Today on THE ROCK FIGHT (an outdoor podcast that aims for the head) Colin and Producer Dave are joined by the founders of SENIQ; a new brand focused on making outdoor apparel for women.
It's not a secret that for much of the Outdoor Industry's history the primary directive when it came to apparel or footwear for women was to take something made for men and 'shrink it and pink it'. Even though there have been a number of advancements in recent years for female adventurers, there is still a long way to go.
That is why Madison Hilson and Tina Thompson started SENIQ. A women's outdoor apparel brand with a modern twist.
On today's episode they discuss how their time working at Victoria's Secret and Backcountry, led to creating a brand that prioritizes fit, function, and style for the modern outdoorswoman.
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Episode Transcript
Colin True
00:00:00.320 - 00:03:17.861
Western North Carolina businesses need your financial support now more than ever.
In the aftermath of Hurricane Helene this month, Darby Communications, based in Asheville, North Carolina, is donating its ad space here on the Rock Flight to help other outdoor businesses in western North Carolina get back on their feet.
The outdoor industry is a major contributor to Western North Carolina's economy, and Darby Communications is asking people to donate to the Outdoor Business Alliance Hurricane Helene Relief Fund, which supports outdoor industry businesses in their recovery and supports their staff as they rebuild in the wake of the storm's devastation. Now is the time to help out the outdoor community by sparing a few bucks.
To help build back what we lost in western North Carolina, head to outdoorbusinessalliance.org and click donate Today to get started. Welcome to the Rock Fight, where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows, and sometimes agree to disagree.
This is an outdoor podcast that aims for the head. I'm Colin True and today on the show we have a couple of founders of a new outdoor brand that are shaking things up.
But before we get to that look, I know that we have the greatest listeners of any outdoor podcast.
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All right, we're joined today by Madison Hilson and Tina Thompson, who are the co founders of Sunique, which is a recently launched like this this year, back in March, women's outdoor apparel brand with a quote, modern approach to outdoor apparel for women. Welcome to the show. Madison and Tina, thanks for coming on.
Madison Hilson
00:03:17.893 - 00:03:20.533
Guys, thanks so much for having us.
Tina Thompson
00:03:20.669 - 00:03:21.945
We're so excited.
Colin True
00:03:22.325 - 00:03:41.945
I think the most important thing to start with is the fact that you need applause and you know, people need to stand up and clap for the fact that you founded an outdoor brand in Ohio and you easily could have gone to Colorado like every other boring person. Like we're going to. We're going to go to Colorado because it's so outdoorsy. No, you're like, Ohio, this is our state.
Madison Hilson
00:03:42.265 - 00:03:45.097
We gotta stand for the Midwesterners, you know?
Colin True
00:03:45.241 - 00:03:46.537
Is that where you're both from?
Madison Hilson
00:03:46.681 - 00:03:48.481
Yep. Columbus, Ohio.
Colin True
00:03:48.673 - 00:03:52.085
How's the. How's October going in Ohio? Is it. Is it perfect right now?
Tina Thompson
00:03:52.785 - 00:04:04.285
Yes, it is stunning. Like, 65 and sunny every day. The trees are, like, rainbow. It's. It's amazing. It's an underrated place. If you've never been. Don't.
Don't hate it till you try it.
Colin True
00:04:05.185 - 00:04:19.245
Every place has good stuff. That's. You know what?
We've moved around the country quite a bit, and it's just, you know, anytime we go back east or go to the southeast areas where I grew up with, like, a real bias against. And then you kind of go visit there, you're like, oh, there's actually great stuff here. There's just good stuff everywhere.
Everywhere has its stuff that sucks, and it's good.
Tina Thompson
00:04:19.285 - 00:04:38.397
So, yeah, it's a good place. I will say we. To.
To the credit of Scenic, we concepted the brand when we were living in Utah, but we moved back home near family in Ohio once things started going in motion, because you need all the free help in the world that you can get when you're launching a brand.
David
00:04:38.501 - 00:04:41.413
Once you started asking for money, you had to move home.
Tina Thompson
00:04:41.589 - 00:04:42.305
Right.
David
00:04:42.925 - 00:04:46.427
Closer to that and that funding source. I hear you.
Tina Thompson
00:04:46.491 - 00:04:46.851
Yes.
Colin True
00:04:46.923 - 00:04:47.155
Okay.
Tina Thompson
00:04:47.195 - 00:04:47.635
Yep.
Colin True
00:04:47.715 - 00:04:54.055
Well, as founders, you should correct the host, because I was. I said Scenic, so it's Scenic. Is that. Did I mispronounce your name right?
Tina Thompson
00:04:54.715 - 00:05:01.655
We get Sonique all the time. No, don't be sorry. The Q really throws people. Like, it's. It's really a mystery.
Colin True
00:05:02.555 - 00:05:09.995
Right. I mean, could go either way. Is it, like. Is it Scenic, like, scenic, or is it, like, a play on unique? Right.
So I guess that's kind of where my mind went when I read it.
Tina Thompson
00:05:10.155 - 00:05:15.735
Yeah. You're not. You're not an anomaly. That is the more common pronunciation, I would say.
Colin True
00:05:16.155 - 00:05:22.411
Well, let's get into it. So how. You know, how was the brand conceived? You know, What. What. What was. What's the backstory? Like, how did it all come about?
Tina Thompson
00:05:22.603 - 00:06:09.185
Yeah, so Maddie and I, I mean, we've been friends since high school, so we have been attached at the hip for many years. And we actually.
Yeah, we went to high school together, we went to college together, and we had our first jobs together at Victoria's Secret as merchants. And even back in those days, I think we both are so entrepreneurial, spirited. And I'll just give you, like, a fun backstory.
I'll never forget, Maddie was, like, crushing some project. She had, like, no help and was doing things all by herself. And I remember, look, like, this was literally when I was fresh out of college.
I was looking at Maddie, and I was like, holy shit. I don't know why, but I feel like I'm gonna work for you someday. Like, I just feel this, like. I don't know. I have this weird feeling. And, like.
