Today on THE ROCK FIGHT (an outdoor podcast that aims for the head) Colin and Justin break down some of the more notable stories to come out of the outdoor industry and community.
They start with the implications of new legislation in California that will ban single-use propane canisters in 2028. They also talk about a man who got lost while camping in BC and was recently found after 50 days. And lastly they talk about why hiking is great based off of the role hiking played in the discovery of a 280 million year old fossil.
They of course wrap things up with The Parting Shot where Colin takes aim at his former employer and Justin airs his frustration with hangtags.
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Episode Transcript
Colin True
00:00:00.360 - 00:00:42.115
Western North Carolina businesses, they need your financial support now more than ever.
In the aftermath of Hurricane Helene this month, Darby Communications, based in Asheville, North Carolina, is donating its ad space here on the Rock fight to help other outdoor businesses in western North Carolina get back on their feet.
The outdoor industry is a major contributor to western North Carolina's economy, and Darby Communications is asking people to donate to the Outdoor Business Alliance Hurricane Helene Relief Fund, which supports outdoor industry businesses in their recovery and supports their staff as they rebuild in the wake of the storm's devastation. Now is the time to help the outdoor community help build back what we lost in western North Carolina.
Head to outdoorbusinessalliance.org and click donate Today to get started.
Chris DeMakes
00:00:42.615 - 00:00:50.315
Rock Flight. Rock Flight. Rock Flight. Rock Flight. Rock Flight. Rock Flight.
Colin True
00:00:51.335 - 00:01:08.615
Welcome to the Rock Flight, where we speak out truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head.
I'm Colin True, and joining me today, he's out there trying to buy up all the single use propane canisters in California while he still can. It's Justin Houseman.
Justin Housman
00:01:08.955 - 00:01:15.899
I mean, how many? You can only, you know, they're all. You can all. You can drink those propane canisters right now. You can just buy them all up.
Colin True
00:01:15.987 - 00:01:20.963
Yeah, I mean, actually, what's the play there? Do we buy more? Do we just go in and we're like, well, we may as well like to buy these while they're available.
Justin Housman
00:01:21.019 - 00:01:26.487
Do we have, like, a black market so that when the band goes in, you just. I don't know how you work around that.
Colin True
00:01:26.551 - 00:01:28.287
I know a guy. I know a guy up in Marin.
Justin Housman
00:01:28.351 - 00:01:36.679
Just show up in a trench coat, open it up, click, click, click, clang. Like, that'd be pretty. I said to the AI character, I.
Colin True
00:01:36.687 - 00:01:39.183
Think there's a rock. There's an action figure coming out of that one, buddy.
Justin Housman
00:01:39.239 - 00:01:50.695
Do you remember how that was a. That was a thing in. In. In our cartoons as a kid? There were. There were people always selling. It was always watches. It seemed like some.
Some sketchy dude opens his trench coat and it's just full of watches, like.
Colin True
00:01:50.735 - 00:01:52.359
Littered with, like, illegal shit.
Justin Housman
00:01:52.447 - 00:02:06.757
And it's like Huey, Dewey, and Louie going, well, I'll buy one for Uncle Scrooge or whatever. It seemed like that was a common thing.
But, I mean, I'll ask you, have you ever had a person open a trench coat full of, like, illicit items trying to sell them to you? Has this ever happened to you in real life?
Colin True
00:02:06.821 - 00:02:16.585
Never. Never.
I'm gonna let's put that up there with quicksand of things that I thought would play more of a role in my life, that have paid zero role in my life based off of pop culture as a kid.
Justin Housman
00:02:17.205 - 00:02:18.341
That's a fun idea.
Colin True
00:02:18.413 - 00:02:20.949
I thought for sure quicksand was like a real life problem.
Justin Housman
00:02:21.037 - 00:02:26.521
I think it is kind of. Right? I don't know, Narnia, maybe it's an.
Colin True
00:02:26.553 - 00:02:32.401
Issue like screenwriters in like the 30s. Like hey me, do you know that guy got caught in quicksand? Oh, that's good. That's good.
Justin Housman
00:02:32.433 - 00:02:35.169
Write it into the screen. It happened one time.
Colin True
00:02:35.257 - 00:02:55.563
Well, today we are going to hit some of the more notable stories that come out of a very slow outdoor news cycle because of, you know, Thanksgiving holiday and all that. But before we get to that, we need you everybody listening to this to follow and rate the Rock Fight wherever you're listening on any podcast app.
We had a, we had a killer follow month in November, Justin. I'll let you know. Yeah, we did like literally hundreds of new followers, which is pretty dope. So thank you out there.
Justin Housman
00:02:55.619 - 00:02:56.499
Yeah, that's good.
Colin True
00:02:56.627 - 00:03:11.299
And leave a five star rating.
Also, folks, if you are you subscribed to Rock Fights newsletter because if you like the top notch content you get here on the Rock Fight, our weekly newsletter has content you can't get anywhere else. So head to Rock Fight Co. Click join. The mailing list comes out every Tuesday.
Justin Housman
00:03:11.427 - 00:03:17.003
I think you stumbled, I think you kind of stumbled on that because you felt a little awkward because you're the one that writes the. You're the one that writes the newsletter and you're.
Colin True
00:03:17.059 - 00:03:18.091
I'm not much of a self promoter.
Justin Housman
00:03:18.123 - 00:03:19.655
Just praise, just praising yourself.
Colin True
00:03:20.425 - 00:03:30.337
If you've seen this awesome newsletter I wrote, I'm like, right? It's so good. It's so good. Justin, I hear you promote a. You host your own little podcast. What's up with that?
Justin Housman
00:03:30.401 - 00:03:32.937
Little. You're on it too.
Colin True
00:03:33.081 - 00:03:34.725
I know. That's why it's little.
Justin Housman
00:03:36.865 - 00:04:12.221
That's your new favorite podcast, Gear and Beer, where we talk about gear and we drink beers while we're doing it, which I can't think of a better combination. I mean it's not. Alliteration aside, it's just a great, it's just a goddamn good combination. It's also a listener driven show.
