Today on the show Colin, Producer Dave, and Outdoor Industry Insider Eoin Comerford have some innovative suggestions for the outdoor industry.
Innovation in the outdoors is a misunderstood word. It's often only applied to the performance of the apparel, gear, and footwear that the industry produces. And while there will surely be advances that will improve the stuff we make the opportunity for the industry to innovate lies more within our approach to making and marketing that stuff.
On this episode we take a look at what can be learned from (gasp!) fast fashion as well as the opportunities that lie within experiential marketing. We of course wrap things up with The Parting Shot by lobbing a rock at the latest news to come out of Authentic Brands.
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Episode Transcript:
Colin True
00:00:00.400 - 00:02:50.124
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Welcome to the Rock Fight, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head.
I'm Colin True, and today my merry band of rock fighters and I have some innovative advice for the outdoor industry.
But first, come back to the Rock Fight this Wednesday where Justin Hausman and I will be talking about some of the things making news in the outdoor community.
And also come back to the show on Friday where I'll either give you an outdoor hot take or we'll go deep on a topic with one of my Rock Fight cohorts.
And lastly, it's time for you, the listener, to subscribe to this show and also to open Container, the newest podcast on the Rock Flight Podcast Network.
It's hosted by outdoor industry legend Doug Schnitzbahn, and all you need to do is tap the Follow button on whatever podcast app you're listening to right now and then also go and subscribe to news from the front Rock Fight's weekly newsletter. It comes out tomorrow. So head to Rock Fight Co and sign up for that now. And, hey, stick around. We'll be right back.
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00:02:50.172 - 00:04:00.220
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Colin True
00:04:00.370 - 00:04:18.936
And now back to the show. All right, it's Monday. That means I'm here with Owen Comerford and producer Dave.
And, guys, we have great news to open the show with today because I saw this morning that the vast majority of Tesla cybertrucks have been recalled. So karma is alive and well in 2025. Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:18.968 - 00:04:33.542
Oh, I love that. Yeah. You know, I didn't think that it was possible for somebody to come out with a vehicle that made you look more like a douchebag than the.
Than The Hummer to H2.
Colin True
00:04:33.646 - 00:04:34.006
Yep.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:34.038 - 00:04:36.822
H2. I thought. I thought we could never. We would never get.
Colin True
00:04:36.846 - 00:04:37.686
That's the pinnacle.
Eoin Comerford
00:04:37.798 - 00:05:00.364
That was the pinnacle. And then, I mean. I mean, the cybertruck just said, hold my beer. This. This is the.
I mean, I actually did just reflexively flipped off at cybertruck yesterday, and I'm like, can't help it. They might be a nice person, though, and you've got to be the better person here. But it was reflexive.
Producer Dave
00:05:00.412 - 00:05:01.240
They're not.
Colin True
00:05:03.380 - 00:05:38.542
There was. And again, like, we don't know all the cybertruck owners. Maybe there's some great people, maybe there's some lovely. Maybe there are.
But I was pulling into the ice rink. I had a game and there was a kids game going on beforehand.
And coming out of the rink, there's a parent who was just being an absolute dick to his kid. It couldn't have been more than like, couldn't have been more than 10, maybe 11.
Just, you know, berating them on the how the way they played, whatever, guess what vehicle they walked up to to get in to drive home. And I'm like, this, this is central cat. You can't make this up. Like, it's just like they didn't go to like the Toyota Camry.
They went right to the cybertruck.
Eoin Comerford
00:05:38.686 - 00:05:39.822
Doucheroo.
Colin True
00:05:39.966 - 00:05:43.230
Yup. Dave, commentary on the cybertruck.
Producer Dave
00:05:43.310 - 00:05:45.170
I, I'm speechless.
Colin True
00:05:45.990 - 00:05:50.498
No, what outdoor action figure, Rockford action figure would drive a cybertruck?
Producer Dave
00:05:50.654 - 00:05:52.506
None in our stable.
Colin True
00:05:52.618 - 00:07:09.756
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Well, I love that headline. So good luck on you Tesla. Hope it doesn't work out, but we're going to get into it though.
We have some things going on today and today's opening shot is presented by Garage Grown Gear, which is your hub for ultralight gear.
Learn more by heading to garagegrowngear.com and the crew and I, we were talking there's a fair amount of doom and gloom going on in the world right now. We talked a bit about that on last week's episode, on the Monday episode.
But today we want to offer some innovative solutions to the outdoor industry. And innovation is a word that kind of gets overused in our space and I think it's frankly deployed as a crutch by many.
And I'm not talking about performance innovations, product performance innovations.
We're talking today about how the outdoor industry can improve itself by doing things differently and maybe help solve some of its own problems along the way. And before we get into our recommendations, I want to have a quick kind of a go around the table on innovation. Right.
We've, we're probably a bit of a broken record on the pod about how we need to evolve that word, but you know, Owen, you posted on LinkedIn this week about our episode here in the Rock Flight about the state of the outdoor economy. Everyone go back and listen to that episode if you haven't yet.
And of course, there were those who commented about how outdoor brands need to get back to innovating in order to pull us out of our current situation. I mean, what, when do you think people will recognize there's not much left to innovate from a product point of view?
Eoin Comerford
00:07:09.828 - 00:08:08.936
At this point, I think there's always some amount of innovation to come.
But I'm just not sure what people expect, like what are we going to come out with that's just going to absolutely change the way that people interact or buy outdoor product? You know, the categories are relatively set. They haven't changed in 50 years or what have you.
You know, a shell that you buy today isn't that dramatically different than when you bought 30 years ago?
So the things that we do, I mean, yes, there's, there are innovators that come out with new products and new materials and new technologies or even, you know, new categories like we talked about, the biolite folks. I mean that's innovation. But on the whole it's a lot of the same sorts of things. And unless it was some AI powered, I don't know, jacket, Right.
I don't really know what's going to totally change the world from an innovation perspective.
Colin True
00:08:09.128 - 00:08:12.820
Marty McFly style, it zips itself up kind of like, kind of thing.
Eoin Comerford
00:08:13.120 - 00:08:24.084
I do think some newness from a brand perspective, from a product perspective would definitely help, but I don't think that's what's necessarily going to turn around the outdoor industry here in the, in the short term.
Colin True
00:08:24.252 - 00:08:36.320
Well, that's a good point. So Dave, you and I, we both worked at a fabric maker once upon a time.
I mean, and the material makers are the ones who typically have to solve these performance problems. I mean, do you see an opportunity for innovation in the industry?
Producer Dave
00:08:37.100 - 00:08:39.812
Yes, I think maybe.
Colin True
00:08:39.876 - 00:08:42.724
What specifically? And detail it out right now.
Producer Dave
00:08:42.892 - 00:10:22.630
I think defining innovation beyond a product performance metric is probably where the industry could be looking at, you know, is this is innovation and more holistic term for all of the sides of the business from how we cultivate our communities, how we build sustainability into our systems, you know, how do we, the stances and the policy activism that we take. There's a lot of individual brands that have done these specific things well, but very few can do all of them well.
And maybe that's the innovative transformation that needs to happen. We just need to get better at the suite of things we all need, we know we need to be doing.
And at the same time, product is the core thing that we're talking about here and moves. And so yeah, and in that case, like you mentioned, with fabric, I'm not so sure we're going to see leaps in terms of functionality.
Is this going to be that much more waterproof or that much more warmer? Maybe, but we're certainly going to see changes in how things are made. Right. The closed loop aspect of stuff, bio based.
