Today on the show we're reacting to breaking news coming out of the outdoor industry as Colin and outdoor industry insider Eoin Comerford give their instant reactions to the CEO shake up at REI.
Earlier today it was announced that REI CEO Eric Artz is retiring at the end of March, making way for former Nike executive Mary Beth Laughton to take the helm of the outdoor retailer. Colin & Eoin reflect on Artz's legacy as well as the road ahead for Laughton.
Check out hundreds of wildly cool products by visiting and shopping at Garage Grown Gear!
Help those who have been impacted by the Los Angeles wildfires by clicking here.
Sign up for NEWS FROM THE FRONT, Rock Fight's weekly newsletter by heading to www.rockfight.co and clicking Join The Mailing List.
Please follow and subscribe to The Rock Fight and give us a 5 star rating and a written review wherever you get your podcasts.
Want to pick a fight with The Rock Fight? Send your feedback, questions, and comments to myrockfight@gmail.com.
CLICK HERE TO LISTEN!
Episode Transcript
Colin True
00:00:00.240 - 00:02:08.166
All right, everyone, before we get started today, I need to tell you about our amazing teammates at Darby Communications.
If you run an outdoor, an endurance or an active lifestyle brand, there is no better PR or digital marketing belay partner or drinking buddy than Darby. They can help your business reach new heights. And, you know, they might just keep you from falling on your ass.
I mean, since we started working with Darby, more and more people have been reaching out to us here at the Rock Flight because of that messaging. Look, guys, if they can help us, they can help anybody. Hit them up@darbycommunications.com do it today.
Welcome to the Rock Fight, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head.
I'm Colin True, and today I'm joined by outdoor industry insider and rock bike consigliere Owen Comerford to talk about the news that broke this morning that REI CEO Eric Art is out and former Nike athletic and Sephora executive Mary Beth Lawton is in as head of outdoors largest retailer rei. We're recording this at about noon Pacific time.
News came out 9:00 here on the, on the west coast about noon east coast time that Eric Arts would be quote, retiring effective at the end in March. We didn't have an exact date, but retiring effective in March.
If any other details come out later in the day, that's why we didn't cover them here on the pod, because this is is kind of a breaking story.
But per a press release announcing the news this morning, Chris Carr, chair of the REI board of Directors, was quoted as saying, Eric has led and stabilized REI through some of the most challenging years the retail sector and our co op ever faced. REI is in a strong position today because he always kept our purpose, values and people as his North Star.
And regarding the incoming CEO Mary Beth Lawton, Carr said in the same press release, Mary Beth has the ideal experience to build on this foundation and to lead REI forward into our next chapter. The world needs a strong rei, and we are confident Mary Beth will hit the ground running. Owen, we're back here in the Rock fight.
Talking about REI again seems to be a common theme.
Eoin Comerford
00:02:08.278 - 00:02:23.654
Yeah, it's interesting. You know, I think you and I had said off mike at certain times that, you know, if this, if REI were a public company, more than likely Eric would.
Would have been out a while ago. And, and that's not to lay all of this stuff at Eric's feet. You know, obviously he's.
Colin True
00:02:23.702 - 00:02:26.630
Yeah, retiring was an interesting choice of Words. Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:02:26.670 - 00:02:27.062
Well.
Colin True
00:02:27.166 - 00:02:30.442
And you know what I wouldn't call from his perspective is he ret.
Eoin Comerford
00:02:30.606 - 00:03:06.014
I don't know. He's 56, so he's my age, so. Yeah, I don't know. Here's. Here's what I'd say. It's been a tumultuous few years at rei.
I could certainly see, you know, and from. From everything I know, and I've heard Eric is a good guy. I don't know him, but I've heard he's just. He's a good human.
But I'm sure it's been a tough, tough two years personally. So, yeah, I could see retiring. I could also see that a conversation with where they said we need to. Different directions, so don't know.
I have no intel one way or the other.
Colin True
00:03:06.102 - 00:03:13.250
So what were your overall thoughts, though? I mean, we talked about retiring, but, like, just, you know, what's next? Like, what. What. What do you see going on over there as this is unfolding?
Eoin Comerford
00:03:13.670 - 00:04:10.936
Well, I think the biggest question certainly on the minds of REI employees is what does this mean for us relative to the layoffs and all those other things? And this could go one of two ways.