So we answer your questions about gear and would love some about beer too. So throw those at us. And Justin, Certified Cicerone.
That's why I can tell you why all of your opinions about beer are wrong and why, why all mine are right. And I think that's really what we're looking for in a podcast in 2024. You know, I know it all host.
They can kind of just explain to you why your taste is bad.
Colin True
00:04:12.333 - 00:04:13.789
Should we start the Justin is Right.
Justin Housman
00:04:13.837 - 00:04:21.593
Podcast, if that's what you're looking for? No, actually mostly talking about how all beers is pretty much. It's like pizza. Like all beer is pretty much good.
Colin True
00:04:21.649 - 00:04:22.449
That's pretty good.
Justin Housman
00:04:22.537 - 00:05:17.973
It's pretty good. Anyway, yeah. So send us your questions for gear and beer.
You can send that right to our regular Gmail address@myrockfightgmail.com In fact, all of your email feedback can go there.
And while you're doing that, while you're sending us gear and beer questions and just general, you know, rock fight thoughts, think up some questions for our new show segment. Our new segment, good save, good save.
Gear Abbey, which is coming out in the next couple months, probably where we'll have a rock star regular guest who is Gear Abby.
And she's going to answer all of your burning questions about the outdoors, whether that's romantic advice, food advice, probably bathroom advice, all that kind of fun stuff. So you can send those questions to us@myrockfightmail.com Speaking of deer, I wonder if we'll talk about the.
I don't know if it's on the outline, but the deer running into the, into the, into the.
Colin True
00:05:18.069 - 00:05:18.949
Did you see that video?
Justin Housman
00:05:18.997 - 00:05:21.101
It's pretty, it's pretty funny. It's pretty amazing.
Colin True
00:05:21.213 - 00:05:31.157
I saw that on, I don't know, some social media platform over the weekend. And then, and then I realized I was. That was in New York, apparently, where a bunch of deer charged into like a turkey trot.
Justin Housman
00:05:31.221 - 00:05:37.717
Basically, you're safe. You're on pavement. It's just through a neighborhood deers or something. Nope, I don't want to go trail running.
Colin True
00:05:37.741 - 00:05:40.397
I'll roll my ankle on the, on the dirt road. I'll get hurt.
Justin Housman
00:05:40.501 - 00:05:44.621
Like somebody, I mean, they like carted somebody off to the hospital. It was pretty serious.
Colin True
00:05:44.813 - 00:05:47.637
It looks like maybe it's like an AI generated video. It doesn't even look.
Justin Housman
00:05:47.661 - 00:05:47.997
It doesn't look.
Colin True
00:05:48.021 - 00:05:48.525
When you watch it.
Justin Housman
00:05:48.565 - 00:05:59.585
No, it doesn't look real. It makes no sense.
It's like it actually does look kind of like one of those AI videos that are just total nonsense where someone's at the grocery store and they're shopping cartoons of a submarine or something. It looked like all of a sudden there's deer.
Colin True
00:06:00.805 - 00:06:09.217
It's a nice crowd of people.
They're all like, oh, they have their license run before their Thanksgiving dinner and then just they get all annihilated by these four deer that got running into the fr. It was crazy.
Justin Housman
00:06:09.281 - 00:06:17.297
It's the animal apocalypse. We deserve it. It's a long time coming and frankly, I'm here for it. I'm going to join the side of the animals, I think.
Colin True
00:06:17.401 - 00:06:36.105
All right, well, let's start the show by entering the house of Housman.
According to your article, Justin, on nationalparkstraveler.org earlier this fall our home state of California passed legislation that would effectively ban the sale of single use propane canisters starting in January of 2028. So we only have three years left to get in all our single use canister.
Justin Housman
00:06:36.185 - 00:06:38.213
Use it or lose it.
Colin True
00:06:38.409 - 00:06:48.525
This new law only impacts single use canisters, not the refillable canisters, much to the relief of outdoor brand Ignic. But anyway, Justin, what else can you tell us about this new law?
Justin Housman
00:06:48.645 - 00:08:03.581
Well, it's been in the works for a while now. Legislation is complicated, obviously. So a California bill came out in 2022 that proposed the same thing and it has a different number.
So I have no idea if this is the same exact legislation or not. All I know is that it was approved or you know, it passed the state legislature earlier this year and then Newsom finally signed it. So now boom.
Law for real. I thought this was happening before, but apparently not. And so I think he signed it on November 4th or something.
So this is this, this law is real deal. Hits January 28th. Now what's interesting is I think a lot of people's first reaction is who gives a shit about single use propane canisters?
I mean it just doesn't seem like something I've been camping like, well, but I mean like, just like what to do with it. Like I've never really given up much thought.
You know, I don't go enough of them for it to be this thing where I have all these propane cancers lying around. Now granted that's because I have an ignic refillable propane cancer. But even before I don't.
I mean I would use them a couple a year I guess, maybe, I don't know, I don't remember. I never really thought much about it. And where I live, sports basement, the local outdoor chain has a. You can, you can.
I don't know what they do with them. I don't know. I never really ask, is it, are they recycling them, Are they just properly disposing of them? I never really Knew I just walk.
Colin True
00:08:03.613 - 00:08:04.869
About back and throw them in a dumpster.
Justin Housman
00:08:04.917 - 00:08:12.385
I just, I just handed them. I just hand an empty one to the confused checkout person every time I would buy something and here you go. What is it?
I don't even know if they actually.
Colin True
00:08:12.505 - 00:08:14.125
Guy that comes in here once in a while.
Justin Housman
00:08:16.505 - 00:08:51.554
So. But I started looking into it when I saw because I actually wrote about this when the bill first came out for Adventure Journal a couple years ago.
But when this passed, I started looking a bit more into it for National Parks Traveler. And I was surprised at how much of a pain in the ass these things are to deal with.
If you are in any way involved in waste management, according to, and I forget what, who did the study, it costs each like the state of California, basically 64 bucks per or maybe not the state of California, your local municipality, whoever is paying for your trash, your waste management, $64 per canister to dispose of them properly.
