean there's very few things
Colin (10:59):
Like that. A lot of lawsuits, we're going to get into it a second are, I want to say they're disposable, but with regular use will not last a long time. Well,
Justin (11:06):
Plus if you pulled out an O'Neill from seven years ago, it would look ridiculous because so many other wetsuit brands, there's just so much crap going on and it would look dated and weird, but they look exactly the same. They change the color of the logo and very minor things like the zipper will be different or something like that. Or the zipper pole itself might look different, but that's it. Yeah,
Colin (11:25):
But that's just an improvement to design, not like an aesthetic point of view you're describing on
Justin (11:29):
Very simple, very, very simple.
Colin (11:31):
So not to pump my own tires, but I think I am kind of a good candidate for this review because I've only been surfing for eight years. And even then been,
(11:39):
Yeah, I was trying to remember, it was like, I think it was the first time I went surfing was summer of 2016. We were in Panama and I took a lesson. So actually the first time I went surfing I didn't even have to wear a wetsuit, which was kind of cool. But over the course of eight years, it's been fits and starts get to go when I can go. And with kids and lifestyle, I don't surf that consistently as consistently as I should if I actually want to become a decent surfer. But I've had a variety of wetsuit experiences. And I think when you're talking about feral, you mentioned that this is a surfer's wetsuit, and now having surfed in this, if you would said this to me before, I probably wouldn't have understood what you meant. But now having tried the product, I get what you mean.
(12:12):
And if you're somebody who's really looking to just start surfing and you're listening to this podcast, I would say you could investigate Pharaoh, but here's why Justin called it a surfer's wetsuit. So my first suit was a Patagonia R three, which is a ulix and also a warm wetsuit, and you kind of need the jaws of life to get in and out of that suit. Really, really tough to get and out. That's one that was a problem with the Ulix. And also it's a heavier suit. I was living in Washington and I needed a warmer suit surfing up there. Then I did get an R one. Lately, my go-to especially through the winter months, is a Ula seven Cs, which is a four three. And then I also have a mule two millimeter spring suit. And my experience, especially with the vista and the mule, it's just so easy and the joy to put on and off.
(12:55):
I mean, there's plenty of times in the spring in the summer where I don't really need a wetsuit and I might just put on the spring suit anyway just because it's like it might get a little cold out there and it's as easy to put on and off versus some of the heavier suits where it's like, eh, it's kind of a hassle to get 'em on and off. But even the Vista four, three super stretchy built for you to enjoy putting the sweatsuit on, it's easy on off, all that kind of stuff. The thing about my immediate notice on the feral was I told Justin this, I went out yesterday for the first time and I thought they had sent me the wrong size. I was started getting worried. I'm like, oh shit, we're going to record a podcast this tomorrow. And maybe they sent me the wrong size because as I'm getting my foot on really tight around the wrists and ankles, and then also even when it's on, it just felt almost compressive is the word.
(13:43):
But it definitely was the right size. But it definitely didn't have that sort of nice stretchy, flowy feel like the vis or the mule that I've worn in the past have now as soon as though, and I'm like, well, lemme get in the water, see how it is. And then as soon as I was in the water and I started paddling and it was an immediate, oh, light goes on, aha moment, the way the suit is designed, the way the neoprene works, there was no resistance on my paddle stroke whatsoever. I may as well have been wearing the spring suit or frankly, even just a rash guard. It was incredible. I kept stopping and paddling and seeing am I imagining this? It actually was really impressive to me that how easy it was to paddle with the suit on. And then also just the more I was in the water and the way the suit started to kind of feel like it was conforming to my body was even more impressive.
