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Today on THE ROCK FIGHT (an outdoor podcast that aims for the head) Colin opens the show by digging into one of the more touchy subjects in the outdoors: Dogs and their place in our community (01:01).
Then Colin and Producer Dave talk about the news that broke last week that Backcountry.com has sold to CSC Generations (16:37) and how an executive promotion at REI and the acquisition of EMS by Mountain Warehouse show us where outdoor retail could be headed (25:09).
And of course they wrap things up with their Parting Shots (29:51)!
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Episode Transcript
Colin (00:00):
Welcome to the Rock Fight where we speak out truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True. It's Monday and you Lucky Sons of Bitches get to spend a few minutes with producer David and me as we talk about EMS versus REI, the acquisition of backcountry.com and dogs. But before we get to that, we've got a few housekeeping items. Please follow and rate the rock fight wherever you're listening on any podcast app, leave us that five star rating. Click that follow button, follow follow, click the follow. I'm going to write a little limerick about that so that you'll remember it and then you'll do it. It'll be awesome. If you like the rock fight, you'll definitely like Gear in Beer. That's our other podcast on the Rock Fight Podcast Network. Please check out that show. You can find it wherever you're listening to this podcast. And all right, let's start the show fight.
(00:55):
Alright, I've been circling this topic for a couple of months as I keep seeing different points being raised on it in different ways and it's a little bit of departure for the industry stuff we've been talking about lately, but I'll bring it back around because today I want to talk about the outdoors and dogs. Now, for you hardcore rock fighters out there looking for me to take it down some dumb ass part of the outdoor industry, hang in there. There's an industry component to this, but let me set the table first for what I want to say. So I'm a dog guy. I always have been. I think I always will be. I fucking love dogs. I currently own three, which is too many, but that's what happens when you have to quarantine for a pandemic for an entire year. You start to think, yeah, sure, why not when that third dog becomes available. But anyway, the point is I'm a dog guy and I'm also a dog in the outdoors guy. Not as much as some, I can go on adventures outside without my dog, but my little Australian shepherd is my hiking buddy and I find that going out with her adds a lot to the outdoor experience. But if you spend any time doing outdoorsy things, you know that dogs are far from a universally accepted part of our community. They are indeed inextricably linked to the identity of those who go outside.
Producer Dave (02:11):
Kind of like Birkenstocks,
Colin (02:13):
Kind of like Birkins. Yes, Crocs,
Producer Dave (02:16):
Sorry. Well, we don't go that far.
Colin (02:20):
No, but they are. I think dogs are inextricably linked to the identity of those go outside. But I look at it, they're linked just like beer is, right? Because just like for beer, there are those who don't partake in drinking beer, but there are those who don't like dogs or have no interest in owning a dog. But there are still this kind of link to the outdoors and dogs. And all of this sort of bubbled up for me and it made me think about it a lot as I was reading a post on threads this past week by outdoor journalists, Heather Rockford and Heather's original post reads as follows. She said, today in Yosemite National Park, I saw a couple with their dog hike right past the no dogs allowed sign and onto the trail they went to the top and back with their dog and none of us said a peep.
(03:05):
And she questions, is that the bystander effect? Is it our responsibility to police others? I've been mulling this over since we got back. And clearly this is a hot button topic like I've been kind of alluding to because as of this morning when I'm recording this, Heather has received 617 responses to this post. And as you would expect, they run the gamut of that played all of the social media hits. There were immediate defenses of the dog being in a place it wasn't supposed to be. There was condemnation of the people for ignoring the rules. There was outright hostility towards Heather for even posing the question, hostility for the dog owners, for breaking the rules and even others for daring to go against a pro dog point of view. There was criticism of the rules that exist in national parks when it comes to dogs.
(03:48):
And then there were those who immediately somehow connected this simple question about dogs on trails to the environment. So in short, it was a typical thread on social media. It's not hard to find topics where people weigh in like they did here. And for outdoorsy folks, any etiquette conversation will also garner responses like this. But there's an emotional component when it comes to dogs in the outdoors. Then if you say maybe we're talking about a mountain biker who doesn't understand who has right of way on the hill and it's always the hikers and the horses. Say it with me now everybody. It's the hikers and horses who have the right of way, but there's that emotional component with dogs versus something like that. Because look, dogs are part of our families. I mean, it's now common to refer to dogs as fur babies, which is something I fucking hate.