Colin True
00:08:51.714 - 00:08:55.494
So I just throw it in my trash can, 64 bucks to the taxpayers.
Justin Housman
00:08:55.874 - 00:10:36.423
Now apparently the reason being is that they actually have to employ special or not special people.
But you know, people that just kind of look out for this sort of thing because if there's, there's little, there's, no matter how you know it's empty for your tank, but there's still some propane in it. Yeah. And so that's a huge hazard to just have baking around in landfills all the time.
And so they have to pay people to actually sort these things and puncture them with a special tool which you can get, you can get tools to puncture canisters before you throw them away to sort of work around this. But anyway, point is it's expensive for four states, counties and cities to deal with it.
And some counties in California, I know, Butte county for sure, have already sort of unilaterally banned them in this, in their own county just for, for this very reason. So this isn't, this isn't necessarily so. You know, the reactions, you know, I know you're going to ask what's the reaction been?
A lot of people kind of think, oh, this is just California going too far with a progressive policy, who care, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, but, but this isn't, it's not even a climate change issue for, for these counties. It's not.
I mean, part of it is that we burning propane is bad, but a lot of it from the county level is just we can't afford to deal with these things all the time. And the same thing with park service, the Park Service, you know, all the campgrounds has all propane canisters in the garbage every single year.
And so it actually makes a lot of sense considering it's pretty easy to refill a propane canister. So the, the workaround is you can buy them now, the one pound size that are refillable, they're like 50 bucks.
But there's only one brand I know of called Flame King that makes them. I'm sure there are other brands. I've never used one just because that's. That's a small amount to, like, refill all the time.
So I kind of think that people will just gravitate toward. If you camp enough to. For this to matter, why wouldn't you? You're going to end up gravitating toward a larger one you can refill.
Colin True
00:10:36.479 - 00:11:07.813
The only reason I have the small ones is because it's easy to walk into a, you know, a Walmart or an REI or whatever and pick up a small one, you know, and then it's like. And replace it when you're done.
And I, you know, for the little that I camp, like, it lasts a few years usually, you know, and then it's like, then you go get another one. But why would I not just get an ignic or something that's a little bit bigger? Because it's like you're backpacking with these things. I mean, it's.
It's. Why not, I guess. And yeah, the reason it's a good point about, you know, is this California overstepping their bounds. I kind of.
One reason I wanted to talk about it is, yeah, we are in California and this impacts us first. But it also typically means that you could probably expect this to happen in other places.
Justin Housman
00:11:07.869 - 00:11:24.221
I would assume. Yeah, I would assume. I mean, like, obviously your first thought goes to something like air pollution requirements for cars.
You know, California sets the tone.
I would expect this to happen elsewhere because other states are gonna be dealing with the same issue in terms of dealing of, you know, states where there's not a lot of camping, I guess probably won't.
Colin True
00:11:24.333 - 00:11:26.589
But why does this take so long? I mean, two years.
Justin Housman
00:11:26.717 - 00:11:27.077
I don't know.
Colin True
00:11:27.101 - 00:11:57.041
This is kind of like, is it about the public? The feared backlash cause the same thing. Like, we recently passed the plastic ban law that's coming, right?
So in a couple years, we're not gonna be able to get plastic bag. And I'll fully admit there are times when I forget to bring my bags and I'm like, yeah, all right, I'll get a few store bought bags.
And then, you know, I try to do my best to bring it back to the store because you can't recycle those in your home container. You got to bring them back to the store or whatever. But also. Yeah, you know what, in a few years I'm not going to do that.
And so like that's what's going to. You just have to deal with it. I think this is kind of the same thing. It's like this is just like a no brainer.
Justin Housman
00:11:57.153 - 00:12:29.865
It seems like it to me. I mean, it seems like it to me.
It also doesn't affect the ones that I'm much more likely to go through, which are the isobutane canisters that use for backpacking. The smaller, the smaller canisters, those aren't applicable here. And I presume that's because they're not used as much.
And I don't know of a way to refill an isobutane canister because they're not using, they don't use propane. These isobutane and so that, you know, and I'm more likely to go through those.
And I always feel a little bit weird about it because it's just this little bit of metal that I use, you know, for a few times and I throw it in the garbage. But.
Colin True
00:12:29.945 - 00:12:30.565
Right.
Justin Housman
00:12:30.985 - 00:12:43.655
You know, I don't, I don't know, there's. You can buy stuff on ebay where you can use an adapter to refill those as well as the currently existing £1 non refillable canisters.
But I would not recommend doing it. I mean, this isn't something to screw around with.
Colin True
00:12:43.775 - 00:12:56.335
Yeah. And this isn't even me being like a Mr. Environmentalist. I feel like if the only reason to not do something. Yeah.
Is like to say because boy, that would be really inconvenient. If that doesn't exist anymore, then fuck that. Like, no, it's too bad.
Justin Housman
00:12:56.455 - 00:13:30.367
I don't know what, I mean, honestly, I don't know what people are going to do that are used to this. I mean, if you don't gamp enough for it to matter for you and you have no way of refilling one, are you still going to throw it in the.
I mean, you're still going to throw it away. Right? Like, so that, that's a question I have. I mean, yeah, they're going to be more, way more expensive.
You know, you got to figure even if price comes down to 25, 30 bucks, like your average family who wants to cook outside at a Campground show rolls up to Walmart and is like, holy shit. Propane cancers are 30. Like, I don't know what they're going to do. Like, is it worth it for them to buy a five gallon one so they can.
Or five pound one so they can refill it? Maybe. I don't know.
Colin True
00:13:30.491 - 00:13:39.031
All right, so if we're still doing this podcast in the summer of 2028, we need to make sure we remember to like check out TikTok or Instagram reels or whatever for the tantrums that are being thrown.
Justin Housman
00:13:39.103 - 00:13:39.895
People are going to be so mad.
Colin True
00:13:39.935 - 00:13:42.895
People walking. Where's the fuel? I'm going camping.
Justin Housman
00:13:43.015 - 00:13:52.679
People are going to be so mad. I know, I can't wait.
And it's entirely possible that landfills will just fill up with way more expensive propane canisters that are designed to be refilled. I guess theoretically at least you could just.