So one thought process is, hey, if we're going to do big restructuring things, unpopular things, let's do all that under guy. So he takes all the arrows, and then the new person comes in as the shining knight to save the day.
So I'm hopeful for REI employees that that's the case. The alternative story would be kind of the opposite, which is to say that there's still a lot more structural change that has to happen at the co op.
Eric maybe doesn't have the appetite for it. We need to bring in somebody who will do the tough things and make the tough decisions.
So, you know, and as insiders, I think they'll probably have a sense as to which way the wind is going to blow there.
Colin True
00:04:11.008 - 00:04:34.834
Okay, so we talk about, you know, the circumstances of him leaving, whether it was voluntary, whatever. How long is a process like this playing out? Is this something that happens together, comes together pretty quickly?
I mean, I'm sure there are other people in the mix, you know, like how. You know, this isn't just a. Well, we started this earlier this week, and now Mary Beth is in and Eric is out. And did he tell them I'm retiring?
Like, how do you kind of see. How do these things sort of transpire or come about behind the scenes?
Eoin Comerford
00:04:34.962 - 00:05:18.090
Well, I think the interesting thing is that actually in the announcement, Eric is leaving at the end of March it sounds like Marybeth is starting kind of right away in a president role, and that's gonna give her basically a couple of months to get the lay of the land, to visit a bunch of stores and FCS and all these things. So it is an orderly transition, which is good for everybody, quite frankly.
That tells me that it's been a little bit in the making, you know, probably a couple of months. You know, it's quite possible that, you know, that Eric kind of got to the end of the year and said, hey, you know, I've gotten this to.
I've restabilized things, and now it's time for me to move on. Right.
Colin True
00:05:18.130 - 00:05:23.546
You know, so the rock fight did another episode about us. I'm out. You know, you got.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:23.618 - 00:06:50.936
He can only take so much. So. So I. But if I had to guess, it was relatively recent.
I'm sure, though, that there have been conversations at the board level about leadership at some point in this process. I mean, they've basically replaced almost every other executive, right, over the last three years. So the old guard is very much gone.
I think Chris Spire was the last of the, quote, unquote, the old guard that left middle of last year. Now the chief merchant over at mec, you know, and brought in just a ton of new folks, like the Cameron James from Amazon as an example.
I think a lot of people had him pegged as maybe the next CEO, given that he had gone from chief Commercial officer to take on the CEO role recently. And so that was viewed as a potential there. So, yeah, I think it's. I think it's. But I think Mary Beth is an interesting hire.
Just full disclosure, our paths have crossed in the past. We were part of a group that really was really Omnichannel, Omni retail leaders in the space.
And so we'd get together kind of once a year and talk all things Omnichannel. So very, very respected and experienced person in the space, I would say.
Colin True
00:06:51.008 - 00:07:22.880
Definitely want to talk about Mere breath in a second before let's wrap up on Eric. His time at REI spanned 12 years, total six being spent as CEO.
So most of that time that he was in the big chair was there was some sort of marketplace chaos happening. Right. I think if you look on LinkedIn, anyway, he's. End of 2019, middle of 2019.
So basically, it's been Covid and the fallout of COVID as going to be his legacy at rei. How do you think we will view his REI legacy when we look back?
Eoin Comerford
00:07:23.900 - 00:08:01.366
Well, I think it's still yet to be written. Right. The future will determine how we view the past. I will tell you, though, as being a retail CEO, living through Covid, it was exhausting.
I mean, I. I can't even. I can't even tell you just. Just the. Because, you know, for.
For so many years within the industry, I mean, it was the seasons change, but it was kind of the same stuff, same promotions. You know, you tweak this, tweak that, bring on a new brand, whatever. Right. I mean, when Covet hit, you know, one day wasn't. Was.
Was never the same as the last. There was nothing.
Colin True
00:08:01.398 - 00:08:02.022
It's out the window.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:02.086 - 00:09:06.300
Everything was out. All the rules were broken. You know, everybody was pissed off in terms of whether it's your retail employees or whatever else.
And, you know, I think, you know, Eric genuinely cares about the folks at the co op. And, you know, as a CEO, you want to do what's right for your people, but you've also got to keep the wheels on. I mean, it was brutal, quite frankly.
So. And then, you know, then there was the ups and the ups in 21 and 22 and things were great. And then the down and so. Yeah.