So really the sustainability of both material and process is the innovation. And it's iterative by nature. It's going to be harder to get leaps.
But I do feel like we've now been searching and researching and kind of figuring stuff out that you add AI computation on top of that. Could we be in for some truly innovative compounds, materials or processes as a result of that? Maybe so.
Eoin Comerford
00:10:23.180 - 00:11:37.674
I think part of my issue though is first of all, what was the last major innovation in the outdoor industry to come from an established outdoor brand? And I just feel like there's so much that's very, just iterative and evolutionary within brands themselves.
And I think back of some of the things that even just on the footwear front, Hoka, right?
New, a new brand that came from out of nowhere, totally different look, you know, grew up during the, you know, even, even the barefoot thing came out of, you know, Vibram Five Fingers. Okay, Vibram, obviously outdoor brand, but it wasn't really an outdoor brand. It was a, it was a material ingredient brand. Ingredient brand, exactly.
Or Vivo Barefoot or some of those folks. Right. And then those, some of those within the industry, like Merrill and others sort of jumped on the, on the bandwagon.
Even, you know, Altra with their footbox, that they weren't really a mainstream brand before they came look at on running. Same thing, right?
And I think a lot of what we tend to do is we within the industry, we tend to geek out ourselves about things and get super excited. You talk about a colin, about a 1% increase in breathability and the rank and file customers just don't care.
Colin True
00:11:37.762 - 00:11:38.378
They don't.
Eoin Comerford
00:11:38.474 - 00:13:00.050
They just don't care at all. Right. And we, and, or we get, you know, we're all about PFAs. Again, most consumers don't know what that means and have no idea what it's about. Right.
Or.
And so we do talk about materials, we talk about these minor improvements in performance when the reality is consumers care about the way things look and the way things feel, but actual nth degree performance really is not part of what they're about. And you look back to the footwear thing again, why is on running so great?
Is it because the performance of an on running shoe is that much better than anything that Nike can do or anything that anyone else can do? No, because you look at it, it's a really interesting differentiated look to the sole, to the footbed.
And people look at that and they go, oh, that looks like it's really cool. I can see where that flexes. I can see how that is a new technology. Same thing with Hoka.
Like you look at Hokas, you go, oh, those things are super light. So I can feel that in my hand and it looks like it's going to be super comfortable, so I'm going to buy that.
And I just think we miss that so many times in our industry again and again and again. We miss the visual tech aspect of what we do and we focus on the internal performance and the internal materials and consumers don't give a crap.
Colin True
00:13:00.210 - 00:14:58.088
Yeah, I think there's a gross misunderstanding of like how our stuff gets made.
I mean, a lot of we're going to get into it with our first suggestion, but there's a, you know, I, I imagine there's a fair amount of people even in the industry who think that maybe brands actually make the stuff, like make the stuff that they actually produce. We know consumers think that. Right. And so they think, oh, brands need to do a better job with this. Like, no, brands are mostly shopping.
And by the way, like the three of us right now could develop an apparel brand and have off the shelf solutions that would be complet comparable to most of the best outdoor brands going right now.
Just, you know, again, we could concept a few things, get a few samples made, and within what, 30 days we'd probably have an outdoor brand just buying stuff off the shelf. Just basic, you know, kind of silhouettes.
Not saying it would be successful, but it's not a stretch to start something these days the way that it used to be, where it was like, hey, there's a handful of people and they're really kind of pushing the boundaries of what you can do. And then there's this handful of maker material makers who were supporting their efforts. That's not the way it is anymore.
This entire kind of infrastructure has grown up around it, which is probably then a good way to kind of get into the first thing we want to talk about as a suggestion for a new type of innovation for the industry. And it's the antiquated way we approach buying, making and selling things, particularly apparel, which is our largest category.
So it does take up a lot of the conversation here. The fact is, in the outdoor industry is kind of held hostage by a two season approach to buying and selling. We have self imposed long lead times.
We ask retailers and brands to forecast seasonal specific products 12 to 24 months in advance of the season. Those products will be available to consumers. And then the vast majority of that kind of like we're alluding to is fashion driven.
So we also have to Predict color and trends 12 to 24 months in advance of when those products will be available to consumers. So why is it this way too, by the way? Because the only real answer to that I feel like is, well, it's the way we've always done it.
Which to me is the worst answer you can give to almost any question. Like, well, that's just what we do and how we do it. So, you know, you posted about this, I think just yesterday, Owen.
Eoin Comerford
00:14:58.184 - 00:14:58.440
Right.
Colin True
00:14:58.480 - 00:15:16.168
I know this is airing on Monday, so it came out last week. You posted about it last week. And you have the most retail experience on this pod.
You know, why can't the industry evolve past this kind of thinking, kind of like how do. And I guess, or even if you want to start with how do we, you know, what's the idea behind sort of shrinking, you know, those, that schedule?
Eoin Comerford
00:15:16.264 - 00:15:48.820
Nick, unfortunately you hit on the answer. It's the way we've always done it and we're stuck in these just major seasonal manufacturing cycles.
And actually I would argue if anything, the order timing has gotten earlier over the years than it used to be. Right. I mean, at Moose Jaw, we were looking at the following fall's product, right.
Samples and trying to, you know, put together early POs, et cetera, in October. Okay. So you know, and that's the fall.
Colin True
00:15:48.860 - 00:15:52.132
You would have been planning for 2026, correct?
Eoin Comerford
00:15:52.196 - 00:16:03.396
October 25th, we would have been buying for fall of 26, which would have started to deliver in August, September. So Almost, if not 10 months in advance. Nine or 10 months in advance. Right.
Colin True
00:16:03.468 - 00:16:12.372
And that stuff you would have been looking at in the fall would have been in development at the brands you were looking at it for the previous six to 18 months, depending on the brand you're talking to.
Eoin Comerford
00:16:12.556 - 00:18:06.948
Yeah, probably six to 12. I mean, basically for a brand new product, it's 18 months, I think is the average that I'm hearing out there.
Some are faster, some are slower, but it's like about 18 months. But you've got the actual development cycle on the front end with all the prototyping, et cetera.
Then there's a big rush to have samples made for all of these, the sell in cycle and for all the reps, et cetera. And then there's the actual whole production cycle. But it's not like you couldn't be faster.
I mean, fast fashion, I know everybody rips on fast fashion because it's unsustainable, disposable clothing, yada yada. But they're turning around a new design concept in Six to eight weeks.
So from a design line drawing of a design to showing up on the shelf in the store, six to eight weeks now people are going to say to me, owen, you're an idiot. Because that is some just flimsy dress or skirt. We're designing technical performance apparel.
And I totally get it and I totally agree, but that doesn't mean that we can't move from 18 months closer to, I don't know, eight, six. You know, I'm not suggesting we're going to get it done in six to eight weeks, but you can absolutely cut just a shit ton of time out of it.
And it's actually, I feel it's one of the biggest deterrents to innovation that we have in our industry is because that process, that 18 month process is very expensive.
You're going to go through round and round and round of prototyping and testing and all this other stuff and then it's going to get all the sampling and all the things and all the stuff. So the only ideas, well, the only ideas that make it. First of all, there are some amazing designers in our industry, right?
And I guarantee you they're frustrated because some of them come up with some really great stuff that never makes it out of the design studio, out of the CAD drawing.
Colin True
00:18:07.124 - 00:18:08.882
Maybe it doesn't even get samples, right?