(04:35):
By the way, the only real fur baby I can think of in history was Damien in the Omen and that dude was the antichrist. So maybe we all just settle down with the whole this animal's my child bullshit. Your animal's not your child. Sorry, this is a major pet peeve of mine. Hey, the point is we're very attached to our pets. And much like with any family member rational thought will often go out the window when it comes to the types of encounters we may have when out with said family members on the trail. And similarly, there are those who are not dog people. Producer Dave, who's sitting right here with me is a cat guy. Now I can go off on a tangent for his misplaced quadr petal allegiances.
Producer Dave (05:14):
Hey Colin.
Colin (05:15):
But because I know how fraught those types of conversations can be, I'm not going there, Dave.
Producer Dave (05:19):
Okay, I'm sorry. But you know what? One sign I have never seen on a trail. No cats allowed. No
Colin (05:25):
Cats.
Producer Dave (05:25):
That's right, that's right. That's right. You know why? Because cats don't put up with that shit. Your dog's off a leash. That cat's going to solve the problem.
Colin (05:34):
Well, they accepted their place as a subpar pet. It's fine. They understand
Producer Dave (05:38):
Apex predator, subpar pet. You know what happens to that dog that's off the leash when a large cat is around? That dog disappears. No one sees the dog again.
Colin (05:48):
Apex Predator, subpar Pett is an amazing T-shirt. That's right. Little black silhouette. A cat behind it or
Producer Dave (05:57):
Something like that. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. That might be the most Gen X T-shirt. Who are you referring to in this situation? The answer is yes.
Colin (06:06):
Yes. Anyway guys, it might sound like I'm kidding around, but lemme give you some other examples of the dogs in the outdoors space. No, I'm
Producer Dave (06:12):
Not kidding. Months back around a 20 pound cat would take out most dogs on the spectrum.
Colin (06:17):
Oh, I'm not going to deny that whatsoever. A few months back, someone I'm connected to on LinkedIn posted crack me up because they posted this on LinkedIn, the business platform about how they took their dog to go climbing at a local crag. And when their dog started whining, when this person was off the deck and actually climbing someone at a different climbing party asked them to tell their dog to shut the fuck up. And the takeaway that this person had from this encounter wasn't maybe I should have taken my dog to a more private place as not to disturb other climbers. It was how could others be so mean to my sweet dog? And another example this week before the 4th of July, just this past summer outside published a story calling for the banning of fireworks. We talked about it here on the rock fight, but in that article, part of the reason why they wanted to ban fireworks, it was because of the impact loud noises can have on dogs.
(07:14):
And the comments were littered with people who cannot understand why some folks would even want to set up fireworks when it could possibly disturb their pets. And in both of these examples, you find people who are so blinded by their relationship with their dogs, they can't even see why someone would not want a whining dog disrupting their otherwise pleasant afternoon climbing or that maybe someone wasn't considering the dog that they maybe doesn't even know exists. They don't even know exists in the house like six doors down from theirs when they made that knee jerk decision to buy some fireworks during 4th of July weekend. And lastly, I'd like some stick taps for myself for the fact that I'm going to leave the insane amount of service dogs that we are now seeing in airports and on planes out of this conversation entirely. I'm going to give myself a little pat on the back for that one.
(07:57):
Most of this sounds fairly petty on the surface, but like I said back at the beginning, dogs are a built-in part of the outdoor marketing machine. Put together any sort of brand or ad campaign in the outdoor space and dogs are almost mandated to be included. They're sort of part of the outdoor uniform. If a hiker was the subject of a nature documentary, the narrator would be like, here we see the common trail walker of the high alpine. In addition to their overly expensive kit in unnecessarily technical clothing, this species can also be identified by their walking companion, a blue heeler named Coda. But Coda is really seen because the trail walker doesn't understand leash etiquette, so their companion is typically found accosting other dogs on the trail and trying to steal snacks at the summit. Dogs mean money to the outdoor industry, both in the branding and image of our industry, but also in the stuff that we make take rough wear.