(14:32):
Any wetsuit, even as long as it's fitting well, it should feel really snug even if it's kind of stretchy. This just had a different vibe. It literally was like a skin suit in a way. Only was like three, two, you know what I mean? It was like a thicker, I can't really even describe the feeling that I had wearing it, but it was that immediate thing of, I think I said to Justin yesterday when we were chatting about it after I went out, I remember getting my first rep real mountain bike, and it was a cross country race bike and I never had a bike like that before. And I remember getting on it and hitting, it was a rocky mountain element. And I remember pressing down on the crank and just feeling the bike, wanting to take off and go fast. And again, that aha moment of like, oh, this is what a real bike is, this is what a fast bike feels like. You kind of hear like, oh, that's a fast bike. You're like, I've ridden bikes. How much faster could a bike actually be? And then you experience what that feels like. I had a similar experience wearing the Pharaoh yesterday compared to other wetsuits I've
Justin (15:25):
Worn. And so that's entirely because of the high quality neoprene. I mean, that's what you're feeling. The word premium gets tossed around and doesn't really mean jack shit most of the time. But what you're feeling is that top of the line, you can't get better neoprene for a wetsuit that's as good as it gets. And so it feels really good against your skin. The weight feels right. The clinginess feels right. I don't have any information to back this up, but I've long assumed that a lot of the big kind of standard wetsuit makers are making wetsuits on purpose that feel good when you put them on in a dressing room. And they know that, know that if you pull on this buttery smooth wetsuit in a dressing room at a surf shop, you're going to feel like, oh my God, this is so comfortable, this is perfect. But if it's that stretchy when it's dry, that means it's going to pull itself apart
Colin (16:15):
Typically. And heavy. It could tell they hold so much more water than the Yamamoto Neo Prius.
Justin (16:20):
Exactly. And so typically anything else, any kind of comp level, high level piece of sports equipment, the super, super stretchy wetsuits where you'll see advertising campaigns where someone will stand on it with one, they'll put their foot on the arm and pull the whole wetsuit over their head, that's cool, but that also means it's going to last three months. And so that's just the case that really stretch knee brain doesn't last that long. And so it's usually cheaper. But the cool thing about the ferals is that they're so much lighter because they don't have all the extra crap on the inside. They don't have an extra fuzzy lining that doesn't do anything, and that makes 'em heavy and weighs them down and gets waterlogged. So even they might not be as wow stretchy when you're not wearing it, but once you're actually surfing and you're like, oh yeah, this is made for surfing. It's not made for trying on in a dressing room, it's made to actually surf.
Colin (17:15):
I'd say if it's 415 bucks. So it's about twice the cost of a typical suit. I mean, he might be able to find some
Justin (17:20):
Even cheaper suit that price, the cost of a cheap suit. But I mean most good suits are going to be at least three 50 minimum
Colin (17:26):
When you're comparing it to the Patagonia and stuff like that. That's a good point. But if you're considering a wetsuit and you're getting sucked in by the O'Neills or the Quicksilvers that are like, oh look, it's on Sierra's website for 99 bucks. If you surf with any regularity, even if it's a couple of times a year, this is a worthy investment. If you're literally, I don't know if I'll ever surf again, but I just kind of wanted a wetsuit then. Great. Buy the a hundred dollars wetsuit. Doesn't matter. Yeah,
Justin (17:53):
That's true.
Colin (17:54):
I can't imagine now going back, having now put this on and trying to surf in something else, it would bother the hell out of me.
Justin (18:00):
Yeah, I mean if you are even reasonably convinced that you're going to try surfing more than once, I would definitely spend the money on a better one. Also, I wear mine, I'll wear one to body surf. I'll wear one to play in the water with my kids. I don't always have to be surfing to wear it. So there's other obligations for it. Sometimes if I go stand up paddling in the wintertime, yeah. But I mean there's something to be said if you throw out the concept of sustainability and buying things that last. There is something to be said for buying a hundred dollars shitty ass wetsuit on Amazon if you just want to try surfing for the day. But again, if it's something that you feel like you're going to want to get into, there's really nothing more important if you live in a cold water environment than a good wetsuit. I mean it's like boots for hiking or something. That's the one thing you need to spend. You should spend more money on your wetsuit probably than a surfboard if you're just starting out because any float you, but if you're not comfortable in the water, you're not going to enjoy yourself.
Colin (18:58):
Bottom line is that cheap. The wetsuit, like you said, you have your first feral, which if it was anything else, you definitely wouldn't have your first one way way. I still have. Yeah, right.
Justin (19:10):
I think I may have gotten to two years on some of my older wetsuits, but even my boots and maybe this, what we're getting at for most of my hiking stuff is less than eight years old. It wears out, but these don't, at least not for me.
Colin (19:25):
So I did want to look into the category. I was thinking about that and all the brands you mentioned, and I think I mentioned a couple other ones. So I did find a website that said that there are 97 surfing wetsuit brands globally.