Eoin Comerford
00:18:08.906 - 00:18:21.070
Because it's like, oh, no, no, we've never done, we've never done a site like that before. Why would we do that? That's crazy.
And so it never makes it beyond there and then, you know, and I'll probably get some hate mail over this, but I hope you also.
Producer Dave
00:18:22.170 - 00:18:27.270
What is that on your jacket? What is that over there? Oh, that's a bright color. Oh, sorry, sorry.
Eoin Comerford
00:18:28.970 - 00:18:58.490
But what will happen too is, let's see, the designer does come out with something.
It gets sampled, it goes into the sales meetings with retailers and retailers we can be pretty conservative because now we're risking our inventory buy on this product and we're like, eh, I don't know if we're going to do that. I mean, I can't tell you how many styles we at Moustro got excited about from, you know, brand X, Y or Z.
And then, you know, three months later we get a revised PO back. Hey, yeah, we didn't get enough.
Colin True
00:18:58.870 - 00:18:59.950
Yeah, we're not making that one.
Eoin Comerford
00:18:59.990 - 00:19:00.798
We're not making that one.
Colin True
00:19:00.854 - 00:19:03.262
No one wanted the green, not just.
Eoin Comerford
00:19:03.286 - 00:19:05.726
The color, but like a whole style would be gone.
Colin True
00:19:05.758 - 00:19:07.838
Yeah, right, right. Oh good, right, good point. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:19:07.854 - 00:19:21.034
You know, it's like oh yeah, Nobody wanted the 4 inch inseam on that, you know, but that's what's cool. Like sorry. No, yeah, no, the, all the, all the 50 year old white guys that are, you know, buying this product.
Colin True
00:19:21.122 - 00:19:22.746
12 inch. Only 12 inch inseam.
Eoin Comerford
00:19:22.858 - 00:19:49.574
Exactly. So I think it could be a huge unlock if brands just not.
And I get it, you're not going to get all of your products down to eight months or whatever because you've got to have to, right? Just do a skunk works let's say, let's take 10%, build this product like almost, you know, like micro capsule stuff.
Get it out there, see what works and then if it does takeoff now you can go through your whole buy in, sell in cycle and you've got something to lean on.
Colin True
00:19:49.662 - 00:21:36.196
But that's what I mean like that, that's the opportunity is can think a little bit differently. This is innovation. Okay? Innovation is not perform just iterating on performance. It's how do we approach this whole thing?
Because I think we're closer to six to eight weeks and maybe we even want to admit because of what I said just a few minutes ago about kind of off the shelf products. Better basics to everybody right now means like T shirts, you know, underwear, the real easy very simple things.
Better basics could include waterproof, breathable insulation, very basic kind of things.
There's a lot of products that are well made that are made that you can just pick a color and have stuff made if a brand wanted to they could easily on those sort of better basic outdoor products probably come to market with something really quickly on a much more regular cadence. Did not need to wait for the fall salivan for the following fall.
There's ways to do a solve for all that and then for your more sort of of again top of the mountain to use the kind of old school pyramid that we always refer to.
If you want to develop fabrics, if you want to develop something a little bit more interesting and you have a little bit of a longer lead time thing because this is the sort of, you know, core kind of thing.
I don't, I don't know, I'm kind of like just spitballing here but there's a lot of ways you could kind of slice this apple that result in probably a lot more flexibility in terms of like getting things that people are going to buy more regularly while also producing more interesting things. And you have a little bit longer lead times to do that.
And there's just, there's none of I guess the frustration here I'm not trying to sell anybody on this thing that I'm saying, or even what you're saying is that this conversation just isn't happening. Like, who's having this conversation? Who's even looking at it? Why aren't retailers demanding it?
And why are brands looking at it and saying, wow, we could really be more valuable to our retail partners and frankly, Even our own D2C channels if we did this a little bit more regularly. And you could probably still do it much more sustainably than fast fashion. But it is taking a lesson from that world.
Eoin Comerford
00:21:36.268 - 00:21:53.752
Well, from a sustainability aspect, I think actually this could be better because one of the issues that we have is that again, we're trying to order this stuff and figure this stuff out 12 to 18 months in advance. You can never be right. Right. You've no idea. Things change, tastes change, color, tastes change, all these things.
Colin True
00:21:53.776 - 00:21:54.840
Is it going to snow?
Eoin Comerford
00:21:55.000 - 00:23:03.648
Right. Exactly, exactly. And so you've got all this product that you're making on hoping. Right. And you're always going to be wrong.
There's going to be hot sellers that are going to sell out and there's going to be other items that are just going to sit there and then until you mark them down and you have blow them out in clearance. Right. So if you could more realistically tie production to demand, that, that would be way more sustainable than the way we do it today.
The other, the other key word that you said there, Colin, was iteration. Right. And innovation. Speed of innovation is directly correlated to shortness of iteration. Right.
So in other words, if you're iterating on a product every 18 to 24 months, it takes forever to get better each one. Unless you're making actually gargantuan leaps within each one, which is not typically what we've seen in the industry.
It just can take forever to get to true innovation. If you're iterating every six months, you're basically innovating three times faster than you are today. So. Really?
And yeah, I'm not sure why we aren't getting there, but it just feels like the inertia of the industry is against it.
Colin True
00:23:03.804 - 00:23:34.916
Yeah. And there might be some, I don't know, maybe like a Patagonia Snap tea, Maybe they do manage that inventory more.
Like they can probably have some inter. They're changing colors every season, so maybe something like that.
There might be something like what we're describing, but it just seems like this is a topic that you know to your exact point, everyone's just going to shy away immediately from that kind of fast fashion comp. So if we need to call it something else, let's call it something else. But there are lessons that can be learned.
Like they are changing the apparel world and why can't we just adopt what actually is working well for what they do into what we do.
Eoin Comerford
00:23:34.988 - 00:23:38.420
Celebrated apparel instead of fast fashion or.
Producer Dave
00:23:38.460 - 00:24:19.580
Considered apparel, considered production. I think though all this conversation is kind of missing the 800 pound gorilla in the room in terms of how far away we make our stuff.
I mean you're talking about getting closer to demand and production. Well, how about weeks on the water, right? How about all of that aspect and the unsustainable nature of that like make things closer to.
It doesn't take as long to iterate. It doesn't take as long to innovate. It doesn't take as long to get that consumer feedback.
And you know there's obviously that's a flip statement on a much deeper topic to that. But the reality is we choose not to make things here that, that's not a, it's not, we're not forced to.
Colin True
00:24:19.880 - 00:24:25.536
Well, you're not talking about full on production runs, you're just saying even like sampling we could, a lot brands could invest in the capability to make.
Producer Dave
00:24:25.688 - 00:24:51.410
There's a lot of that statement, you're right. A lot that can be done to that.
And you certainly know design studios that have relationships with prototype, you know, facilities and are able to create collections and look, a lot of these brands use these third party design plus production houses in order to create their collections. So they're not again not doing it themselves. But the model does exist. Right. And so I just, I think that.
Eoin Comerford
00:24:52.030 - 00:25:52.276
Again, yeah, I mean certainly Zara, you know, in Spain most of their production is on the Iberian peninsula for that very reason. Reason it's in Portugal, it's in Spain or nearby so that they, so, so they can nearshore it and, and get it out there.
Now I, I do think obviously the current tariff conversation has had a lot of driven a lot of conversation about bringing apparel manufacturing back to the US and it's not as easy as it sounds. I guess there's a lot of skill upskilling that needs to happen. There's a lot of infrastructure. We, we don't have the mills here.