Colin True
00:13:52.687 - 00:13:53.303
That's a good point.
Justin Housman
00:13:53.359 - 00:13:57.591
You could just take it and I don't know, and refill it yourself if you're the waste management company.
Colin True
00:13:57.623 - 00:13:59.687
So I just throw this one away now? No, you refill it.
Justin Housman
00:13:59.711 - 00:14:06.595
No, I'll just throw it away. No, I'll throw it away. People are going to get. I mean it's like this whole country is basically a giant middle finger to being told what to do.
Like at any given point.
Colin True
00:14:06.635 - 00:14:11.003
That's what I mean. Like, oh God, people, people can throw away the.
Justin Housman
00:14:11.059 - 00:14:18.603
People buy them and throw them away just to. People will, like red counties will make shows of like buying the refillable ones and throwing them the garbage.
Colin True
00:14:18.739 - 00:14:19.203
Right.
Justin Housman
00:14:19.299 - 00:14:22.755
Wasting fifty hundred dollars at a time just to, just to prove a point.
Colin True
00:14:22.835 - 00:14:34.867
Well, the next thing, according to Justin's all time favorite publication, the inertia, on October 17th of this year, 20 year old Sam Benestek, I think I pronounced that correctly. Benestek. Benestek.
Justin Housman
00:14:34.971 - 00:14:35.915
I can't help you.
Colin True
00:14:36.035 - 00:15:01.515
Yeah. Left his home to spend upwards of 10 days camping in British Columbia's Redfern Kiley Park.
But after Sam became lost, he wasn't seen again for 50 days. There was of course, a long search for him after it was discovered that he was indeed missing.
And then last week he was discovered by workers who were grading a park service road.
And Sam was walking down the road with a stick in each hand for balance and had his sleeping bag, which he had cut in half, wrapped around his legs for warmth.
Justin Housman
00:15:01.895 - 00:15:05.031
I mean, sure, he made a skirt. He made like a down skirt, right?
Colin True
00:15:05.103 - 00:15:19.895
He's like, you know, Rumple might sponsor this guy. What's happening in the Pacific Northwest in this. A couple of months after Robert Shock had that similar experience in Washington.
But he was much less prepared. But we talked about that on the rock fight last September. I mean is this aliens? What's happening up there?
Justin Housman
00:15:20.015 - 00:15:35.443
Well, it could be aliens. They just abduct people and they just set them down with like strangers. They can't quite remember what he did.
What this guy have like some hiking poles, give him some sticks. He had like a bag. I don't know. I think maybe they were pants and they just cut it.
Colin True
00:15:35.499 - 00:15:38.187
Check out the lost and found in the. In the spaceship.
Justin Housman
00:15:38.251 - 00:16:04.439
You know, I mean Pacific Northwest is a. It could be Sasquatch. You know, maybe they. Maybe he. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know what they would do with the person for a while.
But it is a bit weird. But I mean it's. I don't know. I feel like when I first. When I first went to Santa Cruz, which is not in the Pacific Northwest but may as well be. Yeah.
I mean it kind of. I suppose Northern California is like edging in that direction. But you just like meet so many people who are there because they're lost.
Like they didn't know where else to go. They thought they'd find themselves there.
Colin True
00:16:04.487 - 00:16:06.803
You know what I meant to be.
Justin Housman
00:16:06.809 - 00:16:28.457
Like I just never felt. I just never fit in anywhere. I didn't. I don't know. I don't know. I just. This seemed fine, whatever. Like there's. I like the trees. You know.
I feel like the Pacific Northwest probably has a lot of that sort of thing where people are just, you know, or just living amongst all that rain just does something to you. I don't know. But it's also easy to get lost there because just like. I mean it's not a lot going on. Yeah, it's very easy to get lost.
Colin True
00:16:28.521 - 00:16:35.289
Easy to get disoriented. And actually I did find a follow up articles from People actually about Robert Schock and kind of recounting what I saw that.
Justin Housman
00:16:35.377 - 00:16:36.689
I saw that. Yeah.
Colin True
00:16:36.857 - 00:16:44.969
So it's not the same but the similarity of the. They were. They were discovered relatively close to like work crews who are just out like doing stuff. So. Which says to me that like they.
Justin Housman
00:16:44.977 - 00:17:12.005
Were not far away from duper deep into the wilderness. But it's so easy. That's the thing. In that zone it is so easy.
It is like we even just cutting down a tree the other day, you know, I had a really good idea where we were. You know, we left. We were maybe 50 yards from our car.
But anyway, you know, it's like you turn around, if I couldn't hear one of my kids, I start to panic because every tree looks the same. You know, it's a good point. I know our car's, like, right there. I probably could have, like, pulled the key out and beep, beep, beep, beep.
And, like, found it. So it's easy to get lost, but. Yeah, that's a good point.
Colin True
00:17:12.045 - 00:17:24.229
I mean, these. These forests. I remember. I mean, even was that, like, a walk in the woods where Bill Bryson talked about.
He kind of got off trail up in Maine, you know, and he's kind of getting these dense forests, and you'd be. Get turned around and, like, wait a minute, which way was the trail? And before you know it, you're walking in the wrong direction.
Justin Housman
00:17:24.277 - 00:17:43.912
One of saddest stories I remember from covering it, AJ was a woman who was in her 60s, I think, on hiking. I don't think she was hiking the whole 18, just part of it. And I don't remember where she was, what state she was in, but she.
She got lost, disoriented, and died of, I don't know, thirst or hunger or both. She was, like, five. I want to say she was five meters from the trail.
Colin True
00:17:44.048 - 00:17:44.544
Oh, stop.
Justin Housman
00:17:44.584 - 00:17:45.976
She. She just couldn't find it.
Colin True
00:17:46.000 - 00:17:46.816
Just couldn't find it.
Justin Housman
00:17:46.880 - 00:17:47.456
Yeah.
Colin True
00:17:47.600 - 00:17:51.152
All it takes is one step in the wrong. In the wrong direction you're not going to go.