Colin True
00:06:09.225 - 00:06:10.685
And you got off the Ouija board.
Tina Thompson
00:06:11.105 - 00:06:12.129
Yeah, totally.
Madison Hilson
00:06:12.177 - 00:06:16.845
Right, Tina? All of the life predictions, always.
Tina Thompson
00:06:17.425 - 00:07:40.353
I just have. I have, like, an annoyingly strong gut that, like, I don't know. Sometimes it has to be spoken out loud.
So, yeah, I think, like, Maddie and I are just such. We've worked together in so many different companies, and we're such a great compliment in our skillset and our personalities.
And when we were living together in Utah, we had recently just been working at backcountry, really getting to know the outdoor customer in depth. And we were ourselves getting on trail twice a day before work and after work with a bunch of girls. And we just realized two big things.
One, the worst part of hiking was getting dressed. It absolutely sucked. It was uninspiring. It felt unsexy, unflattering, unempowering. And we knew that it didn't have to be that way.
And then the other shift we were noticing was girls were using the outdoors for therapy for their minds. Like, truly, you weren't hiking really to improve your physical health.
I feel like we were getting that in different sources in different rooms and ways, but it was really as, like, a mental reset, and it didn't feel like there was a brand that was solving that product problem. And speaking to the end, use of the outdoors as a tool for your mind. So it was over deli sandwiches in Utah at the best deli in Salt Lake City.
I don't know if you guys have spent time. It's Feldman's. Have you been?
Colin True
00:07:40.529 - 00:07:45.393
I have not been. I lived in Utah for four years, and I never went to Feldman's. I was at Carlucci. Yeah.
Tina Thompson
00:07:45.449 - 00:07:46.405
Oh, my God.
David
00:07:46.785 - 00:07:47.473
Holy.
Tina Thompson
00:07:47.609 - 00:07:53.525
You're missing out. Where was it, Maddie? It's like, in the middle.
Madison Hilson
00:07:53.865 - 00:07:55.085
Yeah. Like between.
David
00:07:58.245 - 00:07:59.625
In the bagel district.
Colin True
00:08:00.925 - 00:08:03.061
The famous Utah unbaked bagel district.
David
00:08:03.133 - 00:08:06.597
Salt Lake bagel district. Right. It's where the salt bagel comes from.
Tina Thompson
00:08:06.741 - 00:08:07.665
That's right.
Colin True
00:08:08.205 - 00:08:11.677
Well, I'll put it on the list. I mean, obviously, I'll be going back to Utah at some point, so. Feldman's.
Tina Thompson
00:08:11.701 - 00:08:11.885
Good.
Colin True
00:08:11.925 - 00:08:13.125
Good tip. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.
David
00:08:13.165 - 00:08:14.101
You, but you're having.
Madison Hilson
00:08:14.173 - 00:08:14.637
No, no, no.
Colin True
00:08:14.661 - 00:08:16.389
You're having Deli sandwiches. Sorry I ruined yourself.
Tina Thompson
00:08:16.437 - 00:09:05.701
Deli sandwiches. And we just started looking at each other, and we.
I think at that point, like, I don't know, we knew big life changes in our personal lives were coming, and we were like, okay, if we're going to do this, like, now is the moment. Like, should we fucking do this? And we left that lunch being like, okay, let's. Let's send it.
And after that, I think it was the hour later, I went home and, like, made some product briefs, put them on paper, showed, called Maddie. It was like, what do you think of these? I know they're crazy, but, like, bear with me. What do you think?
And she was like, we are writing a business plan on Sunday. Like, clear your calendar. We're spending all day. And the minute we did that, it was just like, it took on a life of its own.
So that's kind of the backstory of where the thoughts came from and how those, like, moments where we actually put things into action.
Colin True
00:09:05.893 - 00:09:12.213
Maddie, do you want to tell us about the types of mind control that Tina uses on you? I mean, this is a safe space.
Madison Hilson
00:09:12.309 - 00:09:17.517
If you want to, like, throw so many. It's light suggestions, and then I end up doing it anyway.
Colin True
00:09:17.581 - 00:09:20.625
She's like, you will be my boss. I will be your boss.
Madison Hilson
00:09:22.915 - 00:09:41.335
Yeah. No, it was funny.
It was like, I would say the first six months of us, after we wrote our business plan, we would just look at each other and be like, okay, I guess we're doing this. Okay, I guess we're hiring a designer. Okay, I guess we're buying fabric. Okay, I guess we're doing this.
And it was kind of like, truly took on a life of its own, and it just snowballed from there.
Colin True
00:09:41.755 - 00:10:22.595
I want to ask you guys, before we get in the industry and the product and even the brand stuff, so starting, it's almost like a Victoria's Secret and kind of that big fashion ecosystem that you're in and coming to the outdoor industry.
And one thing that we kind of gripe or bitch about, I guess a lot on this podcast, is so many people in the outdoor industry don't understand that, like, we are part of the fashion industry.
Being in the outdoor industry, at least on the apparel side, I mean, you know, gear manufacturers might do things a little bit differently, but even then, it's still identifying fabrics or materials and assembling it in some form and then shipping it out to be sold. Did you notice what was. Even if it was the cultural side or just coming to Backcountry from Victoria's secret. Like, what was that transition like?
And actually how did it inform Scenic?
Madison Hilson
00:10:23.465 - 00:11:29.525
We had very different, I would say, experiences at backcountry. So I was on the buying team, on the women's buying team, and Tina was on the private label team.
And so at Victoria's Secret, we were surrounded by women all day long. Like the whole merchant team was, I think actually 100% women. And there was like 50 or 60 of us. So that was a really fun first job out of college.
And then when I came to backcountry, I was on a team, 100% of women as well. So it actually felt quite natural to move from that type of team structure over to backcountry.
I would say from a fashion standpoint, the biggest difference was backcountry tends to be highly analytical and Victoria's Secret was beyond trend driven.
And it was kind of coming in with a new perspective of, hey, we need to balance both of those things and make sure we're looking at trend and also looking at sales numbers and what's been working for us in the past. So that was a fun kind of point of view to bring into a traditionally analytical company.