So even if we are going to bring it here, a lot of the fabrics that have to be imported. So I think that there's a nuanced conversation to be had there.
But I think it's a worthy one to have and even if it isn't us made if it's just near shored, I think you could absolutely cut down on the environmental impact of transporting those goods.
Producer Dave
00:25:52.388 - 00:25:55.440
Like that rogue nation of Canada. Is that what you're talking about?
Colin True
00:25:57.100 - 00:26:00.960
I think our Terex can make almost anything online on site even if it's like a one off.
Producer Dave
00:26:01.260 - 00:26:33.010
There's a great ecosystem up in BC of about for, for some of this in terms of prototyping to design and development and, and, and I, and I know that it's, it's hard and I know that it's not. It's a deeper issue that's going to take a long time to build those capabilities but it's going to take longer if we don't start.
You know, I mean that's really the, the main issue. If every, if every company committed to 10 to 15% of their line then we would start to build the, the resources that we need to do this.
Colin True
00:26:33.310 - 00:26:35.650
Right. But they're not going to do that.
Producer Dave
00:26:38.190 - 00:27:27.072
You know, I was the visual tech, I was going to get, you know, we. The big difference is between design innovation and scientific innovation. Right.
And that's where you said that, that scientific tends to lead to things that are unseen and not necessarily consumer appreciated until maybe after it becomes just fade accompli. Right? Like the fact, you know, waterproof used to be such a big point, you know, wow. Everyone had to point it out. Now I expect it. Right.
Well that's a scientific advancement that makes that possible. Where design innovation is, does it look cool and does it function? Is there a functionality to it? But that's not.
Those are just totally different forms of innovation. Both necessary, both lifeblood of the industry, but they just serve different purposes is.
Colin True
00:27:27.256 - 00:28:05.080
Well and just because I'm down on like performance innovation, it's not, not that I'm down on it as an idea, it's just going to take longer. I mean there's things happening. We talked about it in the past before, right.
I mean we spent like three years trying to develop spider silk into you know, something, you know and it's when those things happen and they're happening behind the scenes, they're going to be interesting and change things.
But it just, I think we have too much of a long memory with a lot of folks in the industry who still remember when it seemed like every few years a new thing was coming out and it was all this like oh, you can do this now. Oh there's four way stretch. Oh we have this breathability, blah blah blah.
And now it's like there hasn't been as much everyone's like, well, we got to get back to innovating. Like, no, we kind of innovated everything. Like we kind of.
Producer Dave
00:28:05.460 - 00:28:13.532
Isn't that a very human enamored with their own place in history kind of approach? You have no idea what we haven't innovated yet.
Colin True
00:28:13.636 - 00:28:18.572
You know what we're doing? We're innovating the innovation to get the pfas out of it. That's why we're innovating now.
Producer Dave
00:28:18.676 - 00:28:23.406
We have to take a step back and realize, oh man, I'm poisoning the planet with all of this innovation.
Colin True
00:28:23.588 - 00:28:25.482
So let's innovate. That, that's innovation.
Producer Dave
00:28:25.546 - 00:28:39.418
But, but you know the idea that there is a paper thin material that is both, you know, heat and cold resistant to incredible variances. Sure, why not? Does it exist now? No. Doesn't mean that it can't.
Eoin Comerford
00:28:39.514 - 00:29:13.478
There's going to be plenty of innovation. I mean it's just a matter of making innovation that people will care about. It's.
It's like the Nike Airsole and the fact that, that you know, it was a great innovation but nobody cared until they put the little window on the side and you could actually, the consumer could see it and understand. Wow, that's really amazing. Right. So that's what on did. Right.
So we tend in the industry, I think to innovate for innovation's sake, which is great, but you always have to keep the customer in mind because otherwise they're not going to be willing to pay for it.
Producer Dave
00:29:13.614 - 00:29:26.620
Nobody really cared about the astronauts until they came out with Tango. Like that's really the. Okay, now I, now I get it. Okay. Space program A. Okay. Right. I got orange powder drink.
Colin True
00:29:27.120 - 00:29:37.080
By the way, I think Nike Air and the on technology are both kind of bullshit and they still sell billions of dollars of the product. So like heck, this goes to show. Like, ah, it looks cool. That's what I want.
Eoin Comerford
00:29:37.120 - 00:29:43.156
Bullshit. Technology that the consumer can understand will always outsell a brilliant technology that they don't understand. Brand.
Colin True
00:29:43.228 - 00:29:44.116
That'd be a great brand.
Producer Dave
00:29:44.188 - 00:29:46.996
That is the VHS Beta Corollary right there.
Eoin Comerford
00:29:47.148 - 00:29:48.040
Absolutely.
Producer Dave
00:29:48.620 - 00:29:49.268
Yep.
Colin True
00:29:49.364 - 00:29:51.124
This is better. Yeah, but this is easier.
Producer Dave
00:29:51.172 - 00:29:56.404
Yeah, done. And the porn industry adopted it. Okay.
Colin True
00:29:56.452 - 00:30:01.412
Yes. Oh well, porn's on board. Well, they always know what they're talking about.
Producer Dave
00:30:01.436 - 00:30:02.640
They drive everything.
Colin True
00:30:04.300 - 00:30:48.176
Before we move on to the next one, we want to remind everyone, Garage Grown gear, it's your hub for all things. Ultra light backpack and they've got an epic thru hiking giveaway running right now.
There are over $15,000 worth of prizes from dozens of the best ultralight backpacking brands like Hyper Light Mountain Gear, Gossamer Gear, Western Mountaineering and Z Packs just to name a few. They will be choosing 10 winners in just a few days. So go ahead and enter now before it closes on March 26th. With that, that's two days from now.
You have two days to enter. So go to garage growing gear garagegrowngear.com and enter the through hiking giveaway. So you can get upwards of $15,000 worth of prizes.
And don't go hiking in your technology. I don't think there's any technology on Garage Grown Gear.
Eoin Comerford
00:30:48.288 - 00:30:50.176
No, absolutely not.
Colin True
00:30:50.328 - 00:30:51.280
I hope not.
Eoin Comerford
00:30:51.400 - 00:30:55.740
See Dyneema. See, there you go. That, that is an actual material technology that people care about.
Colin True
00:30:56.440 - 00:31:40.458
It is interesting though. I, I did this in a parting shot. The. So I got my Nordas which have Dyneema in it. And if you look at their marketing, they are all over the Dyneema.
And I'm like 99% of the people who buy these shoes are not going to give a shit about Dyneema. Right? It's like make, it's like frankly, it's the fact that you can double your mileage. That's how you get people on board with these shoes.
It's like this is worth two pairs of shoes. Okay, I will else buy these shoes. The Dyneema, you learn about it. It's great. It's going to last forever. That's awesome.
But just go with the simple thing. Show me the benefits of running this Dyneema. It's cool. But like, like double the mileage. That's way better.
All right, our next solution is presented by Oboz who loves hiking and wants us all to talk more about hiking. You know, the activity we talked about.
Producer Dave
00:31:40.514 - 00:31:44.990
Colin, I have to interrupt. Does Oboz just like hiking?
Colin True
00:31:45.410 - 00:31:47.514
No, they love hiking.
Producer Dave
00:31:47.562 - 00:31:48.442
Thank you. Thank you.
Colin True
00:31:48.466 - 00:31:50.010
They're the cupid of the outdoors.
Producer Dave
00:31:50.170 - 00:31:52.058
Well, there you go.