(08:48):
For example, a brand out of Bend, Oregon who makes outdoor dog accessories, specifically outdoor dog accessories and they bring in somewhere between 20 and 50 million in revenue each year. They're a privately held company. So that range is kind of all you'll find on the internet if you go digging. So dogs aren't just a thing that happened to outdoors inclined individuals. They're also promoted as part of our lifestyle. So where does all this lead us to the place that contrary to what our industry and community wants us all to think, the simple truth is that we need to recognize not everyone likes your dog or wants to like any dog. And really this is the perfect storm slash intersection of our industry and community. It's tough to get mad at someone for buying a new pack or jacket. And if you see that person out on the trail, you walk right by them, you don't even notice.
(09:34):
But supporting dogs in the trail comes with automatic blowback from a chunk of underrepresented outdoor enthusiasts. And I suppose at the end of the day, this is the same as any other etiquette conversation. Like I said earlier, I currently own three dogs and I've owned several dogs who are no longer with us and I've become a good dog owner. But I'll admit that's only because I was also a very bad dog owner. At one point, my first dog put me squarely in that wanting to fit the mold demographic. I had visions of in my head of jumping out of my Jeep Cherokee at the trailhead bounding to the summit of a bear tops mountain with my off leash dog and my companion by my side. I tried to bring those visions to life, but those excursions also came with me yelling, oh, she's friendly to other people with dogs and apologizing for her misbehavior.
(10:20):
When it came to grabbing snacks out of the hands like a seagull on a busy day at the beach, I learned the hard way that my dog needs to be on leash. Even if your dog is totally on voice command, it needs to be on a leash. There's others out there that don't know that your dog is good. And seeing an off leash dog can cause real trepidation for those people who don't like dogs and didn't head out on the trail to hang out with yours. And I guess as for Heather's original question, is that our responsibility to police others? The short answer is yes. I mean, it may come with some pain if you talk to someone about their poor etiquette and they may get defensive about it, but perhaps the message starts to sink in after your encounter and maybe they start making some better decisions because of it.
(11:03):
I guess mostly if you're listening to this and you hike with your dogs off leash, just try and get in the mindset that the hiking experience is for the people out there. And if you can't stomach leaving your dog on leash, consider leaving your dog at home and then you can head over to rough wear.com and get a new dog toy to ease your guilt for leaving your pal behind. So anyway, producer Dave, you've already told us about your cat, your affinity for cats, but you're an almost daily hiker at this point, aside from the literal piles of poop bags that you encounter on the sides of trail,
Producer Dave (11:31):
I've started a photo collection Colin of abandoned poop bags.
Colin (11:37):
It's going to be the parting shot in our newsletter for the next six months
Producer Dave (11:39):
Possibly, but it's quite a variety in the color of poop bags, which is exciting to see. I like to see that.
Colin (11:47):
Mostly green though. I
Producer Dave (11:48):
Feel green, but I've seen pink. We've had purple, right? There's been blue. So I want you to know the poop bag industry is thriving and you can see the innovation. However, no one has figured out how to have the poop bag remove itself from the trail after being left behind, as we would say,
Colin (12:09):
Is this to be one of those things, those giant machinery now you see cut down trees in 10 seconds, strip the branches and slice off a two foot in diameter tree. Is it going to be a thing that goes around, sweeps up all the dog poop bags behind all the hikers?
Producer Dave (12:20):
Well obviously people believe that to be true because I'm still trying to wrestle with the idea that you've left a poop bag with this expectation that someone's going to take it. I mean, I've seen some poop bags that have sat there for a very long time.
Colin (12:35):
Oh yeah,
Producer Dave (12:35):
Right. And it's
Colin (12:36):
Just like testing the compostability of the compostable bag that it's in.
Producer Dave (12:39):
What about this environment, this rugged trail with broken tree branches and rock slides and all of, and what about being here says, oh yeah, don't worry, they'll get that tonight. The crew will come in and clean the forest. Maybe it's kind of sweeping the forest thing. Remove the poop bags, sweep the forest. That's right. Russell, the squirrels.
Colin (13:02):
Do you have any dog encounters in a forest park there?
Producer Dave (13:05):
I've had a couple off leash. Excited dogs to be there. Mostly it's just in that kind of range. You do get the dog's face off once in a while, things like that. And I love that where they just kind of stand back and watch it happen as if they're powerless to stop it.