Tina Thompson
00:11:29.825 - 00:12:02.895
Oh, I'll just say. I'll add, I think I was on a team, like at the product development side was mainly men. There was like a handful of female voices in the room.
And it was the first time that the women's point of view wasn't the lead and innovation and ideas for women. Like, female form wasn't always open and welcomed.
So it was a really, it was a total life changing experience of like, oh, we can, we can build product in a different way than what's been happening here and throughout the industry.
Colin True
00:12:03.835 - 00:12:55.355
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a checkered history and the outdoor side of things when it comes to that, I mean, especially, I think there's a long legacy in the industry of, you know, just, you know, the quote unquote, shrink it and pink it. You know, David and I both have deep footwear backgrounds and for a long time that was it.
Like, well, we need a women's version of like, well, we use a small men's last and we'll add some color and that'll be the women's version of it.
But we were talking about something recently and they were in a press release talking about how, like, ah, we're, we're building these shoes on a women's last. I'm like, yeah, man, that's been around like forever. Like, what are we doing? Still putting that in a Press release now. Right.
So you mentioned as you're kind of developing the products and you're sourcing materials and things like that. So what steps did you actually go through then to kind of make sure you realize the vision of a women specific outdoor apparel line?
Because you are defining yourself also as outdoor, not as athletic or anything else. You're an outdoor brand. So what were the steps you went through to kind of develop the brand and then the products as well?
Tina Thompson
00:12:56.055 - 00:14:51.625
Yeah, it's funny and it's almost. It's such a unique experience that really couldn't be replicated.
But Maddie and I, and I specifically have spent my entire career in the active and outdoor categories. So at Victoria's Secret, I was focused solely on the sport category.
Then I spent some time after that at Outdoor Voices, which pitches itself in between those two quarters. And then, yeah, backcountry was after that.
So I naturally have become so intimate with the woman who gets outdoor for activity or the woman who even just enjoys an active lifestyle, that I've built up this relationship with her. I am her. I know her, I'm friends with her. She is like my whole world.
And so sort of the problems that we were trying to solve were overwhelmingly obvious to my development mind and to Maddie.
And I almost have been collecting notes over the years through my experience, whether it's personal experience or it's through brainstorming with girls or in my roles, but have been collecting different product details that I from different products throughout all of my jobs.
Absolutely love these types of fabrics for these activities or these trim details from more fashion inspired places that aren't always in technical spaces.
So really have built up this, like little treasure box of things that we were really excited to put together and create our own point of view of what women's outdoor apparel would look like and could look like. And yeah, it's kind of a unique experience. It wasn't like we had to go and look for it. Like, we have been doing this like firsthand research for.
For a decade ultimately, and had all of this ammo ready to be pulled the trigger on and decided to finally send it.
Madison Hilson
00:14:52.845 - 00:15:54.015
Yeah.
And I think to add to that, it was like we were experiencing all of these issues firsthand while we were living out in Utah and we were getting on trail almost every day, if not every day. And we were like going on a hike. We were hungry after, wanted to go to Feldman's.
But then we looked down at our outfits and we're like, oh, I hate that I have to wear these outfits in Public. Why can't we have something that looks good and performs great? And so that was, like, kind of the antithesis of it or the catalyst for it.
And I think, like, going back to product, when we sit down to design something, it's always with the purpose of what is it solving. So our dirt pop jacket, for example, what that piece is solving is being able to rip off the sleeves.
The sleeves on that piece, you're actually able to change with your elevation, and you can have two looks for one, and it's this innovative, versatile piece. So that's kind of our thought process with every item that we design is it has to be solving something.
Colin True
00:15:54.715 - 00:16:04.895
Was it important to categorize the brand as outdoor, though? I mean, it probably wouldn't. Pretty easy just to say we're athletic or we're active and kind of been more general.
Like, what was behind the decision to call it an outdoor brand?
Madison Hilson
00:16:05.755 - 00:16:29.635
That's where we saw the biggest opportunity, because that was our lives and is our lives is getting outdoors. And that was where we saw the biggest product gap in the market.
We think there's a ton of activewear brands who are doing a great job of athleisure and creating versatility in their pieces and casualization of their pieces, but no one's really doing that successfully in outdoor.
Colin True
00:16:30.695 - 00:16:49.853
Yeah, I mean, it is. It's a. It's a choice. Right.
Because, like, everything kind of crosses over now, and, like, a lot of the fabrics are used in all the different categories. So it's a brand positioning statement more than it is.
Because, I mean, if someone wants to run in your stuff, I'm sure they'll be able to right at the end of the day. But it's also like, to say, like, no, this brand is about being an outdoor brand. Like, that's. This is who we are.
You're defining who you are from the get go.
Madison Hilson
00:16:50.029 - 00:17:18.951
Yep. And it also ties back to our mission around mental health.
So we had a few personal experiences, and Tina can share more about the one that kind of sparked the brand mission. But we had experiences around getting outdoors for more than just our physical health. It was for our mental health and a mental reset.
And no one was really speaking to using the outdoors in this way. So that was also another reason why we wanted to create this mission for an outdoor brand.
Colin True
00:17:19.143 - 00:17:23.087
Yeah. Tell us more about that. So what was the. What was the. What was that. What was that piece of it?
Tina Thompson
00:17:23.231 - 00:18:05.589
Yeah. So I am a snowboarder, and I grew up in Ohio, where we don't have mountains. We have like the world's smallest hills.
And so living in Utah, that was the first time I ever lived outside of Ohio and absolutely loved snowboarding out there. And I had friends visiting one weekend and they wanted to go to Deer Valley. I wanted to go to Deer Valley. I'd never skied before, am a total dumbass.
And decided to just send it and not take a lesson. And within my first five minutes on skis, I tore every ligament in my right knee. And it was so bad. It was so bad.
I'm pretty sure the name of the run at Deer Valley was successful also, which is like so ironic and funny.
Colin True
00:18:05.637 - 00:18:07.245
Just assault in the wound, right?
Tina Thompson
00:18:07.285 - 00:18:07.949
Yeah.