Colin True
00:31:52.194 - 00:32:45.780
We're going to count the ways we love hiking just like Oboz does in a second. But first we want to talk about experiential marketing. Right? Right.
So we want to see the industry innovate on the front end of how we're making our stuff, bringing it to market. The next innovation, it isn't all that new. I say it's more experiential marketing.
There was an article that ran this week on Modern Retail co about how American Eagle, you know, the mall like jeans brand, is planning to drive interest in its brand and products through pop ups and more community engagement. And I know That a fair amount of these types of things happen in the outdoor industry, but I don't think it's at a scale that it should happen.
Outdoor brands and retailers alike need to step up the community engagement. Especially now when we're kind of a crazy world.
This is an opportunity to bring people together and it's not only just good for business, it also increases access and creates a more welcoming environment for potentially marginalized groups as well. So Dave, what can showing up as a community do for a brand?
Producer Dave
00:32:45.900 - 00:32:48.560
Blow your T and E budget out of the water?
Colin True
00:32:49.500 - 00:32:51.200
I don't have any tech reps currently.
Producer Dave
00:32:52.780 - 00:34:57.370
No, look again. We're calling it an innovation only in the sense that it's an underrepresented core tactic. Right. That brands have deployed forever. I mean it's.
How else do you show that you belong within a community or a group without being there without showing up? It's part of the origin stories of brands. I'll take the Nike and Phil Knight selling shoes out of the back of the station wagon.
I'll add to many brands have stories like this in terms of how they first get out there and, and show a product and the people that rally around it. And when you're talking about experiential, you are talking kind of what we referred to before.
You're talking about community, you're talking about loyalty of people, you're talking about building that trust that you are an authentic, talking about authenticity in terms of how do you demonstrate that. So I think that's what we're really talking about with experiential.
It's not just the I'm going to lower know, put my pipe and drape up and, and sell some product at the event. But it's more about your people of your brand talking and interacting with, with, with, with civilians if you will.
And they get to see that there are humans behind the, the digital facade.
I mean this is also a natural, I would say counteraction reaction to our, our D2C Internet based, you know, kind of functionality that has taken over so many brands thinking in terms of their prim and outreach is now through Meta and Google. Right. And the loss of other aggregating forms of media is a part of that. So where else can I go? And I think that's probably a good thing.
I think the more that we can get out there and meet folks and be able to have one on one human interactions and conversations about the things we're making and why is better, you know, it's going to result in stronger sales and stronger Loyalty.
Colin True
00:34:57.820 - 00:35:10.228
I'm sure the retailers do a better job of the brands in this. I think the good retailers are pretty engaged in their community. I think I'm probably looking more at the brands.
But like Owen, when you look back on your moose child times, do you have any retail examples of this experiential stuff being done?
Eoin Comerford
00:35:10.284 - 00:36:07.074
Well, I think most of your better run stores have runs, right. And that's actually run clubs. That's one of the biggest drivers of just repeat traffic. And it'll start at the store, it'll end there.
Maybe there's a coffee shop along the way. Whatever they bring in coffee and donuts, I mean that's just, you know, it's just that's sort of retail 101 is what I would say.
And I think hike or hike, camp, climb stores can do much the same. But don't from my experience now some of them do and it's amazing, but a lot don't.
And like you think I think back on just getting out and hiking Colombia for example, in the UK started something called hike society. So instead of high society, it's hike society. Fun. But basically I got that. Okay, so the no flies on you. True, you're just.
Colin True
00:36:07.242 - 00:36:09.442
I actually did until you pointed it out, but it's okay.
Eoin Comerford
00:36:09.506 - 00:38:25.160
Okay. So anyway. But what they're doing is they organized hikes all over the country and they would promote them through their local retail, et cetera.
They would involve local community groups that were involved with hiking. They would invite maybe local influencers, et cetera, but. But they invited everybody. It's like come on out, have a hike.
And the great thing about hiking is that you don't really need equipment. Right. It's just like a run. I mean, yes, obviously you need decent running shoes. Hopefully hiking year having got some decent hiking boots.
But the rest of it, whatever, come as you are.
And I think that's kind of the important thing with some of this experiential stuff is saying how do we take those outside activities and not just focus on the top of the mountain stuff, let's focus on the bottom of the mountain stuff and the middle of the mountain stuff and the stuff that people can do in their backyards or slightly in the exurbs or what have you where people can really access the outdoors and we can be part of having that access happen. Like one of my favorite events around Detroit back in the day was for ice climbing.
And you think ice climbing, wow, that's a really kind of nichy thing. But really some crampons and a Rope. I mean, most people can figure it out.
And there was this one area in suburban Detroit, they had this old crane, this big, tall crane, right.
And they ran a water hose up there, and then they put some plywood and they would just run water down this plywood for months while it basically froze into a sheet of ice. And then we would go out there and we would have ice climbing in suburban Detroit. It was amazing. It's awesome.
So those are the kinds of things if you can get really innovative. Snowshoeing, same kind of thing. It's like, does snowshoeing have to be in the deep backcountry? No, you could do snowshoeing in a city park.
Like, just get people out. That feeling of being walking on top of the snow, it's like you never forget that the first time you do it.
But so many people will never experience that. Right. But there are stores that do a great job and organize snowshoeing in those environments, and there are some that don't.
So I think that's really the way you have to think about it.
Colin True
00:38:25.940 - 00:39:54.990
Yeah, this is something that I always feel like it's been underutilized, the outdoor space. And now. I do think it's really important now as kind of in this kind of weird time, both economically and obviously socially as well.
You know, this is where brands and products and the activities we do, they're kind of tailor made to bring people together in this way. But it also, like, I just.
The thing that inspired this to me, for me to want to put in the outline, the fact it was like American Eagle, like kind of getting it, they're going to do like a denim deli. And I'm just thinking, yeah, you know what? If I was in. I think it's in Nashville. If I showed up at the. I don't know if it was really well executed.
All of a sudden it's like, yeah, American Eagle, cool, shop. I'm going to go shop there again. And that's just sort of your everyday wear kind of stuff versus, like, what you're talking about.
You might expose somebody to ice climbing for the first time again in Detroit. Like, how would you know? That's actually. That's important, right?
That's saying, like, here's something that you maybe didn't understand that you wanted to go and do, and you don't have to go to a certain big mountain state or even like the up to, like to go discover it. So. And also then just kind of, I go back to the stuff I always talk about.
With know, create interest in your brand that isn't just the thing that's going to be delivered in 18 months. Like we spent the first part of the pod talking about. Right. I mean, I talk about.
Talked about it before the Asics trap house, where they built a trap house in New York City and then this cool little launch, and it was a sole thing. You had to go in and put money in a box and then you got your shoes.
Like, people love that stuff and it gets you PR and it creates brand loyalty, all of these things. I think this stuff should happen all the time, and I think now is an absolute. A necessary time for more of this stuff to come out. For sure.
Eoin Comerford
00:39:55.360 - 00:40:33.774
Yeah. I mean, as we rolled out stores across the country, one of the things that we did was we would try to get. Get hooked up with a. With a.
A microbrewery in that. In that town. And they were sort of our unofficial microbrewery friend. And whenever we would have an event, we would. We would have their.
Their beer there, in some cases, a custom brew for. For just for that event. And there are some amazing outdoor stores out there that are.
Some of them have bars in the store, others have coffee shops in the store, like Neptune in Boulders, an example. So there are definitely great stores out there doing this. It's not like we're just coming up with this idea.