Chris DeMakes (13:26):
Wait a minute, that's your dog. But they don't normally do
Producer Dave (13:28):
This, right? But for the most part, look, again, this is the small, small bit. Most people have their dog leashed and when you go by, they tighten up the rain to let you pass. Yeah, no problems. Look, I think dogs make the trail better. It's the people that muck it up, right?
Colin (13:50):
Yeah, I don't know. I guess this just comes out of, it's an etiquette conversation like mountain bikers who don't know, or the e-bikes who don't know and those kinds of things. And it's just probably this will be something that persists in perpetuity our space.
Producer Dave (14:02):
It is going to get more and more topical as the, I hate to use the marketing phrase, but as the funnel widens and we bring in more participants into the outdoor, you're going to have various states of expertise and familiarity and so there's going to be a lot of party vowels when it comes to things like that. That's one that you can just kind of already see playing out. I think it's about education. I think it's about empathy with people where they are in their journey and not trying to jump down everybody's throat. I think that's part of the issue too. Let's not assume that everyone has done this before, but yeah, but you got to speak up. I mean you do. We have to look out for each other in that regard. And so if someone's not got their dog on a leash, you're not an asshole. If you say, Hey you guys, can you leash your dog? That's a tough position to pin in. You shouldn't have to be put in that position, but if you feel compelled, why not?
Colin (15:05):
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(15:54):
So if you're looking for the perfect blend of hipster cool functional style and insulation you can only get from the original Italian made ingredient brand, check out the A KHG from Duluth trading because whether it's making amazing new garments or staying warm and safe out on the hill this winter, you can do more with themore. Alright, let's run through some headlines that come out of the outdoor industry over the past week. There wasn't a ton to talk about this week, but a couple items that came onto our radar were a couple that we touched on in our weekly newsletter news from the front that comes out every Sunday. So if you'd like expanded thoughts from me on previous rock fights and other industry commentary, head to rock fight.co. Click join the mailing list to get news from the front. You missed this past week so you can get next week's though.
(16:37):
So the first big news item that seems right now very under-reported to the point where I'm sort of second guessing is this real? Is this actually happening? How are we the only ones talking about this at this point? Maybe by the time this podcast is out, it has changed and if this conversation becomes outdated, what can I tell you? We didn't have all that future information now, but according to pulse ratings.com, backcountry.com was acquired last week by CSC. Generation. CSC is the parent company to a number of retail brands, mostly dealing in the home decor space. Folks like Direct Buy and Home Consignment Center. And if you look on CSCs website, the bio for their founder, Justin Yoshimura talks about how he has built his career acquiring distressed businesses and implementing strategic platforms to save them. So apparently this is the new owner of backcountry.com.
(17:29):
When looking at the other brands in the CSE portfolio, my gut reaction was that this was maybe similar to the Newell Rubber Bands acquisition of Marmon, which I don't know if we can say has been a overwhelming success, but at the least on the surface in judging things based on the background of CSCs founder, perhaps this is the leadership that Backcountry has needed. I do the idea of this is what they do, they bring people on and they look at the way retailer's on and they look at the strategic platforms that will work to really help these guys out because there was a time when Backcountry was like it. They were the cool brand and retailer, we all wanted a goat sticker on our car and then for whatever reason that has dropped off over the past decade to the point where I don't even consider them anymore when I want to buy outdoor products.
(18:13):
I feel like Evo has sort of taken that spot. There's REI is the big stalwart and now Evo is the cool upstart that we all kind of want to shop at. The big differentiation at Backcountry for me was always their gearhead, the folks on the phone because they really made it an interesting place to call. You call up and talk to someone and they really knew their stuff and you can have a conversation on the phone about the gear you were looking to buy. So I'm not sure if that's where CSC is going to invest their time going forward, but I dunno. Dave, any sort of thoughts on the confirmed acquisition of backcountry.com?