Justin (19:35):
Yeah. Alright.
Colin (19:36):
Like top 10. This is the top 10. And it was only one I couldn't remember. Didn't recognize though. O'Neill number one then Rip Curl slash Roxy. Actually I think that they're not together. Is Rip Curl and Roxy still together anymore? I know that the Roxy was
Justin (19:48):
Quicksilver. Roxy was always a Quicksilver imprint. That's right, that's right. But I don't know much about,
Colin (19:53):
Yeah, I'm not sure either anymore. But then Billabong, Patagonia, Quicksilver, Xcel, body Glove, Hurley, Volcom and Gould. Do you know
Justin (20:00):
Gould? It's Gul. Yeah, they've been around. They've been around for a long time.
Colin (20:03):
Okay.
Justin (20:04):
I mean that thing is with direct to consumer, there's been a big rise in brands.
Colin (20:09):
Well the thing is mean you say 97 brands and I mean I guess it doesn't sound like a lot. I guess it is a lot. I mean because why couldn't we just have a handful that global distribution. But this is one of those products where even the cheap one, unless you're doing what you described when you were surfing the hardest. If all I had was my seven Cs, four, three, the amount I'm surfing right now, that thing's going to last me a long, long time.
Justin (20:29):
Well that's for sure true. Well if you keep it in good shape, that's thing I
Colin (20:34):
Always rin it off afterwards, hang it up the dry, all that kind of stuff.
Justin (20:36):
That's the other thing that's nice about the higher quality neoprene. It's not like it's finicky. You can probably get away with less maintenance on a feral than you would on an Excel in my experience. But I'm also meticulous about cleaning my wetsuits, which is strange cause I'm not like that by anything else.
Colin (20:52):
But this is an odd category where even if there was like 200 brands, it's all kind of making the same thing. And if somebody owns one of these, I mean the turnover's pretty low for most people on a wetsuit and probably the ability to pass it on to somebody else or whatever have it continue the life of it is pretty high. Not like if you got a pair of running shoes, even if you didn't wear them a lot, a few years later you might be like, eh, these are out of style
Justin (21:16):
Or whatever sell. I've sold used wetsuits. There's a small market for used wetsuits. There definitely is.
Colin (21:21):
Alright, so we got to rate the feral. So actually you go first. I mean you've been surfing these things a long time. What would you rate Ferrell's wetsuits? Are you going to go write immediate 10?
Justin (21:31):
I don't know. I'd
Colin (21:33):
Be back to back tens for you.
Justin (21:34):
No, no. I mean I think there's probably some little improvements that could be made right
Colin (21:39):
Now. His buddy Alex's, the image of Alex's face is hovering right in front of you. Now you're feeling guilty. Not at
Justin (21:44):
All. I don't get any money from them if I work for there. I'm sure. I mean, I don't know. There's little things I don't, little things I might change on the fit on. Some of them made. I wish. I kind of wish they had different colors. I don't necessarily love all black wetsuits. But the other thing that's cool is they make weird thicknesses. They make a two millimeter full, which is wild. Nobody does that.
Colin (22:11):
Such a great idea, especially for pansies down here in Southern California. Great. Well it's also, so
Justin (22:15):
I might take that to Hawaii because surfing in board shorts looks great and it is great if you do it every day of your life, but nothing will chafe you faster than raw skin on salty surfboard with wax on it. It will tear you up. So will the reef. So a nice two mil wetsuit, I would totally pack a two mil full arms and full leg wetsuit well as discuss
Colin (22:42):
Even in Hawaii in the winter. And you're very white. So
Justin (22:45):
Yeah, so it's nice. But they also, they make my favorite suit of all time, which is a hooded three, which is a hooded three mil. So it's a three three. So usually when you see a wetsuit and it's like a four three or a 5 4 90 9% of the time, that means the body, the core part of the suit is going to be the bigger number. That's where it's thicker. And then in the arms and legs it'll be a little bit thinner, but they make a three three, which is three mil of the brain, the whole weight with a hood on it. And it is absurdly cool. I can wear that because I'm lived here by whole, I've lived north of Santa Barbara my whole life. I wear that in the winter. I wear that all year long and it's fantastic and it's thinner than a four three and it feels really good.