Colin True
00:40:33.822 - 00:40:40.766
I think the stores are always the willing participants. It's like, hey, brands, bring some things to the stores. Right. Endear yourself.
Eoin Comerford
00:40:40.878 - 00:41:24.108
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I remember back. I think it was it Marmot or Mountain Hardware, one of those used to do. I think it was.
It was Wine Evening, but it was actually for. It was like a women's event.
And so you shut down the store and they would bring in extra product and then there would be wine and cheese and whatever, but those sorts of things. I think if the brands can be more. Yeah.
To your point, pulling together these programs that are available for their retail partners to really connect with consumers about the product or better yet, using the product. I think. Yeah, there's just not enough of that happening.
Producer Dave
00:41:24.204 - 00:41:54.084
Retail, in a sense, is an experiential tactic. Right. And so they're closer to it because that's what they are. Right. You've gotten.
So the idea of building an experience in real life is just, you know, how that's all structured.
And the one thing like, even with American Eagle, that gives me a little pause, like, yes, they're leaning into experience, of course, because probably relied too much on, you know, a dying distribution channel of malls and too much D2C. So what do you do? And everyone.
Colin True
00:41:54.172 - 00:41:56.276
We have an orange Juliet. What else do we need?
Eoin Comerford
00:41:56.348 - 00:41:56.532
Right.
Producer Dave
00:41:56.556 - 00:42:07.796
Everyone. And so they're gonna have their, you know, their denim deli, which that type of promotion is nice, but it's still not getting it.
That experiential is beyond just hawking your product in a new place.
Colin True
00:42:07.868 - 00:42:08.756
Totally, totally.
Eoin Comerford
00:42:08.788 - 00:42:08.932
Right.
Producer Dave
00:42:08.956 - 00:42:10.068
And I guess that's where I get.
Colin True
00:42:10.124 - 00:42:11.828
So they mean jeans. I mean, like, you know.
Producer Dave
00:42:11.884 - 00:43:21.448
Well, but. But I guess to that point, you know, like, you were talking about expanding what snowshoeing is.
And it doesn't have to take place three hours from the city center to do that. And now you're bringing in a whole new group of people in terms of their experience level and appreciation.
And that can take place not just in snowshoeing or running and hiking. It can be in, like you said, urban parks. It could be art and museums and places to go to admire things out there or.
Or universities and lectures and folks that are doing things and studying the outdoors and imparting knowledge. Those are all experiential opportunities, too, that your product is a part of.
Rather, it's a literal youth function or just that we're living in the same ecosystem and we all have these shared interests.
And this gets back to our activism and promoting understanding of what's being done and conservation, like all of this is around that and create opportunities and avenues to expand and experience. Right. And I think that's just being able to think outside of just that transactional aspect of an experience is super important.
A layered approach to a brand.
Eoin Comerford
00:43:21.584 - 00:44:35.862
And it's working out there for. I mean, you look at Dick Sporting Goods, for example, they're investing millions of dollars in their new House of Sport concept. And that's working.
I mean, they're doing 35 to $50 million per door. Okay. In those stores because people are coming from miles away to experience those stores.
And because in those stores, they have batting cages, you want to go and you want to test out some different baseball bats. They've got batting cages. You want to test out a putter, We've got this beautiful putting green. You want to hit a driver. We've got a driving range.
You want to test out the basketball, We've got a basketball court outside. That is truly experiential. And that's working.
Not only is it working from a sales perspective, but actually Dick's Sporting Goods is getting a better deal on their real estate because they are drawing traffic to the malls where they're located. And so the landlords.
The landlords are fighting to get those locations and they're willing to pony up millions of dollars to build them out to get them into their locations because of the draw of an experiential retail experience. How many times can we say experience and experiential in one?
Producer Dave
00:44:36.046 - 00:44:38.900
We should count them though, and have a counter at the the end.
Eoin Comerford
00:44:40.640 - 00:45:00.088
Maybe that's what we should do. The drinking game for this podcast in general. Okay, drinking in one is if the word innovation, that's the first shot. Right.
And then for this particular podcast, though, if you say experience or experiential, that's a different shot. Maybe we get like, you know, we'll do like a lemon drop versus something.
Colin True
00:45:00.144 - 00:45:04.632
Else we should have said at the beginning. I could add like a little like, you know, sound effects.
Producer Dave
00:45:04.696 - 00:45:15.860
You need to cut. You need to cut that out, what he just said and drop that at the beginning just as a non. Right. Right before you get in or in between.
That would just be a funny little. Just like.
Eoin Comerford
00:45:16.320 - 00:45:23.660
I just hope that, you know, we don't want people, you know, driving on the way to work on a Monday morning and just, you know, just getting hammered.
Colin True
00:45:24.080 - 00:46:00.400
I rather think so.
Kyle Frost, friend of the POD Frost, had a thing last week about Neurona and he referenced a lot of sort of failed omnichannel attempts by other brands. I'm being a little more on the nose than probably. He was very.
He was very good about how he wrote it, but like, you know, the REI experiences and evo's tried some and just sort of like everyone wants to sort of expand their footprint into other things. Can these types of experiential marketing sort of accomplish what a lot of Omni Channel strategies are trying to accomplish, but it's kind of at a.
A lower cost or investment? Is that kind of a bridge too far to kind of suggest or is there. Are there some dots to connect there?
Eoin Comerford
00:46:01.900 - 00:46:15.626
I think they don't have to be million dollar things. I mean, obviously Evo has spent a lot of money on different things like, like a hotel or for skateboarders in Salt Lake City.
And I have no idea how that's doing. By the way, hotel for skateboarders.
Colin True
00:46:15.658 - 00:46:16.394
It'd be a great movie.
Producer Dave
00:46:16.442 - 00:46:18.830
By the way, Justin, I think that was called Kids.
Eoin Comerford
00:46:21.170 - 00:46:32.506
But a lot of these things that we're talking about, bringing in a keg of the local microbrew, organizing a hike, snowshoeing in the park. These are not large dollar type of activities.
Colin True
00:46:32.538 - 00:46:53.206
Well, that's what I mean. So if Brands would again recognize these things as ways to sort of again expand their reach.
Get all we are, all this really is right is a fight for brand loyalty in a lot of ways how we approach what they bring to market. Just the more of these kinds of events, there's a lasting impression, I guess is what I would say.
Producer Dave
00:46:53.278 - 00:47:01.142
A tech rep is experiential marketing. Well, you're bringing the word out and you're interacting face to face in places.
Colin True
00:47:01.206 - 00:47:04.054
Who has tech reps anymore? Who are the brands who still do tech reps?
Producer Dave
00:47:04.102 - 00:47:04.598
I would love.
Colin True
00:47:04.654 - 00:47:05.698
Got to be few, right?
Producer Dave
00:47:05.754 - 00:47:06.930
I would love to know that.
Colin True
00:47:07.050 - 00:47:32.708
I would love to know if you're a brand listening to this and you have a tech rep team.
Myrockvitegmail.com I want, because I, as a former tech rep, I am a big tech rep proponent and to Dave's point, that does goes a long way in sort of these sorts of relationships.
To have somebody show up at a shop that is not just a sales rep, that is from the brand and sort of take the staff out, bring them stuff, whatever it is, but just, even just clinics, that goes a long way. So I'm curious about that.
Eoin Comerford
00:47:32.754 - 00:47:34.700
That it does. I agree.
Colin True
00:47:35.880 - 00:47:51.600
Well, today's episode of the Rock Fight is presented by Oboz, who was helping us ask the question, how much do I love hiking? Let me count the ways. Number one today, weather drama, sun, fog, rain, sometimes all within 10 minutes, especially if you live where Dave lives.