Colin True
00:18:08.117 - 00:18:12.705
You're like laying on the ground looking at the sign saying, yeah.
Tina Thompson
00:18:13.005 - 00:20:00.265
It was like a total. Yeah, just jokes on me that day. So that was my first win. That was at like. Yeah. I was at my first winter in Utah. Essentially.
I had to get surgery and couldn't snowboard. And this was the winter of winter 2022, Jan, Feb, March of 23. And it was like a killer snow season. Every day was a powder day.
Everyone was on the mountain all day. And I was stuck inside on the couch looking at the mountains from my couch.
And I kind of had this out of body moment where I decided, like, okay, you can either sit here and feel super bad for yourself and be upset about the situation, or you can try to take the scenic route through this experience and like, really cherish the slowness and all the. The blessings that are around you, because you probably won't get an experience like this again.
And the minute that I visualize the word scenic root at this time, Maddie and I had already had our lunch conversation.
And visualizing that word like this light bulb went off in my mind and I was like, oh, shit, what if we texted Maddie right away, like, what if we name our brand Scenic Roo? And she was like, what if we name it Scenic? Like how? Let's just like, keep it a little bit more simple.
And we both knew that was the perfect word to sort of commun. Kate.
Yeah, like not only nod to outdoors with all of the verbiage around scenic route, but also to nod to the concept of taking the scenic route through any of your experiences and really how mindful that concept can be. So it was the perfect word and term for us. But yeah, it was a super shitty experience that totally drove amazing, amazing result out of it.
Colin True
00:20:01.005 - 00:20:20.353
Yeah, it's like, that's gonna be shitty no matter what.
But it's like, it's even worse that it's Your first winter in, like, a mountain town when you're from the Midwest, you and it's like, oh, my God, look, mountains. I can't wait to go snowboarding. Like, no, no. Luckily you were mind controlling Maddie into bringing you coffees and, like, and food and stuff, right?
And she just said, what do you need? Like, can I go snow?
Tina Thompson
00:20:20.449 - 00:20:39.585
You're like, no, totally. Yes, thankfully. So what's cool going to be so cool is I haven't actually gotten back on my board since that surgery. Yeah.
The first time I'll be snowboarding will be in our own scenic ski kit, which is, like, kind of crazy.
Colin True
00:20:41.405 - 00:20:54.837
This episode of the Rock Fight is brought to you by the Great Malden Outdoors, an outdoor enablement campaign in the city of Malden, Massachusetts. And the brains behind this initiative, Darren Jose. He's here with me right now. Darren, first of all, what is an outdoor enablement campaign?
Darren Josey
00:20:54.941 - 00:21:05.579
An outdoor enablement campaign provides four things. Advertising, resources, programming, and youth development.
These are the four things that I believe are really important to getting more people outside.
Colin True
00:21:05.717 - 00:21:09.143
So why is this campaign important to DEI efforts in the outdoor industry?
Darren Josey
00:21:09.239 - 00:21:36.059
We have to start by getting more people outside. And that can start their journey from one, becoming someone who just enjoys outdoor recreation as a lifestyle. But two, a path for a job.
No one told me that going outside and rock climbing could lead to a job one day or fishing or bike riding. Didn't know that was a thing until I got into the industry.
And I want to change that and start that journey a lot earlier for way more people in our society.
Colin True
00:21:36.147 - 00:21:39.651
Hey, man. And lastly, how can outdoor brands and retailers help or participate?
Darren Josey
00:21:39.763 - 00:21:57.675
Go to the great maldenoutdoors.com click on the contact button and reach out. We are always looking for donations for gear, funds and expertise.
You can lend your existing staff to lead an online course, or if you're in the New England area, come on down and lead a class. We're looking for more programming.
Colin True
00:21:57.715 - 00:22:25.647
Head to the great malden outdoors.com and click contact to build a partnership today. Thinking about the athletic space, though, right?
I mean, that's probably who's made the most headway in terms of, you know, women's active apparel, right? The Lulus, the Nikes, the Athletas and stuff like that. Like, how is that? Was there any influence there?
Was there anything you wanted to reference or anything that they got, right, that you're like, we want to bring an element of the athletic piece into our outdoor brand? Or is it like, nope, we are not even looking at that. We want to do our own thing from the get go?
Madison Hilson
00:22:25.831 - 00:22:57.235
Yeah, absolutely.
I think what's so cool about a brand like Athleta is that they were one of the first people to kind of capture the versatility of activewear, and that's definitely something we're trying to bring into the outdoor space. So, yeah, I think just the versatility piece was the biggest one.
And realizing that consumers are using their, you know, clothing for more than just one thing and people aren't shopping the way they used to or in categories, it's all kind of intermixed. So.
Colin True
00:22:57.315 - 00:23:21.215
And when you look at, I mean, obviously there are other women specific apparel brands maybe in other categories. I'm thinking of like a wild rye or a shredly or something like that. Do you guys hiker kind. There you go.
So when you look at somewhat what some of those brands are doing, what makes Scenic Stand apart from other women's specific apparel brands? I mean, obviously like the Wild Ride's a mountain bike brand. So like.
But aside from the activities, what is it that you think is the brand differentiation?
Tina Thompson
00:23:21.515 - 00:26:02.457
Yeah, I think it's cool to caveat too. I feel like the question that gets asked of us and brands like us a lot are what is the differentiator?
But I feel like would love to also just highlight the fact that there is a total movement of women creating outdoor brands now.
And it's amazing that we all have the same, like, driving motivation to empower our female voices in our bodies to make sure we're focusing on look, feel and fit to build community driven cultures within these brands and really focusing on self expression.
I think, like, there is such this amazing common thread between all of our brands that, like, I think it's really cool that we do have that in common. And then, yeah, it's awesome to see see all of these different women's take on what does an outdoor brand look like.
And I think first and foremost, I think scenic, as you can just tell by looking at our product, looks so much different than what's out there aesthetically. And that is great colors. Thank you so much. That's because we're truly referencing Runway and fashion and that world.