(23:23):
But you can wear it from 58, you wear it from 55 degrees to 60 degrees, which is, that doesn't sound like much. That's a giant swing in water temperature, warmth, 60 year like oh I could probably do this in trunks 55. You're like, I'm never getting in the ocean again. It's true actually. It's weird how you wouldn't think that would be that big of a difference. But yeah, so that's the other cool thing about them is make suits of varying thicknesses that that's just a really thoughtful thing to do that Billabong isn't going to do that. I mean, I dunno, maybe Billabong makes a full too, but I doubt
Colin (23:54):
It. You're stalling. You're stalling.
Justin (23:56):
Oh yeah, sorry, the rating. Let's give 'em a nine. I mean it's a great wetsuit. I've never had a better one and I really mean that, but I'm sure there's improvements that could be made. Yeah, I'd say a nine.
Colin (24:08):
I was actually thinking 8.9. So it's funny that we're pretty close. I think that's mostly because I'm so high on how different it is right now, especially in my surfing career and the other wetsuits I've worn. My only other sort of the only two, well I guess the Vista and the Mule compared to the Patagonia had been my kind of biggest point of differentiation. But that wasn't, it was kind of a no-brainer. Like, okay, well the Patagonia are great, they're better for the environment, but god damn, the Vista and the mule are so much more comfortable. I dunno if I want to go back to the Patagonia. No, this had that, okay, little not as easy to get in and out of the visceral the Mule, but once it's on holy shit and you feel like I feel more like a surfer and I just can't get over the design and the flexibility and the shoulders and everything else. So yeah, design you
Justin (24:50):
Always is cool. I mean a lot of people work at Rip Curl. A lot of people work at Patagonia. A lot of people work at Body Glove. A lot of people work at Quicksilver, so people need jobs, blah, blah, blah. Two people work at Feral two. So when you buy a wetsuit from feral, Alex and his partner Buzz get the money. That's it. Nobody else does. Which is pretty rad. Just it could not be less corporate.
Colin (25:13):
And selfishly I feel like it's got the little hipster thing pays off too. I know about this. I'm not going to see many feral wetsuits out there, but I got a feral, they're
Justin (25:23):
Starting to sell a lot more of them down south. I here though, so you might start seeing them more and more.
Colin (25:28):
Alright, now let's turn our attention to after the activity at the break. At the break. It's happening today, the put in the trailhead, the surf, we're going to crack open the cooler and iib a beverage. We can celebrate our wins and losses in the back country. Let's have a beer. So we just got back to the truck. We stripped off our feral wetsuit, we changed into something warm and dry. After a killer session, we opened the cooler and pull out a 10 barrel always down. Justin, why is this the pairing that matters most to the feral wetsuit?
Justin (25:58):
Well, because this is, we only have four.
Colin (26:02):
This is what we said last week.
Justin (26:03):
Well, it's still true. This one does have some snowboarding on it and Abi, I think
Colin (26:10):
It's a burly beer. It's a 9.0, right? I think it's double idea. Think this is like, man, we need to numb up a little bit. It's been a long day. We did two sessions.
Justin (26:18):
Yeah, you want one beer morning, afternoon beer. You're only going to have one beer and then pass out. You're
Colin (26:22):
Going to have one beer and pass out. Yeah, maybe we drive home first before we don't have this at the break. We go home
Justin (26:27):
First. Yeah, you good point. Yes, that's definitely, well, we probably live across the street from the beach. That's a good point because we're hardcore.
Colin (26:34):
God, we should live across the street from the beach, don't you think?
Justin (26:36):
No, I've done that. Should we buy a house? No, I've done that.
Colin (26:39):
The rock fight house.
Justin (26:40):
Well, I mean, go ahead. Yes, you should. Should we should do that. I mean, if I got to pick the beach,
Colin (26:46):
Well, if I'm buying the house, I'm picking the beach. You're moving to San Diego, buddy. That's what's happening. I'm not, it's warmer down here.
Justin (26:51):
I would just want to go on the record that if I had a free house on the beach in San Diego or my normal expensive mortgage in Marin County, far from the ocean, relatively speaking, I would choose this Marin County.
Colin (27:01):
I don't believe you.
Justin (27:02):
Well, I mean you can
Colin (27:04):
Wear bedrocks year round.
Justin (27:05):
That's true. Actually that would be kind of a hard call. Living by the beach is pretty sweet, but it also just like the entire world is right on your ass all the time. Right behind you.