Justin Housman
00:17:51.208 - 00:17:55.305
She probably just kind of panicked, and she did what she was supposed to do. She just sat there and waited.
Colin True
00:17:55.465 - 00:17:59.569
But I was going to ask if you think these things happen way more than we. Often than we read about, but I.
Justin Housman
00:17:59.577 - 00:18:14.645
Mean, that's an interesting question, because theoretically, you would. You would say this used to happen all the time.
Well, it's probably always happened at the same frequency, but now we have national news constantly, so we can find out about it. I mean, probably. Yeah. Yeah, probably. But people are probably less likely to get lost now because they have phones.
Colin True
00:18:15.025 - 00:18:28.045
That's true. So I don't know when, like, you were like.
And not to bring up colonialism, but think about people like the settlers moving west across, like, the Great Plains for the first time. Like, there's no trails. Right. They're just taking a wagon across. Like, you know, I guess we go this direction.
Justin Housman
00:18:28.205 - 00:18:39.397
This. This looks easier than that, right? Yeah. I mean, the Donner party was. They were there for more than 50 days.
They were there from something like November to February.
Colin True
00:18:39.541 - 00:18:45.453
Oh, my God. So long. That's the dead of winter. The Dead of winter, it's like 9,000ft or whatever.
Justin Housman
00:18:45.509 - 00:19:33.905
Not even that high. Like, donner Lake's probably 7,000. I can't. I can't be there without thinking about it. But it's like, we don't. I don't go there all the time.
But, you know, if you're going to go to Truckee, from where I live, you pass through, you go over Donner Summit and you pass next to Donner Lake. And where we like to kind of have our snow fun is right next to Donner Lake. And so we go by it all the time.
And inevitably it occurs to me, like, my wife will be driving or something. I'll just be like, eating pretzels, just like drinking a coffee, just fiddling with a podcast.
And I'm thinking, I'll be like, oh, I wonder how far I am from someone who had to eat a corpse. And now. And if you could just like snap your fingers and they could see how. Yeah, it's just like, right, Susan? A warm car. Like, there's no issues.
No, because there's nothing. And they're just like, God, 20 degrees.
Colin True
00:19:33.945 - 00:19:35.265
I say that's fine. I'm in a car.
Justin Housman
00:19:35.345 - 00:19:47.233
That sounds great. Tubing will be fun. Yeah. So I don't know how this guy did it, but him, you know, I don't. It's.
These guys should all go on the like, 8 million history channel survival shows, though, because obviously they know what they're doing, right?
Colin True
00:19:47.329 - 00:19:49.657
They made it that long. They should get like, Robert Shock.
Justin Housman
00:19:49.681 - 00:19:54.177
Should get invited to a show, just be like, well, here's what you do. I bet you sit here and you don't eat.
Colin True
00:19:54.361 - 00:20:03.445
Like, hey, it's so and so from Discovery Channel or whatever, or Max or whatever network it's on. You ever think about being on alone? You already did it once or do it again.
Justin Housman
00:20:03.905 - 00:20:15.547
Maybe that's like super, super offensive. Like, are you kidding me? Like, that was the most horrific experience of my life and you want me to just freak? Fine, I'll do it. How much? Hey, you.
Colin True
00:20:15.731 - 00:20:16.403
Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:20:16.539 - 00:20:17.947
No, I mean outdoor retailers.
Colin True
00:20:18.051 - 00:20:18.875
Oh, sorry.
Justin Housman
00:20:18.955 - 00:20:34.875
Yeah, obviously. Listen up. You're sick of it, aren't you? Another sales rep walks in. They look like Colin.
Probably they're showing off some flimsy forgettable apparel line that looks like it was meant for a mall. So called outdoor brands turning out gear that won't make it past the doors of a Costco come Saturday.
Colin True
00:20:34.995 - 00:20:37.851
You could be an outdoor. You could be a rep. It's not just me.
Justin Housman
00:20:37.923 - 00:20:53.905
It's because I'm so Like, things look good on me. It's like a mannequin walked in here. Are you kidding me? Look at that. You need something else. Outdoor retailers.
You need gear built for granite and ice, for the steep and the cold. You need a brand that's stripped down and built up for real wilderness.
Colin True
00:20:54.725 - 00:20:58.085
What could I do? If I'm the retailer in this case, what could I do?
Justin Housman
00:20:58.165 - 00:21:19.879
Well, what you need to do is you need to get your hands on some Northwest Alpine. Oh, yeah. You see, back in 2010, Northwest Alpine set out to make the apparel that the big brands were forgetting all about. They got caught up.
The others, that I should say, the big brands got caught up at fashion shows. But Northwest Alpine, no, they went right back to the essentials column. They make the year. That's simple, light, strong, and built to last.
Colin True
00:21:19.967 - 00:21:22.767
Hold on. This is. This is my favorite part. What part? You're gonna say, this is gonna be great.
Justin Housman
00:21:22.791 - 00:21:26.079
Here we go. I want to get ready for it. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. Where do you think they make it?
Colin True
00:21:26.167 - 00:21:27.295
Where? Where? Tell me where.
Justin Housman
00:21:27.375 - 00:21:29.519
Right here in the usa. The US of A.
Colin True
00:21:29.607 - 00:21:30.471
So good.
Justin Housman
00:21:30.663 - 00:21:39.025
You're thinking. Wait, you mean Northwest Alpine's black spider hoodie, made with polar tech power grid is sewn up in the States?
Yeah, that's where it's sewn up, Colin.
Colin True
00:21:39.145 - 00:21:39.777
Amazing.
Justin Housman
00:21:39.881 - 00:21:44.285
If you're tired of black, don't worry. They have other colors. They have colors. Actual colors too.
Colin True
00:21:44.985 - 00:21:47.297
So it's the black spider hoodie. Right? So that's.
Justin Housman
00:21:47.361 - 00:22:17.595
Yeah, but there's black and then there's blacker than black. There's other, you know, they. But they, they do make other colors besides the black spider hoodie.
So here we are in a time when everything is uncertain. Certain costs are going up, tariffs are looming, and boy, are they looming. Old bloated brands are hiking up prices.