Producer Dave (18:48):
Right, well backcountry's been for sale for quite a while, so looking for a buyer has been a slog. A couple things kind of first blush you look at a CSC generation of like, oh, they do have some kind of downmarket kind of brands. They're definitely a tech first platform. I mean I think this was a model created to essentially help traditional retailers get their digital legs underneath them and so they've really developed that aspect of the
Colin (19:24):
Business. Mostly brick and mortar, I guess locations,
Producer Dave (19:26):
Right? You mentioned a couple of their downstream, they've got Erla table too, which is a more premium kitchenware kind of place, also has a lot,
Colin (19:36):
You're big in the premium kitchenware category. I think I
Producer Dave (19:38):
Do. I do like the look, I like me a good wooden spoon. You're
Colin (19:42):
Known for
Producer Dave (19:42):
That a greater, so they are playing in some of these kind of more premium brand or something where style becomes more relevant to the offering than just are my logistics getting you the product there. So I do think that, again, this is back country plays in kind of that they had a vibe going on and they still do. I mean look what they're doing in their media section in terms of the films that they're creating and kind of their outreach still really good and they're still solid at their storytelling for the most part. But yeah, look, every retailer's had a tough five years. So this idea that Evo and not just Evo but the smaller regionals are all making moves into this play. Everybody's gotten their act together somewhat in e-comm where when they started, they were the first to truly embrace the platform from an outdoor retail perspective, right?
Colin (20:40):
Yeah, but talk about having just the ball a fumbling on the one yard line, right? I mean they had it, they were the next thing. It was like REI and Backcountry you said in the same sentence. I mean who talks about backcountry anymore? And also this is why maybe this is a good owner for 'em. They seemingly failed in their initiative to open brick and mortar stores. They last fall made the new, or was it last earlier the spring? This made the news of we're going to sell our in-house line to specialty retailers, which I'm guarantee you that if you're going to find that anywhere that's not at a backcountry location, it's going to be Sierra, right? So it's definitely how many episodes in a row is that where we've mentioned Sierra,
Producer Dave (21:21):
Right? Though I had to say the branding potential of the Sierra Backcountry is pretty good.
Colin (21:26):
Oh my god, well just say the Sierra Backcountry. Amazing.
Producer Dave (21:30):
There we go. Amazing. There we go.
Colin (21:32):
No, but it's just like wow. So that's kind of what I mean. Maybe this is kind of like, hey listen, we know how to do retail and we're your owner now, so just let us guide you to the promised land,
Producer Dave (21:42):
Right? Well, they're going to be way more focused on logistics and that backend efficiency and I don't know any retailer or any retailer that couldn't benefit from that. Again, these folks are way outside of the industry. We got a little tech growth thing going on here. Not traditional Silicon Valley. I think the company is based in Indiana, so it's more of a Midwest tech, but still that kind of vibe. There's definitely a lot of private equity involved in that. So anytime we see these forces get involved in an emotional connective niche of the outdoor or any other in that same way you do worry about are they going to lose connection to that audience?
Colin (22:30):
That's our next story we're going to talk about is that connective tissue and how important it is. But yeah, listen, I'm not down on backcountry. I think it's great. I would love to see them sort of return to form. I mean I think we are kind of entering the space and again, we're going to get to it. We're more retail talk in a minute here, but it's kind of open season right now as we move into this sort of next generation of the outdoors, who the big retail players are going to be, how people get their goods. The thing we've alluded to in the past year of like, are we just going to come down to a couple of players? What's going to happen with specialty?
Producer Dave (23:02):
It's important for us to have, for the industry to
Colin (23:05):
Have, it's like a new wild
Producer Dave (23:05):
West.
Colin (23:06):
Well
Producer Dave (23:06):
It's important for the industry to have counterweights to that. We don't want an RAI Dick's to be the binary choices that you have on that. So having a strong player, especially in the e-com space makes sense. I am not opposed to their move into brick and mortar and things like that. I think those are vital ingredients to a healthy kind of sustainable business now. And we need to. So having Evos done the same thing with, they've moved obviously e-comm, they've always had brick and mortar, but they're moving into experiences. I mean,
Colin (23:39):
Oh they have
Producer Dave (23:40):
Hotels, right? I mean amazing that the compound in Salt Lake is outstanding. So we need more of that. And so to have a backcountry play that role I think is still a good thing.
Colin (23:52):
This is effectively breaking news. This is effectively instant reaction. I mean to your point, we knew that backcountry has been for sale. I think they went over to a PE ownership in like 2015
Chris DeMakes (24:01):
Long
Colin (24:01):
Time. So if anything, this is probably a long time coming by PE standards.