Colin (27:13):
That's true. We should probably edit this out though. Other people are going to be like, these two motherfuckers are debating about these two amazing places that they live in. So let's move on.
Justin (27:21):
Good point, good point.
Colin (27:22):
Let's get into this one. Let's not dick around with this. I think we've talked about 10 Barrel. I'm sure we'll talk about 10 Barrel a little bit more, but let's get into this nine point. Let's get into this monster.
Justin (27:30):
Okay, we're open it. Ready? You ready? Yeah. Here it comes.
Colin (27:33):
Wait, wait. 3, 2, 1.
Justin (27:36):
It's reaching out. It's reaching out of the can at me. It's trying to get me, I'm afraid that this is going to taste like it is at 9% and I'm going to be like, oh shit.
Colin (27:45):
It's funny. Just smelling it. I feel like it's a little less potent as the apocalypse was. The apocalypse kind of hit you right in the nose.
Justin (27:52):
So double IPAs are going to be, it can be all over the place, but it's probably going to be malty as hell. Almost sweet tasting. I would guess almost. There's going to be so much malt in this to get to the high alcohol content. I bet it's going to be kind of chewy. Are you ready? I'm going in. Yeah, that's exactly what I expected. Yeah, that's a strong beer dude. That's a strong beer. I could not drink that whole can I don't think. Well
Colin (28:21):
The first sip actually way more mild. What's the word? I kind of expected it to smooth hit me a little
Justin (28:27):
Harder. It's smooth. It's super smooth.
Colin (28:30):
Well wait, it's warm going down though,
Justin (28:31):
Isn't it? It's super smooth. The holy shit, that's 9%. That's a lot of booze.
Colin (28:36):
Wow. But it doesn't taste when you get to the barrel age stuff and it's,
Justin (28:43):
It's close. It
Colin (28:44):
Tastes more like a liquor in a way,
Justin (28:46):
But we're not that far off. And also, to be honest, it's a, well-made beer. I mean it's really balanced. It's really smooth. I'm going to be honest, I don't understand the point of a beer like this. I really don't. A lot of people will love these beers. I get it. But
Colin (29:03):
Yeah, when would you drink this?
Justin (29:04):
I don't know. I mean honestly I'd rather have two beers than one super gnarly beer. That's always been my opinion. I mean on draft you'd probably only get eight ounces of this I would guess. Well,
Colin (29:17):
I was just about to say, so back in my drinking heyday, it was like the smallest portion you were going to was going to be a 12 ounce scan or a bottle. Otherwise you're just going to go get a pitcher, you're going to get a pint, glass, whatever. And then in the last few years, realizing as I go out to eat, like oh, you can get a 10 ounce pour, eight ounce, even for something without hike, you can get a smaller glass of it if you don't want to have a lot to drink and a lot of craft beer places. So in love with that decision a lot of times too, you're like, oh, I'm driving the family around whatever. I want to have a couple of drinks with dinner. I don't want a giant glass of beer, especially if it's something like this where I know it's going to mess me up right away. So I guess I could see if you had a smaller, like you said, an eight ounce version of this. But man, even right now my mouth is warm and I can feel my esophagus is warm.
Justin (30:02):
Right. It tastes good though. I mean it is a good beer. It tastes good. Is
Colin (30:07):
This like a holiday beer? You have this at the holiday party
Justin (30:10):
Kind of thing? Yeah, I can see that. Not a work one. I mean, so one of these is effectively having two Budweisers in a 12 ounce can, I mean basically right. And so it's like you have two of these, it's like having four, but I swear to God I could have four Budweiser and probably not even really be that buzzed. If I had two of these I'd be fucked. So I don't really understand the mask ruin your thing. That's weird. But I will say it tastes really good. It does taste pretty
Colin (30:33):
Good. It
Justin (30:33):
Taste so good. I mean they've done a good job with it, but it is a weapon. I don't know, I just can't imagine a scenario where I'm like, yeah, hand me one of those cans. I'm going to have a can of that and just have it at the campsite. I guess if I was just going to have one, I mean honestly I might. I just like having more than one.
Colin (30:50):
So we're really noticing the higher alcohol content in this versus the other couple of beers we drank from anybody, not even just 10 barrel. So what is the difference then when you get to it, like the double IPA versus the regular IPA? Where's the line you leave from one to the other and what's the process to result in the double IPA?