Northwest Alpine's here with American made gear ready to stock your shelves.
You can get in touch by sending an email to infomalpine.com and you can set up a line showing today, northwest Alpine made here for all the right reasons.
Colin True
00:22:19.055 - 00:22:26.515
All right. ExplorersWeb put up a story a couple weeks back, but we haven't had a chance to talk about it. Scientists have.
Concerned have confirmed that a fossil discovered by a hiker.
Justin Housman
00:22:26.595 - 00:22:28.923
Well, they were concerned about the age and they confirmed it.
Colin True
00:22:29.019 - 00:22:29.483
They were.
Justin Housman
00:22:29.539 - 00:22:30.307
They did.
Colin True
00:22:30.491 - 00:23:09.983
So it was a fossil that was discovered by a hiker in 2023 that is part of a 280 million year old ecosystem. In April 2023, Claudia Stefansson was hiking in the Italian Alps and she discovered a slab of rock that had what looked like footprints on it.
This is, I think, the coolest part of the story.
She took a picture, passed it to a friend who's a nature photographer, who then passed it along to a paleontologist, who then invited other experts to inv. Investigate.
And what they found through this amazing game of telephone, it basically led to this discovery of what they called a treasure trove of fossilized tracks of prehistoric. Prehistoric reptiles, insects, anthropods. Arthropods.
Justin Housman
00:23:10.039 - 00:23:10.735
Arthropods.
Colin True
00:23:10.815 - 00:23:21.645
Arthropods and amphibians, all of which predate the dinosaurs. So you sent this over to me like, a week ago, Justin. You were pretty excited about it. What is it about this discovery that got you pretty fired up?
Justin Housman
00:23:21.755 - 00:23:36.825
Well, one, I love old things. As an old thing myself, I do. I have a soft spot for old stuff. But to me, this is. This is. I don't know.
I guess for some reason, I feel a need to justify hiking as a pursuit in and of itself in the outdoor space.
Colin True
00:23:36.945 - 00:23:40.777
You mean, like, just. You have to have reason just to go hike around the woods or whatever?
Justin Housman
00:23:40.841 - 00:24:19.305
No, not for me, but I feel like it's not. It's. It's got to be like, the least sort of cool or interesting, like, outdoor activity, right? Like, everybody hikes.
I remember reading an article once that Brendan Leonard wrote about years ago about how when he first realized he kind of enjoyed hiking, you know, he had always viewed it as a thing to get to some. You know, like, I hike to get to the base of a mountain I'm gonna. Or a rock I'm gonna climb or something I'm gonna do, right?
And then he finally, at one point, he realized, I'm kind of just enjoying just the getting to their part, you know, and I'll just go for, like, a hike. And I don't know. I mean, obviously hiking is really popular, but it just feels like it's. It's kind of ignored amongst the outdoor crowd, right?
Colin True
00:24:19.845 - 00:24:20.357
It is.
Justin Housman
00:24:20.421 - 00:27:02.461
You know, you trail run, sure, but hike, I don't know. But here's why it's awesome. You can see things. You're at the pace of discovery, right?
You're never going to see, you know, how many times I've like, ridden past a rattlesnake right by my face on my mountain bike. And then someone. Someone else maybe is doing something and they've stopped and they pointed out. I didn't even see. That happens all the time.
But I mean, my great example, I was out hiking with my kids the other day. On a trail I miraculously haven't found yet, which I thought for sure I'd hike around here. Beautiful trail.
And I'm walking past stuff, and my little kids are finding stuff. Look at that. Dead giant salamander. Look at that. Look at that.
And part of us are lower to the ground, but it's because they're walking even slower than me. And I just think that's great. And so to me, this kind of thing is like, this is. This is why you hike, right? Like, this is. You're.
You're at the pace of discovery, which means maybe you have a little book with you that's telling you what the trees are, what the plants are, what the insects are. Maybe you're using an app. You have the time to stop and do that sort of stuff. And it's like, you're not.
You know, for all I know, she was trying to set an fkt. And this. None of this applies. I don't know. But I just. It's just hiking is. Hiking to me is just such a special thing to do because you're.
Not only are you immersed in the environment, but you can actually really, like, take it in. And so, I mean, this is the kind of thing where if you're speeding through on a bike, you might glance, be like, oh, footprint, right?
You know, figure something out, a dog out there, you know, or whatever. So this is the kind of stuff that you can. That you can see.
It reminds me of the time when I was working as an archaeologist and I had my, like, the coolest.
The only time I ever, like, discovered anything, even though that's not really the right term to use, was when I was on a survey, which is, you're just hiking. And we were up in the. I'm sure I may have told the story on the show before, but we were up. Is King's out of King.
King's Candy national park, pretty high up, trying to find. Just kind of looking to see if there are any artifacts over.
Over the Kearsarge Pass, basically, which we're just looking for new east west passes that. That. That the indigenous people may have taken.
But anyway, at one point, you know, we're kind of looking around one area and we're above tree line a little bit. It was kind of the first time you could really get a good view of what was around you after a few weeks of just being in the trees. And I.
I saw this little knoll overlooking this creek, and I was like, that's a great place to have lunch, you know, and like, let's go sit down there. And as I was walking down there, I'm like, I wonder if we'll find something. And sure enough, boom.
There's a lithic scatter of the most beautiful, like, purple obsidian I'd ever seen. And as you could just, you know, I don't know, it could have been 200 years ago, could have been 5,000 years ago.
Someone sat right there and napped a little arrowhead. I mean, it's just awesome. And it's just like.
That's the kind of thing, again, you don't see unless you're just walking slowly and paying attention to it. And so that's what makes me excited about that. Just the kind of stuff that you can find still. And it's pretty incredible.
I mean, I can't conceive of 280 million years ago. Jesus. God.
Colin True
00:27:02.573 - 00:27:46.783
No. I mean, the discovery itself is cool. Someone probably would have found it. But the fact that it was a hiker, that's a really good point.
I think I wrote about. In the. In the newsletter just a few weeks ago about a thing about, like, can we make hiking cool again?