Ultimately, though, I think some of the longer lasting legacy elements for Eric are going to be more on the social issue side of things. He really pushed the co op forward there.
Supplier code of conduct, really leaning into sustainability in a lot of ways and other areas that maybe the co op had talked to over the years, but really were codified during his leadership.
Colin True
00:09:06.460 - 00:09:12.428
All right, well, let's transition over to Eric's successor. What do we know? You mentioned you know her, but what do we know kind of more publicly.
Eoin Comerford
00:09:12.444 - 00:09:42.458
About Mary Beth Lawton, so former director of rei.
So I think that is great from the REI perspective because you do have somebody that's coming in that actually knows more about the business than just the surface level stuff. So I think that's good and really comes from Omni Retail. Right. VP of Omni Retail at Sephora, then really lead. Athleta. Athleta. Athleta.
Well, I go at Athleta, I say Athleta. Okay. And that's what we're gonna go with. We're gonna go with Athleta. If some.
Colin True
00:09:42.514 - 00:09:43.738
By the way, let's call the whole thing off.
Eoin Comerford
00:09:43.794 - 00:09:44.330
If somebody can.
Colin True
00:09:44.370 - 00:09:44.954
Athleta.
Eoin Comerford
00:09:45.002 - 00:10:50.890
Athleta, right. Potato, potato. If somebody wants to tell us what it actually is, and then we can be corrected forever. The future forward. But I'm gonna.
We're going with Athleta anyway. So led that through some ups and Downs, quite frankly, some initial growth and then things were a little challenged there towards the end.
And then most recently head of global DTC at Nike.
So what I like about her background from rei's perspective, as opposed to maybe some of the other executives, quite frankly that they've brought in, is that she's coming from a performance background. Right. This is human powered performance. Whether it's, it's Athleta and yoga or Nike and all the things that Nike does.
So I think she understands that business. The one piece maybe that is on the other side though is that it's all sort of brand D2C stuff. Right.
There's no selling of other brands, there's no wholesale, you know, understanding that side of the business, which still is a pretty big chunk of what REI does.
Colin True
00:10:51.010 - 00:11:04.074
Yeah, I mean they're kind of, that's another thing that makes a brand like REI unique. Right. It's like they make all their own stuff, but then they also sell everybody else's stuff.
Oh and they have brick and mortar stores and they're also an E commerce platform. So it's kind of the whole ball of wax.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:04.202 - 00:11:27.586
And I think from, from an Omni Channel Omni retail perspective, that's all, you know, very much in, in, in Mary Beth's background. I think the question is given though that she doesn't have that, you know, the wholesale retail side of it.
Is that an indication that they're really looking for somebody to take the private brand piece to an even higher level of penetration to the business?
Colin True
00:11:27.738 - 00:12:06.464
So she, you mentioned she's been on the board of directors was for three years. Most of her background though, not outdoors. Right. Which is sort of a concern, a criticism that was lobbied at Eric Arts for a lot of his tenure.
Right. He's kind of the more of a retail background versus an outdoor background. However, Eric did spend six years at REI before getting the CEO gig.
So definitely was exposed to the sort of outdoor world, you know, through, through his other jobs there. Given rei's headwinds, I mean, is, is, I guess we want to say there's more of the same in terms of background in the leadership capacity.
Is that a reason for concern? You know, would you have expected if there was a change to have a more sort of outdoor industry rooted individual in that, in that chair?
Eoin Comerford
00:12:06.552 - 00:12:50.166
Certainly not based upon what, you know, how REI is hired in the recent past. But also no, because the, the cupboard was bare internally relative to, you know, long lived executives.
Again, as we said, that nobody's been there for I think more than a few years. And secondly, when you're the 800 pound gorilla in the industry, right.
Typically you're going to go out and you know, you want to, you want to find somebody that's, that's operated at the same level of scale that you have. So that really doesn't exist. Unless you're willing to go to like poach somebody from the F Corp. Or the North Face or something like that.
You're really not going to find anybody that's operated at that kind of scale within the outdoor industry.
Colin True
00:12:50.318 - 00:13:04.710
I guess last thing here, is this just the beginning of anything? Is there any concern for layoffs, other changes?