Producer Dave
00:47:51.720 - 00:47:52.740
Not funny.
Colin True
00:47:53.240 - 00:47:57.712
Well, come on, it's almost April. It's, it's, it's misty drizzle season, right? And sunshine.
Producer Dave
00:47:57.776 - 00:48:01.250
Misty drizzle season. Yes. Until July.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:01.870 - 00:48:05.574
We're in Michigan. We're in fall spring number one right now.
Producer Dave
00:48:05.662 - 00:48:06.502
Fall spring.
Colin True
00:48:06.646 - 00:48:10.342
Was it like 63 degrees? Kind of, you know, it was, it.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:10.366 - 00:48:14.198
Was 72 degrees yesterday and it's snowing today, so.
Colin True
00:48:14.254 - 00:48:17.558
Yeah, so. So fall spring number one's over.
Producer Dave
00:48:17.614 - 00:48:18.182
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:18.326 - 00:48:19.330
Oh, it's over.
Producer Dave
00:48:19.950 - 00:48:27.520
I just have to say we're living in a gaudy 47 degrees and rainy. But don't worry, it feels like 35.
Colin True
00:48:27.640 - 00:48:39.088
Number two in today's list, the existential crisis at the summit. You know, wow, I am so small. But also I am a mountain conqueror. Are we okay with the word mountain conqueror? Do we conquer mountains?
I don't think we conquer mountains.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:39.104 - 00:48:41.760
I don't think so. Not anymore. No, that's very.
Colin True
00:48:41.800 - 00:48:43.152
We've canceled conquering mountains.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:43.216 - 00:48:43.968
Yeah, that's very.
Producer Dave
00:48:44.024 - 00:48:47.300
Yeah, I'm a co inhabitant of this mountain.
Colin True
00:48:47.720 - 00:48:51.480
I'm going to lobby the Trump administration to bring conquering Mountains back. I think they'll do it for you.
Producer Dave
00:48:51.520 - 00:48:52.904
They're on it already, don't you worry.
Eoin Comerford
00:48:52.952 - 00:48:54.540
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Colin True
00:48:55.760 - 00:49:03.144
Number three, moss is surprisingly fascinating. Soft, green, thriving on rocks. We should all be more like moss, don't you think?
Producer Dave
00:49:03.232 - 00:49:06.536
I do. I like a lichen. You bet.
Colin True
00:49:06.608 - 00:49:10.472
Should we make like. I like Ikebat. Like pins, but I like lichen.
Producer Dave
00:49:10.536 - 00:49:13.460
I like lichen. Yeah. Yes, we should.
Colin True
00:49:13.920 - 00:50:05.190
Number four, hiking means finding your soul soulmates. In this case, Roads, Rivers and Trails of Milford, Ohio.
If you find yourself in the greater Milford area, pop in and say hi to the folks at Roads, Rivers and Trails. Maybe buy a pair of Oboz boots while you're there. You know, check it out. Sure, they have a few.
And lastly, hiking means the Oboz Katabatic Collection, which has added the all new Katabatic lt, which takes the whole collection to a new level with a lighter package, improved performance and additional environmentally friendly materials. Fast, fast packing, day hiking, whatever your fancy, the Katabatic LT is your hiking shoe of choice.
And this hiking appreciation moment is brought to you by Oboz of Bozeman, montana. Certified B Core 6 million tree planter and proud inhabitant of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem.
Oboz is the maker of premium quality footwear for the trail and the cupid to the outdoor world. Oboz love hiking.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:05.690 - 00:50:08.790
What does katabatic mean? Is. Is that an actual thing?
Colin True
00:50:09.570 - 00:50:15.738
Sure, it's a good word. They probably made up. I don't know. Actually, it's a good point. We Google it. Is that a word?
Eoin Comerford
00:50:15.914 - 00:50:18.826
I guess I could have just googled it rather than ask you that.
Colin True
00:50:18.898 - 00:50:37.698
Oh, actually, yes. Katabatic refers to a. This is actually pretty good. Katabatic refers to a wind that blows down a slope or a hill due to gravity.
Formed when cold, dense air flows downhill and can be a strong, dry wind. Especially common in areas with high altitude terrain like Antarctica. So it's a wind.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:37.834 - 00:50:38.498
It's a wind.
Colin True
00:50:38.554 - 00:50:42.450
And you're. It's their fast biking, fast packing shoe. Actually, I'm pretty good.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:42.570 - 00:50:43.010
Pretty good.
Colin True
00:50:43.050 - 00:50:44.450
Hobos. Not bad.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:44.570 - 00:50:45.390
All right.
Colin True
00:50:45.850 - 00:50:47.170
Heard way worse names.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:47.250 - 00:50:49.042
It's a cool word, you know.
Colin True
00:50:49.066 - 00:50:49.314
Yeah.
Eoin Comerford
00:50:49.362 - 00:50:50.930
But I didn't know it actually meant something.
Producer Dave
00:50:50.970 - 00:50:53.590
So it's no Zephyr, but it's a good word.
Colin True
00:50:54.570 - 00:50:57.106
There must be products called the outdoor products called the Zephyr.
Producer Dave
00:50:57.138 - 00:50:59.954
Oh, I bet there's a ton of it. That's why they call it the Caterpillar Batty.
Eoin Comerford
00:51:00.002 - 00:51:00.870
Exactly.
Colin True
00:51:01.210 - 00:51:03.314
Yeah, right. We can't call it this.
Producer Dave
00:51:03.402 - 00:51:04.270
That's right.
Colin True
00:51:04.570 - 00:51:27.590
All right, it's time for the parting shot. And well, today another authentic brand's owned licensee this time F21OPCO, who's a licensee for Forever 21 has bitten the dust.
I hear they and Liberated brands are going to meet up for a beer later. With that in mind, our own Owen Comerford has our parting shot today. What do you got for us, Owen?
Eoin Comerford
00:51:28.170 - 00:52:02.546
So the ever more ironically named Authentic Brands group, we talk about it a fair amount on here. People might wonder well, why are you talking about these guys, right?
And it's because actually they have quite a lot of brands in the sports and outdoor segment. Obviously there's all the Liberated brands you talked about. Volcom, Billabong, Roxy, Quicksilver, Aruka, Element.
They also had Spider, an iconic brand. They had have Eddie Bauer, Reebok champion Hunter Hunter, Boot Fry, also Fry Boot, Sperry of the Topsiders fame. Prince.
Colin True
00:52:02.738 - 00:52:05.070
Wasn't Sperry a Wolverine brand for a while?
Eoin Comerford
00:52:05.370 - 00:53:17.110
It's part of, part of Authentic brands now. It was Prince of Tennis fame and then Airwalk, which is like a skate shoe brand. So there's a lot there. Right.
And the latest news out of authentic brands that didn't really make much of a ripple I would say in our industry is really to me emblematic of the issue with this business model and why we as an entertainer industry want to stay as far away from it as we can. It's the fact that they proudly announced that we're going to have Roxy dolls which are basically rip offs of like Bratz in Target stores.
So that's great. So the Roxy brand gets to do that.
And, and we're also going to get Roxy and Quicksilver branded pool inflatables, canopies, beach chairs and various other very generic looking product that's available exclusively in that ever authentic place, Amazon.com so that is what happens when all you care about is your licensing revenue rather than any kind of long term brand health. This is what you get.