Like, not that it's not cool, but it is this kind of. It's exactly to your point. It's the. Usually the activity that I think that most people come to first when they discover the outdoors. Right.
It's like, whether it's a nature walk or whatever. And I definitely did it, kind of like, did it for a while, then quickly let that take me to do other things.
And then now, as I get older, kind of coming back to it, appreciating it so much more. But there's really, like, no. Even on the. On the industry side, like, there's no. What are the brands that make hiking cool?
There are brands that support it, and it's not that they're not cool, but it's not like no one leans into it, like, fucking hiking rules. And we are celebrating hiking. I think Hiking rules by itself would.
Justin Housman
00:27:46.799 - 00:27:50.215
Be a good brand, just. And just. Just making cool hiking stuff, you know?
Colin True
00:27:50.255 - 00:27:50.839
Right.
Justin Housman
00:27:51.007 - 00:28:00.975
I mean, obviously, it does feel like. I think Brendan was onto something where it feels like the hiking aspect is generally a means to an end. I mean, I guess backpacking is hiking.
That's true, right?
Colin True
00:28:01.015 - 00:28:02.079
Yeah, it is. Right.
Justin Housman
00:28:02.127 - 00:28:09.585
But. But, you know, I don't know.
There's something different about having your stuff with you and planning to sleep out there versus a hike where you know you're coming back.
Colin True
00:28:09.705 - 00:28:09.961
Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:28:09.993 - 00:28:18.737
I don't know. But not like this afternoon.
I will either go For a hike or a trail run, almost certainly I will have completely different experiences, depending on which one I pick completely.
Colin True
00:28:18.841 - 00:28:20.585
And think about how close those two things are to each other.
Justin Housman
00:28:20.625 - 00:28:22.665
They're basically the same. They're basically the same thing.
Colin True
00:28:22.705 - 00:28:23.097
Yeah.
Justin Housman
00:28:23.201 - 00:29:10.157
So I just, yeah, any, anything I can do to, to, you know, kind of, of bring the joy of hiking to other people, I think I'll always want to do. And this is part of the reason why I've never, you know, I'm not. Odds of you finding a 280 million year old fossil aren't great, but maybe they are.
I mean, that's the other cool thing about this article is like you think we've found everything you think that the world is. It's been scoured, you know, so repeatedly by scientists, by, by everything, by drones, by satellites, by whatever.
And you can still stumble on something like, this is pretty damn right out in the open. She didn't have to like dig for it. It was just right there.
I also, I like, I do like the idea that you could take that you could go outside right now and like walk through mud and accidentally and somehow, for some reason it's preserved for hundreds of millions of years, like just. And someone will find it and be like, huh.
Colin True
00:29:10.261 - 00:29:19.053
Well, the discovery itself, like we, I think, I think we focused on the right thing. It's the thing I'm most interested in the story as well. However, 280 million, like predating the dinosaurs. That's pretty amazing.
Justin Housman
00:29:19.229 - 00:29:40.001
That's like when that's like, I don't know, I don't remember. That might have been Pangea. That's when, you know, probably Antarctica was the tropics. I mean, it's just. Yeah, it's pretty cool.
Also, that article was so odd. It was, here's this cool find, here's this thing. It's great. And then the kicker was like, by the way, we're all fucked because of climate change.
It's like, what does this have to do with anything at all? Do you know what I'm talking about?
Colin True
00:29:40.033 - 00:29:41.001
Yeah, yeah, I know I do.
Justin Housman
00:29:41.113 - 00:29:55.805
For no reason at all. Just like top rope. It wasn't even like, it wasn't even like, it wasn't like it melted out of a glacier.
Like it had no relation other than, hey, things age and die and the world changes and we're all going to die of climate change. It's like, oh, great, thanks.
Colin True
00:29:56.565 - 00:29:58.533
A little spoiler that we were gonna die no matter what.
Justin Housman
00:29:58.589 - 00:30:03.461
Yeah, we're all gonna die. Yeah. Yeah. Well, not, I mean, everybody Else is. I'm not.
Colin True
00:30:03.573 - 00:30:04.509
Clearly not you.
Justin Housman
00:30:04.597 - 00:30:05.509
No. No.
Colin True
00:30:05.637 - 00:30:08.665
All right, well, guess what? Because you're not gonna die, it's time for the parting shot.
Justin Housman
00:30:19.645 - 00:30:22.807
I love the burning shot. Call goes first today, I think.
Colin True
00:30:22.831 - 00:30:24.415
Did you go first last time? Do you want me to go first?
Justin Housman
00:30:24.495 - 00:30:28.039
I don't remember. It doesn't matter to me. If you're feeling it, go for it.
Colin True
00:30:28.087 - 00:31:02.839
I'll go first.
So I wrote about this in yesterday's edition of the Rock Fights newsletter, which, as you were told at the beginning of this episode, you can also receive if you go to rockfight.com and click join the mailing list.
But this week, my former employer and famed fabric maker Polartech announced the brands that would be winning their annual Apex Awards that they hand out to celebrate design innovation for garments that utilize their products. And my parting shot is for the newly redesigned trophy that they're handing out.
Because the previous Apex award trophy was a hand forged pewter statue of a wizard that we named Malden. This happened actually when I was at the brand.
Justin Housman
00:31:02.887 - 00:31:07.063
How funny is the word pewter? Can I just jump in and just say pewter is a hilarious word?
Colin True
00:31:07.159 - 00:31:54.229
It is a hilarious word. And the new trophy is basically a recycled plastic pyramid. Not basically. It's what it is.
I don't know what the mandate was for an updated Apex Award trophy. Maybe there were sour grapes from those inside Polotech who never liked the Wizard. Maybe it was a cost in logistics, savings.
The wizard was hard to make. Or maybe they just felt it was time to do something different.
All I do know is what they came up with was not a worthy successor to Malden the Wizard, which I'll put links in the show notes if you want to see what I'm talking about.
And I wish that if they were going to put Malden out to wizard pasture, then they had come up with something that was at least on par with the outgoing trophy. But hey, you know, at least some apparel designers are going to get a new plastic paperweight. So there's that. And that's.