We're not exclusively looking at landscapes or outdoors places like a lot of brands typically do. We're looking in some of these more unconventional places which are allowing our product to ultimately look different as an end result.
So I would say our aesthetic is a huge differentiator in where we draw our references from. And then the other big differentiator I think is just how highly versatile Our product is. So we launched a seven style collection in March.
We had girls posting within the first few months of buying the product. They were not only hiking, backpacking, camping in the product, but they were climbing in the product.
Even though they weren't harness compatible, they were biking, mountain biking in the product. Even though we. We did not design the product to be that way and could be potentially dangerous in some of the specific garments.
But I think it's just how versatile we're making. The fit, the silhouette and the aesthetic of our garments is really what differentiates us.
And we did that not only in our hike or I should say, like our spring collection that we really built to hike in, but we also use that versatility and designed with it in our winter collection that we just launched. So, for example, we launched these amazing work, calling them our cabin fever Merino base layers.
And we wanted to make sure that these functioned highly as base layers under your ski kit, but they also could be worn as outer layers for any Nordic skiing or any winter hiking. And it's not. It's creating product that has more than just one purpose and one end use is really a key differentiator for scenic.
Colin True
00:26:02.561 - 00:26:46.961
So I do want to, I want to pick one. A little fight with one thing you guys said. So the idea of the functional clothing, right, the. This has existed for some time.
The, like, you can, you can wear it on the trail, then you can wear it to the coffee shop or the bar. And when I was, you know, managing sales at Polar Tech, that's always the thing.
A lot of, I mean, everyone from the most hardcore technical brands to the most casual people, like, look at the versatility. And I'm like, all right, but who does that? I mean, really, sometimes you're forced to do that because I've always been a.
I'm going to bring something with me guy, right? It's like, I just got done running 10 miles.
I'm not wearing my stinky, sweaty shirt whether, no matter how good it looks, I'm going to have another shirt with me in the car. So are people really going to the coffee shop, you know, from an adventure?
Or is it just to say, is that just a good make for a good copy for the product in the catalog?
Tina Thompson
00:26:47.113 - 00:26:52.145
Oh, it is. Yes, it is. So true.
Colin True
00:26:52.185 - 00:26:53.525
So I'm the weird one.
Tina Thompson
00:26:53.905 - 00:26:55.085
You're the outlier.
Madison Hilson
00:26:56.585 - 00:27:08.897
Think about women going front. Like, it's back to the activewear point. It's women going to Pilates and then going to get coffee or brunch or mimosas after with Their friends.
It's the same concept for outdoor as well.
Colin True
00:27:08.961 - 00:27:09.593
Right.
Tina Thompson
00:27:09.769 - 00:27:42.025
I actually even think outdoor has this stronger pull to keep the activity going.
So, for example, like any hike that I've ever done with a group of people, there's always this moment after the hike where everyone is congregating in the parking lot. Like, they don't want to break that connection that we just built on trail. And that's why it's so common.
Like, you'll end up striking an idea like, oh, should we just go grab a coffee or a beer or a sandwich? And I think people are so much more focused on building those connections than if they care if they smell, you know?
Like, I think that connection is so strong.
Colin True
00:27:42.565 - 00:27:48.585
It's so true. When I'm in that group, though, I'm the one who doesn't smell because I changed into my T shirt that I brought with me.
Madison Hilson
00:27:49.285 - 00:27:50.933
I also think, from a standpoint, they're.
David
00:27:50.949 - 00:27:52.865
Avoiding you for other reasons, Colin.
Colin True
00:27:53.565 - 00:27:54.861
I'm not gonna deny that.
David
00:27:54.973 - 00:27:55.625
Right.
Madison Hilson
00:27:56.605 - 00:28:09.665
I also think from the standpoint of travel, like, people want to pack less on their trips. So if they have garments that can both be worn on trail and off, that's a huge win for them in their bag.
Colin True
00:28:09.985 - 00:28:18.565
Right. Travel is huge. I mean, that's the thing. You want versatility in your kid. You want to carry less, all those things. Absolutely.
That's where I definitely bend on my more stuff.
Tina Thompson
00:28:20.145 - 00:28:54.195
I think the other thing, too, is, like, the like. So there's completely and undeniably a new woman in the outdoors. She's totally different than who the OG Outdoor woman used to be.
And this new woman is not spending a big chunk of her day outdoors. She's spending a fraction of her day outdoors. And it is, like, her favorite part of her day.
But she needs her gear or whatever the hell she's wearing to work in all of the rooms she's in that day. So I think it's also just a testament to the changing lifestyle of this new outdoors woman.
David
00:28:54.275 - 00:29:20.359
Yeah, no, that was great. Great summation of that. I want to talk more about the aesthetic choices that you make, because I do think that you have a strikingly different brand.
I think color is definitely part of the story.
I think some of your asymmetric decisions in terms of where you're putting seams and zippers and, like I said, just some of the organic kind of line choices, I think, also stand out in this line. So how'd you get there?
Tina Thompson
00:29:20.487 - 00:29:33.807
A few questions within that question. When it comes to silhouette, the outdoors has not been Tapping into a few of the mainstream silhouettes that the fashion space has been playing into.
Colin True
00:29:33.871 - 00:29:36.675
Call them boring. It's fine. We know the industry is boring.
David
00:29:38.175 - 00:29:41.187
Does a batik turtle count as a silhouette?
Tina Thompson
00:29:41.331 - 00:29:46.531
I'm wondering. Yes, absolutely. Design brilliance.
David
00:29:46.683 - 00:29:47.283
Yep.
Colin True
00:29:47.379 - 00:29:50.547
You're the disruptor here. You can call out the OGs, it's fine, you know.
Tina Thompson
00:29:50.611 - 00:31:43.125
Yeah, no, but we, like, it's not even a call out. It's just like we. We respect and we get why it has been that way.
And there's so many new voices at the table that it's like, it makes sense also why it's evolving.
But, yeah, I think there's been a lot of silhouettes that have sort of the word I would use is, like, made their stake, like, created a stake in the fashion space that haven't made their way into the outdoor space yet. One of the biggest ones being this, like, curved leg shape and bottoms. And it's across denim and woven bottoms and dressy bottoms.