Justin (31:10):
Usually you stumble down drunk between one to the other is how it works normally, as far as I know, there's not an official doubling of anything. It just means it's a lot stronger. So
Colin (31:26):
The process to brew is in any different No,
Justin (31:28):
Not at all. And it doesn't necessarily mean that there's twice the hops or twice. Twice the barley. I mean I'm sure that there are beers that do that, but there's not an official, it's not like you have to do something and now it's a double IPA, but typically that's effectively what it means. So you would put in way more hops than you would normally put in and way more barley than you'd normally put in. And when there's more barley, there's more sugars for the yeast to eat and to convert to alcohol. So typically, and that's the barley content compared to the water content. So you might be thinking, well a stout is super gnarly and is really dark and that must be in a lot of barley, but it isn't always really strong and it's not about the roasting or anything like that. You can have a very clear super strong beer too. So Belgians for example, are often you'll get a double or a triple in Belgians and it's the same deal. It doesn't mean that there's three times than anything. It is just a general sort of understanding of if it's a double, it has probably way more alcohol than a single, which is hard to find Single Belgians they exist, but it's hard to find. Usually you just start with a double.
Colin (32:36):
We've talked about Belgians as a a lot last.
Justin (32:38):
We probably drink some Belgium, get Belgian. I don't drink a lot of Belgian beers. Usually the ones that we get are pretty strong and they're much more of an experienced beer. I mean Belgians, there are plenty of just affable, drinkable Belgian beers out there. But for the most part, the ones when you get excited about a Belgians, it's usually a bit stronger and it's like, oh, I'll just have one of these with dinner and that's kind of it. But yeah, we should do, they just don't lend themselves well to the outdoors often. Usually. I don't know. There's no reason why they couldn't. It's just not what I think about when I'm hot and sweaty and I've been doing something all day. I don't think now I want to double.
Colin (33:09):
I don't think I've had a ton of Belgian beers. I just feel like the ones I've had, I haven't really liked that much, but so I'd be interested in revisiting it with some knowledge on it and actually thinking about why I might like it or why I may not. But so what's the point, right, I guess of the higher alcohol, right? If you compare, okay, we, we've had three in a row now. We did the cloud mentality, the apocalypse and out this one. And I would say that this one on its own merits, it tastes good. I like the way it tastes. I could see someone valuing that sort of hard alcohol burn a little bit. However, if you still line them up, I'm going to choose the cloud mentality. And maybe on the rare occasion, the apocalypse almost every single time over, excuse me, over always down. So is it truly a subjective thing? Is it kind of bring it back to the gear point of view? Is it a line expansion thing? Well, we have these other ones where we could do this and now it's different. But I also, I'm not saying I don't like it. It does taste good. This tasted good. I've had plenty of doubles that I don't like. This one tastes good, but I don't know. What's the mentality behind creating this as part of the category? I guess
Justin (34:11):
That's a good question. I'm going to have a sip and think about it.
Colin (34:14):
Yeah, me too.
Justin (34:18):
There's a tendency, I mean I think one of the big criticisms of IPAs, generally speaking amongst the general beer, drinking public, especially amongst people who don't really think about beer, they just like to drink it, is that it is just too much. So it's too much hops, it's too much barley, it's too much often too much alcohol. It's just a big beer. But there's also obviously a huge amount of people that really like that I didn't used to IPAs. Now I love them. And so I can see how you kind of get from, okay, something like the cloud mentality is really, really good. I'd like to have more of all of that, please in the same beer. And so that's effectively what's happening.