Sorry, Polar Tech, you're in my crosshairs for the parting shot. I do not like your new trophy. It sucks. All right, what's your parting shot?
Justin Housman
00:31:54.277 - 00:32:48.503
Sorry. All right. So, I mean, I guess it's not. I was gonna say it's related, but it really isn't.
So, I mean, part of partly this is because I get a lot of new stuff, I suppose, but, you know, I wouldn't. I was packing my bag for my trip this weekend and I opened it up and there's like four hang tags drop out.
And it occurred to me, I've never looked at a hang tag in my life. I mean, unless you're looking for the price, like what are we. What. I realize that as a retailer there's probably some information on there.
There's a sku. I guess you need to know that there's some other information on it. But I mean, for the most part hang tags are so absolutely useless.
It's basically, here's a little bit of garbage to bring with you home for absolutely no reason. Where you can go to a restaurant and use your phone to get a QR code with the menu. They don't necessarily have to hand you menus anymore.
Can't we just print a QR code on a tag?
Colin True
00:32:48.599 - 00:32:49.807
Like a sewn in label? Like a new.
Justin Housman
00:32:49.831 - 00:33:57.859
Yeah, like a sewn in label. Can we just do that? Like if I really need to know what this product is called and like that it has 30% thermoplastic, gyrospirine, whatever.
Like I can see that, but nobody, I don't need to know that put that on the pop up display or the pop display, whatever. So I can see all that stuff above it.
But I just, I just don't understand why every single piece of clothing I get especially because like if it's an outdoor thing, you might just like get a new thing and throw it your car and then show up at a trailhead and you're like, shit. Like sometimes they're really the fabric. The string is too hard to like pull apart and you can't cut if you don't have a knife.
Now you're dangling a new tag around, right? And I never look at them. Nobody looks at them. No one's ever looked at them. Someone got paid to write the copy that goes on there. God bless them.
No one's looking at it. You get it, you cut it off, you throw it away. Maybe you panic because you cut it off and now you need to return it. Does it matter?
Doesn't have the tag on it. I don't know. I still don't really know what happens when you cut the tags off something. You send it back.
No idea what happens, but it's just for the love of God, nobody needs them. No one. Nobody needs hang. If you.
I guarantee if you piled up all the hang tags in the country, every new clothes piece of clothing purchase in a year, it would probably reach the Empire State Building for no reason. Just we don't. No one needs it.
Colin True
00:33:57.987 - 00:34:14.001
By the way, Justin gave to our Conversation last week about, like, a brand differentiation. You just gave some brand an idea that if they do it, I guarantee you we'll fight, we'll be successful with it.
The first brand to kind of cross that Rubicon and be like, oh, we just put a QR code in the sewn in hang tag or whatever. Yeah, people will freaking love that.
Justin Housman
00:34:14.073 - 00:34:14.329
I mean, I.
Colin True
00:34:14.337 - 00:34:17.041
Where's the thing? I would just scan this. Oh, my God, that's so awesome.
Justin Housman
00:34:17.153 - 00:34:25.577
Yeah. And then, like, you could have. I mean, presumably there are QR codes. I. Fucking hell. I've seen them. There are QR codes on hang tags.
Just put it on a label.
Colin True
00:34:25.681 - 00:34:35.201
By the way, if I can, with my phone, scan a QR code, get a menu, place my order, have the food brought out to me, and then usually cash out with it. Why do I need a hang tag on a code?
Justin Housman
00:34:35.313 - 00:34:40.025
See, that's what I mean. I mean. Cause you're just like, oh, cool, I'm gonna throw this away. Like, I'm gonna get.
Colin True
00:34:40.105 - 00:34:41.113
Gonna throw it away.
Justin Housman
00:34:41.289 - 00:34:44.293
You're giving me a dangling piece of cardboard that I have to thr.
Colin True
00:34:44.489 - 00:34:52.861
You're printing up.
Anybody who receives that box of hang tags that you're going to put on your garments, they're just looking at a box of trash because that's where it's all going to end up. That's a good parting shot.
Justin Housman
00:34:52.973 - 00:34:57.145
Thanks, man. Appreciate it. Yeah, you know, it helps when it comes from the heart, you know?
Colin True
00:34:57.885 - 00:34:59.425
I'm fucking serious.
Justin Housman
00:35:00.085 - 00:35:03.317
Kick somebody's ass. If I have to cut off another hang tag.
Colin True
00:35:03.461 - 00:35:05.285
Just on a flight to China tonight.
Justin Housman
00:35:05.325 - 00:35:13.885
He'S going to kick in the door at all the factories, trying to put something on your kid. And you're like, oh, damn it. You're like pulling the little. Especially when they're plastic, and you're just like.
Just like cutting into your circulation. Your fingers.
Colin True
00:35:13.925 - 00:35:15.053
Yeah. If you don't get it right away.
Justin Housman
00:35:15.109 - 00:35:24.785
And your daughter's like, dad, can't you just open that? You'll show up. It's hard. And you're just trying to get it off. You get it off. You're so tough.
Colin True
00:35:25.085 - 00:35:45.197
All right, man, let's wrap it up there. The Rock Fights a production Rock Fight llc for my guy, Justin Houseman. I'm Colin True. Thanks for listening. And he. I don't know.
I don't think Christa makes endorses hang tags. I think he's probably. He's here to take us out. And he hates. He hates hang tags. He also was going to sing the rock fight fight song.
We'll see you next time. Rock Fighters.
Chris DeMakes
00:35:45.261 - 00:36:41.125
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight, Rock fight? Welcome to the rock fight? Where we speak our truth?
Slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree?
We talk about human empowered outdoor activities and pic bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture, music, the latest movie reviews, Ideas that aim for the head? This is where we speak our truth? This is where we speak our truth? Rock fight, Rock fight? Rock fight? Welcome to the rock fight? Rock fight, Rock fight?
Welcome to the rock light? Rock light, Rock fight? Rock light, Rock light, Rock side? Welcome to the rock fight? Rock fight? Rat fight?
Justin Housman
00:36:43.065 - 00:36:45.505
Rock fight.