And so we know that this modern woman craves the silhouette and finds value in it. And it. It was crazy to us that we couldn't find it in a technical pant.
So that was a key inspiration behind the trail mix pant, which was our best selling style. That was really the pant, or I should say the style that inspired the inception of Scenic.
We had the most innovation and ideas around, like, what is the best hiking pant we can possibly make in terms of form and function. And then color theory, too, again, like, really pulling from our favorite artists as well as Runway. Like, not looking at outdoor landscapes.
Again, like, everyone has every season in the past.
Like, let's look in some weird places and pull some hues that you don't typically see in these technical garments and dip them and see how they turn out. And then I think trims are a huge aesthetic for Scenic as well. We.
We develop trims that allow for the garments to have dimension or color blocking on a lot of our pieces. We have these, like, hard TP trim endings that we change the color on compared to the body of the garment.
And I think giving attention to details like that really helps build our aesthetic overall. And it feels fresh because no other brand is leveraging trims in that way.
Colin True
00:31:43.245 - 00:32:17.985
So the industry, having been so established, you know, 40, 50 years now, and fit and performance, obviously being the primary driver, like, it's amazing we can get to this place where fashion and look can actually play into it in a meaningful way. But was there any moments where you're like, we got to make sure who is our fit models? Who are we basing it on? How does it work? How does it move?
Because knowing you're launching and you're launching against folks who have been doing it for so long and have really figured out like, no, my shit fits, we know how it is, it's going to last forever, all those things. Was that a scary part of the process or was that something you guys felt pretty confident about from the get go?
Tina Thompson
00:32:18.725 - 00:33:47.019
You know, scary is a funny word. Like, I don't think a lot of this experience.
And Maddie, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't want to speak for you, but like, I don't think Maddie and I lead our days with fear or being scared.
It's kind of, we're, we're, I'm the brain that's like, we know what we want to try and build and we're going to figure it out along the way and do it to our best ability. And we know sometimes we're not going to be perfect and sometimes we are and like we're open to that evolving process.
But for us, fit was an absolute non negotiable period. Hard stop. If a garment doesn't fit, it doesn't matter how cool it is, it doesn't matter how well it works, it's worthless.
So a key strategy for us was making sure our first hire on the scenic team was someone who came to the table with a strong fit point of view and a technical design background that would be able to guide us in that way. And we have an amazing fit model that we use consistently for every single fitting so that there is a scenic consistent fit.
And she herself is also a previous designer in a past life. So I don't know if you've ever worked with fit models, but the quality of a fit model's feedback can truly impact the garment.
If a fit model can tell you technically what isn't feeling right about the garment and can verbalize that to you and help you make those adjustments, it can save you rounds and rounds of fits. So we were very strategic. Not scared.
Madison Hilson
00:33:47.147 - 00:33:47.411
Yeah.
Colin True
00:33:47.443 - 00:33:52.107
When I say scared is more just thinking like you're, you're law, you're. You're only going to launch once, right?
Tina Thompson
00:33:52.171 - 00:33:52.499
Totally.
Colin True
00:33:52.547 - 00:34:09.231
So yeah. Right. And you are launching against others who, you know, a lot of brands have been around.
Some of the old ones been around since like the 60s, right. So it's like, it is a. You gotta make sure that it's gonna stack up right.
And that like, no, you don't want anyone to put it on like, yeah, this looks to your point, it looks great, but it doesn't really fit that well. Like, then it's like, oh, God, now what do we do?
Tina Thompson
00:34:09.263 - 00:34:14.623
So what's funny is a lot of those brands have some pretty gnarly fit issues.
Colin True
00:34:14.759 - 00:34:22.298
They do. They're going on the steam of this legacy and what, being popular back in the day.
Tina Thompson
00:34:22.486 - 00:34:37.694
Yeah. And it's just there's a different fit expectation for this new outdoors woman too. Like, that's really the difference.
It's not that they have like the wrong fit. It's just like this new chick can't find a fit that she wants because it's not really out there in these garments. So, yeah, it's a fun challenge.
Madison Hilson
00:34:38.194 - 00:35:05.565
It's been like for hike bottoms, for example. Like, I feel like the outdoor space tends to hop on fit trends a lot later than the fashion world.
So you're still seeing mid rise skinny straight pants.
And if you look into fashion, like Tina was saying, it's all curved leg shapes, looser fits, more versatility and adjustability in the garments are necessary. So just a little slower than where the consumer's at.
Colin True
00:35:06.105 - 00:35:41.661
Well, that's an interesting point because, like, then when you play though the fashion influencer, what is popular or, you know, what appeals to a consumer in a given time frame against. Well, you want to make sure things like the whole idea behind, you know, technical apparel is you want it to last like forever. Right.
You want to keep it out of landfills, all those sort of things. Things. How do you address that going forward? So now is the season going to become antiquated in a few years?
Like, I mean, is the fit going to change or the look going to change or because you want to make sure you look like you have that bit of a fashion edge to you while also making sure that it's going to still be functional and look good in a few years from now. Right. When maybe fashion trends have changed.
Madison Hilson
00:35:41.813 - 00:36:05.125
Yeah, I think it's like if you look at our pant again, for example, our version of the curved leg or the looser leg is not the super exaggerated or over the top fit. It's pretty commercial. So I think it has long legs for that reason.
And we design every piece so that it can be a core style and live for years and years.
Colin True
00:36:05.505 - 00:36:06.225
Got it.
Tina Thompson
00:36:06.345 - 00:36:46.515
And I think that's important to note about Scenic is like, because there are brands who are trying to tap into the outdoor industry that are leaning wicked hard in trend and they're putting out silhouettes and details that are much More trend forward than where scenic is on the scale. And I think we're wanting to be inspired by trend.
Not take it always literally, but like, how are we inspired by it in a way that creates this new shape that can last for years? Yeah, I think that's like a key part of our strategy is like not being too trend forward and not being too performative. Performative mindset forward.
It's like this perfect balance.