Colin True
00:53:18.130 - 00:53:29.390
Can we change the name of Authentic to just the Zombie brand manufacturer? Like they're just the virus.
I mean just like we, we take you over and make you immediately less authentic in this space that is built on authenticity.
Eoin Comerford
00:53:30.290 - 00:53:36.310
Zbg Zombie Brand Group. Yeah, that's Zombie Brands Incorporated. Yeah, there you go. A to Z.
Colin True
00:53:38.530 - 00:53:40.990
Well, all right. Authentic.
Producer Dave
00:53:41.730 - 00:54:11.550
Such a bottle. Yeah. Such a bummer. It's definitely, it feels like the final nail in the coffin of action sports as we knew it.
You know, if, if the sale of Liberated wasn't the final this, this certainly is Roxy. Cheap plastic Roxy dolls. I mean they're not even like groovy girls or, you know, something that's got a little bit of craft to it and.
And funky originality. It's just as banal as it gets. And we'll have to pour one out for Roxy.
Colin True
00:54:12.210 - 00:54:40.080
How does this process work? Because I'm trying to picture, you know, is it just literally like. Well, they're Roxy's, you know, they do a lot of surf stuff, a lot of beach stuff.
So let's. We'll make some, you know, beach and pool toys and stuff like that. That makes sense, right?
I mean, like, who's pitching this and getting it approved, you know? Or is it just. Or is Authentic just like the highest bidder to. We want to.
We want to license this brand to make these products with it, and this is what we're willing to pay to do it, and then they can kind of do whatever they want if they get the deal. Is that how this works?
Eoin Comerford
00:54:40.570 - 00:55:51.652
I think theoretically there are brand managers within Authentic that do decide where things show up and in what categories, but it is. It's split so that they have their whole roster and it's split by all the different categories of products that are out there.
And you basically bid to buy a category. So I'm going to give you whatever 6% of the wholesale revenue to be able to be the official toy person for Roxy or the official beach chairperson.
And that's probably outdoor furniture as a category.
And what you're going to see is you're going to see a bunch of Eddie Bauer stuff slapped everywhere, quite frankly, showing up in Target and every other place too. Right. So it's the same kind of thing. And Eddie Barr went through that, I think, one other time in its. In its history.
Back in the 90s, I want to say there was like crappy Eddie Bauer knives were showing up in different places. So Ford Explorers. Oh, the Eddie Bauer Ford Explorer. That's right. They used to get a pair of Eddie Bauer chairs with your Eddie Bauer Ford Explorer.
Colin True
00:55:51.716 - 00:55:54.600
Wasn't there also L.L. bean Ford Explorers, probably.
Eoin Comerford
00:55:55.020 - 00:55:56.532
I think that's the Subaru, actually.
Colin True
00:55:56.636 - 00:55:57.444
Was it the Subaru?
Eoin Comerford
00:55:57.492 - 00:55:57.956
That's right.
Colin True
00:55:58.028 - 00:55:58.612
You're right.
Eoin Comerford
00:55:58.716 - 00:56:15.916
Yeah. Yep, yep. Yeah. So, but absolutely, it's really whoever is going to pay.
And it's all about, how much milk can you get from this brand before you just kill it?
Colin True
00:56:16.068 - 00:56:23.800
Should we do a crowdfunding thing where we could buy something or we could go pitch the rock fight pitch or something and we could take something over?
Eoin Comerford
00:56:24.260 - 00:56:50.584
Yeah, we'll do a hidden camera expose where we go in and we do something really, really dumb, you know, sounds right. And we pitch it and we see. We get on the hidden camera. Like, what if you get these. These.
These authentic brand guys, you know, just getting all lathered up about the licensing potential for, I don't know, Airwalk.
Colin True
00:56:50.632 - 00:56:54.072
I want airwalk, Dave. You want airwalk? You want to do something with airwalk? They used to be cool.
Producer Dave
00:56:54.216 - 00:56:57.704
They did used to be cool, right? They did.
Eoin Comerford
00:56:57.792 - 00:57:12.078
Maybe if somebody could email us the dumbest thing that. That we could pitch to Authentic Brands for one of their existing brands that's just believable enough that they would go, okay, sure.
Colin True
00:57:12.134 - 00:57:13.022
Yeah, I could see that.
Eoin Comerford
00:57:13.046 - 00:57:13.650
Yeah.
Colin True
00:57:14.470 - 00:57:16.810
Just write us a big fat check, guys. We got this.
Producer Dave
00:57:18.950 - 00:57:29.982
This whole thing made me think. You said the process of how this happens. So I got this brand. Roxy. Roxy is surfwear. Surf equals beach. Beach. Oh, that's umbrellas.
The sun is at the beach.
Colin True
00:57:30.046 - 00:57:31.038
That's what I'm saying.
Producer Dave
00:57:31.174 - 00:57:37.258
And the water is at the beach. Oh, inflata. Got it. Okay. And that's the brainstorming of how they get to their product.
Colin True
00:57:37.394 - 00:57:49.546
I'm trying to picture the meeting. That's why I asked. Like, I. I just. I'm like, how does this work especially?
But, like, you can go to Amazon right now and buy umbrellas and inflatables for, like, 4.99. So why do I need a Roxy branded version of that?
Producer Dave
00:57:49.618 - 00:57:54.154
It's $8.99, Colin. It's $8.99. That's why.
Colin True
00:57:54.322 - 00:57:57.034
Ah, double the price.
Producer Dave
00:57:57.122 - 00:57:57.706
Right.
Eoin Comerford
00:57:57.858 - 00:58:03.850
But it's Roxy, though. It is, but it has. It has that Roxy DNA. You don't get it.
Colin True
00:58:03.890 - 00:58:05.070
This might be the sadd.
Producer Dave
00:58:05.870 - 00:58:08.534
It does feel like that. It really does.
Colin True
00:58:08.702 - 00:58:12.406
Yeah. Well, good parting shot, buddy.
Eoin Comerford
00:58:12.518 - 00:58:13.330
Thank you.
Colin True
00:58:14.350 - 00:58:16.134
I guess that's it. Anything else, guys?
Producer Dave
00:58:16.262 - 00:58:18.438
No. I'm gonna go have a drink.
Colin True
00:58:18.614 - 00:58:48.480
All right. Dave's gonna start drinking. It's half. It's almost noon. You're good. All right, we'll wrap it up there.
Check out the latest from the Rock Fight podcast network. Open container. That new episode comes out tomorrow. The Rock Fight is a production of Rock Fight Fight llc.
Our producer today is producer David Car Said art direction provided by Sarah Gensert for Owen Comerford. I'm Colin True. Thanks for listening. And he's here to take us out. Fresh from Wake and Bacon, Gainesville, Florida, it's Chris demaikz.
He's warmed up and ready to sing the Rock Fight fight song. We'll see you next time, Rock Fighters.
Chris DeMakes
00:58:48.560 - 00:59:44.400
Rock Fight. Rock Fight. Rock Flight Rock fight, Rock fight, Rock flight?
Welcome to the rock bike where we speak our truth, Slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree?
We talk about human powered outdoor activities and pig bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture music, the latest movie reviews Ideas that aim for the head? This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rock fight, Rock fight, Rock fight? Welcome to the rock fight?
Rock fight, Rock fight? Welcome to the rock fight? Rock fight, Rock fight, Rock fight, Rock fight, Rock fight? Welcome to the rock fight? Rock fight, Rock fight.
Colin True
00:59:47.100 - 00:59:47.740
Rock fight.