Is this a domino about to tumble or is this, you think maybe just they're making a swap and we'll see how things play out over the next few months.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:04.830 - 00:13:10.756
If I had to guess, I would say that there's going to be a time of figuring it out.
Colin True
00:13:10.828 - 00:13:11.060
Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:11.100 - 00:13:40.460
Where you get in. Most CEOs in these sort of situations, they have a 100 day plan, right. They're like, okay, here's.
I'm going to hit the ground running and these are the things I'm going to look at first. I'm going to dig into store ops. I'm going to dig into what's my merchandise pipeline, what is my really get through all of that.
And again, I think it's helpful that Eric is sticking around for a couple of months to give Mary Lou time to kind of digest all of that. And then I would hope that she will be given.
Colin True
00:13:40.580 - 00:13:41.068
Mary Beth.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:41.084 - 00:13:45.948
Sorry. Mary Beth was Mary Lou. Mary Lou.
Colin True
00:13:46.124 - 00:13:48.040
Mary Lou Ren. She's bad.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:49.860 - 00:13:51.276
But no, yeah.
Colin True
00:13:51.308 - 00:13:58.380
No, it's clearly that transition will be an important time. Right. She's so it's not, it is good that it's not just a quick, this guy's out the door and she's coming in.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:58.420 - 00:13:58.620
Right.
Colin True
00:13:58.660 - 00:13:59.532
And figure it out.
Eoin Comerford
00:13:59.556 - 00:14:35.140
And I mean, if I were in Mary Beth's shoes, my expectation is, is that as the CEO, I would have the purview to be able to course correct as needed. Right. You know, you don't want to be just a caretaker, like, hey, here's all the things we've decided to do for the next five years.
This is the direction now. Just go ahead and execute it. Right.
You know, you want to be able to come in and put your stamp on things and you know, the experience that you've built up over these years in the industry, to be able to apply that to hopefully make an impact in a positive way to the business.
Colin True
00:14:36.560 - 00:14:42.424
Well, and we need to make sure. We book her for a lot of times here on the Rock Fight to come on and talk to us about what's happening over there, right?
Eoin Comerford
00:14:42.512 - 00:14:50.712
Absolutely. I'm sure. I haven't checked my texts lately, so I'm sure it's just blowing up with. No, I mean, I would.
Colin True
00:14:50.816 - 00:14:51.384
When can I.
Eoin Comerford
00:14:51.392 - 00:15:14.660
Come on. We would. Obviously we would love to have Mary Beth definitely on, if not. Or Mary Lou Retton, too.
I mean, if she's out there, we'd love to have her on as well. Sure. She's definitely. We'd love to have Mary Beth on. I'm guessing. And you know, as much as I think we're, we're. We're kind of the shit.
I'm guessing we're not her first call, but hey.
Colin True
00:15:15.080 - 00:15:24.688
Well, Mary Beth, you're missing out on the voice of the outdoors. So come on the show. Eric Arch, too, if you want to come on and talk about what happened behind the scenes, you're always welcome.
You're all welcome here on the Rock Fight.
Eoin Comerford
00:15:24.744 - 00:15:25.648
Absolutely.
Colin True
00:15:25.824 - 00:16:08.830
All right, well, look, there's an emergency pod. We're going to wrap it up early today. I want to hit you guys up. Listening if you subscribe to the Rock Fights weekly newsletter.
If not, head over to Rockfight Co. Click join the mailing list. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast by clicking follow on whatever podcast app you are listening to us on.
Give us a five star rating when you do that as well.
And send your feedback on this and every episode of the rock fight to myrockfightmail.com and oh, and listen to Open Container, our newest other podcast that our newest podcast that launched this week. You can find that on your favorite podcast platform and the Rock Fight's a production Rock Fight LLC for Owen Comerford. I'm Colin True.
Thanks for listening. And he shows up even for emergency podcast Krista makes here. He's going to sing the Rock Fight Fight song. We'll see you next time. Rock Fighters.
Chris DeMakes
00:16:08.910 - 00:17:04.730
Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight.
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak our truth Slay sacred cows and sometimes a grand agree to disagree.
We talk about human powered outdoor activities and big bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture music, the latest movie reviews, ideas that aim for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Want to feel the Rock Fight? Rock Fight. Rock Fight.
Welcome to the Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Welcome to the Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Fight.
Eoin Comerford
00:17:07.030 - 00:17:07.670
Rock fight.