David
00:36:47.175 - 00:36:54.715
It's refreshing to see an outdoor line void of black, navy, hunter green and Logan berry.
Colin True
00:36:55.175 - 00:36:58.175
No hunter green. Do you have grayish?
David
00:36:58.255 - 00:37:00.075
Because that's a right.
Madison Hilson
00:37:01.495 - 00:37:02.103
Yeah.
Tina Thompson
00:37:02.199 - 00:37:11.003
We launched a green. It was a pretty. It was a risky hue. We have never sold at any, any of our past businesses and we called it Zen Garden.
David
00:37:11.099 - 00:37:13.451
And is that in your trail mix pant?
Tina Thompson
00:37:13.563 - 00:37:25.739
That's in the trail mix pant, yep. Yep. And it absolutely blew out. Girls were freaking out over it. Cause they felt like they've seen so many of the same green hue.
Like it's refreshing to see something different right now.
Madison Hilson
00:37:25.747 - 00:37:36.443
It's. What's funny though is we got that pant in and we started panicking. We're like, no one's gonna buy this. This is too weird. It's not the right shade.
And then it sold.
Tina Thompson
00:37:36.499 - 00:37:36.851
It became.
Colin True
00:37:36.883 - 00:37:37.717
It sold out.
Tina Thompson
00:37:37.851 - 00:37:38.225
Yeah.
Madison Hilson
00:37:38.265 - 00:37:41.561
It sold so fast. It was our. It's our top selling. One of our top selling colors and.
David
00:37:41.593 - 00:37:44.337
Garden'S great for it. I was thinking of a dark celery.
Colin True
00:37:44.481 - 00:38:07.725
But also speaking of selling products, selling out. Right. So as we kind of look at, you know that your strategy, you just launched in March. You're selling out of things. That's incredible.
And the congratulations. But as you look ahead, are you primarily focused on remaining direct to consumer? Do you want to expand in the wholesale? Is it a big box play?
Is it independent, specialty? All of the above. Like what. What are your plans for the brand and how to get it in the hands of the consumer?
Madison Hilson
00:38:08.255 - 00:38:56.649
Yeah. So we launched direct to consumer like you mentioned. And actually in two weeks we are launching with our first wholesaler in Canada, Sporting Life.
Yep. So they're going to be the only ones carrying our ski outside of our website.
So we're really excited to have a partnership with them and looking towards the future. We're going after wholesale in a big way. Starting next year, we hired a wholesale team which we are so stoked about.
They're the best and it'll be a mix. So we're going to be in backcountry title nine. We just won their title nine Pitch Fest. So that was a fun moment in San Francisco. Yeah.
So we'll be in their stores and online, and it'll be a mix, go forward of kind of the big box players as well as some independents and specialty.
Colin True
00:38:56.777 - 00:39:09.765
And then what's on tap? What's coming up next season? Like, what are you. And then after that, what, next three to five years? Where are you taking over the world?
Like, what's happening? Everyone wearing seated men's line eventually or always keep the men on the sideline. What do you guys think?
Madison Hilson
00:39:09.925 - 00:40:04.995
Yeah. So next season, starting spring 25, we're expanding our trail system. You'll see more amazing, fun colors that you know and love from Scenic.
And we're expanding with a couple new styles that are the epitome of versatility. They'll be climb compatible. You can hike in them, run in them, walk in them, all of the above.
So we're really excited about the new styles that we're bringing to the table.
And yeah, I think three to five years and beyond, we want Scenic to be a household name, and we want to keep creating a brand that women feel a deep connection to. And, yeah, we just want to continue to keep evolving with the modern outdoors women.
We feel like we're hitting on a key issue for her right now with versatility and balancing trend in fashion and want to keep answering her needs, needs. And Tina, do you want to talk about men's and women's?
Tina Thompson
00:40:07.095 - 00:40:20.735
Actually, I love, love, love, love developing menswear. It is so much fun. You guys are so, like, you're so easy. Like, it's so easy to hear that, like, lights your eyes up.
Colin True
00:40:20.815 - 00:40:24.915
Coming to Scenic men's line jeans and T shirts, that's all we need. We're good.
Tina Thompson
00:40:25.655 - 00:40:56.219
We get the request a lot, though, too. And we've gotten asked many times if men have bought the trail mix pant. And my husband actually is planning to try one on.
He's, like, obsessed with it, too. So men's is, like decades down the road.
I think there's so much work to do in the women's category first and really making sure that females feel supported and have a go to outdoor brand. So that's going to be our focus. No men's anytime soon, but someday, yes.
David
00:40:56.387 - 00:41:20.539
So you were very diplomatic in your route to that answer, but it seems like you're actually not that, let's say, on the fence about it. Do you want to rephrase that with a little bit more direct and pushing back at the insane question that Colin would even dare ask you. How dare You.
What are you talking about? Have you not been listening for the last half hour?
Colin True
00:41:20.587 - 00:41:29.815
Yes, I have but I just want to aware of. That's cool. I like the way you guys make products. You should try it on self serving question. Yeah, that's a good idea.
David
00:41:30.155 - 00:41:59.461
Staying in the lane. Okay. I want to just let end with a couple quick things is just so number one.
Like I said, I think an omnichannel is absolutely in the right direction and you've got something that's unique. You've got some listeners here that run outdoor specialty stores. And what's your, what's your pitch? Why should they?
And I'm going to say because retailers risk some of their open to buy on your brand.
Madison Hilson
00:41:59.573 - 00:42:16.985
Yeah, I think the main reason is that we're bringing something new and fresh to your customers and it's something they can't get other places.
So you're definitely going to have a, they're going to have a reason to purchase when we're in your stores and we're answering the needs of the modern outdoors woman, period.
Tina Thompson
00:42:18.035 - 00:42:40.035
Yeah, I think it's going to bring a new girl to you. A girl who maybe has heard about you but hasn't yet had a reason to come in, come through the doors and swipe her card.
So I think hopefully it'll start to acquire a new customer for you that has a long lifetime value and is crazy cool, crazy loyal.