(34:58):
It is a subjective thing. It's like some people really like that taste. I mean there's a sweetness, there's a sweetness to a higher alcohol beer that is very distinct and I think there's times where you might want to sip on a four ounce version of that if you want to get into beer and food pairings. Higher alcohol beers often start to taste better with things that wine does. So you can have a barley wine and cheese. You wouldn't normally pair beer with cheese, but you can, when you start getting into really high alcohol beers like the tens and the 12 percenters, they start to have a bit more of a sophisticated sort of flavor. So I think that that's probably part of it. It's just people really like more and there's plenty of people who want to drink a two or three nine percenters and just get wasted. I mean don't discount that There's a lot of that out there. It's not my thing, but I totally understand why it exists. But also bit to me, it's a bit of a niche thing. There are probably times in my life where I've wanted, yeah, give me that 9%. I'll try that and just really enjoy a little bit of it. But it's not nearly as often as just having a beard that I can have two of
Colin (36:02):
At risk is sort of overly praising 10 barrel. And maybe this last point I want to make, and we can get into the rating of it, but it's like I feel like we're in good hands. I feel like there was a purpose behind this beer. I'm sure there are beers out there, breweries out there. They more, I think we could get the alcohol level way up at all costs and it feels like, I bet this honestly kind of fits in against the apocalypse and the cloud mentality. It seems like it does feel like a natural progression from those other two. Now next week when we get to the juicy drama, which is a 9.6, that's probably going to be the ultimate of these four. That might be the one that maybe lets us down the most. I would
Justin (36:39):
Think maybe. Yeah. I mean judging by our willingness to deal with a high alcohol beer, yeah, I mean you'll see this a lot where a brewery will do a series like a hop series where they'll do a bunch of different beers, maybe different hops. I would've actually liked this series to all be like 6%. Let me taste all your different hop profiles and how you want to deal with them and that's cool. But where I can drink the entire beer.
Colin (37:05):
Alright, what are you going to rate it?
Justin (37:06):
I think for some reason lately I felt like it's round numbers. I feel like this is an eight. Yeah, I think that's fair. I don't know what I said about the last one, but just feels like an eight. I mean it's unquestionably good.
Colin (37:17):
Yeah, I'm trying to decide is it just my personal taste, the judging it in its own merits versus when would I drink it or how much do I want to drink it? I'm looking, looking back over my past scores right now, it's like I'm going to go 7.2 because I don't really know when I would drink it that much. Knowing where the current state of my alcohol consumption. But I really did like it and definitely it shouldn't be below a seven because it just tastes too good to be lower than that. So I'm going to go there with that.
Justin (37:42):
Love it.
Colin (37:42):
Alright, well to summarize this episode of Gear in Beer, in our gear category, we have the feral, well all the feral wetsuits were really talked about. But we talked specifically about the three two wetsuit, which Justin rated a nine and I rated a 8.9. And then when you get home from your surf session and making sure you definitely don't have to drive anywhere for the night or maybe even the next few days, the official casona that are of the rock fight suggests that you should enjoy yourself a frosty cold 10 barrel always down, which Justin rated an eight and I rated a 7.2 on the gear and beer beer scale. We did it again, we crank,
Justin (38:16):
We keep doing it. Crank out. Yeah,
Colin (38:18):
It's amazing. Amazing. We like
Justin (38:20):
Gear and we also like beer. So it does make sense. It's not like, it's like the stapler and dental surgery show. We would do way fewer of those, right?
Colin (38:32):
Whoever arts that show, probably also a serial
Justin (38:34):
Killer. Are there podcasts about staplers? Are office supplies generally speaking?
Colin (38:40):
God, there's got to
Justin (38:41):
Be right. I'd listen to it.
Colin (38:44):
I would at least try. Today
Justin (38:45):
We're going to talk about the new AMPA legal pad. So they made some changes this year. The margin line is a different color green than it used to be. And the paper stock has a little bit higher quality pulp. So we're going to test that with our Bic Streamliner three point twos and see how that feels. Tom, what do you,
Colin (39:05):
There's sustainability episode. They're like, oh, there's some new ink in the lines on the paper itself. It's a much more, it's
Justin (39:11):
25% post-consumer ink on some of these. That's the buzzword these days in office supplies.
Colin (39:16):
Alright, well that's the show for today. What did you think of this edition of Gear and Beer? Do you have a suggestion for a future edition of Gear and Beer or do you simply just like gear and beer, send an email to my rock fight@gmail.com. Let us know what you think. The rock fight is a production of rock Fight LLC for Justin Hausman. I'm Colin True. Thanks for listening here to take us out. It's Krista Makes with the Rock Fight Fight song. We'll see you next time. Rock fighters rock fight.
Chris DeMakes (39:42):
Fight the rock bike where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. We talk about human power, outdoor activities and pick bikes about topics that we find interesting. Black Five, culture, music, the latest movie reviews in for the, this is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Welcome to.