(24:05):
So I would assume next week we might be touching on this again as this week plays out and we learn more about what the strategy is going to be from the root new ownership. But we're looking ahead hope, good luck back country. We're rooting for you here at the Rock Fight. Alright, quick break and we come back. We're going to hit our last story for the day and get to our parting shots. This episode of the Rock Fight is brought to you by the great Malden Outdoors, an outdoor enablement campaign in the city of Malden, Massachusetts. For too long the outdoor industry has struggled with how to address the topics of diversity, equity, and inclusion. And the great Malden Outdoors is providing concrete action that outdoor brands and retailers can take to make a real difference situated just outside of Boston. Malden, Massachusetts is culturally diverse with an abundance of outdoor recreational opportunities and they're seeking the assistance of outdoor brands and retailers.
(24:55):
If you work at an outdoor brand or at a retail shop, they're looking for your donations of product, your time or your money. Head to the great malden outdoors.com and click contact to reach out and start a partnership today. Alright, last thing to talk about today, and it's not really a new story that it was in the trades in the past week. It was kind of one, it was a couple of stories that I'm sort of connecting the dots on because there were two other outdoor retailers that were in the news last week. Firstly, REI promoted Cameron Janes to the position of COO and then Mountain Warehouse completed their acquisition of Eastern Mountain Sports and I bring up the Cameron Janes promotion because if you look at the top two positions at REI, you have CEO Eric Arts whose background in retail before coming to REI was at places like VF and Urban Outfitters and now you have COO Cameron James whose background before REI was at Amazon and Walmart and I, again, I bring all this up because I've been having a lot of outdoor industry culture conversations lately.
(25:57):
And when the industry was humming in the early two thousands, there were those in the positions of power at brands and retailers who really understood our space, who came up from within our space. And that's a hard thing to quantify and I understand that on the surface you see the retail backgrounds or the operational backgrounds of some of these folks at larger companies and you make the case in your head like, well, they could do really big things for us here. But there is a little something to understanding the authenticity and what makes people tick in our space that I feel like shouldn't be underestimated when you're considering who's running our biggest players. Players. And then you play all that I just said against Mountain Warehouse who's taking over the much maligned Eastern Mountain sports where you have Mark Neil who founded Mountain Warehouse in the late nineties and has grown it to be a global player on the outdoor retail front.
(26:47):
They have stores in multiple countries and so he's been doing that, he's been in the industry since the nineties and maybe he ends up being the white knight that EMS has basically been begging for since 1967. Now to be fair, Eric Arts has been at REI for more than a decade. So perhaps he's in a similar position to understand the industry and the consumer and lead REI back to Glory. But I don't know, this makes me feel like, like I said earlier, that we're not at the end of something. We're at the beginning of something and how these leaders at these brands are going to set the tone for the next couple of decades in our industry is super important. Dave, I want to bring you in on this. Are you tracking with what I'm saying? Am I getting a little too outdoor fru here? You got to be in touch with nature man. I mean what does it make you think of when I kind of connect these dots?
Producer Dave (27:34):
Well this is the angel old kind of pull between that endemic understanding of the industry and the consumer and the space and why we do what we do and kind of people from the outside with maybe expertise in other areas that help make businesses run. And I think this is one of those cases actually where that experience of an Amazon or a Walmart from an operational perspective, how could that not be valuable to REI? And so bringing those kind of perspectives, companies that are able to extract every cent if you will from efficiency is a great thing. My issue is that REI seems to be more running its brand and feel as an outdoor entity, more like a Walmart or an Amazon versus this I would say core emotionally connected brand that we have or emotionally connected entity that we have with the brand REI.
Colin (28:35):
Well funny you should mention that, I didn't speak about her in my little rant there, but Vivian Long is the current chief marketing officer at REI and according to LinkedIn, her background are at brands, places like Procter and Gamble, Microsoft, Clorox, and Starbucks.
Producer Dave (28:52):
Well there we go.
Colin (28:53):
Oh, and by the way, I dunno if there's been anything in the press about this, but it seems even more confusing because then also on LinkedIn there is listed an interim chief marketing officer, a gentleman named Partis Banani, I hope I'm saying your name correctly, who it says they've been in the interim chief marketing officer position since this past January. Vivian is still listed as being the chief marketing officer. Maybe she is no longer there and just hasn't updated her LinkedIn page. I don't know. It does seem to play into the chaos that is REI these days and why? You know what? I'm putting my money on the rebound of Eastern Mountain sports.