Madison Hilson
00:42:40.075 - 00:42:55.005
One thing I'll add is we've had like a 35% repeat customer rate in our six months of life and on average our customers buy again after six weeks. So once she has the gear in her hands, she's going to be buying often.
Tina Thompson
00:42:55.345 - 00:42:56.845
She's a loyal girl.
Madison Hilson
00:42:57.425 - 00:42:57.969
Yeah.
Colin True
00:42:58.057 - 00:43:26.051
If you hired me as your sales manager, I think the thing I would tell retailers is like, you know, you don't have anything in your store that looks like this. It's going to pop on a four way.
You know, like I was just in some retail stores on the road last week and you just talk to the owners and it's the things what's different? What can you put up front? What is it going to attract people when they're walking in to say oh, what is that?
And to what we said earlier, there's just a lot of same, you know, a lot of same colors, a lot of same silhouettes, things like that. So any way you can kind of draw people to your product is an advantage and I think you guys are definitely doing that.
Madison Hilson
00:43:26.203 - 00:44:06.265
It was funny we were at outside festival this year. I don't Know if you guys attended in Denver and we had. It was amazing. You guys should definitely go next year. But we had a hot pink booth.
We put up like a hot pink background. We had a gingham tablecloth. We had friendship bracelets and our pink racks with all of our colorful product on them.
And people were walking by to get a snack at the food trucks because we had a food truck location at the cheapest festival booth. And people were stopping on their way to get food and be like, what is this? This is so fun. What's all the color?
So color is definitely the big attention grabber for us.
Colin True
00:44:06.925 - 00:44:38.285
Yeah, I think, you know, we talk. We've. David and I have talked a lot. You know, we've done some history podcasts and things like that as well.
I mean, the outdoor industry is founded on the back of innovation. Right. It started with like, needs being, you know, we want to be. Stay outside longer and here's ways that we can enable that.
And now for a while, we've had a lot of those needs fulfilled. You're still an innovation story, right? Because of what you just described. Right.
You know, you see the way, like, how are we attracting in a customer into our product or have. Or giving something that, you know, this particular consumer that doesn't have this option right now, it's a modern leveraging the tools.
David
00:44:38.705 - 00:45:48.545
Right? It's a modern. Sorry. It's a modern innovation story. It really is something that have been talking about since the 90s.
Like, this desire for functional, fashionable product has been an industry theme since then. Okay. However, few of the brands could get out of their way to actually meet that.
So it's left this opportunity in this hole that you guys are just picking up and seeing. And I just want to end on that, you know, a great, great discussion to the retailer. I think that's a great pitch.
And I'm going to say we've been looking at this space for a long time and this is very. It's. I'm not, I'm not, let me say I'm not stopped very often by apparel design.
And I think this is, what I see here is just something that's immediately fresh and like you said, it's also timeless. It's timely, it's timeless, and it is going to really stand out on the floor.
And I would say to retailers, take a look at this brand because you've got to look at the mix. Your merchandising is fantastic. Your naming conventions, all of it play into the story. And I think it just, you're Just firing on all cylinders.
It's really great.
Tina Thompson
00:45:48.665 - 00:45:49.585
Oh, thank you.
Madison Hilson
00:45:49.625 - 00:45:50.473
Thank you so much.
Tina Thompson
00:45:50.609 - 00:45:52.645
You guys want to know how we get our names?
Colin True
00:45:53.265 - 00:45:53.833
Yes.
David
00:45:53.929 - 00:45:55.145
Don't tell me. Chatgpt.
Madison Hilson
00:45:55.265 - 00:45:57.005
No, no, never.
David
00:45:58.145 - 00:45:59.485
You say that now.
Tina Thompson
00:46:01.265 - 00:46:02.965
Coffee table books.
David
00:46:03.715 - 00:46:04.539
Fabulous.
Tina Thompson
00:46:04.667 - 00:46:20.651
So, like, we have all these books in our homes that, like, we never even open up and they have, like thousands of words in them and we will literally just like flip to a page and, like, and then just spit out words to each other. And it's a pretty effective process.
David
00:46:20.843 - 00:46:25.251
Yeah, well, they tell the story really well. They go with the product. They're great.
Colin True
00:46:25.363 - 00:46:47.833
Thank you. We can wrap things up there, I think.
And now if, Tina, if you could release my friend from your mental spell that you just put over him to get that, please. And Maddie too, whatever you're doing over there. No, seriously, I echo what Dave said. It's great.
And thank you both very much for coming on to tell us more about it and excited to see your success going forward.
Madison Hilson
00:46:48.009 - 00:46:49.817
Thank you so much for having us.
Tina Thompson
00:46:49.961 - 00:46:55.165
Yeah, thanks for the awesome questions. We love a good rock fight. So. Yeah, thank you.
Colin True
00:46:57.385 - 00:46:58.405
Thank you both.
David
00:46:59.265 - 00:47:01.195
Yeah, thanks, everybody. Bye. Bye.
Tina Thompson
00:47:01.315 - 00:47:02.015
Bye.
Colin True
00:47:03.195 - 00:47:32.205
All right, that's the show for today. What did you think of what Tina and Maddie had to say? Send your feedback to myrockflightmail.com the Rock Fight is a production of Rock Flight Loc.
Today's episode was produced by David Karstad with art direction by Sarah the war Wagon gensert. I'm Colin True. Thanks for listening. And he's here, here again. Once again he's here.
It's Christa makes and he's gonna sing for you right now the rock fight fight song. We'll see you next time, rock fighters.
Chris DeMakes
00:47:32.285 - 00:48:28.365
Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Welcome to the rock fight where we speak our truth, slay sacred cows and sometimes agree to disagree.
We talk about human powered out activities and pic bites about topics that we find interesting like pop culture music, the latest movie reviews, ideas that aim for the head. This is where we speak our truth. This is where we speak our truth. Rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight. Welcome to the rock fight. Rock fight. Rock fight.
Welcome to the rock flight Rock light Rock fight Rock light Rock light rock side welcome to the rock side Rock fight. Rat bite.
Tina Thompson
00:48:30.265 - 00:48:32.705
Rock fight.