Producer Dave (29:29):
Wow,
Colin (29:30):
I'm putting that money there.
Producer Dave (29:31):
That's some big news there.
Colin (29:34):
Well the thing about this guy partis though I will say is he has been at REI for nearly 20 years, so maybe he proves my point. A little industry, a little industry background, a little love of the outdoors goes a long way when you're trying to figure out what to do with some of these brands. Right. Alright, it's time for our parting shot part of the show. Or every week Dave and I or Justin and I, whoever's here, we talk about something can be outdoor related. It doesn't have to be we're going to take a shot at something out there and get something off our chest. Dave, you're up. What do you got for your parting
Producer Dave (30:07):
Shot? My parting shot is once again trying to pass knowledge, a book called American Canopy Trees Force in the Making of a Nation by Eric Ruco. This is a telling of American history through the lens of trees and how trees actually have played significant roles in the development of this country from the very beginning, the colonial types to all the way to today and takes these different periods and shows how trees forestry as a concept became how the interior department was developed in the national parks. All of this idea but from the trees are almost pushed the first pilgrims back because they didn't have the tools to even cut through the massive hardwoods and the diameter and they didn't bring oxen with them. And so being able to farm almost pushed them off of the continent. And there's stories like that that move all the way through American history and it's just a very fascinating take. And so I really, really recommend it. American Canopy,
Colin (31:12):
My parting shot is not nearly as in depth as that mine is YouTube reaction videos. I kind of want them to settle down because I don't know about you as a creative when you're working, I tend to write a little, do something and then I take a break and usually I tool around the internet and kind of let my mind reset. And so then I'll like, oh, let see what's on YouTube. And then it's like here's so-and-so's instant reaction to watching Lord of the Rings for the first time. I'm like, all fuck. Now I got to at least go to all the heavy hitting spots of the Fellowship of the Ring and watch their reaction. Oh, it's the sixth sense. Like, ah, all right, well I got to go to the end and see how they react to the end of the sixth sense what happens. And before you know it, I've burned 25 minutes and what was supposed to be a nice little five minute distraction turned into shit, I just burned half an hour looking at internet reactors on YouTube.
Producer Dave (32:01):
Well I guess that means that I should probably not tell you about my newest creative endeavor, which is reaction videos to books. My American Canopy will be my reaction video when you get to one of
Colin (32:13):
Those, I just published 24 hours of just me reading a book. That's
Producer Dave (32:17):
Right, that's right.
Colin (32:18):
Oh that's very
Producer Dave (32:19):
Interesting. That's right. The works of Nathaniel Hawthorne. I'll be going through and having reaction videos.
Colin (32:27):
That'd be amazing. I'm sure you know what? I bet if you go look, there are probably reaction videos to people reading books. I guarantee you they exist
Producer Dave (32:33):
Right to the Scarlet Letter
Colin (32:34):
Like reaction videos to everything now. And
Producer Dave (32:35):
They always play. They made what? Oh my gosh,
Colin (32:39):
You got to read it to find out guys.
Producer Dave (32:40):
That's amazing. I so want to do that.
Colin (32:45):
Okay. Alright, so coming up this week of the show, so it's Monday, we got Thursday coming up, we got a podcast conversation as well as maybe a mailbag gear and beer on Friday and then adventure headlines coming back next Saturday, get you into your weekend, give you something to listen to while you're out on your adventures. Make sure you subscribe to our newsletter. Go to rock flight dot cos, click join the mailing list. Send us your feedback, my rock flight@gmail.com and please click that follow button, follow the show, your life will be better for it. And the Rock Flight is a production of Rock Flight llc. Our producer today is David Kasad. Art direction provided by Sarah the punk mom, Genser Colin. True. Thanks for listening. And here to take us out. It's Krista Makes, he's going to sing the rock Fight Fight song. We'll see you next time. Rock fighters. Rock fight, rock,
Chris DeMakes (33:35):
Bike, bike, bike. Go into the bike where we speak our truth. Stay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree. We talk about human power, outdoor activities and pick bikes about are fantastic that we find interesting. Black culture music, the latest movie reviews, ideas for the head. This is where we speak truth. This is where we speak. Truth, bike, bike.
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